Chapter Discussion One Piece - Chapter 977 : "The Party Won't Start Now"
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It is about context. I will quote myself here:
To summarize:
-The Numbers are addressed as things. Kawamatsu is surprised when he witness such creature and the kids ask themselves "what are those", not "who are those". Apoo may be ugly, but he ins't a thing.
-They're addressed as "the Numbers from Onigashima", the kids fear they will be eaten by them and they are hinted at being aggressive drunkards. This plus their size, horns, fangs and kanabos basically scream "oni" all over the place. Again, Apoo is far from fitting this idiosyncrasy.
-The characters around the table in last chapter aren't depicted to be the same as the giant lizardman. This creature is actually hurting a guy with its claws and another individual is stating that he didn't want to drink with them. The small shadows don't seem to have the horns of the Numbers either.
-And, as I said, the way I understand the scene we were meant to assume that Apoo is part of them only to enhance their introduction as gigantic shadows.
Everything point to the Numbers not being an artificial group within Kaido's hierarchy like the Tobi Roppo but a bunch of actual oni-like creatures, hence why they share every trait possible from such ogres and they, as a whole, don't stand alcohol well (unless Kaido wanted a division of horned drunkards with kanabos, which feels a bit weird).
Not only that, but Apoo himself just doesn't fit, he's too different from what we've been told and shown about these people. A small, non-horned paramecia user within a group of giants (be them natural or zoan-based, I don't care) that are feared as human-eaters and have drinking problems? It's just too much of a stretch. Odds are Apoo just happened to arrive to Wano at the same time/along with them.
To summarize:
-The Numbers are addressed as things. Kawamatsu is surprised when he witness such creature and the kids ask themselves "what are those", not "who are those". Apoo may be ugly, but he ins't a thing.
-They're addressed as "the Numbers from Onigashima", the kids fear they will be eaten by them and they are hinted at being aggressive drunkards. This plus their size, horns, fangs and kanabos basically scream "oni" all over the place. Again, Apoo is far from fitting this idiosyncrasy.
-The characters around the table in last chapter aren't depicted to be the same as the giant lizardman. This creature is actually hurting a guy with its claws and another individual is stating that he didn't want to drink with them. The small shadows don't seem to have the horns of the Numbers either.
-And, as I said, the way I understand the scene we were meant to assume that Apoo is part of them only to enhance their introduction as gigantic shadows.
Everything point to the Numbers not being an artificial group within Kaido's hierarchy like the Tobi Roppo but a bunch of actual oni-like creatures, hence why they share every trait possible from such ogres and they, as a whole, don't stand alcohol well (unless Kaido wanted a division of horned drunkards with kanabos, which feels a bit weird).
Not only that, but Apoo himself just doesn't fit, he's too different from what we've been told and shown about these people. A small, non-horned paramecia user within a group of giants (be them natural or zoan-based, I don't care) that are feared as human-eaters and have drinking problems? It's just too much of a stretch. Odds are Apoo just happened to arrive to Wano at the same time/along with them.
Luffy need to learn this now more than ever
At this point I'm convinced people forget the type of person Luffy is.
2 years ago Luffy and a rag tag team of prisoners invaded MF. He wasnt scared of facing the entirety of the MF army. He wasnt scared to stand up to the 3 admirals, and he wasnt intimidated at all by WB and spoke to him like they were equals. And that was when he was a fodder.
Why do you still expect Luffy to care about fighting 2 Yonko? A guy who stared death in the eye many times should not be scared lol. Back in PH Luffy spoke about taking down the 3 Yonko like it was nothing, and you still want him and the others to shit themselves at the thought of facing two? Even Law isnt worried and he's the smart one.
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Well personally I think it shows a lack of him learning from Aces death. At marineford the objective wasn't to beat up the admirals but to rescue his brother. I am currently getting a major sense of danger to which the protagonist is not responding implying that he may have to suffer from his rashness. Pedro died helping luffy rescue sanji. I can't imagine there not being more casualties when fighting two yonko teamed up head on.
Post marineford Jinbe highlights that nakama are what luffy lives for/his main reason for going on. This thoughtless head on rush is putting them in grave danger. I mean it's okay for zoro luffy jinbe and sanji to join the frontlines in a raid but ussopp and some others are not close up fighters and will not survive a clash with anyone on Perosperos level for example. It is extreme danger they are entering and as Oda through Kinemon suggested in the last chapter that luck can get used up. So far luffy got by on a lot of luck I wonder how far this can go before it stops. I don't want main characters to die but if no one does then sentiments such as zoros from punk hazard become invalidated as the new world is just as forgiving as paradise.
Finally if wano truly is going to make marineford look cute then it will probably kill someone loved by the readers. Yes one of the yonko and part of their crew could die but someone on the strawhats side is likely to be ended at this point. It is likely to be someone luffy cares about to make it personal and make him personally invested in taking kaido down. In the first chapter lucky roo says if you are going to point a weapon at someone you have to be willing to risk your life the problem is luffy is very trigger happy with risking his own life but doesn't seem to realise that a lot of time ge offers his crew as collateral.
Post marineford Jinbe highlights that nakama are what luffy lives for/his main reason for going on. This thoughtless head on rush is putting them in grave danger. I mean it's okay for zoro luffy jinbe and sanji to join the frontlines in a raid but ussopp and some others are not close up fighters and will not survive a clash with anyone on Perosperos level for example. It is extreme danger they are entering and as Oda through Kinemon suggested in the last chapter that luck can get used up. So far luffy got by on a lot of luck I wonder how far this can go before it stops. I don't want main characters to die but if no one does then sentiments such as zoros from punk hazard become invalidated as the new world is just as forgiving as paradise.
Finally if wano truly is going to make marineford look cute then it will probably kill someone loved by the readers. Yes one of the yonko and part of their crew could die but someone on the strawhats side is likely to be ended at this point. It is likely to be someone luffy cares about to make it personal and make him personally invested in taking kaido down. In the first chapter lucky roo says if you are going to point a weapon at someone you have to be willing to risk your life the problem is luffy is very trigger happy with risking his own life but doesn't seem to realise that a lot of time ge offers his crew as collateral.
All this:
- Apoo being a number or not
- Kaido's son being strong or not or the Ace
- Big Mom's crew being present at the party
- Page One being part of the Tobi Roppo group (he is but we can wait lol)
Really needs to just wait another chapter or two. Its clear we will be getting some scenes from Kaido's side next chapter. The scene shifted focus this chapter to them, it only makes sense to continue that.
- Apoo being a number or not
- Kaido's son being strong or not or the Ace
- Big Mom's crew being present at the party
- Page One being part of the Tobi Roppo group (he is but we can wait lol)
Really needs to just wait another chapter or two. Its clear we will be getting some scenes from Kaido's side next chapter. The scene shifted focus this chapter to them, it only makes sense to continue that.
this is just impression you guys got of numbers that they are all supposed to be Huge Giantly creatures... Apoo as mentioned was already part of Beast pirates before making alliance with Kid, so what is he then ? just a headliner who coincidentally arrived with numbers ? he shouldnt be, if Drake can become TobiRoppo then why not Apoo, I certainly think Apoo was of stronger Supernovas....but anyways it is said in official translation he was holding barrel in his hand not human and also as I said they were talking as equals on one table..... what if numbers are special ability users not just giant creatures, Apoo certainly has special ability unlike zoans
I know, the wake up call statement was referring to in general.
Pedro killed himself, just like Ace did the moment he turned back instead of ran.
Casualties will happen, whether Luffy dives head first into the danger or not. Hence why the most important thing to do is to back up each other. Teamwork. Have each other's backs lol. Which is what they displayed in this chapter when they destroyed the defensive outpost in union .
The two biggest lessons Luffy learned from Sabaody to MF wasnt to stop being reckless and stop diving headfirst into the battle. The Worst Generation is actually praised as dangerous specifically because of those traits.
He burdened himself with being the one to protect everyone he love on his own. He learned that its ok to have people support him. And he also learned that no matter how strong you become, you cant save everyone. Even the ones you love.
The NW has not been forgiving, everybody he faced starting with Doflamingo brought him close to death lol
Pedro killed himself, just like Ace did the moment he turned back instead of ran.
Casualties will happen, whether Luffy dives head first into the danger or not. Hence why the most important thing to do is to back up each other. Teamwork. Have each other's backs lol. Which is what they displayed in this chapter when they destroyed the defensive outpost in union .
The two biggest lessons Luffy learned from Sabaody to MF wasnt to stop being reckless and stop diving headfirst into the battle. The Worst Generation is actually praised as dangerous specifically because of those traits.
He burdened himself with being the one to protect everyone he love on his own. He learned that its ok to have people support him. And he also learned that no matter how strong you become, you cant save everyone. Even the ones you love.
The NW has not been forgiving, everybody he faced starting with Doflamingo brought him close to death lol
But you are missing the whole picture here by focusing on "ifs" and small, isolated details.
When we're introduced to the Numbers we have six clearly visible individuals. Four of them are giants, another is Apoo and the last is one of Apoo's subordinates. Let's ignore the latter because, well, he's simply a subordinate. So that makes five people. Out of these:
-Apoo is the only one to be small.
-Apoo is the only one who doesn't look like he'd eat a kid.
-Apoo is the only one who wouldn't be labelled as a thing or referred as a what.
-Apoo is the only one without horns.
Also, the only monster clearly visible in last chapter also sums up all these traits: it is big, horned, fanged and also a problematic drunk (which Queen was worried about). And he's attacking one of the small guys.
If we not only count the visible individuals but the shadows we have that Apoo is the only small guy out of arguably seven giants. On top of that we see three giant kanabos (the weapon of choice of an oni), those Numbers with their mouth open are all fanged (like an oni) and the Numbers as a whole are referred as drunkards (like an oni). On top of that, the kids stated them to be man-eating creatures (like an oni) from Oni Island.
I don't think this is just a matter of our impression. The Numbers have a huge amount of common traits, which doesn't happen with any other group within the Beast Pirates. They don't belong to a thing, they are a thing. You may think they are users of especial abilities, but it would be really coincidental that such abilities turn all of them but Apoo into arguable onis, not only in terms of their size but their weapons and behaviour.
That's the point here, that they aren't just "giants who may be able to srink because they ate a fruit". It is the whole package, and Apoo is completely disconnected from that idiosyncrasy.
When we're introduced to the Numbers we have six clearly visible individuals. Four of them are giants, another is Apoo and the last is one of Apoo's subordinates. Let's ignore the latter because, well, he's simply a subordinate. So that makes five people. Out of these:
-Apoo is the only one to be small.
-Apoo is the only one who doesn't look like he'd eat a kid.
-Apoo is the only one who wouldn't be labelled as a thing or referred as a what.
-Apoo is the only one without horns.
Also, the only monster clearly visible in last chapter also sums up all these traits: it is big, horned, fanged and also a problematic drunk (which Queen was worried about). And he's attacking one of the small guys.
If we not only count the visible individuals but the shadows we have that Apoo is the only small guy out of arguably seven giants. On top of that we see three giant kanabos (the weapon of choice of an oni), those Numbers with their mouth open are all fanged (like an oni) and the Numbers as a whole are referred as drunkards (like an oni). On top of that, the kids stated them to be man-eating creatures (like an oni) from Oni Island.
I don't think this is just a matter of our impression. The Numbers have a huge amount of common traits, which doesn't happen with any other group within the Beast Pirates. They don't belong to a thing, they are a thing. You may think they are users of especial abilities, but it would be really coincidental that such abilities turn all of them but Apoo into arguable onis, not only in terms of their size but their weapons and behaviour.
That's the point here, that they aren't just "giants who may be able to srink because they ate a fruit". It is the whole package, and Apoo is completely disconnected from that idiosyncrasy.
He brought luffy close death but in the conflict there was basically no collateral from luffy's side. No lasting damage occurred. Yes luffy was injured but he recovered within days. The problem is the new world hasn't posed a threat to the strawhats . Nothing has happened. I mean no one has even got a scar since post time skip. We constantly get told there is a danger but nothing ever happens. Examples smiley is dangerous but all the marines survive, never have I really thought anyone is in danger and that is when big mom and kaido stop being a threat. It's not like they can cause any lasting damage. The strawhats have plot immunity and they just keep getting stronger luffy lost got put in prison and gained a load of allies he basically cant lose and that's the problem. Even when Usopp lost against Trebol he won. Without the threat of actually being able to do harm in non time skip setting then the yonko become harmless regardless of how hyped they become.
If it is giant creatures you are talking about then ancient zoans in full DF form are mostly giants, as seen P1 was huge and much larger than buildings, new XDrake also is MUCH larger than he was in Sabaody...so if we go by that then that means all TobiRoppo would be Ancient Huge Zoans.
..BUT as shown there is a Samurai among them, so what does that mean ? do we automatically consider him Ancient Zoan and just ignore that he can be a normal human samurai ?...no we cant do that and we cant ignore the possibility of there being other than Ancient Zoans in TobiRoppo....the same way just because some Numbers were giant looking creatures (likely because of DFs) it shouldnt just automatically remove possibility of there being other races among them...and again he was holding barrel not human
btw anything unfamiliar to characters is called creature in OP Kaido, Kawamatsu, Fishmen,Mink and LongArms also are considered different race ....
..BUT as shown there is a Samurai among them, so what does that mean ? do we automatically consider him Ancient Zoan and just ignore that he can be a normal human samurai ?...no we cant do that and we cant ignore the possibility of there being other than Ancient Zoans in TobiRoppo....the same way just because some Numbers were giant looking creatures (likely because of DFs) it shouldnt just automatically remove possibility of there being other races among them...and again he was holding barrel not human
btw anything unfamiliar to characters is called creature in OP Kaido, Kawamatsu, Fishmen,Mink and LongArms also are considered different race ....
The only way Oda can possibly fulfill your vision is to slowly cripple every member of the SHs.
The NW is dangerous, but most of the people that reside there dont have scars lol. You need Haki to survive or be apart of a strong crew. Top members of the SHs have haki. And the weaker members are part of a strong crew.
The reason why the SHs havent had any punishing long lasting injuries so far is because they specifically trained to survive this environment before sailing into it lol
The NW is dangerous, but most of the people that reside there dont have scars lol. You need Haki to survive or be apart of a strong crew. Top members of the SHs have haki. And the weaker members are part of a strong crew.
The reason why the SHs havent had any punishing long lasting injuries so far is because they specifically trained to survive this environment before sailing into it lol
You keep making the same mistake I'm pointing out to you. This isn't about how they are all giants but how they're all portrayed to resemble onis in basically everything. Again, you are missing the whole picture by focusing on the details.
In Sabaody Drake's animal form is around the size of a Pacifista (around seven meters). I don't see how he's that MUCH larger than that in Wano. Comparing Sanji to Kuma and then to Drake they all seem to keep similar sizes. Page One of course was huge in animal form, Spinosaurus was the largest theropod ever known. And yet, they all significantly srink when in hybrid form, yet those humanoid giants are supposed to become like that because of their fruits? Even though one of them has such human traits that an hybrid form is very unlikely?
Anyways, that's not the point. You're trying to compare my take on the Numbers with a Tobi Roppo counter-argument but for it to work they shouldn't just be all ancient huge zoans but share the traits of a common reference (the oni in the Numbers case). So either the Numbers are an oni-mimicking squadron (to the point of all of them having drinking problems, not only just their attire, weapons, size...) or they're an oni-like race.
By the way, I don't see where the lizardman is holding anything, be it a barrell or whatever. I didn't even mention he was holding a human, only attacking him because there are what seems to be blood drops between a guy and the right claw of the creature).
In Sabaody Drake's animal form is around the size of a Pacifista (around seven meters). I don't see how he's that MUCH larger than that in Wano. Comparing Sanji to Kuma and then to Drake they all seem to keep similar sizes. Page One of course was huge in animal form, Spinosaurus was the largest theropod ever known. And yet, they all significantly srink when in hybrid form, yet those humanoid giants are supposed to become like that because of their fruits? Even though one of them has such human traits that an hybrid form is very unlikely?
Anyways, that's not the point. You're trying to compare my take on the Numbers with a Tobi Roppo counter-argument but for it to work they shouldn't just be all ancient huge zoans but share the traits of a common reference (the oni in the Numbers case). So either the Numbers are an oni-mimicking squadron (to the point of all of them having drinking problems, not only just their attire, weapons, size...) or they're an oni-like race.
By the way, I don't see where the lizardman is holding anything, be it a barrell or whatever. I didn't even mention he was holding a human, only attacking him because there are what seems to be blood drops between a guy and the right claw of the creature).
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