Questions & Mysteries Was Rayleigh "100 times" stronger than Luffy (need Japanese speakers)?

[sanjikun]

I've been thinking about how strong pre-TS Luffy was, and no matter what, the math doesn't work out. Old Rayleigh could have been 20, 30 maybe even 40 times stronger. But not 100.

Luffy beat Crocodile, a Shichibukai, and Enel, a dude with a possible 500 million bounty that was almost as much as Prime Don Chinjao or Law, or Ace, and then got G2/G3. Rob Lucci was easily Vice Admiral level and on the higher end of it, as even Onigumo said "there's nothing they can do" if Lucci is on the job. Even a Pacifista cost hundreds of million of berry to build and we know all out Luffy with his strong endurance would have eventually won 1 v. 1 (probably high/extreme diff).

Now, my question is, is this an expression?

-> Kaido is hundred-beast Kaido, but there's obviously more than that.

-> Kinemon says Denjiro, Ashura Doji, Kawamatsu are worth a hundred men. Obviously we know that's not true.

I checked wiktionary and "100" seems to be an expression for "a lot, many".

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/百#Japanese

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

Don't know whether it's an expression, here's the raw though, 100 is written in its number form not the kanji form from what I see, but I am no expert and just basing this on the visual form of the kanji you linked, I could be wrong

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Stephen also translated it like hundred times tougher

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Shackey: Oh, don't you worry about my man.
He's a good hundred times tougher
than any of you.

As opposed to the Ray scene, from what I can tell by looking at it, the Kaido scene has that kanji that you are talking about

Spoiler

And that's probably why it is translated as 'King of the Beasts' and not hundred beast

Spoiler

 

[sanjikun]

Don't know whether it's an expression, here's the raw though, 100 is written in its number form not the kanji form from what I see, but I am no expert and just basing this on the visual form of the kanji you linked, I could be wrong

Spoiler

Stephen also translated it like hundred times tougher

Spoiler

As opposed to the Ray scene, from what I can tell by looking at it, the Kaido scene has that kanji that you are talking about

Spoiler

And that's probably why it is translated as 'King of the Beasts' and not hundred beast

Spoiler

Yeah I noticed that too, but Kinemon actually says Denjiro and Ashura Doji are worth 100 men with the number.

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

Yeah I noticed that too, but Kinemon actually says Denjiro and Ashura Doji are worth 100 men with the number.

Maybe @PuckTheGreat or @EtenBoby know more about it.

 

[Deleted member 83]

Yeah I noticed that too, but Kinemon actually says Denjiro and Ashura Doji are worth 100 men with the number.

百人力 is an description, meaning tremendous power

Kaido’s title 百獣 literally means hundred beasts, but it’s found in the expression 百獣の王, king of (all) beasts (in Japan it means lion and China tiger) and I think that why it’s translated as so

 

[sanjikun]

百人力 is an description, meaning tremendous power

Kaido’s title 百獣 literally means hundred beasts, but it’s found in the expression 百獣の王, king of (all) beasts (in Japan it means lion and China tiger) and I think that why it’s translated as so

Didn't know that! Awesome.

What about 100 (not in Kanji) for strength or men? Does it make sense as an expression?

 

[Deleted member 83]

Didn't know that! Awesome.

What about 100 (not in Kanji) for strength or men? Does it make sense as an expression?

Kin’emon did use the numbers not the kanji

 

[PuckTheGreat]

Maybe @PuckTheGreat or @EtenBoby know more about it.

(百人力) If you take it literally it means the aforementioned 3 are worth 100 men but it can also translate to "the aforementioned three will be immense additions to the alliance side". On Zou Luffy used a similar phrase 千人力 when he was talking about Sanji which in that context could translate to "he is worth a 1000 men" or could also translate to "he'd be an immense addition to the alliance side". In the end both phrases are referring to how important those figures are to the alliance. We can only speculate whether the numbers Oda used in those scenario are simply there just to emphasize how significant Ashuradouji/denjiro/kawamaru/Sanji are or whether it has a deeper meaning highlighting Sanji potentially being even more important than Ashuradouji/denjiro/kawamatsu.

Sorry haven't really gone through the debates yet so not sure what exactly is being argued but just that's how I understand that phrase.

 

[trav]

its a hyperbole or figure of speech I suppose.
just like the term "you are a 100 years too early to...".

as @PuckTheGreat wrote, its not necessarily meant to be taken literally.

I checked wiktionary and "100" seems to be an expression for "a lot, many".

that is most likely it.
Luffy at Sabaody was already at least a high mid tier (more like mid high tier... but even so). not really reasonable that Rayleigh actually was a hundred times stronger than that.

 

[Garps tekkai]

In my opinion it does add up tho, even if it's not an expression.
It obviously does not represent only a single physical stat or in general a single category, but his overall power. It's not like the difference between "having advCoAlvl2" and "no CoA at all" is somewhat scaleable for us like in fixed numbers such as doriki or in percentages, but in the sum of all their attributes, Rayleigh can happen to be incomparably more powerful than Luffy or just like Shakky said, a solid 100times more powerful.
Stat wise it might have only been x times , but if you take all factors together they create such a vaste difference.

It's like when a Doriki user is 2times more stronger physically than another guy, things like his individual Rokushiki techs become twice as potent, but if you add all of his stronger techs together, with the effect base strength has on things like base speed, durability and AP in general, he gets exponentially more powerful overall. He becomes more difficult to hit, more difficult to react to, more difficult to bring down etc.
With haki and especially adv haki it gets imo even more absurd. Just imagine full body hardened Vergo vs no haki Vergo. No haki Vergo would be a sack full of broken bones within minutes. And that's just CoA hardening. Now double his physical stats aswell.. It gets crazy.

Again imo those numbers aren't impossible. Pre ts Lucci was already like 400times (only->) physically stronger than an average marine soldier. Overall, with all his well trained skills included, this would probably make him xxxx amounts more powerful overall.

It's the sum of refined skills, better stats in all categories, haki+advanced haki and experience. That's a freakin lot afterall. Compare pre ts to post ts Luffy for example. W/o Boundman they are already totally incomparable. Boundman makes this even more of a mess.

No clue about japanese, so I took that route

 

[Finalbeta]

Hmm it seems so

That would make Old Rayleigh's doriki in the high hundreds of thousands range which is very legit imo

 

[Sadistic Senpai]

Just an expression... not supposed to be taken literal

 

[ShishioIsBack]

Idk but if its a question of whether Rayleigh can beat 100 Luffys in Sabaody, I think it is same as asking if Garp can beat 50 Pacifistas.

I think there is an obvious answer to both questions.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

It could be true though. Rayleigh was fighting toe to toe with Admiral Kizaru so I can expect that Rayleigh can fight against 100 Luffy at the same time lol.

 

[sanjikun]

It could be true though. Rayleigh was fighting toe to toe with Admiral Kizaru so I can expect that Rayleigh can fight against 100 Luffy at the same time lol.

I think you're underestimating Luffy. He tanked an attack from Sengoku in his Zooan form, and he one shot a Giant officer (dk if he was a Rear Admiral or Vice Admiral).

I certainly don't expect Rayleigh to have more physical strength than that, so I don't know if Luffy even needs Fuusen. And this is 100 of them. LOL.

 

[ShishioIsBack]

I think you're underestimating Luffy. He tanked an attack from Sengoku in his Zooan form, and he one shot a Giant officer (dk if he was a Rear Admiral or Vice Admiral).

Yet it took the entire straw hat crew to defeat One Piece pacisita, same pacifista that post TS g2 Luffy can one shot lmao

 

[sanjikun]

Yet it took the entire straw hat crew to defeat One Piece pacisita, same pacifista that post TS g2 Luffy can one shot lmao

The Pacifista is defence heavy in terms of hardness though. (Which is where lack of Haki played a role) Not necessarily a better fighter than Luffy. We all know if Luffy went Lucci-all-out or Katakuri-all-out he can pull enough from his tank to beat a Pacifista. He was the one that KOed him after all.

 

[ShishioIsBack]

The Pacifista is defence heavy in terms of hardness though. (Which is where lack of Haki played a role) Not necessarily a better fighter than Luffy. We all know if Luffy went Lucci-all-out or Katakuri-all-out he can pull enough from his tank to beat a Pacifista. He was the one that KOed him after all.

So the issue here is that Rayleigh is infinitely faster, has infinitely more skill and can bust Luffy's brain with penetration Haki shot.

Not sure if him K.Oing one was really indicative of anything, I am pretty sure Ashura did just as much if not more damage than G3. He landed the finishing blows as that is the major perk of being the main character.

I think the way Kizaru was dealing with supernovas who I believe were all stronger than Luffy, Luffy was bottom tier supernova in Sabaody, as a matter of fact I think he was below even Zoro if he was fresh.

Something like this Law > Kid > Drake > Urouge > Hawkins > Apoo > Zoro without Injuries > Luffy > Bonney > Capone and Kizaru was terrorizing some of the strongest of supernovas with just his lasers.


Rayleigh being able to defeat 100 Luffy's should be a no brainer. Not only will Luffy not be able to tag Luffy, it would take Rayleigh just a split second to take Luffy's head off and kill him and endurance won't even be a factor.

 

[Shiroyru]

So the issue here is that Rayleigh is infinitely faster, has infinitely more skill and can bust Luffy's brain with penetration Haki shot.

Not sure if him K.Oing one was really indicative of anything, I am pretty sure Ashura did just as much if not more damage than G3. He landed the finishing blows as that is the major perk of being the main character.

I think the way Kizaru was dealing with supernovas who I believe were all stronger than Luffy, Luffy was bottom tier supernova in Sabaody, as a matter of fact I think he was below even Zoro if he was fresh.

Something like this Law > Kid > Drake > Urouge > Hawkins > Apoo > Zoro without Injuries > Luffy > Bonney > Capone and Kizaru was terrorizing some of the strongest of supernovas with just his lasers.


Rayleigh being able to defeat 100 Luffy's should be a no brainer. Not only will Luffy not be able to tag Luffy, it would take Rayleigh just a split second to take Luffy's head off and kill him and endurance won't even be a factor.

Lol what did those fodders do to be placed above Luffy?

 

[ShishioIsBack]

Lol what did those fodders do to be placed above Luffy?

X Drake and Urouge? Individually took pacifists solos and had physical strength to send them flying, with X Drake not even using his hybrid form.

Apoo? Split Kizarus logia body in half

Law? Luffy has no answer to his room

Kidd? Could replicate G3 level AP/DC without drawbacks (Luffy was a little kid after that panel)

Hawkins? Was able to take 3 attacks from Kizaru.

Zoro? Not an appropriate thread for this but Zoros thriller bark feats dwarfed Luffys besides night mare Luffy and Sabaody Zoro is even more used to Shushui.