Spoiler General Kingdom Spoiler

[Shanks]

This is priceless..... missed something so epic which was already forecasted by Hara. Lol

From which chapter is it and that SHK mentioning Ganmon !?

So basically mainly SHK and somehow Ousen and Kanki are trying snatch Riboku's home or strongest fort which gave him so much confidence. Though only difference is Kanki's way of doing thing is completely out of Riboku’s calculations while damaging Qin as well by sacrificing huge amounts of soldiers.

 

[SakazOuki]

This is priceless..... missed something so epic which was already forecasted by Hara. Lol

From which chapter is it and that SHK mentioning Ganmon !?

So basically mainly SHK and somehow Ousen and Kanki are trying snatch Riboku's home or strongest fort which gave him so much confidence. Though only difference is Kanki's way of doing thing is completely out of Riboku’s calculations while damaging Qin as well by sacrificing huge amounts of soldiers.

Read 703 & 704
This is the battle where we will see what Riboku is truly made of.

 

[MarineHQ]

Finally caught up and damn I'm fucking pumped. Kanki acts like he has his own Houken waiting somewhere, nothing can worry that man.

 

[Rumble]

I don’t appreciate you accusing me of leaving out context to hype Kou En lol, I was giving Seth a brief summary of what happens historically. Which is what I did.

Spoiler

It is you who then left out the context of Kou En’s defeat, mainly that Kou En was not defeated solely by Ousen but also heavily by Moubu who at this point in the manga will be virtually unstoppable, especially given everything else going on at that time which I won’t discuss here.

What’s more likely in Kingdom is that Kou En will ultimately face a 600K army lead by all 6 Qin GGs, but at bare minimum he will be forced to go up against Ousen and Moubu which at EOS will be a pretty unstoppable duo.

Be as unappreciative as you like, you did in fact leave out a ton of context, and I suspect intentionally so because you in particular have been doing the most in this subforum to hype up Kou En. Calling it a summary is a generosity to yourself. I think you do a real disservice to ignorant posters when you give your battledome interpretations of history. Someone could read what you wrote and be totally turned off from carrying on with the series, so you might want to consider knocking it off.

Spoiler

I didn't speak to the full context of Kou En's defeat because the contention was around the first invasion, and it was already a longish post because I had to address the context you left out - like, for real, what possible reason could you have to omit the difference in troops numbers? The rebellions, I can sorta get, but leaving out something as obvious as a 300K discrepancy just speaks to bias.

Still, where most would (and still do) frame Kou En's defeat as the result of Ou Sen's brilliance and machinations and nothing else, I took a more charitable view on Kou En being not too dissimilar from Shin's because there were various factors at play that were out of his hands - namely the fact Chu couldn't resource a standing army of that size indefinitely, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

Your problem is that you have a hard time separating the historical figures from their manga counterparts. For one, 6GG weren't a thing but you used it to frame the magnitude of the real Kou En's victory over the real Shin and Mou Ten anyway, and secondly, you know damn well the real Mou Bu was nothing like his counterpart in the manga.

 

[Shanks]

Read 703 & 704
This is the battle where we will see what Riboku is truly made of.

Hope we could see some heated battle coz central battlefield (Shukai plains) wasn't so amazing as Ousen made it look totally one sided after he broke through hybrid strategy and later applied Red Crane formation.

Expectations were too high in that battle coz both were high level strategical generals.

 

[Krusher1357]

@Shanks this is why Riboku will tremble in fear

Spoiler

Potentially connected with this

Spoiler

Riboku about to experience a world of pain. If Ousen does march on Kantan he’ll be far too north to intercept him.

Spoiler

Holy shit, kanki about the mentally fuck Riboku.

 

[Rumble]

@Seth @Jailer @Warchief Sanji D Goat @God Buggy @SakazOuki @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @Monet @kom5 @Bullet @Xlaw @Rumble

Any guess what Kanki could do which can make Riboku tremble in fear while according to Kanki, The battle has only just begun...

He's saying that after getting almost 80% of Qin army getting annihilated while he's doing only smiling. Lol

I haven't got a clue, but I also don't buy it will be anything as shocking as Hara wants us to believe.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

because you in particular have been doing the most in this subforum to hype up Kou En.

When??? Where??? I’ve said multiple times over the course of my Kingdom postings that I’m more hyped to see Shibashou and Hakuki than I am for Kou En. I even said that I suspect Kou En could be a Kochou-esque figure and disappoint (in terms of showing and not necessarily strength level). When have I gone out of my way to hype Kou En to oblivion exactly??

I think you do a real disservice to ignorant posters when you give your battledome interpretations of history.

Spoiler

It is a historical fact that historically Kou En almost eradicated Shin and Mouten at a point in time where Hara will most likely write them as being members of the 6GG of Qin. Yes he had help from Shouheikun locking them into Chu, and yes he kept his troop numbers sectet from them, but what I said was a straight up fact with no embellishment.

like, for real, what possible reason could you have to omit the difference in troops numbers?

Because Hara uses a General’s ability to amass and hide large amounts of troops as hype for that General. Look at Riboku this very arc, he amassed and his an army of 300K to annihilate Kanki. Hara doesn’t say “oh Riboku annihilated Kanki but he had 300K troops hidden so it doesn’t count,” Hara explicitly hyped Riboku’s ability to amass and hide such an enormous army while baiting Qin deeper and deeper into unknown territory, as explicit hype for Riboku’s ability as a general.

You accuse me of having a “battle dome interpretation of history”, meanwhile I am operating under Hara’s exact logic while it is you trying to make excuses for why

Spoiler

Kou En annihilating Great Generals Shin and Mouten doesn’t count because “muh context! Muh numbers!” Hara doesn’t operate under such petty excuses. Get over yourself. Kou En amassing and hiding a gigantic army of 500K hypes Kou En’s abilities as a commander just as Riboku doing the same hypes Riboku (in Hara’s mind).

For one, 6GG weren't a thing but you used it to frame the magnitude of the real Kou En's victory over the real Shin and Mou Ten anyway

Because Hara will most likely write Shin and Mouten as being 6GGs at the time they face Kou En. If you’re mad about that, take it up with Hara and how he chose to structure his manga.

and secondly, you know damn well the real Mou Bu was nothing like his counterpart in the manga.

It doesn’t matter. Very few of these manga characters were “like” their historical counterparts. Why the fuck would that matter when discussing the manga?

Spoiler

Kou En’s defeat will be a combination of at least two factors:

1. Ousen will use his strategic ability to trick the Chu into misinterpreting Qin’s movements

2. By the time Ousen launches his grand attack, Kou En/Shouheikun will not be able to stop Qin’s advance due to the overwhelming momentum of Moubu.

And since this is historical fiction, I’d also wager:

3. The horrific defeat that Shin will have suffered against Kou En will elevate him into an entirely new level of resolve, and I have said numerous times on here that I think Hara will retcon historical Kou En killing himself/being killed by Moubu’s soldiers into manga Kou En being slain by manga Rishin.

I don’t know what your problem with me is but I’m one of the more tame Kou En posters on here actually, lol. Catch me in a Moubu/Kanmei/Shouheikun debate if you want to see my true wank. Lol

 

[Seth]

@Seth @Jailer @Warchief Sanji D Goat @God Buggy @SakazOuki @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @Monet @kom5 @Bullet @Xlaw @Rumble

Any guess what Kanki could do which can make Riboku tremble in fear while according to Kanki, The battle has only just begun...

He's saying that after getting almost 80% of Qin army getting annihilated while he's doing only smiling. Lol

I think he will try to drag Riboku down to earth with him. Like for real.

Imagine he does this with such advantage for Riboku's army. That totally kills off any morale.

 

[Shanks]

I think he will try to drag Riboku down to earth with him. Like for real.

Imagine he does this with such advantage for Riboku's army. That totally kills off any morale.

Agrees. Like @SakazOuki has pointed about the master plan of Qin. They are not limiting this campaign with just Gian but stretching it towards Riboku's home land, Ganmon.

Like Ousen said in message to Kanyou, we're going to use Riboku's great wall against him and use this opportunity to put a lid on north.

Kanki knows how good Riboku's goodwill in North and how easily he can muster a great army there, strong enough to crush any of the Qin forces. While the strength of Ganmon or north has already been elaborated before by Riboku, SSJ, Bananji or even YTW.

 

[Monet]

Spoiler: history spoilers

Not wrong.

SHK moved to Ying, the former capital of Chu, in 226 BC, 2 years before Shin's invasion. This was likely a punishment because the real Ei Sei was a tremendously paranoid prick.

Spoiler

When the first invasion began in 224 BC, Shin and Mou Ten split forces to capture key strongholds on the way to the Chu capital, however SHK incited rebellion in one of the cities Shin had captured, Yanying (where he also moved to in the same year) forcing him to turn back after rendezvousing with Mou Ten instead of making progress to the Chu capital.

SHK set a trap while Kou En, who had preserved his strength for a counterattacked, initiated a relentless pursuit of the Qin armies that culminated in a battle in which the Qin were virtually wiped out.

Contextualising is not making excuses and I wish so-called fans of history would stop confusing the two. I have no reason to make excuses on behalf of what was most likely a brutal warlord who got his shit rocked by another probable brutal warlord. Real life Shin, or Li Xin, is not a figure I have any inclination of defending out of some misguided loyalty to a fictional interpretation. It's insulting you think I would, lol.

That said, as an avid fan of ancient history in particular, I know the truth does not survive the ravages of times without distortion. SHK's rebellion isn't even recorded in the Shiji if I recall correctly, so I am very curious how that will go.

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2022

I doubt anything will happen to him.

He has a 100K men, the Qin have barely 10K.

That said, rushing in blind against Kan Ki is not a good idea.

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2022

Spoiler

I think he will tbh.

Spoiler: History spoilers

so shk rebellion is not recovered in history.

we have to wait and see how hara do it

Post automatically merged: Nov 20, 2022

@Seth @Jailer @Warchief Sanji D Goat @God Buggy @SakazOuki @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @Monet @kom5 @Bullet @Xlaw @Rumble

Any guess what Kanki could do which can make Riboku tremble in fear while according to Kanki, The battle has only just begun...

He's saying that after getting almost 80% of Qin army getting annihilated while he's doing only smiling. Lol

burning civilians, city etc is not something that will affect rbk this much.
it have to be a move that kill most of rbk army or half as well as his generals.

but how 🤔
this is the hard question how he gonna do it with 10k only lol .

but i think it's the best time to blend in Zhao armies

10k among 300k will not be noticed if they dressed up as Zhao

 

[Shanks]

Spoiler: History spoilers

so shk rebellion is not recovered in history.

we have to wait and see how hara do it

Post automatically merged: Nov 20, 2022

burning civilians, city etc is not something that will affect rbk this much.
it have to be a move that kill most of rbk army or half as well as his generals.

but how 🤔
this is the hard question how he gonna do it with 10k only lol .

but i think it's the best time to blend in Zhao armies

10k among 300k will not be noticed if they dressed up as Zhao

Later part of the is just how Kanki's army or his brain works.

As for the beginning, by just targeting that many civilians, Kanki made Gian's army of hundreds thousand to disregard Riboku while move towards Hika.

Now if so many civilians were to be burned out, the belief and respect for Riboku under northern people will greatly diminishes. I believe a great chunk of Riboku's present army is of Gian's.

 

[Monet]

Later part of the is just how Kanki's army or his brain works.

As for the beginning, by just targeting that many civilians, Kanki made Gian's army of hundreds thousand to disregard Riboku while move towards Hika.

Now if so many civilians were to be burned out, the belief and respect for Riboku under northern people will greatly diminishes. I believe a great chunk of Riboku's present army is of Gian's.

i meant
the phrase where rbk will tremble in fear 😱.
it can't be cuz civilians got killed.

yep mostly is north army, but i think they will never betray or leave rbk cuz this is home land first and rbk did something great for them in the past .

maybe 👀 the anger and desperation will let them attack randomly as they do now and leads to thier lose which will rbk tremble by the result.

 

[Jailer]

i meant
the phrase where rbk will tremble in fear 😱.
it can't be cuz civilians got killed.

yep mostly is north army, but i think they will never betray or leave rbk cuz this is home land first and rbk did something great for them in the past .

maybe 👀 the anger and desperation will let them attack randomly as they do now and leads to thier lose which will rbk tremble by the result.

It would mean Riboku threw aside the life's of citizens in exchange of killing Kanki, at least something like that is what Kanki could play Riboku in the long run. He gets offed but at that same time drag down Riboku with him. At the cost of either the northern zhao or the zhao king turning their back on riboku, I think he will be left with a hard choice to make.

 

[Bullet]

@Seth @Jailer @Warchief Sanji D Goat @God Buggy @SakazOuki @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @Monet @kom5 @Bullet @Xlaw @Rumble

Any guess what Kanki could do which can make Riboku tremble in fear while according to Kanki, The battle has only just begun...

He's saying that after getting almost 80% of Qin army getting annihilated while he's doing only smiling. Lol

Maybe the same thing he did to the bandits in the flashback
Kill civilians, kill the enemy that is chasing them and then disguise to try and assassinate Riboku.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

He knows he will lose, but will drag down Riboku with him. These implications are gonna be felt later I feel after Kanki loses.

I feel different i think he truly believes he is going to win here, and regardless the outcome he doesn't care much about number he loses.

it is going to be a very good plan. So far this arc we've seen Riboku greatness it is now Kanki turn. Kanki masterplans are always saved for last which flips the game over, always!

Riboku weakness is love for people and Zhou, which truly make Kanki a worst match for him and it is going to be proven in chapters ahead. My prediction is Kanki either going to win or come so close to winning that only a new factor is going to change the outcome here. This new factor could be sleeping beast of Zhou or Ri Shin itself, for later something extreme'd may have to happen.

 

[Rumble]

When??? Where??? I’ve said multiple times over the course of my Kingdom postings that I’m more hyped to see Shibashou and Hakuki than I am for Kou En. I even said that I suspect Kou En could be a Kochou-esque figure and disappoint (in terms of showing and not necessarily strength level). When have I gone out of my way to hype Kou En to oblivion exactly??

Enough for me to notice.

You have over 12K post and the search function sucks, so just take my word for it. Or not.

Spoiler

It is a historical fact that historically Kou En almost eradicated Shin and Mouten at a point in time where Hara will most likely write them as being members of the 6GG of Qin. Yes he had help from Shouheikun locking them into Chu, and yes he kept his troop numbers sectet from them, but what I said was a straight up fact with no embellishment.

You're missing the point. My issue isn't with history, it's with you being inconsiderate.

Spoiler

Knowing that ahead of time might not bother you, but it can and will bother others. It will turn off ignorant readers if they come across such a simplified recounting lacking context.

Spoiler

Because Hara uses a General’s ability to amass and hide large amounts of troops as hype for that General. Look at Riboku this very arc, he amassed and his an army of 300K to annihilate Kanki. Hara doesn’t say “oh Riboku annihilated Kanki but he had 300K troops hidden so it doesn’t count,” Hara explicitly hyped Riboku’s ability to amass and hide such an enormous army while baiting Qin deeper and deeper into unknown territory, as explicit hype for Riboku’s ability as a general.

Spoiler

Again, my issue is with you leaving out critical context that can warp perception and turn off ignorant readers. War does not care about context, only results, yes, but the audience is not at war. Prospective readers are not at war. Readers read manga for entertainment. You going ahead and dropping something as significant as what happens out of context can turn off readers that don't know better. That's my issue.

You accuse me of having a “battle dome interpretation of history”, meanwhile I am operating under Hara’s exact logic while it is you trying to make excuses for why

Spoiler

Kou En annihilating Great Generals Shin and Mouten doesn’t count because “muh context! Muh numbers!” Hara doesn’t operate under such petty excuses. Get over yourself. Kou En amassing and hiding a gigantic army of 500K hypes Kou En’s abilities as a commander just as Riboku doing the same hypes Riboku (in Hara’s mind).

Spoiler

I am more than happy to go back and forth with you on this in a separate thread, I think it's an interesting topic, but relitigating the result is - again - missing the point of what I found objectionable about your post in the first place.

Spoiler

Because Hara will most likely write Shin and Mouten as being 6GGs at the time they face Kou En. If you’re mad about that, take it up with Hara and how he chose to structure his manga.

Spoiler

It doesn’t matter. Very few of these manga characters were “like” their historical counterparts. Why the fuck would that matter when discussing the manga?

Spoiler

Kou En’s defeat will be a combination of at least two factors:

1. Ousen will use his strategic ability to trick the Chu into misinterpreting Qin’s movements

2. By the time Ousen launches his grand attack, Kou En/Shouheikun will not be able to stop Qin’s advance due to the overwhelming momentum of Moubu.

And since this is historical fiction, I’d also wager:

3. The horrific defeat that Shin will have suffered against Kou En will elevate him into an entirely new level of resolve, and I have said numerous times on here that I think Hara will retcon historical Kou En killing himself/being killed by Moubu’s soldiers into manga Kou En being slain by manga Rishin.

Spoiler

We can save this for a separate thread if you want to take it there. That said, I don't get how you don't get that viewing historical records through the lens of a fictionalised retelling of the manga is folly, and in your case irresponsible because of the impact your posts can have on ignorant readers that can be easily turned off.

I don’t know what your problem with me is but I’m one of the more tame Kou En posters on here actually, lol. Catch me in a Moubu/Kanmei/Shouheikun debate if you want to see my true wank. Lol

I'll reflect on why you feel this is personal. That was not my intent. I think you're generally a good poster and fun contributor, I enjoy your posts and exchanging ideas with you.

I apologise for giving offense. That truly was not my intent.

 

[Shanks]

Korean Chapter's link :

https://manatoki163.net/comic/14323238?spage=1

Break next week :(

 

[Jailer]

Break next week

 

[Ninjashadow0209]

So this campaign will be boths sides the losers.

Then Kanki will be exiled and will be Yan main General and Shin main opponent