General & Others Tobi Roppo are the main opponents of the 6 weaker SHs
- Thread starter Shiroyru
- Start date
- Tags franky low diffs all six
I keep seeing people say that the rest of the 6 straw hats won't fight or beat the flying six because they aren't strong enough.
But the weak trio still were able to beat members of baroque works, Nami beat Miss double finger, Chopper and Ussop beat Mr and Miss Merry Christmas.
During Enies Lobby, Nami beat Kalifa, Chopper beat Kumadori
Even going back to Along park, Ussop beat Choo
Its not like the rest of the straw hats who aren't monster trio weren't able to beat someone much stronger than them before.
And the same logic applies to the Monster Trio. Luffy got oneshotted by Kaido, and its most likely that Queen and King are stronger than sanji and zoro. But they are still gonna beat them at the end of the day aren't they?
The real problem here isn't that the rest of the straw hats are too weak, the problem here is that the rest of the straw hats are so far forgotten by Oda that readers have forgotten what they were able to achieve and are capable of.
Kaido + the 3 calamities + 6 tobi roppo + adds exactly up to 10 people, just enough for the straw hats. Not to mention that 2 of the tobi roppo are females, just right for robin and nami. It just feels like a huge waste to me if the rest of the straw hats didn't fight them. I don't expect anyone to fight drake since he's too strong, not to mention he's most likely gonna betray kaido and switch sides anyway.
Who else can the rest of the straw hats fight?
The rest of the Big Mom pirates? They have Big Mom and Smoothie. Veterans like daifuku would be around the same as the tobi roppo so it wouldn't make much difference anyway. The big mom pirates all have hax devil fruits. Veterans like perospero single handedly beat brook and chopper at the same time. Nami lost to Galette. Don't think there is anyone suitable enough on the Big Mom pirates side to be opponents for the rest of the straw hats either.
The numbers? Against oversized brutes the fights would just be drawn out, if the numbers are anything like oars, then they would lose anyway. Plus it was hinted last chapter that the numbers could be even stronger than the tobi roppo, so its likely the rest of the straw hats won't be a match for them either.
Gifters or pleasures? They are just trash and scrubs. They are the beast pirates mooks and fodders. Nobody remembers them.
I guess the only other options would be some of the headliners from the Beast Pirates, but even they vary in strength like with people like Hawkins for example.
So I guess there really isn't any point for the rest of the straw hats to fight anybody else from the beast pirates or the big mom pirates since they ALL seem to be stronger than them anyway, its no different to the tobi roppo. That just tells us how LITTLE effort has gone into the rest of the straw hats from Oda, and also why the rest of the straw hats vs the tobi roppo isn't a problem to me. The rest of the crew are gonna struggle hard against the beast pirates no matter who they are up against, except for the fodders who they can one shot in mass waves that none of their names are gonna be remembered by anyone. So if they are gonna struggle anyway regardless, then I'd rather they struggle against some well rated fighters, than to struggle against nameless nobodies. In my opinion that would be even worse.
At the very least I would like the mid trio to fight some of the tobi roppo. Black Maria vs Robin, Franky vs Sasaki or Brook vs Who's Who. Brook was already able to clash with sheepshead. Franky and robin aren't weak either. If the weak trio can't fight the tobi roppo then the best they can do would be to fight headliners. But we still haven't seen much from the headliners so we will have to wait and see.
But the weak trio still were able to beat members of baroque works, Nami beat Miss double finger, Chopper and Ussop beat Mr and Miss Merry Christmas.
During Enies Lobby, Nami beat Kalifa, Chopper beat Kumadori
Even going back to Along park, Ussop beat Choo
Its not like the rest of the straw hats who aren't monster trio weren't able to beat someone much stronger than them before.
And the same logic applies to the Monster Trio. Luffy got oneshotted by Kaido, and its most likely that Queen and King are stronger than sanji and zoro. But they are still gonna beat them at the end of the day aren't they?
The real problem here isn't that the rest of the straw hats are too weak, the problem here is that the rest of the straw hats are so far forgotten by Oda that readers have forgotten what they were able to achieve and are capable of.
Kaido + the 3 calamities + 6 tobi roppo + adds exactly up to 10 people, just enough for the straw hats. Not to mention that 2 of the tobi roppo are females, just right for robin and nami. It just feels like a huge waste to me if the rest of the straw hats didn't fight them. I don't expect anyone to fight drake since he's too strong, not to mention he's most likely gonna betray kaido and switch sides anyway.
Who else can the rest of the straw hats fight?
The rest of the Big Mom pirates? They have Big Mom and Smoothie. Veterans like daifuku would be around the same as the tobi roppo so it wouldn't make much difference anyway. The big mom pirates all have hax devil fruits. Veterans like perospero single handedly beat brook and chopper at the same time. Nami lost to Galette. Don't think there is anyone suitable enough on the Big Mom pirates side to be opponents for the rest of the straw hats either.
The numbers? Against oversized brutes the fights would just be drawn out, if the numbers are anything like oars, then they would lose anyway. Plus it was hinted last chapter that the numbers could be even stronger than the tobi roppo, so its likely the rest of the straw hats won't be a match for them either.
Gifters or pleasures? They are just trash and scrubs. They are the beast pirates mooks and fodders. Nobody remembers them.
I guess the only other options would be some of the headliners from the Beast Pirates, but even they vary in strength like with people like Hawkins for example.
So I guess there really isn't any point for the rest of the straw hats to fight anybody else from the beast pirates or the big mom pirates since they ALL seem to be stronger than them anyway, its no different to the tobi roppo. That just tells us how LITTLE effort has gone into the rest of the straw hats from Oda, and also why the rest of the straw hats vs the tobi roppo isn't a problem to me. The rest of the crew are gonna struggle hard against the beast pirates no matter who they are up against, except for the fodders who they can one shot in mass waves that none of their names are gonna be remembered by anyone. So if they are gonna struggle anyway regardless, then I'd rather they struggle against some well rated fighters, than to struggle against nameless nobodies. In my opinion that would be even worse.
At the very least I would like the mid trio to fight some of the tobi roppo. Black Maria vs Robin, Franky vs Sasaki or Brook vs Who's Who. Brook was already able to clash with sheepshead. Franky and robin aren't weak either. If the weak trio can't fight the tobi roppo then the best they can do would be to fight headliners. But we still haven't seen much from the headliners so we will have to wait and see.
All those scenarios you mentioned, they were alone up vs a small group of villans, so it was easy to match up the Strawhats vs the few people they were up against. This battle is more comparable to Marineford or even Dressrosa, you have 8-9 differrent groups going at it, with the Tobi Roppo being most likely among the 13 strongest enemies. The 'weaker Strawhats' arent on the same tier when you look at the alliances side.
6v6 numbers match only if you include Drake, a WG captain. Hes pretty sure imo of being part of the group that fights the yonko, but who exactly do you think can take him down from Luffys crew? Whatever way you look, its a flawed matchup. I agree about the Numbers, in my scenario i have them taken out along with the useless gifters by the Sulong Minks in some background battle. Orochis men should face the samurai and yakuza led by Hyogoro.
Daifuku is bellow the Tobi Roppo if you ask me, ancient zoans > genie and thats just their full zoan forms. He gets mid diffed by either of the 6. Other than Smoothie and Snack, the BM children should all be bellow. Among the BM children you can find great matchups for the crew, there is people there stronger than them. And wait you acknowledge the shortcomings of the Strawhats against some of the BMP but still want them to punch a level above that?
The Tobi roppo are best left for Odens retainers. They should play a huge part in taking down Kaido (not BM) and if Zoro, Sanji and the dukes take out the Allstars, then the F6 are the next best thing
6v6 numbers match only if you include Drake, a WG captain. Hes pretty sure imo of being part of the group that fights the yonko, but who exactly do you think can take him down from Luffys crew? Whatever way you look, its a flawed matchup. I agree about the Numbers, in my scenario i have them taken out along with the useless gifters by the Sulong Minks in some background battle. Orochis men should face the samurai and yakuza led by Hyogoro.
Daifuku is bellow the Tobi Roppo if you ask me, ancient zoans > genie and thats just their full zoan forms. He gets mid diffed by either of the 6. Other than Smoothie and Snack, the BM children should all be bellow. Among the BM children you can find great matchups for the crew, there is people there stronger than them. And wait you acknowledge the shortcomings of the Strawhats against some of the BMP but still want them to punch a level above that?
The Tobi roppo are best left for Odens retainers. They should play a huge part in taking down Kaido (not BM) and if Zoro, Sanji and the dukes take out the Allstars, then the F6 are the next best thing
The SH alliance is outnumbered by a considerable margin : 5400 peoples against the 40 000 men strong Orochi + Kaido Alliance. Sure, most of those are useless fodders but there is enough guys in there for the Scabbard to deal : the Mimawarigumi and Orochioniwabanshu for instance, so they can take Orochi's head. There is 8 heads for 8 Scababrds now, after all. And really it's Orochi they hate the most, he's the one who had Toki hurt, usurped Oden's throne and killed Yasuie.
And that's without taking into account the BMP here... Among which many have far more troublesome powers than Ancien Zoans, which are just brute force and great endurance, nothing the Strawhats haven't already surpassed before. And honestly, if the Mid/Weak Trio can't take the Tobi Roppo, then they can't take Daifuku, Oven or Perospero and just have to deal with glorified fodder like Galette or pure support types like Mont'dor, which won't make for impressive showings from them, especially they end bloodied by those fights...
And that's without taking into account the BMP here... Among which many have far more troublesome powers than Ancien Zoans, which are just brute force and great endurance, nothing the Strawhats haven't already surpassed before. And honestly, if the Mid/Weak Trio can't take the Tobi Roppo, then they can't take Daifuku, Oven or Perospero and just have to deal with glorified fodder like Galette or pure support types like Mont'dor, which won't make for impressive showings from them, especially they end bloodied by those fights...
Orochis forces arent really important, the ninja didnt look impressive and doubt the samurai will either, otherwise he wouldnt rely on Denjiro the most of them all. They are also not prominent enemies so they wont get much panels imo. Good enough for Hyogoro led samurai to take on. Raizo, Shinobu and some other prominent ninja can join in vs the Orochiniwabansu. Have the dukes go sulong and fight Jack and now you have the rest of the Scabbards vs the Tobi Roppo. You said it yourself, they are outnumbered (5 to 1 as Kin said), so you cant have your most important characters wasted on irrelevant samurai. They are going for Kaido.
Regarding BMP, because of their troublesome powers they would be better matchups. The Strawhats also fight mostly in unusual ways, it would result in better battles since Oda would certainly have the Strawhats outsmarting them rather than winning on 'pure muscle'. You can have Usopp trapped in Mont dor books, struggle for a while, then figure it out and make Mont fall for one of his tricks. That gives you a more interesting fight than hiding/running from a freaking haki dinosaur come at him, while tanking his sniper shots. Then when he wins and isnt barely able to move afterwards, he can contribute to something else, like prevent Orochi from escaping, shoot down Kanjuro who just arrived. Or have Robin trap Daifukus arms so he isnt able to summon his genie, rather than spam giant limbs in an extreme diff battle vs Black Maria the whole time. Those are just some examples. To me, the Tobi Roppo are just brute tanks, so theyre best cut down by Odens men after going at it for a while, and it gives you a chance to off panel most of them fights and focus on others. And no, the SHs havent overcome something like the Ancient zoans before. They are superior to normal zoans even before taking natural strenght and haki in consideration.
Regarding BMP, because of their troublesome powers they would be better matchups. The Strawhats also fight mostly in unusual ways, it would result in better battles since Oda would certainly have the Strawhats outsmarting them rather than winning on 'pure muscle'. You can have Usopp trapped in Mont dor books, struggle for a while, then figure it out and make Mont fall for one of his tricks. That gives you a more interesting fight than hiding/running from a freaking haki dinosaur come at him, while tanking his sniper shots. Then when he wins and isnt barely able to move afterwards, he can contribute to something else, like prevent Orochi from escaping, shoot down Kanjuro who just arrived. Or have Robin trap Daifukus arms so he isnt able to summon his genie, rather than spam giant limbs in an extreme diff battle vs Black Maria the whole time. Those are just some examples. To me, the Tobi Roppo are just brute tanks, so theyre best cut down by Odens men after going at it for a while, and it gives you a chance to off panel most of them fights and focus on others. And no, the SHs havent overcome something like the Ancient zoans before. They are superior to normal zoans even before taking natural strenght and haki in consideration.
Mont d'Or had one fight and we saw he isn't good at it. He's a good support fighter, not a main one. Do you really want Usopp vs two of Bm children ? Mont d'Or is a tactician/strategist, in charge of the overall battleplan on WCI not a real fighter. He uses a gun almost at melee distance ! Below Oven and Daifuku, BM's children are all basically glorified fodders. They have good warriors such as Baron Deloeuf of course, but if the weaker Strawhats can't deal with the Tobi Roppo, I can't see why they'd be able to deal with someone who seems to be in the same range of power as them, considering his bounty, powers and abilities...
Yep, and you need to prove they are close because of that.
Veterans are next in line to sweet commanders as well (with the highest being pretty close to the weakest), does not mean they all are literally close to all all-stars.
All we know is, you need a certain strength threshold to get into F6, but we do not know how time spent in the crew influences this, unless we want to claim each F6 is above Hawkins for example.
Veterans are next in line to sweet commanders as well (with the highest being pretty close to the weakest), does not mean they all are literally close to all all-stars.
All we know is, you need a certain strength threshold to get into F6, but we do not know how time spent in the crew influences this, unless we want to claim each F6 is above Hawkins for example.
But with BM we have seen what happened when one got demoted, she didnt promote anyone and stuck with 3. And im more into hints than measuring characters one vs another, so based on what Oda hinted there, to me they are all 6 between above Peros and beneath Snack (Drake being the dark horse), otherwise imo Oda would have chosen to hype them in a different way.