Questions & Mysteries Who is Zoro's final opponent?
- Thread starter ImmaIvanoM
- Start date
But the readers know Zoro is stronger than Shiryu in that case so it doesn't matter.
Theres no dramatic tension unless the person Zoro is fighting is clearly stronger than him or at least arguably stronger than him. Like we had to see Kaku punk Zoro's ass in Water seven first before we cared about Zoro winning in Ennies lobby. Oda even gives Kaku a power up to match up with Zoro's random power jump but still we have to know the person he's fighting is that much stronger.
This is the entire reason many never actually cared about Zoro vs Killer UNTIL they knew it was killer. What's the point of beating some random Assassin.
Shiryu would at least have to have beaten a FRESH mihawk same as Zoro for that to have any drama to it. Or else we would just be waiting for Zoro to Punk Shiryu and that's lame for a final fight
Theres no dramatic tension unless the person Zoro is fighting is clearly stronger than him or at least arguably stronger than him. Like we had to see Kaku punk Zoro's ass in Water seven first before we cared about Zoro winning in Ennies lobby. Oda even gives Kaku a power up to match up with Zoro's random power jump but still we have to know the person he's fighting is that much stronger.
This is the entire reason many never actually cared about Zoro vs Killer UNTIL they knew it was killer. What's the point of beating some random Assassin.
Shiryu would at least have to have beaten a FRESH mihawk same as Zoro for that to have any drama to it. Or else we would just be waiting for Zoro to Punk Shiryu and that's lame for a final fight
That would be fitting for a Blackbeard pirate, and the right hand of a weasel like Teach. It would even further personalize Zoro's battle with Teach's strongest, and adds a whole new layer to the fight vs simply being the strongest man under Luffy's enemy who Zoro must beat. I dig this.
You forgot Pica.
Ok Naito.
You forgot Pica.
Ok Naito.
The series doesn't rely on what the narrator calls it. What if the narrator never calls him that? Are you going to claim he's not the strongest, because the narrator didn't call him that?
The scenario you presented doesn't accomplish Zoro's dream. The core of Zoro's dream is to become the world's strongest swordman that his name is Renowned even in the heavens. You don't become renowned in the heavens by beating somebody without actual proof. So that scenario you're presenting simply can't happen. That means even if there is a swordsman who's power is hidden to the readers so far, they will fight Zoro where people can witness his power.
Fujitora & GreenBull would be bad examples, they were renowned for their strength to an extent even prior to the Marines, hence being called monsters when they entered.
This scenario can't exist, because the entire point of Zoro's character is to be the strongest swordsman of all time. Meaning Oda will make it so that no other character exists other than Zoro who is the strongest swordsman. That's simply what the writing is headed for. And if some off-screen guy were to be called the World's Strongest Swordsman, burden of proof would be on them to prove they are stronger than Zoro. We don't need the narrator to tell us that Zoro is the WSS, when the purpose of his final fight is to make him the WSS, hence accomplishing his dream.
The ultimate antagonists of the series are the Celestial Dragons, and their heads are the Gorosei, individuals who are based on influential politicians of the past, they have physiques of fighters. It would make absolutely no sense for Mihawk to be the final fight for Zoro, unless Mihawk will become a bad guy, the likelihood of that is next to 0. Does it mean ZvM fight won't happen? No, it can still happen, but just before the Final War. You can even have the world recognize Zoro as the World's Greatest Swordsman going into the final fight.. and then pull out the Gorosei man, who is the true strongest swordsman in the world.
WSM/WSC/WSS - are all titles limited to the knowledge of the people of One Piece.
The scenario you presented doesn't accomplish Zoro's dream. The core of Zoro's dream is to become the world's strongest swordman that his name is Renowned even in the heavens. You don't become renowned in the heavens by beating somebody without actual proof. So that scenario you're presenting simply can't happen. That means even if there is a swordsman who's power is hidden to the readers so far, they will fight Zoro where people can witness his power.
Fujitora & GreenBull would be bad examples, they were renowned for their strength to an extent even prior to the Marines, hence being called monsters when they entered.
This scenario can't exist, because the entire point of Zoro's character is to be the strongest swordsman of all time. Meaning Oda will make it so that no other character exists other than Zoro who is the strongest swordsman. That's simply what the writing is headed for. And if some off-screen guy were to be called the World's Strongest Swordsman, burden of proof would be on them to prove they are stronger than Zoro. We don't need the narrator to tell us that Zoro is the WSS, when the purpose of his final fight is to make him the WSS, hence accomplishing his dream.
The ultimate antagonists of the series are the Celestial Dragons, and their heads are the Gorosei, individuals who are based on influential politicians of the past, they have physiques of fighters. It would make absolutely no sense for Mihawk to be the final fight for Zoro, unless Mihawk will become a bad guy, the likelihood of that is next to 0. Does it mean ZvM fight won't happen? No, it can still happen, but just before the Final War. You can even have the world recognize Zoro as the World's Greatest Swordsman going into the final fight.. and then pull out the Gorosei man, who is the true strongest swordsman in the world.
WSM/WSC/WSS - are all titles limited to the knowledge of the people of One Piece.
But I thought people also don't like the whole "nerfed" argument?
Have you not seen this in the forum? Everyone arguing over nerfed thehing and nerfed that? And shit like "Why don't we see abc go all out"
Like maybe Oda himself doesn't care but surely for the literal last fight in the series this will leave alot to be desired
Have you not seen this in the forum? Everyone arguing over nerfed thehing and nerfed that? And shit like "Why don't we see abc go all out"
Like maybe Oda himself doesn't care but surely for the literal last fight in the series this will leave alot to be desired
So then what IS THE PROOF?
I would agree with you but this all began because you said it's possible that what the narrator Says isn't true. The narrator telling us in chapter 50 something that Mihawk is in fact the strongest swordsman is no longer actual proof of that being true. Like literally 900 chapters ago the narrator lied.
So what's the actual proof now that the narrator can lie? Zoro beating mihawk will just be counted as hearsay same as Mihawk being WSS. At the end of the series. Zoro will just be theoretically the strongest. Since no definitive statement can ever be made.
I would agree with you but this all began because you said it's possible that what the narrator Says isn't true. The narrator telling us in chapter 50 something that Mihawk is in fact the strongest swordsman is no longer actual proof of that being true. Like literally 900 chapters ago the narrator lied.
So what's the actual proof now that the narrator can lie? Zoro beating mihawk will just be counted as hearsay same as Mihawk being WSS. At the end of the series. Zoro will just be theoretically the strongest. Since no definitive statement can ever be made.
1. The character description box =/=the narrator's talk are two different things. Description box states the name and any potential epithet that individual might possess in the world of OP. For example, Kaido's introduction was narrated. Mihawk's intro as the WSS wasn't. Whitebeard being WSM wasn't. The "narrator" is there when there's actual narration going on, not just the basic character description box.
2. Again, Mihawk became renowned as the World's Greatest Swordsman, after beating dozens of strong people (we simply don't know about them), then he became bored and became a warlord. The proof of his greatness to the world is the people he beat and the things he showcased with his swordsmanship. Did Roger become the Pirate King because the narrator said he was or was it because the world started calling him the Pirate King?
3. Because his final fight will demonstrate feats that surpass Dracule Mihawk's, as it will happen during the biggest war in One Piece, where people will see his might.
Now let me ask you the question, how does Zoro accomplish his dream of becoming the greatest swordsman of all time (there's another part to it here) who's name is renowned in the heavens... if he beats Dracule Mihawk in some unknown island without the world having clue about. To us he'll be the WSS, but that doesn't make his name be renowned in the heavens, in order for his name to be renowned in the heavens there needs to be actual proof that he beat Mihawk. The narrator saying "Hey zoro is the WSS", doesn't accomplish his goal.. the world of people acknowledging him as the GOAT to such an extent even his name reaches the heavens (hyperbole to say his name will be greatly known).
Zoro's dream doesn't rely on the narrator's statement, it relies on the acknowledgement of the One Piece world.
2. Again, Mihawk became renowned as the World's Greatest Swordsman, after beating dozens of strong people (we simply don't know about them), then he became bored and became a warlord. The proof of his greatness to the world is the people he beat and the things he showcased with his swordsmanship. Did Roger become the Pirate King because the narrator said he was or was it because the world started calling him the Pirate King?
3. Because his final fight will demonstrate feats that surpass Dracule Mihawk's, as it will happen during the biggest war in One Piece, where people will see his might.
Now let me ask you the question, how does Zoro accomplish his dream of becoming the greatest swordsman of all time (there's another part to it here) who's name is renowned in the heavens... if he beats Dracule Mihawk in some unknown island without the world having clue about. To us he'll be the WSS, but that doesn't make his name be renowned in the heavens, in order for his name to be renowned in the heavens there needs to be actual proof that he beat Mihawk. The narrator saying "Hey zoro is the WSS", doesn't accomplish his goal.. the world of people acknowledging him as the GOAT to such an extent even his name reaches the heavens (hyperbole to say his name will be greatly known).
Zoro's dream doesn't rely on the narrator's statement, it relies on the acknowledgement of the One Piece world.
Final opponent or Zoro's strongest opponent? The poll conflicts, because Zoro could take down Mihawk before they fight the World Gov., who in my belief will be Luffy's final enemy.
Mihawk will be Zoro's strongest opponent unless Zoro comes across Imu-sama and gets tossed aside by him. His final opponent? I dunno, Gandhi maybe.
Mihawk will be Zoro's strongest opponent unless Zoro comes across Imu-sama and gets tossed aside by him. His final opponent? I dunno, Gandhi maybe.
But Zoro is already famous. He has a bounty.
Zoro can just as easily be the most infamous swordsman the planet and that's it. Even heaven will know his name. Like Oda revealed that just being in the crew of great people gives you bounties. Zoro can literally do nothing and as long as Luffy becomes pirate king, Zoro will just get like a 300 million bounty just from the vicinity to luffy. And then maybe 200 million more for just being the vice captain. And imagine Zoro just does things specifically for infamy and his bounty reaches like 2.6 billion. Heaven will know his name. And he wouldn't have to beat mihawk to get that.
So you see acknowledgement from the world is fickle as hell. Things like political affiliations alone can decide your level of infamy and then strength itself can be decided via things like Luffy apparently being an Emperor from fake news.
Like I get that Roger's title of pirate king came from acknowledgement but his feat of finding the one piece IS THE ACTUAL THING. We see this happen on panel and that's the thing. Oda dedicates that God tier Roger laughs panel to Roger reaching Laugh tale and then the name pirate king just shows up in two small panels the next chapter
So Zoro has to defeat the actual strongest swordsman on panel for the readers to see and then acknowledgement happens after that. Oda has to convince the reader first. He cannot do that if The person Zoro is fighting isn't clearly the strongest.
And as far as we can tell the only proof that someone is in fact the strongest is the narrator saying so (And I take the introduction boxes the narrator introducing things. That's not worth debating for me).
Zoro can just as easily be the most infamous swordsman the planet and that's it. Even heaven will know his name. Like Oda revealed that just being in the crew of great people gives you bounties. Zoro can literally do nothing and as long as Luffy becomes pirate king, Zoro will just get like a 300 million bounty just from the vicinity to luffy. And then maybe 200 million more for just being the vice captain. And imagine Zoro just does things specifically for infamy and his bounty reaches like 2.6 billion. Heaven will know his name. And he wouldn't have to beat mihawk to get that.
So you see acknowledgement from the world is fickle as hell. Things like political affiliations alone can decide your level of infamy and then strength itself can be decided via things like Luffy apparently being an Emperor from fake news.
Like I get that Roger's title of pirate king came from acknowledgement but his feat of finding the one piece IS THE ACTUAL THING. We see this happen on panel and that's the thing. Oda dedicates that God tier Roger laughs panel to Roger reaching Laugh tale and then the name pirate king just shows up in two small panels the next chapter
So Zoro has to defeat the actual strongest swordsman on panel for the readers to see and then acknowledgement happens after that. Oda has to convince the reader first. He cannot do that if The person Zoro is fighting isn't clearly the strongest.
And as far as we can tell the only proof that someone is in fact the strongest is the narrator saying so (And I take the introduction boxes the narrator introducing things. That's not worth debating for me).