[FNZ] Salem of Lies Round 09: Throne of Lies

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

if you think he is the most suspicious, why not just vote to lynch him?

Or do you have another person on your mind?

battle scars

 

[Kiwipom]

battle scars

are you part of the no lynch group?

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

are you part of the no lynch group?

battle scars wont keep me down for long.
am giving it a bit more time.
dont be persistent on pushing me for a lynch on al.
I might see it as opportunistic and go for you instead .

you are yet to give me your reads
if you have prime sus on al as well you should have done the same.

 

[Kiwipom]

battle scars wont keep me down for long.
am giving it a bit more time.
dont be persistent on pushing me for a lynch on al.
I might see it as opportunistic and go for you instead .

you are yet to give me your reads
if you have prime sus on al as well you should have done the same.

I'm not pushing for you to vote AL specifically.

But I was curious why you avoided placing a vote on a player you were suspicious of and wanted him investigated. So to me, it either means that:

a) you are hesitant and do believe that there is an equal possibility of him being town as he is scum so you want him investigated.

b) you have someone else on your mind

c) that you just didn't want to place a vote because of fear of mislynch

So that's why I wanted to know if you were one of those believers that are against D1 lynches.
But instead of answering, you tried to play some reverse uno card.
Honestly, I was planning to vote AL. But this post is a bit alarming to me.

For now,

Vote Lynch Lanji

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

I'm not pushing for you to vote AL specifically.

But I was curious why you avoided placing a vote on a player you were suspicious of and wanted him investigated. So to me, it either means that:

a) you are hesitant and do believe that there is an equal possibility of him being town as he is scum so you want him investigated.

b) you have someone else on your mind

c) that you just didn't want to place a vote because of fear of mislynch

So that's why I wanted to know if you were one of those believers that are against D1 lynches.
But instead of answering, you tried to play some reverse uno card.
Honestly, I was planning to vote AL. But this post is a bit alarming to me.

For now,

Vote Lynch Lanji

thats fine.
you thought al was also sus prior to my post yet you didnt place a vote
you question my reasons for not placing a vote while you were doing the exact same . you cant make this shit up

 

[Kiwipom]

thats fine.
you thought al was also sus prior to my post yet you didnt place a vote
you question my reasons for not placing a vote while you were doing the exact same . you cant make this shit up

I talked about it here, my reluctance on voting him is because:
a) I have difficulty reading his gameplay
b) It makes no sense for mafia to be acting scummy on purpose since their goal is to blend in
c) but being an experienced player, he could also be playing some reverse psychology on us

Out of the active players, there's AL acting scummy on purpose. I hate this because it makes him hard to read.

We can conclude that he is acting scummy and that's final.

Other conclusion is that mafia won't act this way because mafia wants to blend in as town so by acting scummy they would be doing the opposite which makes AL a town member that is acting scummy. Some type of reverse psychology.

And I did have other candidates in mind. I wanted to wait until Reborn answered my accusation. But regardless, I never said I wasn't planning to cast a vote eventually.


But what stood out for me is when you asked for an investigator to investigate AL. Which means, you didn't have plans to vote for him at all for this phase. You were planning to keep him til night phase. And that's what prompted me to ask you, why are you not planning to lynch him if you suspected him?

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

I talked about it here, my reluctance on voting him is because:
a) I have difficulty reading his gameplay
b) It makes no sense for mafia to be acting scummy on purpose since their goal is to blend in
c) but being an experienced player, he could also be playing some reverse psychology on us



And I did have other candidates in mind. I wanted to wait until Reborn answered my accusation. But regardless, I never said I wasn't planning to cast a vote eventually.


But what stood out for me is when you asked for an investigator to investigate AL. Which means, you didn't have plans to vote for him at all for this phase. You were planning to keep him til night phase. And that's what prompted me to ask you, why are you not planning to lynch him if you suspected him?

quite simple
I am in favor of his method of scumhunting.
i am not in favor of him giving a reason hours later on a vote on tac when he could have given one right when he was asked. seems like he got pressured enough to the point where he's started breaking a bit .
but , there are another couple hours. You are right I dont plan on voting on something so small. I am going to need a bit more.
I just find it funny you had al as prime sus and was also waiting on putting a lynch while questioning me. seems like you were pushing his lynch indirectly through me and would have taken a backseat to all of this .
I got what I needed from this
you were questioning me from doing the exact same thing you are doing.


if you had read my initial assessment of al clearly , I had very similar sentiments as you did here
"since scums could grow, it would be in their best interest to blend in with town to give themselves enough time to gain the majority . however if as reborn said these two experienced players are good enough to think two steps ahead and realize we write them off as townies for this reason, it still places a huge target on them for those with investigative roles at night. hard to see them taking that big a risk now but it is possible, I say we have an investigator on either one at night."


my conclusion was based off considering all possibilities , that of reborn and myself .

 

[Kiwipom]

Lanji, I asked you two question. The first one is, why do you want to keep AL around til night phase when you suspected him?

your answer was just “battle scar”. I assumed it meant you didn’t wanted to make a move on D1.

so I followed up to check if that’s the case with my question of are you planning to not vote anyone at all?

You could of answered said you were hesitant like here:

quite simple
I am in favor of his method of scumhunting.
i am not in favor of him giving a reason hours later on a vote on tac when he could have given one right when he was asked. seems like he got pressured enough to the point where he's started breaking a bit .
but , there are another couple hours. You are right I dont plan on voting on something so small. I am going to need a bit more.

But instead, you got defensive and immediately said I was suspicious for questioning you.

I was asking you a few questions. And you got very defensive quickly.

I just find it funny you had al as prime sus and was also waiting on putting a lynch while questioning me. seems like you were pushing his lynch indirectly through me and would have taken a backseat to all of this .
I got what I needed from this
you were questioning me from doing the exact same thing you are doing.

I would of asked you the same thing regardless if it was AL or not because AL wasn’t the issue. My issue is I wanted to know what was your thinking behind putting someone you were suspecting and choosing to go no lynch and asking them to be investigated.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

Lanji, I asked you two question. The first one is, why do you want to keep AL around til night phase when you suspected him?

your answer was just “battle scar”. I assumed it meant you didn’t wanted to make a move on D1.

so I followed up to check if that’s the case with my question of are you planning to not vote anyone at all?

You could of answered said you were hesitant like here:

But instead, you got defensive and immediately said I was suspicious for questioning you.

I was asking you a few questions. And you got very defensive quickly.


I would of asked you the same thing regardless if it was AL or not because AL wasn’t the issue. My issue is I wanted to know what was your thinking behind putting someone you were suspecting and choosing to go no lynch and asking them to be investigated.

my issue is I explained it before your question yet you didnt read.

I have quoted my post in the previous page explaining my reasons as to why I chose an investigation rather than a lynch before you asked your question. you either didnt read what I posted or you are playing a weird game rn.

am not going on and on about this .

 

[Dark Admiral]

Vote Lynch - Natalija

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

Vote Lynch - Natalija

why?

 

[Dark Admiral]

why?

have my reasons. I want to wait for a while before telling them. Any good reads so far..??

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

have my reasons. I want to wait for a while before telling them. Any good reads so far..??

so far on al
sketchy instance here as well
"go read your posts"
"hold on was it kiwi or nw hmm"
"sure i'll when I wake up"
will look on the quote on kiwi if he was misquoting her or not right here..
giving his reasons for lynching tac after immense pressure in contrast to his response here
"those were blind reads

me voting tac has another purpose

now answer me"
not sure what changed for him to reveal that purpose. only thing that seemed to do the trick was the pressure.
my argument with kiwi is something I will leave to others to look into cause I will be obviously biased in my assessment. nothing as concrete as my sus on al tho

 

[Dark Admiral]

so far on al
sketchy instance here as well
"go read your posts"
"hold on was it kiwi or nw hmm"
"sure i'll when I wake up"
will look on the quote on kiwi if he was misquoting her or not right here..
giving his reasons for lynching tac after immense pressure in contrast to his response here
"those were blind reads

me voting tac has another purpose

now answer me"
not sure what changed for him to reveal that purpose. only thing that seemed to do the trick was the pressure.
my argument with kiwi is something I will leave to others to look into cause I will be obviously biased in my assessment. nothing as concrete as my sus on al tho

Al sama is a well experienced player. He is doing it on intentions. At best he is baiting out scums, at worst he is just a jester like character so will have to ignore him for now.

 

[Finalbeta]

Its simple. Read the following passage. The whole passage is important but I highlighted the some thing important in blue.

This is from wiki
"
In Throne of Lies, there are two distinct enemy factions: the Cult and the Unseen, but only one faction will appear in any game. Before members of the Blue Dragon can eliminate the opposition, they must determine which faction they are up against.

Both the Unseen and Cult factions have the power to convert their enemies into allies. Even a trusted friend that has already been vetted by your abilities can become an enemy. The Blue Dragon must always be suspicious.

The Unseen will always start the game with an Assassin and The Mastermind. The Cult will always have a Cult Leader and a second loyal subject.

Now, let me jot down the highlighted part
1)only one faction out of Cult and unseen would be part of the game. But what's more interesting is to note that from wiki one can infer that game will start with either of evil faction having "TWO PLAYERS" - assassin and Mastermind in case of unseen and cult leader and second loyal subject in case of cult.

now, in general Mafia we played, mafia usually starts with fixed quota and are 3-4 in numbers. But in this game this isn't the case and evil faction will most likely start with two people and number can increase.

Now, you are right that Mafia pulling off this scum buddying tactic would be unlikely but first of all this isn't mafia and second, that's what made me question them "because it could be seen as unlikely to us that it could be pulled off" especially when evil faction will start only with two players as highlightled above and players involved are far more experience than anyone of us here.

Also, questioning anyone doesn't amount to seeing them as scum. We need to question everything instead of assuming that this can't happen.

Also, you guys have overlooked this post of mine where I kind of cleared al of scum buddying due to his meta being consitent but this became possibile for me only after getting reactions from him.

I read the rules and what I find off is you believing that it is likely for an even smaller group of scums to pull off that, when you are hereby admitting that even in a 3-4 players scenario that would be unlikely.

You should be thinking that this is even more risky move for this game, but you are instead believing the opposite.

Also funny how you are mentioning the "experienced players factor" when it has nothing to do with it here since you are admitting yourself that such a manouver would be "unlikely" under 3-4 members.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

"you wanted to know reason behind my vote right>>

I wanted to see what others would say about my vote"
first answer to why he chose tac as his vote

al sama next answer upon further questions
"he did made an interesting post that's why I picked him"
two seperate reasons tho I would argue they arent mutually exclusive.
what kind of game are you playing mate .

"I think Reborn sus you and Flower for being scum buddy. IIRC Flower was very aggresive to lynch you in Dressrosa game. I think both of you are sus or either of you scum trying to take advantage of townie.

I feel neutral toward Reborn."

neutral was neutral on reborn , no pun intended.

not much except kiwi

she first supported me that you were kinda nit picking but than she said she thinks you're town

this shift was too fast for my liking

"When did I say Reborn was town?"
not what was said , you did lean towards town on your read on reborn here

kiwi kind of implied it but wasnt stated explicitly.

Alright, that's cool


I was curious because when I saw this post, it reminded me of myself when I first played as mafia


Instead of defending my actions or redirect attention/whatever mafia strategies there is, I tried to brush off the accusations with a "I've always been a dumb townie."

al sama's quote



In restrospect, that was a dumb response. But anyways, I sort of see the same approach here where you try to justify it as your nature.
And then you brought up about how you looked into the previous games.


My only dilemma is I'm not sure how to treat this ToL game as I don't understand the mechanics too well. I'll have to read a bit more into how the unseen/cult operate. But with the little back and forth between Reborn and Natalija, I feel like either both of them are Blue Dragon or one of them is. Not both of them are scum.

and as al pointed out , you didnt like reborn's nitpicking

Yeah I do. Not much, ngl I'm not really in the mood of playing mafia these days.

Regardless, just some things I'm noticing. I feel like Reborn's approach to scum hunt atm is a bit too forced. Like these questions don't feel very organic to me, it's taking a really small detail, being nit picky hoping that it will start off to something.




Not pointing any fingers yet tho, just noting this.

Also @Natalija I'm a bit curious, are you a new player?


And yes, I have won as mafia once. And I find this very interesting that you brought it up. Did you look at my previous games?


And you too Power, have you played any mafia games before?

Tho her saying reborn is nitpicking and thinking he still leans town isnt exclusive ,
moreso acting like she never said so at all or again misintepreting al's statement.

This is good shit.

 

[Finalbeta]

A note about LANJI:

He prefers his sus to be investigated when in this game a D1 lynch is by far more useful in that there's a chance of scum converting during the very first night, which means that taking a back seat on lynch is a very bad move, simply because potential sus have to be eradicated as soon as possible for such reason.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

A note about LANJI:

He prefers his sus to be investigated when in this game a D1 lynch is by far more useful in that there's a chance of scum converting during the very first night, which means that taking a back seat on lynch is a very bad move, simply because potential sus have to be eradicated as soon as possible for such reason.

scums can convert too ?
bruh
but as reborn broke it down you have the 2 scums yeah
mastermind and whoever the fuck else and it builds off from there?
are you saying both of those original players can convert as well?

 

[Finalbeta]

scums can convert too ?
bruh
but as reborn broke it down you have the 2 scums yeah
mastermind and whoever the fuck else and it builds off from there?
are you saying both of those original players can convert as well?

Mastermind for the Unseen and Cult Leader for the Cult, they can both convert, which means they can convert players at night, that's why a D1 lynch is important.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

Mastermind for the Unseen and Cult Leader for the Cult, they can both convert, which means they can convert players at night, that's why a D1 lynch is important.

meaning an investigation might reveal who they are
but a lynch if we get it right might end them now . so in the event say
we investigate and find out who the mastermind and cult leader is and push a lynch the next day
does the converted scum assume the role of the person you lynched?

I see now, more worried on the event avoiding a day lynch might allow scums to grow in numbers than lynching a blue dragon.

totally different dynamics .
seems you are convinced on a day 1 lynch as well then
who do you have in mind.