[FNZ] Salem of Lies Round 09: Throne of Lies

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I told you I hadn't read that post yet. My stated reason for unvoting you was exactly that two people had counterclaimed Flower:



Natalija's counterclaim was just one counterclaim, I was willing to prioritise the first claim, and while Lynching You would have told us Flower's alignment, Lynching Flower wouldn't have told us your alignment. There was also the possibility that Nat was redirected, so her sole counterclaim wasn't enough to tip the scales away from you Lynch.



I had voted for you before Nat's counterclaim, and it didn't convince me enough to unvote You. NeutralWatcher's counterclaim did though, so I did.
I can understand taking the first claim at face value and the counter claim as false
 

TheAncientCenturion

I will never forgive Oda
‎‎‎
I told you I hadn't read that post yet. My stated reason for unvoting you was exactly that two people had counterclaimed Flower:
The quote I pulled was from 20~ minutes after Neutralwatcher's. I find that unlikely. You even quote him before you lay out your strat. to lynch me for info.

Flower is lying. I know my role so that was why I can say no Unseen is in this game.

Vote Lynch Flower
You just claimed that you know Unseen is not in the game though?



Why would we need DA's flip to tell his alignment if you're an Invest role and already know what the Scum faction is?
:kaidowhat:
This sounds sensible. Notice that they said "suspect". No kill on Night 1 makes it much more likely we are dealing with Cult, but it far from confirms it. That said, I understand why you assumed Cult.



I don't find this part really plausible TBH. From her perspective, after her claim we were going to either Lynch TAC or her.
  • If we Lynch TAC
    • If he flips Town
      • We'd assume She's Scum and either Kill her overnight or Lynch her the next day.
      • The scum facton gets revealed the next day.
    • If he flips Scum.
      • The scum faction gets revealed today.
  • If we Lynch her:
    • If she flips Scum
      • The Scum faction gets revealed today.
    • If she flips Tow
      • We'd assume TAC was Scum and Kill him overnight or Lynch him the next day.
      • The scum facton gets revealed the next day.

Lying about which Scum faction is in the game only hides their existence for at most one day. I think it's kind of pointless for a Scum player to do.



Why did you think DA was Scum?

So your insistence to push me after that info came to light and after you mentioned it is very sus to me. You were too eager and too on the ball for the normal Cinera. Too open to Flower's words being correct despite the controversy surrounding them.


Natalija's counterclaim was just one counterclaim, I was willing to prioritise the first claim, and while Lynching You would have told us Flower's alignment, Lynching Flower wouldn't have told us your alignment. There was also the possibility that Nat was redirected, so her sole counterclaim wasn't enough to tip the scales away from you Lynch.
I don't see your point here. You say if Flower flips scum, it wouldn't verify me. But isn't that also the same thing if I flip scum? In the wiki, one of the prime strats. for Cult was to intentionally kill off your allies if you reach max occupancy to convert others. We have no idea how many enemies the scum start with. Could be 1, could be more. You have zero reason to believe me flipping scum would verify Flowers. Especially with the added heat on her.

For the redirection, that would be some kind of luck.

I had voted for you before Nat's counterclaim, and it didn't convince me enough to unvote You. NeutralWatcher's counterclaim did though, so I did.
Quite late.
 

Kiwipom

Ghost Princess
@Kiwipom BTW, I didn't necessarily believe TAC's role hint, but I did recognise what he was doing and noting it down. I don't want my words to be misread as me Town reading TAC.
At this rate, Flower and TAC alone have brought up so many roles that it is a bit alarming.

I'm not comfortable with so many claims happening. It's hard to prioritize who to protect etc.

Could also be scum trying to lure out the different roles and get a map of which players is what. But if that's the case, it is a high risk game to be playing.
 
N

NeutralWatcher

Is there a penalty for lynching jester? From the wiki there is a penalty for lynching Fool

From wikipedia:

If the Fool is executed, then all those who voted to execute them will lose 1charge from all limited-use abilities. In addition, there can be no trials the next day. If executed before Day 3, there can be no trials for 2 days.
 
D

Dragomir

Is there a penalty for lynching jester? From the wiki there is a penalty for lynching Fool

From wikipedia:

If the Fool is executed, then all those who voted to execute them will lose 1charge from all limited-use abilities. In addition, there can be no trials the next day. If executed before Day 3, there can be no trials for 2 days.
Yes, it will be the same penalty.
 

Kiwipom

Ghost Princess
The Fool? but how would she know to pick TAC out of everyone? lucky guess or figured TAC would argue well enough she'd get lynched?
yeah, if she is the fool (the jester I was referring to), then it is likely that she just picked a random player to do this on and make a bold claim hoping that she will get caught.

But like, if I was her and that was the strategy I was going for, I don't know if I would of picked TAC. So yes, you do have a good point and another reason why I am still not convinced that Flower is the fool.
Is there a penalty for lynching jester? From the wiki there is a penalty for lynching Fool

From wikipedia:

If the Fool is executed, then all those who voted to execute them will lose 1charge from all limited-use abilities. In addition, there can be no trials the next day. If executed before Day 3, there can be no trials for 2 days.
Jester is the Fool. So yes, we will be penalized for lynching the Fool
 
Is there a penalty for lynching jester? From the wiki there is a penalty for lynching Fool

From wikipedia:

If the Fool is executed, then all those who voted to execute them will lose 1charge from all limited-use abilities. In addition, there can be no trials the next day. If executed before Day 3, there can be no trials for 2 days.
oh fuck thats in big one
in that case that might also explain her hasty play with dark yesterday along with natalija confirming she's social or support. I trust that for now,
natalija seems like a fairly new player, doubt he's pulling this out of nowhere.
 

TheAncientCenturion

I will never forgive Oda
‎‎‎
Nope. That post isn't explaining a strategy to Lynch you for info. That post was challenging @Natalija's hypothesis that Flower claimed Unseen to confuse Town. This is the post I was responding to:



This is blatant dishonesty TAC.
:kriwhat:
Don't call me a liar or else.

I misread it then, because I saw the same detailed reasoning for lynching me and jumped to conclusions. It doesn't make me less suspicious of you or your behavior though.
 
>Flower said I am Unseen and she is Invest.
>Nat said Flower cannot be invest, because Nat invested Flower and found her to have a different role/function
>Flower called Nat Scum
>NeutralWatcher states that there cannot be Unseen and he hints he is Paladin (exclusive to Cult games)
>Cinera vehemently supports Flower in her lynch of me.
>Al Sama subs out.
>I come online and state that Flower's statements feel contrived and sus Cinera heavily.
>Krog states that the role/ability I am thinking of (to make me sus Flower less) is not in this game.
>I retract my theory.
>Kiwi sus's me and thinks that Flower and I are bussing each other.
>Cinera comes online and defends himself.
>I remain skeptical of him given earlier actions taken by him
>You asked for a summary.
Flower Claimed TAC bad
Nat claimed flower is social/support and can't investigate
Neutral claimed to be palaid
TAC claimed jailed
so flower vs nat can't be a town vs town scenario unless a person who can swap or control targets did this if there is a townie who messed up the investigations they probably should claim to avoid a mislynch
nat investigated flower and said she was social/support (townie), I don't know much about ToL roles but I assume framers would make they target seem as bad guys to investigative roles instead of a social/support, so flower couldn't possibly be framed
cinera vehemently supporting flower and defending himself is definitely weird behaviour
if NW is the paladin (sheriff/paladin is a guaranteed and unique role, so false claiming this role is basically suicide) then flower is 100% not a blue dragon, because paladin and unseen faction can't be in the same game, but in that case, why would nat claim flower is social/support? there is definitely roles similar to bus driver/witch in this game
the way I see it, nat has no reason to lie
tac can't be lying that he was jailed, because he could be easily counterclaimed and the prince would probably execute him tonight
tbh flower seems too suspicious for a experienced player like her, I would prefer to let the prince (jailor) deal with her instead of lynching flower, because I know there is a jester role in this game (the fool)
 
yeah, if she is the fool (the jester I was referring to), then it is likely that she just picked a random player to do this on and make a bold claim hoping that she will get caught.

But like, if I was her and that was the strategy I was going for, I don't know if I would of picked TAC. So yes, you do have a good point and another reason why I am still not convinced that Flower is the fool.

Jester is the Fool. So yes, we will be penalized for lynching the Fool
Fool is an easy thing to drop to get people to question a lynch when targeting a buddy.
 
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