General & Others Next Straw Hat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
- Thread starter Uncle Van
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- Tags #c4ng2g carrot fans are still losers carrot haters are real losers seethe at the rabbit carrot is doing nothing because she doesn't matter carrot will never join the straw hats carrot's story never even began cry about carrot everyone else in the verse neg diffs the bunny imagine thinking stussy won't join its over furry bros keep the bunny on zou nobody else needs her let it go furry bros momo is breeding yamato no character is less relevant than carrot oden larper fans can't read stussy > carrot & yamato stussy supremacy who will be the next nakama of the week? yamato always had a better chance than carrot yamato story is over
Could be, in any case Oda's idea of "nakama" and our expectations are definitely something different.
To WG and fan community in general, nakama is a friend sailing with Luffy till the end of their journey (they only leave temporary), featured on the SH group pictures, etc.
For Oda there are also honorary nakamas, like Vivi, and I guess Wano folks can be considered honorary nakamas as well, then there are Grand fleet members, and even islands under his protection, all building up to a considerable force. It's even possible that Carrot is an honorary nakama, say what you will, but she travelled with SH arguably the same amount of time as Vivi, if not longer. So Oda's "nakama" and our "nakama" can be different things :)
To WG and fan community in general, nakama is a friend sailing with Luffy till the end of their journey (they only leave temporary), featured on the SH group pictures, etc.
For Oda there are also honorary nakamas, like Vivi, and I guess Wano folks can be considered honorary nakamas as well, then there are Grand fleet members, and even islands under his protection, all building up to a considerable force. It's even possible that Carrot is an honorary nakama, say what you will, but she travelled with SH arguably the same amount of time as Vivi, if not longer. So Oda's "nakama" and our "nakama" can be different things :)
"So you didn't have expectations but you had a lot of expectation."
Stop trying to piss me off, you know there's a difference between having a personal agenda when it comes to theories, and expecting Vegapunk and Franky to discuss Vegapunk's science.
Should I have expected Ace and Garp to talk in Marineford? Yeah, BECAUSE ODA ALREADY SET UP THE PLOT, FOR FUCK'S SAKE.
"I have a lot of expectation" because I want Oda to bring up plot points he's already placed, and have his characters make sense? LOLOLOLOL OKAY, BRO. "He had too many expectations, he thought the Whitebeard pirates were going to show up at Marineford."
This is like the one arc I DIDN'T HAVE a personal agenda for, fuck off if you think expecting Vegapunk and Franky to talk about science, and wanting the Seraphim control system to make sense, are expectations I made for myself, when Oda's the one who put them in the god damn story.
"Maybe, you know, he doesn't really want his creation to be turned to shred ? Did that pass at least once through your mind that vegapunk is an actual scientific and human that loves his creation too much ? Oda is always in the subtext for that kind of things. Vegapunk Shaka holding back information in that context is perfectly explainable.
People like you see character like machines. They should not make no mistakes, no error of judgment. But One Piece is FULL of that type of subtle characterization."
You are so skilled at ignoring what other people are saying and pasting your own shit on top of it. My entire point is that Shaka being useless when it comes to fighting the Seraphim makes no sense because HE FUCKING DESIGNED THEM. Doesn't want to hurt them? Okay, tell Zoro and Luffy how to fight them and stop them without hurting them, scientifically.
It's not kindness, it's stupidity. He doesn't want to hurt them? Wow, C4N, I WONDER HOW HE COULD POSSIBLY DO THAT???
How could Shaka POSSIBLY help with the Seraphim without getting them injured??? The world may never know.
How many times you plan of ignoring the blatant holes in Oda's writing for the sake of saying I have unreasonable expectations? If Shaka cared about the Seraphim's safety, he'd be getting a Bubble Gun, or giving the fighters advice. Nope.
"Same BS. You think of character like machine, that should be 100% all the time.But the thing is: that wouldn't be good storytelling. Not in One Piece at least.
Plus, they have something called stamina, there is no reason to think those attack will work."
Bro you are a national treasure, need you in a Nic Cage movie. "If the characters tried to use their strongest attacks against enemies they're failing to damage, it would be bad storying telling."
Wasting their stamina using the same attacks and failing over and over is way dumber than using their strongest Haki at least a bit to check if it works.
"Same BS, you don't think Vegapunk as other things to think about rather than Franky right now ?"
Yeah, NOW. Remember the beginning of the arc, when the Vegapunks literally took time to run experiments by attacking the Straw Hats?
Oh, jeez, my expectations flared up and I hallucinated Edison saying "He just used a beam, who in tarnation is this guy?"
Woe is me, my expectations have me hallucinating entire pages of the manga now. Couldn't be THAT ODA DIRECTLY HAD VEGAPUNK COMMENT ON FRANKY'S TECH AND I EXPECTED HIM TO FOLLOW UP ON HIS OWN WRITING.
"No it would not. Actually, the split helps the pacing go faster, not slower. I think you are confusing pacing and focus.
The pacing is always great on One Piece (afar from a few exceptions). This is a common missconception."
Misspelling doesn't bother me, I do it all the time, but you misspelling misconception has me losing it.
You've got me, Onigashima would have been way slower if Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Jinbei, and Yamato all fought Kaido at once. LOLOLOL. Listen, there's nothing wrong with splitting up the crew. It's just they used to do stuff together all the time Pre Time Skip, and now, the moments where you see the whole crew in one area are memorable because it's so rare.
It's fine to have some slow pacing, too, at times.
"No, That's not because of pacing, that's because of Worldbuilding. Oda always condenses much more worldbuilding during those transition scene, that's why you think they are special."
So the Worldbuilding sections don't have pacing because you said so? What the fuck are you talking about?
"Oda always condenses much more worldbuilding transition scene"... Bro... that's... that's what pacing is. For fuck's sake.
"Wano didn't Drag for the most part. Again, common confused analysis of wanabee storyteller. Ask anyone reading Wano now if Wano is a drag. They will tell you : "what the frick ?" Aside from exception here and there in the arc, Wano had very few pacing mistakes and mistakes in general."
Make a poll asking if Wano dragged, lol, I dare you. Wano ended with Kiku having a hot-spring scene, without ever acknowledging her brother Izou's death, and Oda drew her wrong hand, SINCE HER OTHER ARM HAD BEEN DISMEMBERED.
In terms of planning, effort, art, and overall storytelling, Wano is a great arc. Just the amount of effort that went into the Raid on Onigashima is fantastic. Little things like the tower Zoro cut when yelling at Luffy for starting fights over Oshiruko, being used by Law to attack Big Mom later. Asura/Fake Oden's explosion causing the hole that allowed Inu to turn Sulong. The Pleasure Hall having no entrace by the end of the Raid due to so much of Onigashima's peremiter being destroyed.
The Raid is one of the most elaborate war arcs I've seen in terms of making a multi-layered setting, Oda worked his ass off of designing Onigashima as a combat area.
Was it still too bloated and full of half-assed plotlines? Yeah. If you're going to make the Ice Oni as filler for however many chapters, please, PLEASE, at least give us Kaido's backstory.
I've defended Wano way more than most, admitting it has pacing issues is like the least offensive criticism of the arc.
"Sometimes, the story is not all about the strawhats. I can understand the frustration but this is not inheretly bad, its just a choice by Oda.
And contrary to the belief, pretime skip wasn't much more focus on the strawhat either, the difference is that we had more introduction arcs than post time skip."
Completely disagree, arcs like Alabasta and Skypiea had long stretches of the crew sailing together and interacting with each other. Even Thriller Bark had the big Oars fight.
Post Time Skip, the only significant time the crew has spent together was sailing to Fishman Island and hanging out at the beginning, and on Zou.
Punk Hazard: immediately split up.
Dressrosa: immediately split up, then split into two groups, one going to Zou.
Whole Cake: already split up to begin with, split up very quick in the seducing woods.
Wano: split up trying to enter the country.
Hell, this panel in 989 was the first time the whole crew had been in a panel like this for NINE YEARS since Fishman Island, NINE YEARS.
It makes sense that it's harder to have them all stay together when the crew's larger now, but, MAN, I want to see the Straw Hat Pirates work together more, and if you think that's MY personal expectation, it's only because you're really good at ignoring the opinions of everyone else on this website.
Like I'm the first person to complain about the Straw Hats not interacting over the Time Skip, oi.
Why are you picking this many stupid fights with one of the only people who STILL BELIEVES CARROT IS JOINING?
Go back to making Carrot theories instead of defending Oda's janky decision making. You're like Pot with his eyebrows reversed right now, god. Your Carrot wank was better than whatever the fuck this is.
This is honestly what happened.
Yamato gets invite, Kinemon gets invite, Momo gets invite, Tama gets invite for when she can use Ninjutsu.
But, this would still work, though.
A lot of consider joining the crew to be sailing on the Sunny. If Oda considers joining the crew to be Luffy agreeing with someone to join his crew, then Jinbei already joined in Fishman Island, and Yamato, Momo, and Kinemon joined in Wano, with Tama having a partial agreement.
That would mean "New Nakama joining consequently" wouldn't consider Jinbei.
If that's the case, then we'll get Vivi soon (she's been teased a lot recently), then Yamato, Kinemon, Momo, and Tama (though I think Kinemon will die).
The wildcard is Carrot. I want her to join, but Oda has definitely treated Carrot differently than the Wano group.
Stop trying to piss me off, you know there's a difference between having a personal agenda when it comes to theories, and expecting Vegapunk and Franky to discuss Vegapunk's science.
Should I have expected Ace and Garp to talk in Marineford? Yeah, BECAUSE ODA ALREADY SET UP THE PLOT, FOR FUCK'S SAKE.
"I have a lot of expectation" because I want Oda to bring up plot points he's already placed, and have his characters make sense? LOLOLOLOL OKAY, BRO. "He had too many expectations, he thought the Whitebeard pirates were going to show up at Marineford."
This is like the one arc I DIDN'T HAVE a personal agenda for, fuck off if you think expecting Vegapunk and Franky to talk about science, and wanting the Seraphim control system to make sense, are expectations I made for myself, when Oda's the one who put them in the god damn story.
"Maybe, you know, he doesn't really want his creation to be turned to shred ? Did that pass at least once through your mind that vegapunk is an actual scientific and human that loves his creation too much ? Oda is always in the subtext for that kind of things. Vegapunk Shaka holding back information in that context is perfectly explainable.
People like you see character like machines. They should not make no mistakes, no error of judgment. But One Piece is FULL of that type of subtle characterization."
You are so skilled at ignoring what other people are saying and pasting your own shit on top of it. My entire point is that Shaka being useless when it comes to fighting the Seraphim makes no sense because HE FUCKING DESIGNED THEM. Doesn't want to hurt them? Okay, tell Zoro and Luffy how to fight them and stop them without hurting them, scientifically.
It's not kindness, it's stupidity. He doesn't want to hurt them? Wow, C4N, I WONDER HOW HE COULD POSSIBLY DO THAT???
How could Shaka POSSIBLY help with the Seraphim without getting them injured??? The world may never know.
How many times you plan of ignoring the blatant holes in Oda's writing for the sake of saying I have unreasonable expectations? If Shaka cared about the Seraphim's safety, he'd be getting a Bubble Gun, or giving the fighters advice. Nope.
"Same BS. You think of character like machine, that should be 100% all the time.But the thing is: that wouldn't be good storytelling. Not in One Piece at least.
Plus, they have something called stamina, there is no reason to think those attack will work."
Bro you are a national treasure, need you in a Nic Cage movie. "If the characters tried to use their strongest attacks against enemies they're failing to damage, it would be bad storying telling."
Wasting their stamina using the same attacks and failing over and over is way dumber than using their strongest Haki at least a bit to check if it works.
"Same BS, you don't think Vegapunk as other things to think about rather than Franky right now ?"
Yeah, NOW. Remember the beginning of the arc, when the Vegapunks literally took time to run experiments by attacking the Straw Hats?
Oh, jeez, my expectations flared up and I hallucinated Edison saying "He just used a beam, who in tarnation is this guy?"
Woe is me, my expectations have me hallucinating entire pages of the manga now. Couldn't be THAT ODA DIRECTLY HAD VEGAPUNK COMMENT ON FRANKY'S TECH AND I EXPECTED HIM TO FOLLOW UP ON HIS OWN WRITING.
"No it would not. Actually, the split helps the pacing go faster, not slower. I think you are confusing pacing and focus.
The pacing is always great on One Piece (afar from a few exceptions). This is a common missconception."
Misspelling doesn't bother me, I do it all the time, but you misspelling misconception has me losing it.
You've got me, Onigashima would have been way slower if Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Jinbei, and Yamato all fought Kaido at once. LOLOLOL. Listen, there's nothing wrong with splitting up the crew. It's just they used to do stuff together all the time Pre Time Skip, and now, the moments where you see the whole crew in one area are memorable because it's so rare.
It's fine to have some slow pacing, too, at times.
"No, That's not because of pacing, that's because of Worldbuilding. Oda always condenses much more worldbuilding during those transition scene, that's why you think they are special."
So the Worldbuilding sections don't have pacing because you said so? What the fuck are you talking about?
"Oda always condenses much more worldbuilding transition scene"... Bro... that's... that's what pacing is. For fuck's sake.
"Wano didn't Drag for the most part. Again, common confused analysis of wanabee storyteller. Ask anyone reading Wano now if Wano is a drag. They will tell you : "what the frick ?" Aside from exception here and there in the arc, Wano had very few pacing mistakes and mistakes in general."
Make a poll asking if Wano dragged, lol, I dare you. Wano ended with Kiku having a hot-spring scene, without ever acknowledging her brother Izou's death, and Oda drew her wrong hand, SINCE HER OTHER ARM HAD BEEN DISMEMBERED.
In terms of planning, effort, art, and overall storytelling, Wano is a great arc. Just the amount of effort that went into the Raid on Onigashima is fantastic. Little things like the tower Zoro cut when yelling at Luffy for starting fights over Oshiruko, being used by Law to attack Big Mom later. Asura/Fake Oden's explosion causing the hole that allowed Inu to turn Sulong. The Pleasure Hall having no entrace by the end of the Raid due to so much of Onigashima's peremiter being destroyed.
The Raid is one of the most elaborate war arcs I've seen in terms of making a multi-layered setting, Oda worked his ass off of designing Onigashima as a combat area.
Was it still too bloated and full of half-assed plotlines? Yeah. If you're going to make the Ice Oni as filler for however many chapters, please, PLEASE, at least give us Kaido's backstory.
I've defended Wano way more than most, admitting it has pacing issues is like the least offensive criticism of the arc.
"Sometimes, the story is not all about the strawhats. I can understand the frustration but this is not inheretly bad, its just a choice by Oda.
And contrary to the belief, pretime skip wasn't much more focus on the strawhat either, the difference is that we had more introduction arcs than post time skip."
Completely disagree, arcs like Alabasta and Skypiea had long stretches of the crew sailing together and interacting with each other. Even Thriller Bark had the big Oars fight.
Post Time Skip, the only significant time the crew has spent together was sailing to Fishman Island and hanging out at the beginning, and on Zou.
Punk Hazard: immediately split up.
Dressrosa: immediately split up, then split into two groups, one going to Zou.
Whole Cake: already split up to begin with, split up very quick in the seducing woods.
Wano: split up trying to enter the country.
Hell, this panel in 989 was the first time the whole crew had been in a panel like this for NINE YEARS since Fishman Island, NINE YEARS.
It makes sense that it's harder to have them all stay together when the crew's larger now, but, MAN, I want to see the Straw Hat Pirates work together more, and if you think that's MY personal expectation, it's only because you're really good at ignoring the opinions of everyone else on this website.
Like I'm the first person to complain about the Straw Hats not interacting over the Time Skip, oi.
Why are you picking this many stupid fights with one of the only people who STILL BELIEVES CARROT IS JOINING?
Go back to making Carrot theories instead of defending Oda's janky decision making. You're like Pot with his eyebrows reversed right now, god. Your Carrot wank was better than whatever the fuck this is.
Post automatically merged:
I can totally envision this in Oda's troll mode:
- I said new nakamas will join consequently
- I didn't confirm they will sail with Luffy
- I said new nakamas will join consequently
- I didn't confirm they will sail with Luffy
Yamato gets invite, Kinemon gets invite, Momo gets invite, Tama gets invite for when she can use Ninjutsu.
But, this would still work, though.
A lot of consider joining the crew to be sailing on the Sunny. If Oda considers joining the crew to be Luffy agreeing with someone to join his crew, then Jinbei already joined in Fishman Island, and Yamato, Momo, and Kinemon joined in Wano, with Tama having a partial agreement.
That would mean "New Nakama joining consequently" wouldn't consider Jinbei.
If that's the case, then we'll get Vivi soon (she's been teased a lot recently), then Yamato, Kinemon, Momo, and Tama (though I think Kinemon will die).
The wildcard is Carrot. I want her to join, but Oda has definitely treated Carrot differently than the Wano group.
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As you said, for a candidate to have a good chance of joining, he must have one of the strong points: An invitation (most of the official Strawhat were like that) or a request to join (Robin case) and the one who has the decision if he joins or not is Luffy, who is the Captain.
For me, Carrot does not have that point, which for me is very important as the person's Dream and the possible role he can play.
As some Carrot's fans have said, Pedro's will is not defined and cannot be taken as Carrot's Dream; the Role if she can have, in her case she can be Vigia (that point for me there is no discussion, I agree that it is her strong point); but unfortunately there is no invitation from Luffy or request from her to join, that's why for me she is not a strong candidate to join.
For me, Carrot does not have that point, which for me is very important as the person's Dream and the possible role he can play.
As some Carrot's fans have said, Pedro's will is not defined and cannot be taken as Carrot's Dream; the Role if she can have, in her case she can be Vigia (that point for me there is no discussion, I agree that it is her strong point); but unfortunately there is no invitation from Luffy or request from her to join, that's why for me she is not a strong candidate to join.
You are completely right, this is by far the thing that hurts Carrot most: Luffy has NEVER expressed interest in Carrot joining the crew.
I really want Carrot to join, but, Luffy wanting you to join the crew is the most important thing, Jinbei says it straight up to Yamato at the end of the Raid:
Carrot's interactions with the Straw Hats, her connections to Wano, and Pedro's Will makes her a good candidate, but she needs Luffy to take interest in her, and to make it clear she wants to be a Pirate, not just explore the world and defend Zou.
I really want Carrot to join, but, Luffy wanting you to join the crew is the most important thing, Jinbei says it straight up to Yamato at the end of the Raid:
Carrot's interactions with the Straw Hats, her connections to Wano, and Pedro's Will makes her a good candidate, but she needs Luffy to take interest in her, and to make it clear she wants to be a Pirate, not just explore the world and defend Zou.
No there is not. It's illegitimate expectation in that case.
No. You hold expectation without setup. I already explained the difference and the problem with it.
Yes in that case, not in the case of Franky and Vegapunk.
That's an illegitimate expectation. An expectation without setup. A setup is A CLEAR NARRATIVE tool. It's not just two character looking like each other.
This, is a setup:
Vegapunk and Frankuy being engineer and scientist is not.
If you are gonna ignore what I say..
No. Not in that case.
So you have what you want in a sence, recognition from Vegapunk. There is no need to go further unless Oda has something more in store.
What ?
Sory aboutt zat.
You are again confusing pacing with focus.
The pacing is the same.
No. Pacing is the way your create rythm through panel. You can add more content and keep your pacing. In the case of those transition, worldbuilding replace everything else. Hence why all the transition seems amazing.
It's a matter of content, not rythm.
On a site full of bias people ? Sure.. Good idea.
That's the strengh of the samourai for you. They were all ready to die. It was an honor for them.
Why do you need Kaido's backstory ?
Wano has contnt issue, small one, not pacing issue.
Just like Post time skip.
No it was not.
This one was:
I can understand that.
This is a fight only for you. I'm just defending Oda here.
No. You hold expectation without setup. I already explained the difference and the problem with it.
Yes in that case, not in the case of Franky and Vegapunk.
That's an illegitimate expectation. An expectation without setup. A setup is A CLEAR NARRATIVE tool. It's not just two character looking like each other.
This, is a setup:
Vegapunk and Frankuy being engineer and scientist is not.
If you are gonna ignore what I say..
No. Not in that case.
So you have what you want in a sence, recognition from Vegapunk. There is no need to go further unless Oda has something more in store.
What ?
Sory aboutt zat.
You are again confusing pacing with focus.
The pacing is the same.
No. Pacing is the way your create rythm through panel. You can add more content and keep your pacing. In the case of those transition, worldbuilding replace everything else. Hence why all the transition seems amazing.
It's a matter of content, not rythm.
On a site full of bias people ? Sure.. Good idea.
That's the strengh of the samourai for you. They were all ready to die. It was an honor for them.
Why do you need Kaido's backstory ?
Wano has contnt issue, small one, not pacing issue.
Just like Post time skip.
No it was not.
This one was:
I can understand that.
This is a fight only for you. I'm just defending Oda here.
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