Powers & Abilities Sword skill (without haki) is a myth: Haki makes a master swordsman
- Thread starter Nidai_Kitetsu
- Start date
I hope this is one of the perks of a black blade so bad … at that point it’s just the swordsman will saying cut or no cut… a near indestructible blade with heavier weight and bigger slashes 
I see the words "sword skills" gets thrown around in One Piece community and we all know its because of the age old debate of Shanks vs Mihawk. Trollda himself fuels such debates by mentioning "sword skill" in Mihawk's bounty poster. I have been thinking a while the meaning of "sword skill" in One Piece context and came to the conclusion that sword skills do not really exist in One Piece, its a myth.
The lack of depth in sword styles in One Piece
In order to discuss sword skills, it is important to consider sword styles first. Lets take the gold standard of sword mangas Rurouni Kenshin for example (If you havent read it yet, start now!). Some of the well known sword styles from Rurouni Kenshin are =>
- Hiten Mitsurigi style: Kenshin's style, a fast-paced style that focuses on agility and speed
- Kamiya Kasshin style: Kaoru's style, thats focused on defense and counters
- Gatotsu: Sword style of the GOAT Hajime Saito, a style that emphasizes speed and precision in order to kill opponents quickly
- Kodachi style: Aoshi's style that use a short sword to create impregnable defense and then attack with martial arts
It is clear that Noburo Watsuki, the creator of Rurouni Kenshin, gave careful consideration to the sword styles portrayed in the manga. These styles are well-defined and tailored to suit the personalities, physical abilities, and weaponry of their respective users. Now lets think about some of the prominent sword styles we got in One Piece =>
- Two sword style: Oden
- Three sword style: Zoro
- Four sword style: Kaku
- Six sword style: Hatchan
- Eight sword style: Hyouzou
- Nine sword style: Asura Kyutoryu
One could argue that Oda is simply adding a new sword and calling it a new style in One Piece, without much thought put into it. Its either Oda was being lazy with the styles or he simply didnt care much. What if sword styles, as well as sword skills, doesnt really matter for a top tier swordsmen? That would explain why sword styles lacking in depth and careful consideration.
There is only one skill exclusive to the "pure" swordsmen
The majority of techniques used by One Piece swordsmen are rooted in various forms of cutting or slashing. Its quite possible that individuals like Roger or Shanks could perform this maneuvers given their strength, skill or agility.
As far as I am concerned, there is only one skill thats exclusive to the so called "pure" swordsmen: the flying slash. This technique was introduced during Skypea when Zoro fought Braham. We have also seen Zoro imbuing haki with a flying slash against Monet. Flying slash is something that probably requires a certain level of skill and I dont see Shanks/Roger replicating it without any practice. However, the haki emission strikes (e.g. kamusari) from Roger/Shanks have a similar function. Is flying slash truly necessary for a swordsman who has haki emission strikes in his arsenal?
Another technique that could potentially be exclusive to "pure" swordsmen is the "iai" technique, which involves drawing the sword quickly and striking in one fluid motion. Zoro has used this technique with his Shishi Sonson attack. However, going forward, I dont see any scenario where a fast draw would impact the outcome of a fight.
The use of Juken - Gentle blade
Perhaps you are thinking, "Well Nidai, we have seen how crucial sword skills can be all the way back in chapter 51" =>
Zoro: It was DEFLECTED. No matter times you shoot him, the outcome will be the same.
He changed the trajectory of the bullet with the tip of his sword.
Pirate: ...who the hell are you?!
Zoro: I've never seen such a graceful sword.
Mihawk: There is no strength in a sword without softness.
Zoro: And you split this ship with that sword as well?
Mihawk: Indeed.
Zoro admired it as if using gentle blade alone made Mihawk the WSS. Unfortunately, Tashigi replicated this feat:
No disrespect to Tashigi, but if she can replicate one of the greatest sword skills, perhaps sword skills dont amount much for the top fighters in the verse. Its like she maxed out her sword skills and its not enough to push her beyond the captain rank in the marines.
The Pinnacle of Swordsmanship: The Ability to Cut Nothing
There's been many theories floating around regarding how Zoro will beat Shiryu. Long story short, the theory says Zoro will learn to cut nothing to beat Shiryu. Cutting nothing was first mentioned by Kyoshiro =>
Whats relevant and important for this thread is, Kyoshiro regarded "cutting nothing" as the pinnacle of swordsmanship =>
I had high hopes this would be some special sword skill thats unique to the "pure" swordsmen, the people who live by and die by their swords. I was expecting some sort of ultra instinct awakening or some other badass shit unique to sword masters. However, my excitement was dashed when Oda revealed "cutting nothing" is heavily reliant on haki abilities =>
Only Haki is real
1. The first thing (the only thing?) Mihawk taught Zoro is haki =>
2. While teaching his swordstyle to his disciples, the first thing Oden mentions is ryou =>
3. A master swordsman can use his haki to cut everything or cut nothing (see the Hyogoro panel above)
We saw during Zoro vs King fight that all the techniques in the world wasnt enough, but once Zoro unleashed CoC, it was over.
TLDR
Haki is everything for a swordsman, sword skill means squat
Some tags (who I think might be interested):
The lack of depth in sword styles in One Piece
In order to discuss sword skills, it is important to consider sword styles first. Lets take the gold standard of sword mangas Rurouni Kenshin for example (If you havent read it yet, start now!). Some of the well known sword styles from Rurouni Kenshin are =>
- Hiten Mitsurigi style: Kenshin's style, a fast-paced style that focuses on agility and speed
- Kamiya Kasshin style: Kaoru's style, thats focused on defense and counters
- Gatotsu: Sword style of the GOAT Hajime Saito, a style that emphasizes speed and precision in order to kill opponents quickly
- Kodachi style: Aoshi's style that use a short sword to create impregnable defense and then attack with martial arts
It is clear that Noburo Watsuki, the creator of Rurouni Kenshin, gave careful consideration to the sword styles portrayed in the manga. These styles are well-defined and tailored to suit the personalities, physical abilities, and weaponry of their respective users. Now lets think about some of the prominent sword styles we got in One Piece =>
- Two sword style: Oden
- Three sword style: Zoro
- Four sword style: Kaku
- Six sword style: Hatchan
- Eight sword style: Hyouzou
- Nine sword style: Asura Kyutoryu
One could argue that Oda is simply adding a new sword and calling it a new style in One Piece, without much thought put into it. Its either Oda was being lazy with the styles or he simply didnt care much. What if sword styles, as well as sword skills, doesnt really matter for a top tier swordsmen? That would explain why sword styles lacking in depth and careful consideration.
There is only one skill exclusive to the "pure" swordsmen
The majority of techniques used by One Piece swordsmen are rooted in various forms of cutting or slashing. Its quite possible that individuals like Roger or Shanks could perform this maneuvers given their strength, skill or agility.
As far as I am concerned, there is only one skill thats exclusive to the so called "pure" swordsmen: the flying slash. This technique was introduced during Skypea when Zoro fought Braham. We have also seen Zoro imbuing haki with a flying slash against Monet. Flying slash is something that probably requires a certain level of skill and I dont see Shanks/Roger replicating it without any practice. However, the haki emission strikes (e.g. kamusari) from Roger/Shanks have a similar function. Is flying slash truly necessary for a swordsman who has haki emission strikes in his arsenal?
Another technique that could potentially be exclusive to "pure" swordsmen is the "iai" technique, which involves drawing the sword quickly and striking in one fluid motion. Zoro has used this technique with his Shishi Sonson attack. However, going forward, I dont see any scenario where a fast draw would impact the outcome of a fight.
The use of Juken - Gentle blade
Perhaps you are thinking, "Well Nidai, we have seen how crucial sword skills can be all the way back in chapter 51" =>
Zoro: It was DEFLECTED. No matter times you shoot him, the outcome will be the same.
He changed the trajectory of the bullet with the tip of his sword.
Pirate: ...who the hell are you?!
Zoro: I've never seen such a graceful sword.
Mihawk: There is no strength in a sword without softness.
Zoro: And you split this ship with that sword as well?
Mihawk: Indeed.
Zoro admired it as if using gentle blade alone made Mihawk the WSS. Unfortunately, Tashigi replicated this feat:
The Pinnacle of Swordsmanship: The Ability to Cut Nothing
There's been many theories floating around regarding how Zoro will beat Shiryu. Long story short, the theory says Zoro will learn to cut nothing to beat Shiryu. Cutting nothing was first mentioned by Kyoshiro =>
Whats relevant and important for this thread is, Kyoshiro regarded "cutting nothing" as the pinnacle of swordsmanship =>
I had high hopes this would be some special sword skill thats unique to the "pure" swordsmen, the people who live by and die by their swords. I was expecting some sort of ultra instinct awakening or some other badass shit unique to sword masters. However, my excitement was dashed when Oda revealed "cutting nothing" is heavily reliant on haki abilities =>
Only Haki is real
1. The first thing (the only thing?) Mihawk taught Zoro is haki =>
2. While teaching his swordstyle to his disciples, the first thing Oden mentions is ryou =>
3. A master swordsman can use his haki to cut everything or cut nothing (see the Hyogoro panel above)
We saw during Zoro vs King fight that all the techniques in the world wasnt enough, but once Zoro unleashed CoC, it was over.
TLDR
Haki is everything for a swordsman, sword skill means squat
Some tags (who I think might be interested):
@HA001 OF THE RAIN
@nik87
@Fleet Leader Fenaker
@L55
@Den_Den_Mushi
@wordy
@Cinera
@Celestial D. Dragon
@Erkan12
@SkySanji (hater)
@The Buddha
@Levi
@kurohime
@Albino 👑
@Rootbeer
@Bogard
@Garp the Fist
@Gol D. Roger
@ZenZu (haki hater)
@HeroesNZ
@TheAncientCenturion
@Buggy D Clown
@CbShadow
@Shanal
@Thabeast
@Rukusho
@grey matter
@ShishioIsBack
@Franosuke
@Rivaille
@Peroroncino
@Blother Fertitta
@ShadyOjiro
@Cyrus the Cactus
@Reborn
@Lor D. Coast
@mly90
@Marimo_420
@Malio
@kumae
@Blazing Lion
@yorosenpai
@Gensui Sazid
@Daikenki
@Salah WG
@Ice devil slayer
@Roronoa-sama
@nik87
@Fleet Leader Fenaker
@L55
@Den_Den_Mushi
@wordy
@Cinera
@Celestial D. Dragon
@Erkan12
@SkySanji (hater)
@The Buddha
@Levi
@kurohime
@Albino 👑
@Rootbeer
@Bogard
@Garp the Fist
@Gol D. Roger
@ZenZu (haki hater)
@HeroesNZ
@TheAncientCenturion
@Buggy D Clown
@CbShadow
@Shanal
@Thabeast
@Rukusho
@grey matter
@ShishioIsBack
@Franosuke
@Rivaille
@Peroroncino
@Blother Fertitta
@ShadyOjiro
@Cyrus the Cactus
@Reborn
@Lor D. Coast
@mly90
@Marimo_420
@Malio
@kumae
@Blazing Lion
@yorosenpai
@Gensui Sazid
@Daikenki
@Salah WG
@Ice devil slayer
@Roronoa-sama
A. My powerscaling
- Shanks' CoC > Mihawk's CoC (if any), shown many times in the manga
- Mihawk's CoA and or CoO might be > Shanks' CoA and CoO, and Mihawk's peak swordsmanship + CoA + CoO become the main reason for WSS compared to Shanks
- Mihawk is stronger vs many enemies at once due to his AoE size, Shanks is stronger in 1v1 due to concentrated CoC damage
- Mihawk have WSS advantage in portrayal, Shanks has CoC advantage in portrayal. The portrayal and their derivates kinda contradict each other
---
B. Narrative
- For me, this is even more critical in determining powerlevel compared to the powerscaling Oda has shown in the manga
- If Shanks is gonna be Zoro's decisive opponent (meaning Zoro defeat Shanks just like Zoro defeat King) and it happens before Zoro vs Mihawk, i will be sure that Mihawk is stronger
- If Shanks is gonna be Luffy's decisive opponent and it happens in the same arc climax as Zoro vs Mihawk, i will be sure that Shanks is stronger
- If Shanks is gonna be Luffy's decisive opponent and it happens in an arc before the arc of Zoro vs Mihawk, i will wait for each of their final feats to decide
- Oda makes things vague until both fighters are defeated
I don't even think Sword Slashes need that much skills
Daifuku's genie was able to do it
Pre Timeskip Zoro was able to do it
Ryuma's zombie was able to do it
And 2/3 of these are self taught, Brook Post Timeskip figured it out
The reason why we never see The Likes of Shanks doing it is because he was never in a situation where he needs to do it.
Daifuku's genie was able to do it
Pre Timeskip Zoro was able to do it
Ryuma's zombie was able to do it
And 2/3 of these are self taught, Brook Post Timeskip figured it out
The reason why we never see The Likes of Shanks doing it is because he was never in a situation where he needs to do it.
Most likely this 
Anyways, I mostly agree with you, Shanks will have better COC, and Mihawk will compensate it with his raw strength and sword kills (obviously Mihawk has COC, just not as strong as Shanks'COC), makes him edge out for a bit as a battle.
I still believe Kaido > Shanks, but Kaido's COC < Shanks, because Kaido makes up with his endurance, raw strength.
Simply put, Kaido 100, Mihawk = 96, Shanks = 95
Big Mom: 85 just to trigger Noodle
Anyways, I mostly agree with you, Shanks will have better COC, and Mihawk will compensate it with his raw strength and sword kills (obviously Mihawk has COC, just not as strong as Shanks'COC), makes him edge out for a bit as a battle.
I still believe Kaido > Shanks, but Kaido's COC < Shanks, because Kaido makes up with his endurance, raw strength.
Simply put, Kaido 100, Mihawk = 96, Shanks = 95
Big Mom: 85 just to trigger Noodle
Eeh, i thought this is also a support point for Shanks vs Mihawk argument from you...i guess not. But swordskill being not important for high-tier swordsman seems odd tho.
Mihawk's sword is graceful. He's able to slice a huge iceberg with math precision, the cut is real clean and all, while at least Shanks' version of slash didnt do even that, it exploded instead and make blunt trauma on Kidd etc
Mihawk's sword is graceful. He's able to slice a huge iceberg with math precision, the cut is real clean and all, while at least Shanks' version of slash didnt do even that, it exploded instead and make blunt trauma on Kidd etc
Great point and comparison..
By the way related to Daikengou the Dai is not separated.. lt means Swords Grandmaster just like in Chess there are Masters and Grandmasters..
Still does not change that the Story hyped him up for his shooting skills not Beckman.. Who is stronger than Yasopp..
By the way related to Daikengou the Dai is not separated.. lt means Swords Grandmaster just like in Chess there are Masters and Grandmasters..
Still does not change that the Story hyped him up for his shooting skills not Beckman.. Who is stronger than Yasopp..
Last edited:
Lerkan how did Roger scar wb without cutting him ?
Get your bald ass here and answer Lerkan @Erkan12
it was explicitly stated that wb could have been the pk if he wanted to, even roger was ready to tell him the location of laughtale
roger was never>wb they are equals
You realise people who go at it for 3 days with the intention of killing each other don't act friendly after..
Roger was never serious fighting Whitebeard..
You live in a messed up reality if you believe there such a thing as equal..
CoC>CoA
Mihawk does not use CoC coating in a Sword duel..
Not all of them.
WGS : Dai Kengou
WSS : Saikyo Kenshi
WSM : Saikyo Otoko
This is WGS - Dai Kengou not the same with WSM.
-
Just because you focus on WSS that doesn't make WGS disappear.
VIZ choose Dai Kengou here on purpose even though its Saikyo Kenshi but then ZKKboys complained they started to use WSS again but as Zolo told Pica they still use WGS from time to time.
WGS : Dai Kengou
WSS : Saikyo Kenshi
WSM : Saikyo Otoko
This is WGS - Dai Kengou not the same with WSM.
-
Just because you focus on WSS that doesn't make WGS disappear.
VIZ choose Dai Kengou here on purpose even though its Saikyo Kenshi but then ZKKboys complained they started to use WSS again but as Zolo told Pica they still use WGS from time to time.
Japanese is hard and when they are translating to English, a lot of meaning is lost.
Last edited:
The explosion has CoC sphere and CoC black lightning, the cannon were ripped and crushed apart into two part, the cut is not precise, there are pieces of cannon...the explosion doesnt even hurt Shanks who is in its front point blank range, while the full damage brunt hit Kidd..its Shanks CoC explosion cmon