Powers & Abilities General CoA Discussion - Basic & Advanced
- Thread starter Gol D. Roger
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Yes, I’m questioning you because you’re twisting the panels to prove your headcanon. The actual panels go against what you’re saying. Nothing in Wano shows that Zoro has advanced CoA. He doesn’t. This is just as bad as when Sanji fans tried to say that Sanji had FS as Luffy was attempting to get it. It’s gotten to the point where you’re trying to retcon that Zoro used advanced CoA, not just haki, but advanced CoA from before he even knew what haki was, and before haki even existed.
Ryou is just generic haki. Flow is simply covering yourself in armor. Hyou says both of these things. Zoro did not use any type of haki in Alabasta, unless you’re trying to argue that every time Zoro cut steel following the fight with Mr. 1, he was using haki, and not just haki, but advanced CoA. Stop.
Ryou is just generic haki. Flow is simply covering yourself in armor. Hyou says both of these things. Zoro did not use any type of haki in Alabasta, unless you’re trying to argue that every time Zoro cut steel following the fight with Mr. 1, he was using haki, and not just haki, but advanced CoA. Stop.
No, you are the one who refuses facts so you can keep believing your own headcanon.
Hyogoro literally says that the power which comes from the body and flows into the sword is used when the swordsman wishes to cut nothing and Zoro back in Alabasta didnt cut tree leaves despite hitting them with a sharp sword. Did you miss that?
As I said, flow is not advanced Haki for Zoro, never has been from his point of view since he learned it before Hardening.
"...before haki even existed." Haki always existed. Wtf are you talking about?
Ryo is not just a generic name for Haki, same like Mantra isnt generic name for Haki. It is a name for a specific branch of Haki, just like Mantra. It is a name for haki flow because that's the type of Haki that samurai of Wano use.
Re-reading One Piece seems to be a must these days since headcanon is going wild.
Hyogoro literally says that the power which comes from the body and flows into the sword is used when the swordsman wishes to cut nothing and Zoro back in Alabasta didnt cut tree leaves despite hitting them with a sharp sword. Did you miss that?
As I said, flow is not advanced Haki for Zoro, never has been from his point of view since he learned it before Hardening.
"...before haki even existed." Haki always existed. Wtf are you talking about?
Ryo is not just a generic name for Haki, same like Mantra isnt generic name for Haki. It is a name for a specific branch of Haki, just like Mantra. It is a name for haki flow because that's the type of Haki that samurai of Wano use.
Re-reading One Piece seems to be a must these days since headcanon is going wild.
Koshiro and Hyogoro used the exact same words, it is the way for Oda to show that it is the same thing. There is absolutely no reason for Oda to do that except to let the reader understands that it is the same thing.
Now why Zoro did not beat Enel? Because Zoro thought that the power he unlocked was only there to cut steel and nothing more. He has no one to explain to him all the facets of the power.
Yeah, out-universe when Oda draw Zoro cutting Mr.1 he was probably not thinking that it was haki but the fact that he made Hyogoro and Koshiro used the exact same words means that he decides to tie the breath of thing into haki.
Now why Zoro did not beat Enel? Because Zoro thought that the power he unlocked was only there to cut steel and nothing more. He has no one to explain to him all the facets of the power.
Yeah, out-universe when Oda draw Zoro cutting Mr.1 he was probably not thinking that it was haki but the fact that he made Hyogoro and Koshiro used the exact same words means that he decides to tie the breath of thing into haki.
Are there still some people trying to say Zoro didn't use haki against Mr. 1 because Oda didn't call it that back during Alabasta. I guess they forgot what happened doing skypiea. Oda had characters using haki but he didn't call it that at the time.
It never cease to amaze me how much people with deny facts even when it's staring them in the face.
Remember, logia users (smoker) have existed since the beginning of one piece. So it is foolish for us to think Oda never thought of a way for characters to deal with that their ability from early on.
It never cease to amaze me how much people with deny facts even when it's staring them in the face.
Remember, logia users (smoker) have existed since the beginning of one piece. So it is foolish for us to think Oda never thought of a way for characters to deal with that their ability from early on.
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No, you are the one who refuses facts so you can keep believing your own headcanon.
Hyogoro literally says that the power which comes from the body and flows into the sword is used when the swordsman wishes to cut nothing and Zoro back in Alabasta didnt cut tree leaves despite hitting them with a sharp sword. Did you miss that?
As I said, flow is not advanced Haki for Zoro, never has been from his point of view since he learned it before Hardening.
"...before haki even existed." Haki always existed. Wtf are you talking about?
Ryo is not just a generic name for Haki, same like Mantra isnt generic name for Haki. It is a name for a specific branch of Haki, just like Mantra. It is a name for haki flow because that's the type of Haki that samurai of Wano use.
Re-reading One Piece seems to be a must these days since headcanon is going wild.
Hyogoro literally says that the power which comes from the body and flows into the sword is used when the swordsman wishes to cut nothing and Zoro back in Alabasta didnt cut tree leaves despite hitting them with a sharp sword. Did you miss that?
As I said, flow is not advanced Haki for Zoro, never has been from his point of view since he learned it before Hardening.
"...before haki even existed." Haki always existed. Wtf are you talking about?
Ryo is not just a generic name for Haki, same like Mantra isnt generic name for Haki. It is a name for a specific branch of Haki, just like Mantra. It is a name for haki flow because that's the type of Haki that samurai of Wano use.
Re-reading One Piece seems to be a must these days since headcanon is going wild.
Flow is not advanced haki for Zoro, correct, but only because flow is not advanced at all. It is just covering your body in haki, as Hyou states when he says that’s what he was trying to teach Luffy. That’s all it is.
Haki has not “always existed”. The very first mention of it was after Alabasta, not before, on Jaya from Blackbeard. The implication that Oda would have Zoro learn not only haki, but advanced haki, before Luffy at the very beginning of the series in a setting in which Luffy is the one fighting a logia and was the one who would have actually needed it is ridiculous.
Yes, Ryou is just haki. It’s just a generic name for haki. That’s it. That’s what Hyou said. Mantra is different, as it was specifically stated by Rayleigh to refer to CoO. Hyo did no such thing. He referred to Ryou as simply haki. He did not differentiate between CoO and CoA, and you can’t say that Hyo wasn’t aware of CoO as he recognized just prior that Luffy was able to see the future. He was talking about all haki.
Zoro was not using haki in Alabasta, neither normal or advanced CoA, and nothing now indicates that he can use advanced CoA at all.
Your understanding of this matter is way to low to understand this properly and you keep repeating your headcanon.Zoro not cutting leaves despite striking them means exactly that, that he used Haki flow. You cannot deny facts poking you in the eye.
Zoro had to be taught Hardening, not Haki flow. Dont twist facts to fit your headcanon.
What Zoro learned during Alabasta he associated it with cutting steel and he had no teacher between Alabasta and Skypiea to explain him what it is useful for and Enel wasn't steel, was he? Your entire Zoro and Enel argument is the fruition of your headcanon, nothing to do with facts. I am trying to retcon things to fit my headcanon? Did you read with one eye what Hyogoro explained?
Haki flow is not advanced Haki for Zoro, for Luffy is, he called Haki blasting advanced, facts from the manga. Flow and Hardening are independent of each other, one does not require the other.
Haki always existed, I ask you again, wtf are you talking about? Did you forget Shanks using CoC in the very first chapter of One Piece?
Again, Zoro didnt learn advanced Haki because flow isnt advanced, just a different branch of CoA independent of Hardening... You are hating so much on it because Zoro used it before Luffy, that is the only problem, your hate.
No, Ryo isnt generic name for Haki. Mantra isnt either. They are names for specific branches of Haki. Where have you seen samurais describing CoO or CoC as Ryo?
Yes, Zoro used Haki flow back in Alabasta. Tree leaves not being cut > your headcanon. End of story.
I dunno man, clearly the comparison between paper and steel by two characters who have obvious connections to Wano, who both mention the ability to cut what a swordsman wants to cut...obviously they're two different things.
Also gotta ignore Zoro, Ryuma, and Hyogoro mentioning "goken"...all three having connections to Wano..
The reason I bring in Ryuma is because one of the One Piece magazines, published back in May, mentioned that Ryuma's swordsmanship inspired the people of Wano to develop techniques to cut fire and steel, like he was able to do.
...I don't think there's any connection. :laughmoji:
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This is the mistake that you continue to make. You're saying that because Zoro wasn't told what haki is he couldn't have used it. That's wrong.
In Wano they don't even call it haki. It's called ryuo. That means samurais could use haki (and they do) and never realize it become they know haki under a different name. Knowing a technique under a different name doesn't mean you can't or haven't performed the technique before.
Mantra is not different. Instead Oda saying BOAT (or whatever you want to call it) is haki he explained it in a different way. He had two characters explained the exact same thing the exact same way. The most interesting thing about it is neither characters refers to it as haki. Hyou calls it Ryuo.
In Wano they don't even call it haki. It's called ryuo. That means samurais could use haki (and they do) and never realize it become they know haki under a different name. Knowing a technique under a different name doesn't mean you can't or haven't performed the technique before.
Mantra is not different. Instead Oda saying BOAT (or whatever you want to call it) is haki he explained it in a different way. He had two characters explained the exact same thing the exact same way. The most interesting thing about it is neither characters refers to it as haki. Hyou calls it Ryuo.
No, I’m not. I’m saying that he didn’t use haki period, not that he couldn’t have used it because he wasn’t told what it was. You guys are pushing a fallacy that using haki equates to cutting steel. Zoro cut Daz, made of steel. Later, in Water 7, Zoro cut the sea train. Even later, in Thriller Bark, Zoro cut Kuma. All three instances in which he cut steel. However, when Zoro met Enel on Skypeia, and Aokiji just before Water 7, and Kizaru on Sabaody, while having the ability to cut steel (which you guys again are assigning as haki), he could do nothing to them. Unless you’re suggesting he dumbed down his attacks, then he was not using haki when fighting them.
He did not use haki on Alabasta, nor was it some advanced type of haki. He was simply learning a basic way to cut, which is probably the beginning stage of attempting to learn haki later.
Mantra is different than Ryou in that Rayleigh assigned Mantra to a specific branch of haki, whereas Hyo states that Ryou is simply haki. Not a specific branch, but haki in general.
He did not use haki on Alabasta, nor was it some advanced type of haki. He was simply learning a basic way to cut, which is probably the beginning stage of attempting to learn haki later.
Mantra is different than Ryou in that Rayleigh assigned Mantra to a specific branch of haki, whereas Hyo states that Ryou is simply haki. Not a specific branch, but haki in general.
So there's a difference between Zoro's Wano-inspired Sensei's version of steel cutting and Ryuo, which is what allows the swordsmen of Wano to cut steel? How was Zoro able to cut a rock and not cut a leaf with the same sword, IE cut what he wanted to, if he wasn't using the same thing Hyo was talking about?
Apparently there is, given that Zoro could not use haki before the timeskip but could after.
Oh, which is why when Zoro was going up against Enel, Aokiji, and Kizaru pre-timeskip, he was able to affect them even slightly, given that he had the ability to cut steel, which is equivalent to using haki, and was using it consistently throughout the story from the time he beat Daz to the time they all got separated. Must have missed that.
Oh, which is why when Zoro was going up against Enel, Aokiji, and Kizaru pre-timeskip, he was able to affect them even slightly, given that he had the ability to cut steel, which is equivalent to using haki, and was using it consistently throughout the story from the time he beat Daz to the time they all got separated. Must have missed that.