Character Discussion Fujitora vs GreenBull: More than meets the eyes | Deeper look at Aramaki's Ideology
- Thread starter Xione
- Start date
Very good thread!
The possibility is definitely there and seems logical that Aramaki is playing an act here.
I never understood why people were calling him a CD fanboy, because all he said was how the world works in OP and how the majority of the population see‘s the CD‘s. And i remember i actually really like that when i read the chapter, because he went straight to the point and just said it how it is. That is just being realistic and seeing the world with open eyes.
But this whole situation at MJ would actually explain how the RA could have even escaped from Fuji and Aramaki - because logicaly speaking there is no way they would be able to on their own. So Fuji and Aramaki doing this act to let the slaves and RA escape makes sense to me.
Akainu is also someone who doesn’t approve the BS the WG is doing, as seen in his dialogue with the Gorosei after Doflamingo‘s fall and how they let him do all of that. Which would also explain why Fujitora didn’t get punished by Akainu for letting the slaves escape - atleast there is nothing pointing to that for now. We have to see how the flashbacks is gonna proceed and if there is gonna be some more informations.
The possibility is definitely there and seems logical that Aramaki is playing an act here.
I never understood why people were calling him a CD fanboy, because all he said was how the world works in OP and how the majority of the population see‘s the CD‘s. And i remember i actually really like that when i read the chapter, because he went straight to the point and just said it how it is. That is just being realistic and seeing the world with open eyes.
But this whole situation at MJ would actually explain how the RA could have even escaped from Fuji and Aramaki - because logicaly speaking there is no way they would be able to on their own. So Fuji and Aramaki doing this act to let the slaves and RA escape makes sense to me.
Akainu is also someone who doesn’t approve the BS the WG is doing, as seen in his dialogue with the Gorosei after Doflamingo‘s fall and how they let him do all of that. Which would also explain why Fujitora didn’t get punished by Akainu for letting the slaves escape - atleast there is nothing pointing to that for now. We have to see how the flashbacks is gonna proceed and if there is gonna be some more informations.
Absolute Justice like most higher ups, but Onigumo himself is just unnecessarily cruel
Here are his character highlights
Here are his character highlights
Invest in Onigumo stocks, MarineHQ's strongest vice admiral
-Vice Admiral in command of the buster call on Ohara
-Vice Admiral in command of Ace's escort fleet and personally recieved him from Magellan
-Neg diffs Marco while hittin a blunt
Onigumo supremacy
-Vice Admiral in command of the buster call on Ohara
-Vice Admiral in command of Ace's escort fleet and personally recieved him from Magellan
-Neg diffs Marco while hittin a blunt
Onigumo supremacy
Stupid justice
the guy can’t even stand a subordinate saying his piece
I understand somewhat punishment for quitting in the middle of a war or something but Onigumo shooting his guy his man for just giving his opinion in front of a totally stupid decision just shows Onigumo has tiny little balls and needs to overcompensate
the guy can’t even stand a subordinate saying his piece
I understand somewhat punishment for quitting in the middle of a war or something but Onigumo shooting his guy his man for just giving his opinion in front of a totally stupid decision just shows Onigumo has tiny little balls and needs to overcompensate
Hey what's going on everybody. With the recent chapter coming in and the events between the admirals unfolding on-screen, I feel like this is a good opportunity for me to build upon my previous takes on GB & Fuji, along with taking an in-depth look at Aramaki's actual ideology so far in the series. So going along with that, let's address the ideology first before we get into the recent fight between the Admirals.
Aramaki's Ideology:
Aramaki by the fandom at large is viewed as a character who is pro-Celestial Dragon, an Akainu fanboy, a CD lover, a CD dog, etc etc. With the common acceptance being he believes it's fine to commit genocide, other mfs got no rights, and so on. All of this of course stems from the event that took place in Wano between Aramaki & The Wano fighters. But is that really Aramki's ideology? Let's take a look.
GB notices the samurai in front of him. He tells them to not try and stop him, seeing that they all came to get in his way.
In response to Aramaki's warning, what do the samurai do? Expose themselves to be Luffy's friends.
To which GB then says alright so y'all know about me and what I am.. bet. And then explains to them that they don't have Marine protection as they're not under the World Government. And his statement of CD are the gods of the world, isn't some personal belief of his. That's literally how vast amount of the population views the Celestial Dragons (hence the treatment they get). So he's flat out on the get go, letting them know that by defending Luffy, they're about to fuck with the gods of the world, the CD.
He further continues with expanding on how humanity has creating and defined the inferior & superior. That rest of the world can look down on the unaffiliated countries, thus discrimination creates solace. Because humanity uses discrimination for their own comfort. Then he tells them how he'd kill thousands if he has to in order to reach Luffy.
As the fight continues to fold, he ends up restraining all of the Samurai, after getting some of Raizo's nutrients but not killing him:
But what does he do after restraining them? Does he kill them? Does he try and absorb their nutrients, despite them all being restrained? NOPE. He holds them in place and talks to them. He's like yo y'all can't match me... and why don't y'all get it that Kaido's influence was what kept me from coming here.
Now what does our dear genocidal CD loving freak do after to the samurai despite having them completely restrained? Oh.. he tells the samurai.. yo just go and bring me Luffy, i'll take his head and be on my way.
On one hand GreenBull is telling the samurai "AHAHAHAAH OHHH I'LL KILL THOUSANDS OF YALL TO GET LUFFY!!! JUST TRY AND STOP ME AHAHAH!!!"... on the other hand after having them completely restrained he's saying "Yo bro listen, just go and get me Luffy and i'll be on my way". But then that begs the question why is he saying all that shit about discrimination and genociding mfs and CD shit at the start?
Well you see the reality is that GB isn't some CD lover, he isn't some genocidal freak. Rather he actually doesn't to kill people if he doesn't have to. Let's review the sequence here:
-> He comes there to capture a criminal who allied with Kid & Law, and now was declared a yonko aka tryna do his job
-> He warns the Samurai to not get in his way
-> Samurai express loyalty to Luffy
-> He lets them know CD run the world and that Wano people have no rights for them, as they're not affiliated with the World Government... so he can slaughter any number of people he wants to get to Luffy.
-> Samurai continue fighting him
-> He restrains the samurai and lectures them on how Kaido kept them safe from people like himself.
-> He then gives them the option to bring him Luffy and he'd just leave after he whoops on Luffy
-> He CONTINUES restraining them casually, waiting on them to make a choice while they go about chatting.
To me is nothing more than him trying to let the Samurai know the shit they'd be getting themselves into if they tried to oppose him. He's hoping the Samurai would back off from all the shit he just spewed about the world outside cause he knows they're a country with limited outside knowledge. Like every single thing he said wasn't anything but the reality of the world outside of Wano. You have CD who look down the on the world, you have nobles who look down on others, you have nations trying to get into the WG which is constituted as "the world". The shit he said about the CD being gods, the human rights by law, etc etc... all of it was true. Humankind in one piece did create discrimination as a means of solace, CD are revered as Gods, countries outside of the WG don't have "human rights" by the law that the marines have to follow.
But his intimidation didn't work. The samurai wanted to fight, so he then displayed power to them and proceeded to restrain them. While restraining them he gives them another chance to just let him do his job, once he's done it he'll leave as he came. Even waits a good while and watching them discuss what they want to do.
^^^ Compare the above actions of GB to Kizaru in Film Red giving 0 fucks about civilian causalities. Onigumo blasting down a warship full of hundreds of marines without a 2nd thought. Onigumo flat out kills a marine for questioning his order on that. Akainu no thought in mind slaughtering marines for abandoning and then no thoughts given about to put down Koby or the Ohara ship incident with civilians.... pretty big difference aye?
... and with this in mind let's proceed to the recent fight.
Fujitora vs GreenBull at Mariejois:
So after the above, where Oda showcases GB's restraint on wanting to kill people, despite putting up a façade of a scary genocidal freak initially. We are then in the story exposed to the fact Aramaki & Issho had a fight at Mariejois where GB got mad at Fujitora helping out the CD slaves escape and thus they fought. This is information given to us by CP0.
But is it really as simple as GB just getting mad and clashing down against Fujitora? Well let's take a look at GB's introduction to the series. The biggest "Akainu fanboy" flat out just ignores Akainu's order and decides to chill with Fujitora.
He even asks about how "Old Vegapunk" was doing.. implying a connection between him & VP.
Fujitora asks him about the fast and if he was still in the middle of it, even asking him to try the food and what not. Implying they already are well connected to each other. Note: We never saw the Logia trio interact in this manner of buddy buddies, with a vibe of openness and just chilling out.
Point being that they have a solid connection with each other. Just as how GB put on his facade with the samurai, Fujitora in dressrosa put a facade of his own with Sabo. Where he gave the impression to the marines that he tried to capture him, but he couldn't.
Now going back to the fight, we have a situation where Fujitora is helping the slaves escape with the RA, right in middle of the CD home. Oh My God... an admiral directly helping the release of CD slaves... HMMMMMMM...... oh but wait there's another admiral who's setting him straight and fighting Fujitora, while CP0 & CD are right there to look at them.... HMMMMMM...... oh would you look at that days later Fujitora is still an admiral and discussing future of the marines with Akainu... and GB is out there tryna impress Akainu... HMMMMMM... they weren't punished? CD didn't call Fujitora a traitor? Admiral vs Admiral didn't make major news? HMMMM...
Keep in mind the person who told us about the fight and why it occurred was a CP0 agent, people who the leader of the marines called "puppets of the celestial dragons". And they watched it from far away. So to them, Aramaki fought against Fuji because he got mad. But based on what we know about Aramaki in his introduction + his acts at Wano, does it seem like Aramaki would start fighting Fujitora just cause he's got mad, when he ignored an Akainu order initially that was about forcing Fujitora out of Mariejois? HMMMM Yea buddy I don't think so.
In my humble opinion, it was nothing more than a false charade of accountability by the two. Where Fujitora accomplished his goal, while Aramaki acted "accountable" to Fujitora's "indirect" actions helping out the RA escape with the slaves. That way Fujitora can slide by with yo another admiral held his actions accountable, so he'll be punished by the Marines for his actions that indirectly helped the slaves. Why? Because you can't have two admirals just letting the RA go, you need some sort of a charade to happen while also being convincing for the CD and government officials.
Now to be clear I'm not saying that GB also wanted to help the slaves escape, no. I'm saying after Fujitora's indirect actions resulted in that, GB & him put up a fake ass fight so the Marines look like they're holding themselves accountable. That GB wasn't actually mad at Fujitora and fought him for that reason "omg why you helping CD slaves escape grrrr im so mad we gone fight now!!!"... like no.. That's not with GB's character that's established prior to this.
Conclusion:
So yea I don't think it was a serious fight, I think it was just another Fujitora act co-staring Aramaki, where Fujitora gets to slide by as little punishment as he could, while Aramaki looks accountable and responsible for getting at Fujitora about it due to his indirect actions leading to freeing of the slaves.
Aramaki himself is actually somebody who has an ideology that we haven't be told about yet, he has an actual goal for which he joined the marines that we don't know about yet. And Aramaki does not like pointlessly killing people to capture criminals, rather he's way more "sane" compared to some of the marines who were in the marines before him pre-TS.
Good Man Aramaki, Have Faith.
Aramaki's Ideology:
Aramaki by the fandom at large is viewed as a character who is pro-Celestial Dragon, an Akainu fanboy, a CD lover, a CD dog, etc etc. With the common acceptance being he believes it's fine to commit genocide, other mfs got no rights, and so on. All of this of course stems from the event that took place in Wano between Aramaki & The Wano fighters. But is that really Aramki's ideology? Let's take a look.
GB notices the samurai in front of him. He tells them to not try and stop him, seeing that they all came to get in his way.
In response to Aramaki's warning, what do the samurai do? Expose themselves to be Luffy's friends.
To which GB then says alright so y'all know about me and what I am.. bet. And then explains to them that they don't have Marine protection as they're not under the World Government. And his statement of CD are the gods of the world, isn't some personal belief of his. That's literally how vast amount of the population views the Celestial Dragons (hence the treatment they get). So he's flat out on the get go, letting them know that by defending Luffy, they're about to fuck with the gods of the world, the CD.
He further continues with expanding on how humanity has creating and defined the inferior & superior. That rest of the world can look down on the unaffiliated countries, thus discrimination creates solace. Because humanity uses discrimination for their own comfort. Then he tells them how he'd kill thousands if he has to in order to reach Luffy.
As the fight continues to fold, he ends up restraining all of the Samurai, after getting some of Raizo's nutrients but not killing him:
But what does he do after restraining them? Does he kill them? Does he try and absorb their nutrients, despite them all being restrained? NOPE. He holds them in place and talks to them. He's like yo y'all can't match me... and why don't y'all get it that Kaido's influence was what kept me from coming here.
Now what does our dear genocidal CD loving freak do after to the samurai despite having them completely restrained? Oh.. he tells the samurai.. yo just go and bring me Luffy, i'll take his head and be on my way.
On one hand GreenBull is telling the samurai "AHAHAHAAH OHHH I'LL KILL THOUSANDS OF YALL TO GET LUFFY!!! JUST TRY AND STOP ME AHAHAH!!!"... on the other hand after having them completely restrained he's saying "Yo bro listen, just go and get me Luffy and i'll be on my way". But then that begs the question why is he saying all that shit about discrimination and genociding mfs and CD shit at the start?
Well you see the reality is that GB isn't some CD lover, he isn't some genocidal freak. Rather he actually doesn't to kill people if he doesn't have to. Let's review the sequence here:
-> He comes there to capture a criminal who allied with Kid & Law, and now was declared a yonko aka tryna do his job
-> He warns the Samurai to not get in his way
-> Samurai express loyalty to Luffy
-> He lets them know CD run the world and that Wano people have no rights for them, as they're not affiliated with the World Government... so he can slaughter any number of people he wants to get to Luffy.
-> Samurai continue fighting him
-> He restrains the samurai and lectures them on how Kaido kept them safe from people like himself.
-> He then gives them the option to bring him Luffy and he'd just leave after he whoops on Luffy
-> He CONTINUES restraining them casually, waiting on them to make a choice while they go about chatting.
To me is nothing more than him trying to let the Samurai know the shit they'd be getting themselves into if they tried to oppose him. He's hoping the Samurai would back off from all the shit he just spewed about the world outside cause he knows they're a country with limited outside knowledge. Like every single thing he said wasn't anything but the reality of the world outside of Wano. You have CD who look down the on the world, you have nobles who look down on others, you have nations trying to get into the WG which is constituted as "the world". The shit he said about the CD being gods, the human rights by law, etc etc... all of it was true. Humankind in one piece did create discrimination as a means of solace, CD are revered as Gods, countries outside of the WG don't have "human rights" by the law that the marines have to follow.
But his intimidation didn't work. The samurai wanted to fight, so he then displayed power to them and proceeded to restrain them. While restraining them he gives them another chance to just let him do his job, once he's done it he'll leave as he came. Even waits a good while and watching them discuss what they want to do.
^^^ Compare the above actions of GB to Kizaru in Film Red giving 0 fucks about civilian causalities. Onigumo blasting down a warship full of hundreds of marines without a 2nd thought. Onigumo flat out kills a marine for questioning his order on that. Akainu no thought in mind slaughtering marines for abandoning and then no thoughts given about to put down Koby or the Ohara ship incident with civilians.... pretty big difference aye?
... and with this in mind let's proceed to the recent fight.
Fujitora vs GreenBull at Mariejois:
So after the above, where Oda showcases GB's restraint on wanting to kill people, despite putting up a façade of a scary genocidal freak initially. We are then in the story exposed to the fact Aramaki & Issho had a fight at Mariejois where GB got mad at Fujitora helping out the CD slaves escape and thus they fought. This is information given to us by CP0.
But is it really as simple as GB just getting mad and clashing down against Fujitora? Well let's take a look at GB's introduction to the series. The biggest "Akainu fanboy" flat out just ignores Akainu's order and decides to chill with Fujitora.
He even asks about how "Old Vegapunk" was doing.. implying a connection between him & VP.
Fujitora asks him about the fast and if he was still in the middle of it, even asking him to try the food and what not. Implying they already are well connected to each other. Note: We never saw the Logia trio interact in this manner of buddy buddies, with a vibe of openness and just chilling out.
Point being that they have a solid connection with each other. Just as how GB put on his facade with the samurai, Fujitora in dressrosa put a facade of his own with Sabo. Where he gave the impression to the marines that he tried to capture him, but he couldn't.
Now going back to the fight, we have a situation where Fujitora is helping the slaves escape with the RA, right in middle of the CD home. Oh My God... an admiral directly helping the release of CD slaves... HMMMMMMM...... oh but wait there's another admiral who's setting him straight and fighting Fujitora, while CP0 & CD are right there to look at them.... HMMMMMM...... oh would you look at that days later Fujitora is still an admiral and discussing future of the marines with Akainu... and GB is out there tryna impress Akainu... HMMMMMM... they weren't punished? CD didn't call Fujitora a traitor? Admiral vs Admiral didn't make major news? HMMMM...
Keep in mind the person who told us about the fight and why it occurred was a CP0 agent, people who the leader of the marines called "puppets of the celestial dragons". And they watched it from far away. So to them, Aramaki fought against Fuji because he got mad. But based on what we know about Aramaki in his introduction + his acts at Wano, does it seem like Aramaki would start fighting Fujitora just cause he's got mad, when he ignored an Akainu order initially that was about forcing Fujitora out of Mariejois? HMMMM Yea buddy I don't think so.
In my humble opinion, it was nothing more than a false charade of accountability by the two. Where Fujitora accomplished his goal, while Aramaki acted "accountable" to Fujitora's "indirect" actions helping out the RA escape with the slaves. That way Fujitora can slide by with yo another admiral held his actions accountable, so he'll be punished by the Marines for his actions that indirectly helped the slaves. Why? Because you can't have two admirals just letting the RA go, you need some sort of a charade to happen while also being convincing for the CD and government officials.
Now to be clear I'm not saying that GB also wanted to help the slaves escape, no. I'm saying after Fujitora's indirect actions resulted in that, GB & him put up a fake ass fight so the Marines look like they're holding themselves accountable. That GB wasn't actually mad at Fujitora and fought him for that reason "omg why you helping CD slaves escape grrrr im so mad we gone fight now!!!"... like no.. That's not with GB's character that's established prior to this.
Conclusion:
So yea I don't think it was a serious fight, I think it was just another Fujitora act co-staring Aramaki, where Fujitora gets to slide by as little punishment as he could, while Aramaki looks accountable and responsible for getting at Fujitora about it due to his indirect actions leading to freeing of the slaves.
Aramaki himself is actually somebody who has an ideology that we haven't be told about yet, he has an actual goal for which he joined the marines that we don't know about yet. And Aramaki does not like pointlessly killing people to capture criminals, rather he's way more "sane" compared to some of the marines who were in the marines before him pre-TS.
Good Man Aramaki, Have Faith.
Also nice catch on his familiarity with Vegapunk, I never noticed that. I wonder what connection they have?
@Seth @Elder Lee Hung check out this thread guys
Great Thread ... I also think there's more to his character, I like how you highlighted the fact that they seemingly know each other very well.. like Issho knew Aramaki was fasting and Aramaki knew Issho went to see Vegapunk...personally I have never seen the C3 have This type of interactions.
It must be a façade, he looks like he is only telling people Hard truth with a menacing tone.
In Sphinx Island when them kids were telling Marco about evil Marines who attacked the village they only mentionned Ratel and not Aramaki..
Tho I dont want him to switch side or be a Luffy fanboy.. I think he still have potential to be a more complex and interesting villain.
It must be a façade, he looks like he is only telling people Hard truth with a menacing tone.
In Sphinx Island when them kids were telling Marco about evil Marines who attacked the village they only mentionned Ratel and not Aramaki..
Tho I dont want him to switch side or be a Luffy fanboy.. I think he still have potential to be a more complex and interesting villain.
so i've been thinking... if @Xione is right and aramaki and issho are in cahoots, then it means we get another coin to put in the evil!shanks piggy bank, yes?
shanks bullied the guy who's playing the bad cop to issho's good cop. shanks is a CD and aramaki at least expressed some desire to fight him in the future... which wouldn't make sense if aramaki believed the CD supremacy is a good thing.
now i'm waiting for the great sage of the new admirals to return from his banishment so that he could shed some light on these matters
shanks bullied the guy who's playing the bad cop to issho's good cop. shanks is a CD and aramaki at least expressed some desire to fight him in the future... which wouldn't make sense if aramaki believed the CD supremacy is a good thing.
now i'm waiting for the great sage of the new admirals to return from his banishment so that he could shed some light on these matters
that would be a literal GODa moment
Post automatically merged:
so i've been thinking... if @Xione is right and aramaki and issho are in cahoots, then it means we get another coin to put in the evil!shanks piggy bank, yes?
shanks bullied the guy who's playing the bad cop to issho's good cop. shanks is a CD and aramaki at least expressed some desire to fight him in the future... which wouldn't make sense if aramaki believed the CD supremacy is a good thing.
now i'm waiting for the great sage of the new admirals to return from his banishment so that he could shed some light on these matters
shanks bullied the guy who's playing the bad cop to issho's good cop. shanks is a CD and aramaki at least expressed some desire to fight him in the future... which wouldn't make sense if aramaki believed the CD supremacy is a good thing.
now i'm waiting for the great sage of the new admirals to return from his banishment so that he could shed some light on these matters
His justice is unclear to me at the moment as to what it could possibly mean, some are translating it as deadly justice others as determined justice. And even then, it's not exactly something that's clear in meaning similar to how Sengoku has "reigning justice".
But with the implied things about his past based on the tattoo, he could have a very dark past related to his justice viewpoint, but I don't believe this turns him into a negative or evil person like Doberman/Onigumo/Saka, where he'd slaughter non-criminals or anything.
We still have the fact that the CP0 told us that Fujitora helped free the slaves and GreenBull "turned on him".
However, weeks after the event, Tensei & Sakazuki believe that the reason the RA escaped is because the two weren't able to showcase their full power, not because one helped the other. And keep in mind Tensei is the director of the investigative unit.
So that gives us these :
1st. MAYBE CP0 members who saw the event go down (the handful of the old CP9 members), didn't report it, because the it was probably a minor clash.
2nd. GreenBull himself didn't report it to the marine hq, despite being labeled a "akainu fanboy" by the fandom and Fujitora blatantly siding with the enemy.
3rd. In the even CP0 did report it, GB & Fuji more than likely somehow played it off with an excuse.
But nonetheless, GB despite having stated to have "turned on Fujitora"... didn't snitch out Fujitora. I still believe there's more to that fight than meets the eyes, because keep in mind the character description that we got of him, with giving Scabbards a chance to live and just back off multiple times, despite his threats.. is all happening after the reverie.
Now, let's suppose his justice is related to "deadly justice" rather than "determined justice". I think that would simply be focused on killing heinous criminals not related to civilians or "good people".