Current Events The raid on Onigashima will undoubtedly fail
- Thread starter PuckTheGreat
- Start date
Besides Kaido and Big Mom have most surely not shown the true nature of their power, what we saw from them is only the visible face of the Iceberg. Kaido will most likely reveal his hybrid form and use it to wreck Luffy and the others again.
I also have the feeling that Big Mom will not be dealt with the usual violent way and that Tama may somehow manage to pacify the "beast" inside her.
I also have the feeling that Big Mom will not be dealt with the usual violent way and that Tama may somehow manage to pacify the "beast" inside her.
J
Kaido isn't getting beaten at Onigashima
Orochi and Yamato might fall there, Queen is definetely getting beaten but not rocks duo
Kaido downfall will happen 2 weeks later in Wano.
Tama powers will be used, everyone in Wano will witness Kaido defeat.
Kidd Luffy will sentenced to die publicly at Flower Capital, that's When they get bailed out.
Orochi and Yamato might fall there, Queen is definetely getting beaten but not rocks duo
Kaido downfall will happen 2 weeks later in Wano.
Tama powers will be used, everyone in Wano will witness Kaido defeat.
Kidd Luffy will sentenced to die publicly at Flower Capital, that's When they get bailed out.
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Now i think they could fail , but they also could achieve partial victory . there are arguments for the latter , like we saw how 10 people
( Oden and Scabbards ) fared pretty good against 1000 ( Kaido King Queen etc. ) until the hostage .
could happen here again to achieve partial victory
except here the numbers ratio is better
( 5200 against 30.000+ ) . and Minks will have Sulong , and not counting Neko and what he brought yet
the 80 build up chapters also is an argument
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also looking at some of the major fighters in the good alliance :
- Sanji could be on Queen's lvl already with RS + DJ .
yes the battle with Page1 wasn't that one sided ( maybe not as 1 sided as Queen vs Page1 would in your expectation ) but Sanji didn't use DJ . also Page1 was completely clueless on where Sanji was when he put RS on . and was screaming in pain after hits from Sanji whereas Sanji was fine
so it can be argued that Sanji was actually looking significantly better than P1 , and would look even better had he used DJ
- Zoro . his post ts Ashura mode is still saved until now that .... Oda can make him
( slightly ) stronger than King with it if he wanted to
- Jinbe . ok he is normally below ( Hybrid ) Jack , but with a large body of water ( which is present in Onigashima ) his chance will be higher
( Oden and Scabbards ) fared pretty good against 1000 ( Kaido King Queen etc. ) until the hostage .
could happen here again to achieve partial victory
except here the numbers ratio is better
( 5200 against 30.000+ ) . and Minks will have Sulong , and not counting Neko and what he brought yet
the 80 build up chapters also is an argument
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also looking at some of the major fighters in the good alliance :
- Sanji could be on Queen's lvl already with RS + DJ .
yes the battle with Page1 wasn't that one sided ( maybe not as 1 sided as Queen vs Page1 would in your expectation ) but Sanji didn't use DJ . also Page1 was completely clueless on where Sanji was when he put RS on . and was screaming in pain after hits from Sanji whereas Sanji was fine
so it can be argued that Sanji was actually looking significantly better than P1 , and would look even better had he used DJ
- Zoro . his post ts Ashura mode is still saved until now that .... Oda can make him
( slightly ) stronger than King with it if he wanted to
- Jinbe . ok he is normally below ( Hybrid ) Jack , but with a large body of water ( which is present in Onigashima ) his chance will be higher
J
Yes and Sulong won't help against Hax users who can easily trap them whether they fully go Sulong or not.
All carrot could do is destroy ships not even do a thing to Daifuku.
There is nothing making alliance win at Onigashima even if Marco and Navy came there
It started at Wano, it will end at Wano.
I can even see Kaido and BM going out for 2 weeks to take over Elbaf or cause havoc then return to Wano 2 weeks later to execute Kidd and Luffy
All carrot could do is destroy ships not even do a thing to Daifuku.
There is nothing making alliance win at Onigashima even if Marco and Navy came there
It started at Wano, it will end at Wano.
I can even see Kaido and BM going out for 2 weeks to take over Elbaf or cause havoc then return to Wano 2 weeks later to execute Kidd and Luffy
Y'all make some pretty valid arguments ^^.
I also wouldn't like to see the arc being dragged again as a result of the alliance failing but I think whether or not it'd feel that way will all depend on the way Oda executes it. Like some of y'all have already suggested, the alliance could gain a partial victory against the antagonist forces in the sense that they take out a significant portion of their numbers. I reckon the minks Sulong will be a deciding factor here. With regards to significantly trimming down the numbers of the Shinuchi and below. Oda's also been giving the flying six a lot of build up and hype for a bit now and oddly enough the Numbers are still shrouded in mystery. So maybe Oda will have the alliance take out the a significant number of the Shinuchi, Orochi's army (i.e. the oniwaban and the mimawarigumi ) and the flying six during the Onigashima raid and then reserve the numbers and the rest of Kaidou's main card deck, Orochi and then Lilin's group for the mainland. Or maybe even the majority of Lilin's crew get taking out too leaving only the strongest members.
Currently the plot point that sticks out the most on Onigashima is "Yamato's retrieval" and a few chapters ago, we saw a mysterious figure shadowing Jinbe and Robin so if that's yamato and the earlier two make contact with him, Oda could then potentially create a plot point where we have the Flying Six engage the alliance first.
I think if we get some exciting pre-climax battles on Onigashima, it'd be fine even if we got the climax battles on Wano mainland. Y'all gotta remember that we are still in act 3 and there are still 2 more acts to go. Act 4 is the act which is supposed to feature the climax battles going by the Kabuki theme and Oda is not gonna just switch to act 4 without any significant developments so imo it makes sense for act 3 to end with the alliance's defeat and the act 4 to begin with some sorta execution in the capital for example. Moreover Hawkins predicted that Luffy and Zoro particular had a 19% chance of survival in one month's time so that I think could potentially come up (@Jo_Ndule I take it back...lolz I know I argued against this particular point with u recently :p).
Lastly to make this fight against Kaidou legendary, which it should, I feel like it has to happen in front the Wano folk. Stuff like Zoro cutting down a dragon in the capital (personally think it'd be king and not Kaidou...lolz but hey it's just opinion :p) and Luffy defeating Kaidou.
Also we still haven't seen the calamites or even Kaidou properly fight yet. Feel like they are gonna have to get hype at some point and that is gonna happen on Onigashima ^^.
Btw, I think this is gonna happen in some shape of form, be it Kaidou or Lilin destroying the moon or them using some kinda technique to cover it up ^^
I also wouldn't like to see the arc being dragged again as a result of the alliance failing but I think whether or not it'd feel that way will all depend on the way Oda executes it. Like some of y'all have already suggested, the alliance could gain a partial victory against the antagonist forces in the sense that they take out a significant portion of their numbers. I reckon the minks Sulong will be a deciding factor here. With regards to significantly trimming down the numbers of the Shinuchi and below. Oda's also been giving the flying six a lot of build up and hype for a bit now and oddly enough the Numbers are still shrouded in mystery. So maybe Oda will have the alliance take out the a significant number of the Shinuchi, Orochi's army (i.e. the oniwaban and the mimawarigumi ) and the flying six during the Onigashima raid and then reserve the numbers and the rest of Kaidou's main card deck, Orochi and then Lilin's group for the mainland. Or maybe even the majority of Lilin's crew get taking out too leaving only the strongest members.
Currently the plot point that sticks out the most on Onigashima is "Yamato's retrieval" and a few chapters ago, we saw a mysterious figure shadowing Jinbe and Robin so if that's yamato and the earlier two make contact with him, Oda could then potentially create a plot point where we have the Flying Six engage the alliance first.
I think if we get some exciting pre-climax battles on Onigashima, it'd be fine even if we got the climax battles on Wano mainland. Y'all gotta remember that we are still in act 3 and there are still 2 more acts to go. Act 4 is the act which is supposed to feature the climax battles going by the Kabuki theme and Oda is not gonna just switch to act 4 without any significant developments so imo it makes sense for act 3 to end with the alliance's defeat and the act 4 to begin with some sorta execution in the capital for example. Moreover Hawkins predicted that Luffy and Zoro particular had a 19% chance of survival in one month's time so that I think could potentially come up (@Jo_Ndule I take it back...lolz I know I argued against this particular point with u recently :p).
Lastly to make this fight against Kaidou legendary, which it should, I feel like it has to happen in front the Wano folk. Stuff like Zoro cutting down a dragon in the capital (personally think it'd be king and not Kaidou...lolz but hey it's just opinion :p) and Luffy defeating Kaidou.
Also we still haven't seen the calamites or even Kaidou properly fight yet. Feel like they are gonna have to get hype at some point and that is gonna happen on Onigashima ^^.
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Kaido when he see Sulong form Minks:
Goodbye Enel:
:cheers:
Goodbye Enel:
:cheers:
No it won’t fail. The fact that we need to have a tragedy before the end of third act shouldn’t be used to connect the dots of the failing Raid. We might have some tragedy end for third act like the death of someone we cared for or the devastating blow to the alliance. But it shouldn’t be the fail of the raid.
Here’s what will happen if the raid fails:
So after the fail of the raid, most of the Samurais will be placed back to Udon with half of them killed in the process. Red Scabbards are to be executed for Orochi’s satisfaction. Luffy will be served half and half to both Kaido and Big Mom as a souvenir. Kidd Pirates will be wiped out because they already got their chance to join Kaido earlier. SHs and Heart Pirates will be prisoned and tortured. And most importantly, I don’t see anyone coming to rescue them this time if they failed this raid. Revolutionaries are busy after their battle with WG at Reverie. SH grand fleet isn’t strong enough to invade Wano on their own to try and free them. Marco said he wont be joining the party and I believe he truly won’t. Neko alone isn’t gonna be enough to free them either. They will all be doomed on the enemy territory. I see no hope for them in that scenario.
Which leads me to believe that the Raid won’t fail. It will be halted and the obstruction will be bigger than what they expected but it surely won’t fail cause they cannot afford to fail it.
Here’s what will happen if the raid fails:
So after the fail of the raid, most of the Samurais will be placed back to Udon with half of them killed in the process. Red Scabbards are to be executed for Orochi’s satisfaction. Luffy will be served half and half to both Kaido and Big Mom as a souvenir. Kidd Pirates will be wiped out because they already got their chance to join Kaido earlier. SHs and Heart Pirates will be prisoned and tortured. And most importantly, I don’t see anyone coming to rescue them this time if they failed this raid. Revolutionaries are busy after their battle with WG at Reverie. SH grand fleet isn’t strong enough to invade Wano on their own to try and free them. Marco said he wont be joining the party and I believe he truly won’t. Neko alone isn’t gonna be enough to free them either. They will all be doomed on the enemy territory. I see no hope for them in that scenario.
Which leads me to believe that the Raid won’t fail. It will be halted and the obstruction will be bigger than what they expected but it surely won’t fail cause they cannot afford to fail it.
I thought the Raid was doomed to fail the moment back in chapter 920, when Kinemon stated that even with gathering the 5000+ men he "doesn't want an open war" and this is designed to be a precision raid to take out the heads of the enemy leaders, namely Orochi and Kaidou.
Some argue that too much has been invested for the raid to fail. In-verse the flashbacks shows the tragedy of Oden and Wano and the burning desire of the Scabbards and the people for Onigashima to succeed. The Scabbards march on under the sun, determined to avenge their lord. The Samurai scupper their ships, intent on never leaving till they succeed or die trying. Oda shows us in 70 chapers of Wano just what the stakes are. The people pin all their hopes, 20 years of suffering, Yasuie's sacrifice. All of this, and more. The Raid has to succeed. It just has to.
Couple that with the SH's growing in power. Luffy training for a week. Kidd wanting vengeance, Law scheming. Hawkins potentially wavering (if he's still alive). And seeing how divided the loyalties of the Beast Pirates are along with Drake's obvious treachery. Speaking of which there is Big Mom and her crew around - wild cards who are no strangers to treachery and taking advantage of a situation. Especially if it could mean Big Mom taking down a rival. The Beast Pirates are rife for picking.
So yes, based on everything we've seen, it should be a slam dunk that the Raid will succeed, surely? Oda won't undo all the work put in by the good guys right? They cannot have setback, not this deep in the arc. Some bemoan the prospect of the Wano Arcbeing extended even further if the Raid does fail.
But here's the thing. Back before the Timeskip we had a similar situation where everything was built-up to save Ace. Lufffy went through literal hell from the end of Amazon Lily onwards through Impel Down. Mr. Bon Clay (before Oda undid it all...le sigh) stayed behind, apparently sarificing himself so Luffy could save his brother. Back then, many thought Bon Clay's heroic sacrifice was all in vain.
The Whitebeard Pirates failed to save Ace. Whitebeard failed to save Ace and died as well. Luffy gathered allies and freed Ace, and still failed.
(Interestingly Wano has been an inverse of Marineford. Back then it was to 'save Ace'. Now, it's to 'kill/take the head of Kaidou/Orochi.')
That's why I believe the Raid failing was always meant to be. We get Narrator speak heavily implying the war will happen ('seas will split yaddda yadda'). Meaning the Raid will on some level, fail. Then everything goes out of control. Maybe a better way to put it though is that the Raid actually succeeds. Until the unforeseeable happens.
Similar to how it went down during the Tea Party. The plan worked, they destroyed the picture of Mother Carmel. But, no-one, fans or characters alike could have foreseen that Big Mom's scream was strong enough to destroy the VFX rockets launched at her while she was at her most vulnerable.
If the plan worked then Kaidou and Orochi get killed off and its all nicely contained on Onigashima. Right...
Some argue that too much has been invested for the raid to fail. In-verse the flashbacks shows the tragedy of Oden and Wano and the burning desire of the Scabbards and the people for Onigashima to succeed. The Scabbards march on under the sun, determined to avenge their lord. The Samurai scupper their ships, intent on never leaving till they succeed or die trying. Oda shows us in 70 chapers of Wano just what the stakes are. The people pin all their hopes, 20 years of suffering, Yasuie's sacrifice. All of this, and more. The Raid has to succeed. It just has to.
Couple that with the SH's growing in power. Luffy training for a week. Kidd wanting vengeance, Law scheming. Hawkins potentially wavering (if he's still alive). And seeing how divided the loyalties of the Beast Pirates are along with Drake's obvious treachery. Speaking of which there is Big Mom and her crew around - wild cards who are no strangers to treachery and taking advantage of a situation. Especially if it could mean Big Mom taking down a rival. The Beast Pirates are rife for picking.
So yes, based on everything we've seen, it should be a slam dunk that the Raid will succeed, surely? Oda won't undo all the work put in by the good guys right? They cannot have setback, not this deep in the arc. Some bemoan the prospect of the Wano Arcbeing extended even further if the Raid does fail.
But here's the thing. Back before the Timeskip we had a similar situation where everything was built-up to save Ace. Lufffy went through literal hell from the end of Amazon Lily onwards through Impel Down. Mr. Bon Clay (before Oda undid it all...le sigh) stayed behind, apparently sarificing himself so Luffy could save his brother. Back then, many thought Bon Clay's heroic sacrifice was all in vain.
The Whitebeard Pirates failed to save Ace. Whitebeard failed to save Ace and died as well. Luffy gathered allies and freed Ace, and still failed.
(Interestingly Wano has been an inverse of Marineford. Back then it was to 'save Ace'. Now, it's to 'kill/take the head of Kaidou/Orochi.')
That's why I believe the Raid failing was always meant to be. We get Narrator speak heavily implying the war will happen ('seas will split yaddda yadda'). Meaning the Raid will on some level, fail. Then everything goes out of control. Maybe a better way to put it though is that the Raid actually succeeds. Until the unforeseeable happens.
Similar to how it went down during the Tea Party. The plan worked, they destroyed the picture of Mother Carmel. But, no-one, fans or characters alike could have foreseen that Big Mom's scream was strong enough to destroy the VFX rockets launched at her while she was at her most vulnerable.
If the plan worked then Kaidou and Orochi get killed off and its all nicely contained on Onigashima. Right...