Powers & Abilities Zoro and the Scabbards
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1. Nobody knows who even tried to tame it, it's all assumptions, nothing concrete.
2. Potential =/= current level. Zoro has more potential than any of the scabbards can even dream of (and even Oden most likely), he didn't touch Enma and then magically master/ tame the blade, he was simply strong enough for him to not to be reduced to a "mere husk"
So if you want to guess Ashura Doji for example, ever held that blade, absolutely nothing indicates that he would collapse, and Hitetsu wasn't shocked in the slightest by Zoro being able to remain standing, the real test starts with who can actually tame the blade, and the edge would go to the guy who has much more potential and rate of growth. Give Zoro days of training and Ashura Doji, who do you think is more likely to tame the blade if both started off being unable to tame it? The dude whose level is capped vs the guy with tons of untapped potential? It's an easy answer.
Not to mention an assumption doesn't erase feats and concrete battle portrayal. We don't know who tried to tame the blade, for how long they tried etc. (for all we know Ashura Doji held the blade, it reacted the same way it did with Zoro and he decided he didn't want to deal with the trouble that comes with the blade). We do know the relative level of Ashura Doji, Cat/Dog thanks to Jack, and logically where Doflamingo, Luffy, Law, and Zoro fall in relation to that.
It's not that hard to choose between a mess of assumptions (who? what? where? when? how?) vs what we already know through battle feats and logical powerscaling. Also you didn't actually respond to any of my points to begin with (my claim that Zoro would have to be pretty much stronger than or ~ Doflamingo back in Dressrosa which doesn't make sense from a powerscaling perspective nor a storytelling perspective), the question you proposed doesn't counter or answer anything , only brings more questions into the mix, and that won't take us anywhere in a power level discussion.
2. Potential =/= current level. Zoro has more potential than any of the scabbards can even dream of (and even Oden most likely), he didn't touch Enma and then magically master/ tame the blade, he was simply strong enough for him to not to be reduced to a "mere husk"
So if you want to guess Ashura Doji for example, ever held that blade, absolutely nothing indicates that he would collapse, and Hitetsu wasn't shocked in the slightest by Zoro being able to remain standing, the real test starts with who can actually tame the blade, and the edge would go to the guy who has much more potential and rate of growth. Give Zoro days of training and Ashura Doji, who do you think is more likely to tame the blade if both started off being unable to tame it? The dude whose level is capped vs the guy with tons of untapped potential? It's an easy answer.
Not to mention an assumption doesn't erase feats and concrete battle portrayal. We don't know who tried to tame the blade, for how long they tried etc. (for all we know Ashura Doji held the blade, it reacted the same way it did with Zoro and he decided he didn't want to deal with the trouble that comes with the blade). We do know the relative level of Ashura Doji, Cat/Dog thanks to Jack, and logically where Doflamingo, Luffy, Law, and Zoro fall in relation to that.
It's not that hard to choose between a mess of assumptions (who? what? where? when? how?) vs what we already know through battle feats and logical powerscaling. Also you didn't actually respond to any of my points to begin with (my claim that Zoro would have to be pretty much stronger than or ~ Doflamingo back in Dressrosa which doesn't make sense from a powerscaling perspective nor a storytelling perspective), the question you proposed doesn't counter or answer anything , only brings more questions into the mix, and that won't take us anywhere in a power level discussion.
Lmaooo the most bizarre thing is suggesting Ashura Doji or dukes stand a chance against Enmaless Zoro who has Haki strong enough to tame a sword then none of them can. Not to mention Zoro's feats take a dump all over commander level *****, even Doffy who can't even sniff Zoro's AP or CoA.
Zoro with Enma mastery no diffs Ashura Doji while mid diffs him without it.
Zoro with Enma mastery no diffs Ashura Doji while mid diffs him without it.
I keep seeing people post the scabbards are to loyal to take oden swords because it belonged to
His kids. Well that’s brave of you to assume that they didn’t try to wield the sword beforehand and failed but that wouldn’t go along with your downplaying of zoro would it.
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Why would zoro the worst generation future worlds strongest swordsman be weaker then any samurai that’s in his side in the country of swordsman? Does that seem like Odas writing to you? He already tamed the kaido level sword and is getting praised by a wano sword smith that was there in the days of wano glory . This is zoros time bozos no cake baking over here
His kids. Well that’s brave of you to assume that they didn’t try to wield the sword beforehand and failed but that wouldn’t go along with your downplaying of zoro would it.
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Why would zoro the worst generation future worlds strongest swordsman be weaker then any samurai that’s in his side in the country of swordsman? Does that seem like Odas writing to you? He already tamed the kaido level sword and is getting praised by a wano sword smith that was there in the days of wano glory . This is zoros time bozos no cake baking over here
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Why would Oda make Hitetsu say that nobody tamed Enma if nobody even bothered trying? We don't get panels of Whitebeard/Kaido/Mihawk defeating every man/creature/swordsman, we're meant to take the title at face value - just like Hitetsu's statement, which is obviously meant to hype up Oden, Enma itself, and of course Zoro.
And we have no idea how Zoro would measure up against Doffy - Oda had a chance to show him getting owned like Law and Sanji did...but he put Fujitora in the way instead. While not a guarantee that Zoro was stronger than Doffy, it's apparent that Oda's saving Zoro's cap for a bigger stage. We haven't seen anything from Zoro's training with Mihawk, much less his EL power up, which Luffy and Sanji have been spamming like it's going out of style.
Also, Enma was obviously made 50 or more years before the events of Wano. That's a lot of time for people not named Oden to try it out.
And we have no idea how Zoro would measure up against Doffy - Oda had a chance to show him getting owned like Law and Sanji did...but he put Fujitora in the way instead. While not a guarantee that Zoro was stronger than Doffy, it's apparent that Oda's saving Zoro's cap for a bigger stage. We haven't seen anything from Zoro's training with Mihawk, much less his EL power up, which Luffy and Sanji have been spamming like it's going out of style.
Also, Enma was obviously made 50 or more years before the events of Wano. That's a lot of time for people not named Oden to try it out.
Didn't say nobody bothered trying, but do you know who did? Can you list them out? On top of that can you tell me when they did? Can you tell me Ashura Doji tried it at his current level (which he clearly said he got stronger over the years) or did he try it 5 years ago? 10? 15? 20?
We're talking about Current Ashura Doji are we not? The one we saw clash with Jack. I don't know when he got that strong, so why would I even bother diving into fanfic?
Where do we even start debating something so open ended? Is it gonna be my fanfic vs yours?
There's not much grounds to go off of, you're gonna continue holding on to this thin string claim for dear life VS mountains of feats, portrayal, and even statements. It's not really a hard decision to make here, unless you're trying to go out of your way to prep up a character you like? You're not giving me much of a choice but to think like that, because it's not even reasonable to go with the former vs the latter.
Odd comparison since this has nothing to do with titles or those situations.
Ofcourse, I agree completely. It hypes up Zoro. What it doesn't do however is somehow erase all the feats and portrayal we have to work with.
Zoro has more hype than all the scabbards as well, don't disagree with that either. Hype is simply one aspect.
Yes we do, we definitely have an idea, it's far from "no idea" and this is where we differ.
This is all I needed tbh, If you're willing to entertain Dressrosa Zoro > Doflamingo, then that's that. I got my answer. It's the first thing I posted. You either think Zoro grew massively since Dressrosa to Wano, or you believe he was above or ~ Mingo pretty much entering the timeskip.
Aside from common sense, diving into why Dressrosa Zoro was below Doflamingo is an entirely different discussion that I'm not trying to have here and now.
I think your sig is a bit small, could you upload a larger size? It's only taking up my whole screen lmao.
We're talking about Current Ashura Doji are we not? The one we saw clash with Jack. I don't know when he got that strong, so why would I even bother diving into fanfic?
Where do we even start debating something so open ended? Is it gonna be my fanfic vs yours?
There's not much grounds to go off of, you're gonna continue holding on to this thin string claim for dear life VS mountains of feats, portrayal, and even statements. It's not really a hard decision to make here, unless you're trying to go out of your way to prep up a character you like? You're not giving me much of a choice but to think like that, because it's not even reasonable to go with the former vs the latter.
Odd comparison since this has nothing to do with titles or those situations.
Ofcourse, I agree completely. It hypes up Zoro. What it doesn't do however is somehow erase all the feats and portrayal we have to work with.
Zoro has more hype than all the scabbards as well, don't disagree with that either. Hype is simply one aspect.
Yes we do, we definitely have an idea, it's far from "no idea" and this is where we differ.
This is all I needed tbh, If you're willing to entertain Dressrosa Zoro > Doflamingo, then that's that. I got my answer. It's the first thing I posted. You either think Zoro grew massively since Dressrosa to Wano, or you believe he was above or ~ Mingo pretty much entering the timeskip.
Aside from common sense, diving into why Dressrosa Zoro was below Doflamingo is an entirely different discussion that I'm not trying to have here and now.
I think your sig is a bit small, could you upload a larger size? It's only taking up my whole screen lmao.
The bigger it is, the better you'll see the Young Master and his queen.
Also, slight tangent, but the idea that pre-Enma Zoro ~ Doflamingo isn't so controversial. At least not for a lot of the Zoro community, with the idea that Zoro's been a Yonkou 2 since the time skip and on par with Doffy. I personally don't buy into it, but it's not like @Cyrus the Cactus is suggesting anything unheard of before.
Also, slight tangent, but the idea that pre-Enma Zoro ~ Doflamingo isn't so controversial. At least not for a lot of the Zoro community, with the idea that Zoro's been a Yonkou 2 since the time skip and on par with Doffy. I personally don't buy into it, but it's not like @Cyrus the Cactus is suggesting anything unheard of before.
Anyways
Current Luffy ~ Enma Zoro ~ Oden > King > Katakuri > Doffy ~ Pre Enma Zoro > Queen > Jack > Law ~ Dukes ~ 3 main samurai.
Zoro was equaling Kyoshiro while missing his strongest weapon and injured and Kyoshiro is at least Ashura Doji level, I'd say a lot stronger. Not to mention how casually he stopped Kawamatsu, Ashura Doji's equal who doesn't even have balls to wield Enma because he knows he will die if he does so as he basically jizzed his pants when Zoro did it.
If any of the samurai could tame Enma, they would tame Enma, because Kaido is on their ass. They are enslaved, their country is destroyed, they would do anything possible to take down Kaido. Just the slightest glimer of hope that Enma can damage Kaido is enough for any samurai to try to tame if if they could.
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Lmao no you are not. No Zoro fan in their right mind would say Charisma less boring trash can like Law is a better character than Zoro.
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Can't be rape if everyone's scrambling for his CoC.
Yeah Hancock's face definitely screams 'consent" there lmao.
Current Luffy ~ Enma Zoro ~ Oden > King > Katakuri > Doffy ~ Pre Enma Zoro > Queen > Jack > Law ~ Dukes ~ 3 main samurai.
Zoro was equaling Kyoshiro while missing his strongest weapon and injured and Kyoshiro is at least Ashura Doji level, I'd say a lot stronger. Not to mention how casually he stopped Kawamatsu, Ashura Doji's equal who doesn't even have balls to wield Enma because he knows he will die if he does so as he basically jizzed his pants when Zoro did it.
If any of the samurai could tame Enma, they would tame Enma, because Kaido is on their ass. They are enslaved, their country is destroyed, they would do anything possible to take down Kaido. Just the slightest glimer of hope that Enma can damage Kaido is enough for any samurai to try to tame if if they could.
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Lmao no you are not. No Zoro fan in their right mind would say Charisma less boring trash can like Law is a better character than Zoro.
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Can't be rape if everyone's scrambling for his CoC.
Lol. This part always me makes laugh. As if Zoro wasn't acknowledging inferiority to Post-G4 Doffy.
It's not my fault Oda writes Law with more complexity than Zoro these days.
It's not my fault Oda writes Law with more complexity than Zoro these days.
