Powers & Abilities Zoro and the Scabbards

ShishioIsBack

ShishioIsBack

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#222
#222
TheAncientCenturion said:
Lol. This part always me makes laugh. As if Zoro wasn't acknowledging inferiority to Post-G4 Doffy.
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Lmaooo you know you got no argument when you bring that troll panel.

Doffy is so trash his haki string can't even cut Kinnemon's Haki swords lmao
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TheAncientCenturion said:
It's not my fault Oda writes Law with more complexity than Zoro these days.
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Good characters don't have to be complex. Doffy is the most basic character, as run of the mill of a villain concept as it gets. Doesn't stop you from dick riding it.

Zoro pre TS is 1000000% more compelling character than Law ever was. Hell even post TS Zoro is more endearing than Law.
 
Himura

Himura

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#227
#227
ZenZu said:
The strength of the Scabbards varies massively, the only characters that matter here are Ashura Doji, the Duke, and Nekomamushi. The rest are clearly inferior.
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I agree strength wise Scabbards are different, but speaking about the strongest Kinemon said each of Ashura/Kawa/Denjiro costs 100 men. Doesn't that mean they are the same level?
 
Cyrus the Cactus

Cyrus the Cactus

Mihawk Reigns Supreme
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#229
#229
ZenZu said:
Didn't say nobody bothered trying, but do you know who did? Can you list them out? On top of that can you tell me when they did? Can you tell me Ashura Doji tried it at his current level (which he clearly said he got stronger over the years) or did he try it 5 years ago? 10? 15? 20?

We're talking about Current Ashura Doji are we not? The one we saw clash with Jack. I don't know when he got that strong, so why would I even bother diving into fanfic?

Where do we even start debating something so open ended? Is it gonna be my fanfic vs yours?

Why do I need to supply proof that others failed at taming Enma when that's what the narrative states? Hitetsu said nobody tamed it, I'm saying nobody tamed it, you're trying to argue against it.

There's not much grounds to go off of, you're gonna continue holding on to this thin string claim for dear life VS mountains of feats, portrayal, and even statements. It's not really a hard decision to make here, unless you're trying to go out of your way to prep up a character you like? You're not giving me much of a choice but to think like that, because it's not even reasonable to go with the former vs the latter.

Odd comparison since this has nothing to do with titles or those situations.


Ofcourse, I agree completely. It hypes up Zoro. What it doesn't do however is somehow erase all the feats and portrayal we have to work with.

Zoro has more hype than all the scabbards as well, don't disagree with that either. Hype is simply one aspect.



Yes we do, we definitely have an idea, it's far from "no idea" and this is where we differ.


This is all I needed tbh, If you're willing to entertain Dressrosa Zoro > Doflamingo, then that's that. I got my answer. It's the first thing I posted. You either think Zoro grew massively since Dressrosa to Wano, or you believe he was above or ~ Mingo pretty much entering the timeskip.

Aside from common sense, diving into why Dressrosa Zoro was below Doflamingo is an entirely different discussion that I'm not trying to have here and now.
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One thing I'm wondering - how do you think things are gonna play out at the end of the arc? Where do you see where Zoro is gonna be at the end of the arc? And I suppose where do you see Oden? Because there's set up for Zoro to surpass Oden by the end of the arc...meaning either Zoro is gonna take massive jumps - from not being able to beat Doffy in Dressrosa (according to you) to being above Oden, or Zoro came out of the time skip stronger than he was given credit for.
 
Rivaille

Rivaille

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#230
#230
Kinemon and Kanjuro who saw from they own eyes Oden’s swordsmanship and saw him cut Kaido were in total awe before Zoro cutting Pica’s golem which speak volume of Zoro’s level. And remember that those guys have travel in time which means that Oden’s feats were still fresh in their minds.

If you add that to Zoro’s feat with Enma and his portrayal regarding the blade, it is clear as day that Zoro is near Oden’s level and above the scabbards.
 
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BossYimz

BossYimz

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#231
#231
Rivaille said:
Kinemon and Kanjuro who saw from they own eyes Oden’s swordsmanship and saw him cut Kaido were in total awe before Zoro cutting Pica’s golem which speak volume of Zoro’s level. And remember that those guys have travel in time which means that Oden’s feats were still fresh in their minds.

If you add that to Zoro’s feat with Enma and his portrayal regarding the blade, it is clear as day that Zoro is near Oden’s level and above the scabbards.
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To top it off, Kawamatsu, Hitetsu were all impressed by Oden.
Hitetsu even went as far as to say, Zoro will turn the sword black, something Oden failed to do.
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As soon as Zoro make Emma permanently black, it will mean he is better than Oden at the very least when it comes to coa
 
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ShishioIsBack

ShishioIsBack

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#232
#232
I think people have this wild fetish over where Zoro has to always be weaker than Luffy because of "Captain is always stronger than his first mate" when it should be obvious that rule doesn't apply to Zoro based on the way he joined, his own resolve and the way he is generally portrayed.

Its painfully obvious Dressrosa Zoro > Luffy now that we know he has proper mastery of advance Haki and his Haki is strong enough to tame Enma which no one in the country strongly linked to advanced CoA (Ryouou) can tame besides Oden. Basically Oda spoon feeding your Haki has to be around Oden level to Tame Enma which basically means Zoros Haki is at least was at least whole tier above Luffys in Dressrosa. On top of it, even without Ashura his AP on Pica makes G3 look like a joke and rivals high end boundman attacks while his attack speed makes G2 look like a joke and Zoro is boundman by 20 minutes limit.

His endurance by portrayal is still above Luffys especially considering Luffy isn't gonna stab Zoro and it is all blunt attack that Zoro can take for days while Zoro can potentally kill luffy in one shot by beheading.

I think Zoro tears Luffy (Or Law judging by Zoros Haki level) worse than Doffy did in Dressrosa. There is a reason why Zoro and Doffy never clashed.

Currently Zoro should be able to mid diff Doffy worst as he is around Oden level while Doffy is between King and Queen.
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Anyways Enma Zoro low diffs Ashura Doji.
 
HA001

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
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#233
#233
ShishioIsBack said:
I think people have this wild fetish over where Zoro has to always be weaker than Luffy because of "Captain is always stronger than his first mate" when it should be obvious that rule doesn't apply to Zoro based on the way he joined, his own resolve and the way he is generally portrayed.

Its painfully obvious Dressrosa Zoro > Luffy now that we know he has proper mastery of advance Haki and his Haki is strong enough to tame Enma which no one in the country strongly linked to advanced CoA (Ryouou) can tame besides Oden. Basically Oda spoon feeding your Haki has to be around Oden level to Tame Enma which basically means Zoros Haki is at least was at least whole tier above Luffys in Dressrosa. On top of it, even without Ashura his AP on Pica makes G3 look like a joke and rivals high end boundman attacks while his attack speed makes G2 look like a joke and Zoro is boundman by 20 minutes limit.

His endurance by portrayal is still above Luffys especially considering Luffy isn't gonna stab Zoro and it is all blunt attack that Zoro can take for days while Zoro can potentally kill luffy in one shot by beheading.

I think Zoro tears Luffy (Or Law judging by Zoros Haki level) worse than Doffy did in Dressrosa. There is a reason why Zoro and Doffy never clashed.

Currently Zoro should be able to mid diff Doffy worst as he is around Oden level while Doffy is between King and Queen.
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Anyways Enma Zoro low diffs Ashura Doji.
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Dont know how people can argue this after what tengu said. He made it clear.
They were the ones to say hes fought nothing but fodder since timeskip. So he must not have grown much since dressrosa and hes still oden level.
 
S

Sword God Ryuma

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#235
#235
ZenZu said:
The strength of the Scabbards varies massively, the only characters that matter here are Ashura Doji, the Duke, and Nekomamushi. The rest are clearly inferior. The Kappa is featless against relevant characters so forget him for a moment. I doubt Zoro was clear cut above those 3 guys at the beginning of Wano, he hadn’t done much limit breaking pre Wano to get that significant of a jump. And by jump I mean if you use Doflamingo as the measure.

Jack’s portrayal is above Doflamingo’s, he’s most likely stronger, Shutenmaru was comfortably giving Jack problems, and the Cat/Dog duo was fighting pretty much on par with Jack for half a day each. In 12 hours of fighting he couldn’t do any substantial damage to either of them (a relatively fresh Jack fought a fresh Nekomamushi for 12 hours straight before the significance of the shift switches kicked in). More or less these guys are hovering around the Jack ballpark. Makes sense too, however low you think Capone is in the pecking order of Worst Gen Supernova, he was shitting his pants from Nekomamushi’s presence alone. Doubt he would react that way even to Luffy, so that says a lot. Given these things It makes sense that someone (most likely) stronger than Mingo couldn’t do anything noteworthy to those 2, given 12 hours of fighting individually. Think about what that means, most characters with any significant gap can assert their dominance given minutes, let alone half a day. It says a lot about the two that Jack couldn’t do that given that much time. No way to really tell how much the duo fell off after losing limbs so I’m gonna assume Ashura Doji is around the same level as Cat/Dog pre limb loss (honestly he did more to Jack in much shorter time so that’s being generous, he could very well be above the two, he probably has the best portrayal among the scabbards living on Wano to say the least [1]).

Having established Cat/Dog/Shutenmaru somewhere around Doffy (possibly above) using Jack as the basis, it wouldn’t be honest to think Zoro was always clear cut stronger than them. The last major arc Zoro was in, we saw what Doflamingo was doing to the likes of Law, and even Luffy. Makes little to no sense to think Zoro would randomly be above Doflamingo (or even that close) when Law looked like child’s play, and Luffy was a few people shy of getting the entire planets population to charge a spirit bomb for him. So, the only other option we’re left with under the premise that Dog/Cat/Shutenmaru ~ Doflamingo is that Zoro got a pretty massive boost from Dressrosa to the beginning of Wano, to the point where he pretty much surged past the likes of Jack who couldn’t assert his dominance over those guys. And I just have a hard time believing he saw such a boost post Pica, and even a harder time believing he was already at that level during Dressrosa when Law/Luffy were getting their asses kicked.

tl;dr: Was possibly stronger than Cat/Dog post limb loss (no way to confirm really), almost certain he was below Ashura Doji and likely below Cat/Dog pre limb loss.
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Lol Hitesu seen Zoro train with the sword for like 3 days and then thinks he can turn it Black while Oden couldn't do it, somebody they all admired and hype up. Lmao they don't know Zoro from a hole in the wall.
 
I

Inspector_Mu

#237
#237
KiriNigiri said:
Zoro's feats were already better than all the Scabbards pre-Wano.

Cutting a mountain + Clashing and overpowering Issho's gravity > cutting Jack and fighting him for some odd hours where you got rest
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:gokulaugh:
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Zoro faints
Inu blocks Javk attack with one hand

Mstered Enma zoro is gonna be barely Yc2/3
Pre enma< below Dukes Ashura Kawa
 
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