You put it perfectly. The "Nothing Happened" moment isn't too bad in isolation, it was the precursor of what was becoming of Zoro as he became less of an individual, becoming just another one of Luffy's cheerleader and becoming a caricature of himself, primarily fighting on Luffy's behalf, being "badass", acting like a tard, and getting lost. With that in mind I've grown to dislike the "Nothing Happened" moment over time as well.
Character Discussion Rate Zoro as a Character compared to other Shonen Characters
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- Tags capybara>zolo
Its not just about timing tho. Its about the fact that oda waste time on meaningless things when he gives zoro panel time.
Just think about it.
1) zoro was a literal NPC before luffy came to wano. Did absolutely nothing, didn't gather info nor did he try to find the remaining scrubbards
2) He wasted entire act2 of wano surrounded by the orochi plotline, which never came to fruition.
3) Teased about nidai, but never sees it again.
4) Teased about black blade, but comes out of wano arc just as clueless as he was before wano
5) given hints about his background in manga, just for it to be revealed in a useless sbs.
6) teased as to gather the samurai in wano which would have been perfect opportunity to highlight zoro's conquerors haki in a natural way, and yet again this gets shafted.
7) bullshit ryuma grave thing which would never have achieved anything.
8) wasted time again with double damage plotline, yet we never see how severe the consequences were. Gave the useless grim reaper panel with 0 explanation.
All of this did jackshit for his character. Nor did this shit affect the plot in anyway. That was just fucking filler just so the shit mangaka can extend the fucking arc.
On top of all of this, oda goes to the extreme to mock Zoro by making Ryuma parallel to Luffy. The same guy we heard entire arc about how similar he was to zoro. The sword god, the one who reached the pinnacle of swordsman compared to a swordless df user
No amount of timing or placement of events ever gonna change the gigantic dump he took on Zoro in wano.
Zoro has been Luffy’s “cheerleader” since Baratie. Some of you need to accept that everybody plays second fiddle to Luffy
Its not about playing second fiddle.
Zoro before thriller bark was an actual individual. Even tho he made that promise to luffy at baratie(which he has broken countless times by now) he still had a clear cut goal of self improvement to achieve his dream and keep the promise to kuina. He was well balanced back then with loyalty and ambition.
At thriller bark, he abandons his individuality i.e. his ambition to save luffy. Which we later find was useless because Kuma was always on luffy's side because of his connection to dragon.
Now after this, zoro became an empty shell. The only thing that made him a character was his association to luffy. Without it he was nothing. No individuality, just a loyal dog who is waiting for a treat from his master.
And the final nail in the coffin was him bowing to mihawk. After spending 3/4 of his life to trying to surpass mihawk, he fucking bows to his end goal to train him.
And the fucker didn't do it for himself he did it for luffy, the same guy that doesn't even need zoro on the crew nor does he give a shit about zoro. If the situation were reversed, luffy would never give up his ambition for zoro. Zoro isn't like Ace, that luffy would go to extreme to save.
Sorry about the long rant. Had to get this out, been a long time coming. Just have to finally say that if people are still looking for some type of character from zoro, give it up it ain't gonna happen.
Just think about it.
1) zoro was a literal NPC before luffy came to wano. Did absolutely nothing, didn't gather info nor did he try to find the remaining scrubbards
2) He wasted entire act2 of wano surrounded by the orochi plotline, which never came to fruition.
3) Teased about nidai, but never sees it again.
4) Teased about black blade, but comes out of wano arc just as clueless as he was before wano
5) given hints about his background in manga, just for it to be revealed in a useless sbs.
6) teased as to gather the samurai in wano which would have been perfect opportunity to highlight zoro's conquerors haki in a natural way, and yet again this gets shafted.
7) bullshit ryuma grave thing which would never have achieved anything.
8) wasted time again with double damage plotline, yet we never see how severe the consequences were. Gave the useless grim reaper panel with 0 explanation.
All of this did jackshit for his character. Nor did this shit affect the plot in anyway. That was just fucking filler just so the shit mangaka can extend the fucking arc.
On top of all of this, oda goes to the extreme to mock Zoro by making Ryuma parallel to Luffy. The same guy we heard entire arc about how similar he was to zoro. The sword god, the one who reached the pinnacle of swordsman compared to a swordless df user
No amount of timing or placement of events ever gonna change the gigantic dump he took on Zoro in wano.
Zoro has been Luffy’s “cheerleader” since Baratie. Some of you need to accept that everybody plays second fiddle to Luffy
Zoro before thriller bark was an actual individual. Even tho he made that promise to luffy at baratie(which he has broken countless times by now) he still had a clear cut goal of self improvement to achieve his dream and keep the promise to kuina. He was well balanced back then with loyalty and ambition.
At thriller bark, he abandons his individuality i.e. his ambition to save luffy. Which we later find was useless because Kuma was always on luffy's side because of his connection to dragon.
Now after this, zoro became an empty shell. The only thing that made him a character was his association to luffy. Without it he was nothing. No individuality, just a loyal dog who is waiting for a treat from his master.
And the final nail in the coffin was him bowing to mihawk. After spending 3/4 of his life to trying to surpass mihawk, he fucking bows to his end goal to train him.
And the fucker didn't do it for himself he did it for luffy, the same guy that doesn't even need zoro on the crew nor does he give a shit about zoro. If the situation were reversed, luffy would never give up his ambition for zoro. Zoro isn't like Ace, that luffy would go to extreme to save.
Sorry about the long rant. Had to get this out, been a long time coming. Just have to finally say that if people are still looking for some type of character from zoro, give it up it ain't gonna happen.
You have no understanding of Zoro and Luffy as characters. Crazy ass rant all thay for saying Luffy wouldnt do the same thing for Ace with Zoro when we literally went an entire arc for Robin who was literally on the crew for 2 months and betrayed them. He fought against the wholw world government 💀💀💀 ***** here really talk out of there ass using intellectual words thinking they're some high level critics
Now lets stick to what actually happened in the manga
After "nothing happened" when zoro was on his deathbed, what did luffy do? Oh right, have a fucking party.
At sabaody, even after noticing zoro was injured and not in proper fighting condition he didn't do shit. Fucking sanji was the one who jumped in to help out zoro, while luffy stood there looking from sidelines. He was getting bullied by sento while the big boss were targetting zoro.
When zoro was blocking hakai, luffy didn't lift a single finger to help out and protect zoro. It was Law who helped him out. And the funny thing is after he blocked hakai, the allied captains showed more concern for his crew member than luffy ever did.
Tell me, what has luffy done for zoro that has actually helped out zoro in achieving his dream? I'll give you my answer: absolutely nothing because he can't do anything to help zoro out. And yet zoro has sacrificed everything that made him an individual character to help luffy progress on his journey.
In 3 crucial life or death moments for zoro, luffy didn't do a damn thing. Dont come at me with garbage he would do this or that.
After "nothing happened" when zoro was on his deathbed, what did luffy do? Oh right, have a fucking party.
At sabaody, even after noticing zoro was injured and not in proper fighting condition he didn't do shit. Fucking sanji was the one who jumped in to help out zoro, while luffy stood there looking from sidelines. He was getting bullied by sento while the big boss were targetting zoro.
When zoro was blocking hakai, luffy didn't lift a single finger to help out and protect zoro. It was Law who helped him out. And the funny thing is after he blocked hakai, the allied captains showed more concern for his crew member than luffy ever did.
Tell me, what has luffy done for zoro that has actually helped out zoro in achieving his dream? I'll give you my answer: absolutely nothing because he can't do anything to help zoro out. And yet zoro has sacrificed everything that made him an individual character to help luffy progress on his journey.
In 3 crucial life or death moments for zoro, luffy didn't do a damn thing. Dont come at me with garbage he would do this or that.
Again, no understanding of Luffy's charactrer whatsoever. Luffy has said time and time again that whenever the weaker peoole of his crew are alone, he always relies on Zoro's strength to protect them. You expect Luffy to stop fighting the biggest fight of his life to takw care of Zoro? In front of motherfucking Big Mom and Kaido? Luffy, time and time again, has been depicted to be very selfish and willing to do whatever it takes to achieve his goals. But he still shows care to his crewmates, he knows zoro is strong enough to get his shit back together and when he knew he was veryr injured, he asked law to tend to him while fighting Kaido alone. FUCK OUTTA HERE BRUH. And Lol, you expdct Luffy to help Zoro achieving his swordsman dream? How the fuck will he do that?
Shit I’ve never considered this at all. I’d say the one thing luffy did for Zoro (if you count it) would be back in Baratie where Luffy showed Zoro the respect to allow him to fight his own battle his way. It was a great scene between these two where luffy showed like he fully understood Zoros ideals and encouraged them.
But I can’t disagree with you.
But I can’t disagree with you.
There's the fucking word. Luffy is the captain, first and foremost, Zoro said it himself in water 7, this isnt some fucking game. They're here to get the One Piece and for Luffy to be the pirate King. They all had thier fucking moments announcing it. Luffy's not here to help Zoro's dream. Im 100% sure Zoro wouldnt like that either because HE himself wants to be the worlds greatest swordsman to aid Luffy in HIS quest. His words in Baratie, not mine. Yall are reading this stoey with your asses and a fucking boner
Most garbage fucking piece of shit I’ve ever had the dultimate displeasure of seeing and reading about
sorry sack of shit excuse for a “character” can you even call mid that?
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Oda needs to murder this scum
It’s not too late to save the story
Matter of fact that’d be best for it over all
sorry sack of shit excuse for a “character” can you even call mid that?
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Oda needs to murder this scum
It’s not too late to save the story
Matter of fact that’d be best for it over all
Seems like you forgot what happened in the manga. So let me remind you the actual events.
Chapter 1003 luffy exhausted himself after G4. And while he was targetted by big mom, Zoro pulls him out of there. Then again saves luffy from kaido eating him. And keeps covering him for the 10mins cooldown period of g4, all of this while still fighting against both yonko.
Chapter 1009: when Zoro is blocking the combo attack, luffy doesn't move a single muscle to help zoro block the attack. Mind you luffy had seen the attack coming by fs. It was Law, an allied captain who showed more concern for zoro and pulled him out of there. Had he stayed there for longer he would have died, right in front of luffy's eyes with him not lifting a single finger.
I hope you understand the fucking difference in both situations.
Thanks for understanding my point. Luffy can't help zoro at all in achieving his dream.
Zoro doesn't get anything from luffy at all. Yet he has given up dream, life, pride in multiple cases for luffy to progress. Ignoring his own motivations to be the best and focusing simply on luffy.
It has always been one-way street for them instead of two-way
And the funny thing about this is, with how heavily plot armoured luffy is he can get through any of those situations without zoro. Proof: Luffy literally respawned 5 times in a single fight.
Chapter 1003 luffy exhausted himself after G4. And while he was targetted by big mom, Zoro pulls him out of there. Then again saves luffy from kaido eating him. And keeps covering him for the 10mins cooldown period of g4, all of this while still fighting against both yonko.
Chapter 1009: when Zoro is blocking the combo attack, luffy doesn't move a single muscle to help zoro block the attack. Mind you luffy had seen the attack coming by fs. It was Law, an allied captain who showed more concern for zoro and pulled him out of there. Had he stayed there for longer he would have died, right in front of luffy's eyes with him not lifting a single finger.
I hope you understand the fucking difference in both situations.
Thanks for understanding my point. Luffy can't help zoro at all in achieving his dream.
Zoro doesn't get anything from luffy at all. Yet he has given up dream, life, pride in multiple cases for luffy to progress. Ignoring his own motivations to be the best and focusing simply on luffy.
It has always been one-way street for them instead of two-way
And the funny thing about this is, with how heavily plot armoured luffy is he can get through any of those situations without zoro. Proof: Luffy literally respawned 5 times in a single fight.
I want to highlight this part specifically
this part is what gave meme clarity on Oda’s intentions with Zoro.
Oda uses Zoro as a “hype tool” for Luffy.
people don’t realize that a “hype tool” doesn’t just have to be an enemy combatant being defeated. for the sake of stakes and power scaling. A hype tool can also just be one character simply being stated to be better than another character.
Oda knows how popular Zoro is. I bet he knows Zoro is more popular in the west than Luffy since Oda is obsessed with gaining popularity in the west. I bet he is aware of how much merch each individual strawhat sells in which markets around the world. He knows Zoro is more popular in this market that he wants to get in to. He knows Zoro is more popular in the western media spaces like twitter or YouTube or Reddit or forums like this.
Oda knows all this and he has a problem with it. the problem is that one piece is about Luffy and Oda can’t find a way of making Luffy more popular than Zoro. Like he has tried things like removing Zoro from a four year long arc (WCI) and i bet the statistics on sales and shit showed Zoro was still
More popular.
So the only thing Left for Oda to try and do is get o make Zoro Luffy’s hypetool. Everything Zoro does, must be directly compared to Luffy and shown to be inferior to Luffy.
Zoro unlocks AdvCoC and scars Kaido (this feat that’s been hyped up for the whole arc), Zoro must immediately downplay this feat by saying knocking down Kaido is another feat… and then Luffy has to arrive and knock down Kaido hence showing Luffy’s AdvCoC punch is more impressive than Zoro’s AdvCoC Ashura.
Zoro says he wants to gather the samurai, no Luffy is who the samurai gather under and look up to. And Oda has to even make sure that Luffy tells the audience that Zoro is useless in this regard. Oda literally has a panel of Luffy saying this to remind the audience that this is beyond Zoro.
And then all the wank and lore around Ryuma that we are shown Zoro is interested in, all that has to be built up for hundreds of chapters to be revealed to be about Luffy instead.
It’s important that this is seemingly Zoro hype that specifically gets transferred to Luffy. It’s like how the Nidai Kitetsu never gets used by Zoro and is basically just a decoration for Luffy. Hundreds of chapters of speculation regarding the Kitetsu blades and Oda has Zoro obsessing over Nidai so that Luffy can use it as a joke and Zoro never touches it once.
In Oda’s mind, the way to make Luffy more popular in the west is to pick the most popular character in the West, Zoro, and then systematically prove that Luffy is better than Zoro in everything Zoro cares about.
Wano is a travesty of writing and cements Oda as a mid tier writer in many aspects of the Arc’s writing. But this Zoro treatment is probably the most egregious thing Oda has done and it is literally irrecoverable for Zoro as a character.
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@Blazing Lion
This is the most disingenuous shit I’ve ever read
First of all, Zoro had no character development in the king fight… He had that backward nonsense growth Oda writes where a character learns something they already knew…. Oda presents the Enma situation as a way of having development for Zoro when it’s not… Enma is a sword that forces its user to be always fighting all out, so it’s presented as though Zoro is learning that he has to always be fighting all out to protect his crew or whatever
this is nonsense aa literally 20 chapters earlier, Zoro literally says he is fighting all out… He says so when he uses Ashura against Kaido… We have never been led to believe this was a problem for Zoro… That for whatever reason he had been holding back or some shit… Zoro had never lost a fight due to “holding back” for the story to present this as a character flaw of Zoro… the reason Zoro wasn’t going all out the entire post time skip is because ODA ONLY GAVE ZORO WEAK OPPONENTS… The reason we only saw Ashura once post time skip was because this was the first time Zoro ever needed it
Oda is making up a problem that Zoro never actually had and presenting Enma as A solution to something that never was a problem… and now people like you think this is character development because now Zoro can go all out for his friends or whatever the fuck… stupidity
And your claim that people are ONLY dissatisfied with Zoro not getting character development is just a dumb… For example people complained that Zoro didn’t visit ryuma’s grave… No one said that there was a character arc lost here or something… That Zoro needed a character arc related to ryuma… The problem was simply that ZORO SAID HE WANTED TO DO THIS, AND THEN DOESNT DO IT
Get it? Zoro doesn’t have CHARACTER MOMENTS… nothing about his personality shines through anything specific he does in all of Wano… The things he says he wants to do never happen… He says he wants to avenge Yasu, he doesn’t… He says he wants to use Nidai Kitetsu, he doesn’t… He says he will gather the samurai, he doesn’t… He says he will cut down Kaido, he doesn’t… he says he will visit ryuma’s grave, he doesn’t… he says he wants to know about black blades, he doesn’t…
What exactly are people asking too much of when it comes to Zoro for him to SIMPLY DO THE SHIT HE WANTS TO DO… The only things he does are the things he always does… Fight and get lost
this part is what gave meme clarity on Oda’s intentions with Zoro.
Oda uses Zoro as a “hype tool” for Luffy.
people don’t realize that a “hype tool” doesn’t just have to be an enemy combatant being defeated. for the sake of stakes and power scaling. A hype tool can also just be one character simply being stated to be better than another character.
Oda knows how popular Zoro is. I bet he knows Zoro is more popular in the west than Luffy since Oda is obsessed with gaining popularity in the west. I bet he is aware of how much merch each individual strawhat sells in which markets around the world. He knows Zoro is more popular in this market that he wants to get in to. He knows Zoro is more popular in the western media spaces like twitter or YouTube or Reddit or forums like this.
Oda knows all this and he has a problem with it. the problem is that one piece is about Luffy and Oda can’t find a way of making Luffy more popular than Zoro. Like he has tried things like removing Zoro from a four year long arc (WCI) and i bet the statistics on sales and shit showed Zoro was still
More popular.
So the only thing Left for Oda to try and do is get o make Zoro Luffy’s hypetool. Everything Zoro does, must be directly compared to Luffy and shown to be inferior to Luffy.
Zoro unlocks AdvCoC and scars Kaido (this feat that’s been hyped up for the whole arc), Zoro must immediately downplay this feat by saying knocking down Kaido is another feat… and then Luffy has to arrive and knock down Kaido hence showing Luffy’s AdvCoC punch is more impressive than Zoro’s AdvCoC Ashura.
Zoro says he wants to gather the samurai, no Luffy is who the samurai gather under and look up to. And Oda has to even make sure that Luffy tells the audience that Zoro is useless in this regard. Oda literally has a panel of Luffy saying this to remind the audience that this is beyond Zoro.
And then all the wank and lore around Ryuma that we are shown Zoro is interested in, all that has to be built up for hundreds of chapters to be revealed to be about Luffy instead.
It’s important that this is seemingly Zoro hype that specifically gets transferred to Luffy. It’s like how the Nidai Kitetsu never gets used by Zoro and is basically just a decoration for Luffy. Hundreds of chapters of speculation regarding the Kitetsu blades and Oda has Zoro obsessing over Nidai so that Luffy can use it as a joke and Zoro never touches it once.
In Oda’s mind, the way to make Luffy more popular in the west is to pick the most popular character in the West, Zoro, and then systematically prove that Luffy is better than Zoro in everything Zoro cares about.
Wano is a travesty of writing and cements Oda as a mid tier writer in many aspects of the Arc’s writing. But this Zoro treatment is probably the most egregious thing Oda has done and it is literally irrecoverable for Zoro as a character.
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@Blazing Lion
This is the most disingenuous shit I’ve ever read
First of all, Zoro had no character development in the king fight… He had that backward nonsense growth Oda writes where a character learns something they already knew…. Oda presents the Enma situation as a way of having development for Zoro when it’s not… Enma is a sword that forces its user to be always fighting all out, so it’s presented as though Zoro is learning that he has to always be fighting all out to protect his crew or whatever
this is nonsense aa literally 20 chapters earlier, Zoro literally says he is fighting all out… He says so when he uses Ashura against Kaido… We have never been led to believe this was a problem for Zoro… That for whatever reason he had been holding back or some shit… Zoro had never lost a fight due to “holding back” for the story to present this as a character flaw of Zoro… the reason Zoro wasn’t going all out the entire post time skip is because ODA ONLY GAVE ZORO WEAK OPPONENTS… The reason we only saw Ashura once post time skip was because this was the first time Zoro ever needed it
Oda is making up a problem that Zoro never actually had and presenting Enma as A solution to something that never was a problem… and now people like you think this is character development because now Zoro can go all out for his friends or whatever the fuck… stupidity
And your claim that people are ONLY dissatisfied with Zoro not getting character development is just a dumb… For example people complained that Zoro didn’t visit ryuma’s grave… No one said that there was a character arc lost here or something… That Zoro needed a character arc related to ryuma… The problem was simply that ZORO SAID HE WANTED TO DO THIS, AND THEN DOESNT DO IT
Get it? Zoro doesn’t have CHARACTER MOMENTS… nothing about his personality shines through anything specific he does in all of Wano… The things he says he wants to do never happen… He says he wants to avenge Yasu, he doesn’t… He says he wants to use Nidai Kitetsu, he doesn’t… He says he will gather the samurai, he doesn’t… He says he will cut down Kaido, he doesn’t… he says he will visit ryuma’s grave, he doesn’t… he says he wants to know about black blades, he doesn’t…
What exactly are people asking too much of when it comes to Zoro for him to SIMPLY DO THE SHIT HE WANTS TO DO… The only things he does are the things he always does… Fight and get lost
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