Character Discussion Rate Zoro as a Character compared to other Shonen Characters

[ImmaIvanoM]

I think the main problem is that many Zoro fans had high expectations about Zoro's lineage, his character development etc etc during Wano and thats why you/they are so disappointed.

Luckily enough i knew that Oda treats Zoro (esp post ts) as your typical badass support protagonist w/o focusing too much on him and i had no problem with what happened, besides from the Ryuma thing.

@gz89
Wait, are you saying it’s Zoro fans who made up all these expectations? And that Oda himself didn’t write these expectations into the story?

read the above post I made , the one right before this one in reply to juanpiz… I list a number of things THAT ZORO SAYS HE WANTS TO DO, in the arc AND THEN DOESNT DO THEM… And I even show how pre time skip, when Zoro said he wanted to do something in an arc, he simply did those things

are you saying that it’s too much for Zoro fans to expect that Zoro does THE THINGS THAT HE SAYS HE WILL DO?

 

[Juanpiz]

@gz89
Wait, are you saying it’s Zoro fans who made up all these expectations? And that Oda himself didn’t write these expectations into the story?

read the above post I made , the one right before this one in reply to juanpiz… I list a number of things THAT ZORO SAYS HE WANTS TO DO, in the arc AND THEN DOESNT DO THEM… And I even show how pre time skip, when Zoro said he wanted to do something in an arc, he simply did those things

are you saying that it’s too much for Zoro fans to expect that Zoro does THE THINGS THAT HE SAYS HE WILL DO?

His captain Fluffy wanted to take on all Admirals and yonkous but that giant carried him away from fujitora and other guys dealt with big mom

 

[gz89]

@gz89
Wait, are you saying it’s Zoro fans who made up all these expectations? And that Oda himself didn’t write these expectations into the story?

read the above post I made , the one right before this one in reply to juanpiz… I list a number of things THAT ZORO SAYS HE WANTS TO DO, in the arc AND THEN DOESNT DO THEM… And I even show how pre time skip, when Zoro said he wanted to do something in an arc, he simply did those things

are you saying that it’s too much for Zoro fans to expect that Zoro does THE THINGS THAT HE SAYS HE WILL DO?

People were speculating that Wano will be Zoro's arc since TB.

Oda just added some things during Wano but failed to deliver. I think its not because he "hates" Zoro due to his popularity in West but more like he fucked up with Wano's length.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

People were speculating that Wano will be Zoro's arc since TB.

Oda just added some things during Wano but failed to deliver. I think its not because he "hates" Zoro due to his popularity in West but more like he fucked up with Wano's length.

I didn’t say he hates Zoro, I said he systematically wrote expectations regarding Zoro, and INTENTIONALLY didn’t deliver

this is the big part of my argument, I think Oda knew Zoro would never get Nidai… He knew when he was writing that scene of Luffy trolling Zoro with Nidai that Fans Want Zoro to get Nidai, and that he WILL NEVER GET IT

And this repeats for all the plot lines Zoro has.

you’re lying to yourself if you believe Oda doesnt know that when he writes things like Zoro saying “I want that sword” that Oda isn’t intending for fans to expect that Zoro will get the sword

like either you’re lying to yourself or you’re willfully riding Oda’s dick… fans didn’t make Zoro say he wants Nidai… Oda did… And Oda did this to create the expectation in fans that Zoro will get it

 

[Juanpiz]

I didn’t say he hates Zoro, I said he systematically wrote expectations regarding Zoro, and INTENTIONALLY didn’t deliver

this is the big part of my argument, I think Oda knew Zoro would never get Nidai… He knew when he was writing that scene of Luffy trolling Zoro with Nidai that Fans Want Zoro to get Nidai, and that he WILL NEVER GET IT

And this repeats for all the plot lines Zoro has.

you’re lying to yourself if you believe Oda doesnt know that when he writes things like Zoro saying “I want that sword” that Oda isn’t intending for fans to expect that Zoro will get the sword

like either you’re lying to yourself or you’re willfully riding Oda’s dick… fans didn’t make Zoro say he wants Nidai… Oda did… And Oda did this to create the expectation in fans that Zoro will get it

To be honest I considered all that ryuma, nidai etc more like a "side quest" and not important like the remaining characters, places etc of the plot overall

 

[gz89]

you’re lying to yourself if you believe Oda doesnt know that when he writes things like Zoro saying “I want that sword” that Oda isn’t intending for fans to expect that Zoro will get the sword

like either you’re lying to yourself or you’re willfully riding Oda’s dick… fans didn’t make Zoro say he wants Nidai… Oda did… And Oda did this to create the expectation in fans that Zoro will get it

Bro i've no need to lie to myself about a comic character lol.
Its just that i dont have any expectations when it comes to Zoro's character and dont pay attention to every small detail Oda throws at people and they start writing essays about what will happen with it.

Zoro is just a cool character and i like him for that.
I dont need deep analysis, character depth/development and stuff like this.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

To be honest I considered all that ryuma, nidai etc more like a "side quest" and not important like the remaining characters, places etc of the plot

Zoro also said he wants to gather the samurai… he didn’t do that… In fact Luffy even makes fun of Zoro at the start of Wano saying Zoro can’t accomplish that

Zoro says he wants to avenge Yasu, he doesn’t do that

he says he wants to cut down Kaido, he doesn’t do that

neither the “important” stuff or the “unimportant” stuff Zoro says he wants to do, he ever does

instead people point to “Zoro got CoC” in Wano as the “big things” Zoro did… nothing Zoro says he wants to do or provide any specific character moments for Zoro… No, Zoro randomly unlocking CoC and still not being aware that he has CoC… those are the things that people say are worth 150 chapters of the only Zoro focused arc in the entire story

In thriller bark, Zoro says he wants Ryuma’s sword(a side quest) and wants to get Brook’s shadow back (a main quest)… And he does both of them… this is now asking too much that Zoro does anything he says he will do, big or small

Post automatically merged: Aug 15, 2023

Bro i've no need to lie to myself about a comic character lol.
Its just that i dont have any expectations when it comes to Zoro's character and dont pay attention to every small detail Oda throws at people and they start writing essays about what will happen with it.

Zoro is just a cool character and i like him for that.
I dont need deep analysis, character depth/development and stuff like this.

@gz89
Fine if your excuse is, “I don’t care” then keep not caring

this thread is about Zoro’s character, the thing you don’t care about… so…

My problem with you tho now is that you’re accusing fans of caring at all… that it’s now the fans’ fault for caring… just because you don’t care… That’s fucked up… you can keep not caring all you want, don’t tell people that it’s their fault for caring at all

 

[Juanpiz]

Zoro also said he wants to gather the samurai… he didn’t do that… In fact Luffy even makes fun of Zoro at the start of Wano saying Zoro can’t accomplish that

Zoro says he wants to avenge Yasu, he doesn’t do that

he says he wants to cut down Kaido, he doesn’t do that

neither the “important” stuff or the “unimportant” stuff Zoro says he wants to do, he ever does

instead people point to “Zoro got CoC” in Wano as the “big things” Zoro did… nothing Zoro says he wants to do or provide any specific character moments for Zoro… No, Zoro randomly unlocking CoC and still not being aware that he has CoC… those are the things that people say are worth 150 chapters of the only Zoro focused arc in the entire story

In thriller bark, Zoro says he wants Ryuma’s sword(a side quest) and wants to get Brook’s shadow back (a main quest)… And he does both of them… this is now asking too much that Zoro does anything he says he will do, big or small

Post automatically merged: Aug 15, 2023

@gz89
Fine if your excuse is, “I don’t care” then keep not caring

this thread is about Zoro’s character, the thing you don’t care about… so…

My problem with you tho now is that you’re accusing fans of caring at all… that it’s now the fans’ fault for caring… just because you don’t care… That’s fucked up… you can keep not caring all you want, don’t tell people that it’s their fault for caring at all

Long story short - Oda plans too much and doesn't complete everything

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Long story short - Oda plans too much and doesn't complete everything

That’s true in general

but it’s not true with Zoro in wano

Oda knew Zoro was never getting Nidai Kitetsu. That was part of the plan. That Zoro never gets this sword. And so when Oda wrote three separate panels of Zoro saying he wants the sword and Luffy is trolling Zoro with the sword, Oda both wants the audience to Expect Zoro to get the sword, and also wants the audience to feel some type of way when he never gets it… because he knows he won’t give the sword to Zoro… He wants the audience to want something for Zoro he will never get

People forget that in the first SBS of Wano, LESS THAT 20 chapters after that arc had started already, Oda said he won’t do Zoro’s lineage in the actual manga

people forget this SBS where Oda outright said “This is probably not gonna be in the story”… people think Oda just ran out of time to include Zoro’s lineage plot line when no, he outright said he won’t include it

so the way Zoro’s lineage is badly done and extremely dissatisfying WAS INTENDED from the first 20 chapters of the arc… So when Oda wrote those annoying teases about Zoro’s lineage and that random panel in the king fight where spectators are discussing Zoro’s resemblance to Ryuma… That was intentionally GOING NOWHERE… Oda planned over 100 chapters before that scene that Zoro’s lineage was going nowhere… So he wrote that panel also knowing it’s going nowhere… And yet also knowing Fans will think it’s going somewhere

I agree Oda had bad planning for plot lines all throughout Wano… But not for Zoro… He knew exactly what he was doing with Zoro… He knew Zoro was not gonna avenge Yasu when he wrote that panel of Zoro saying he wants to avenge Yasu… he knew all these things, and he intentionally wanted fans to feel some type of way when they didn’t happen

 

[Juanpiz]

That’s true in general

but it’s not true with Zoro in wano

Oda knew Zoro was never getting Nidai Kitetsu. That was part of the plan. That Zoro never gets this sword. And so when Oda wrote three separate panels of Zoro saying he wants the sword and Luffy is trolling Zoro with the sword, Oda both wants the audience to Expect Zoro to get the sword, and also wants the audience to feel some type of way when he never gets it… because he knows he won’t give the sword to Zoro… He wants the audience to want something for Zoro he will never get

People forget that in the first SBS of Wano, LESS THAT 20 chapters after that arc had started already, Oda said he won’t do Zoro’s lineage in the actual manga

people forget this SBS where Oda outright said “This is probably not gonna be in the story”… people think Oda just ran out of time to include Zoro’s lineage plot line when no, he outright said he won’t include it

so the way Zoro’s lineage is badly done and extremely dissatisfying WAS INTENDED from the first 20 chapters of the arc… So when Oda wrote those annoying teases about Zoro’s lineage and that random panel in the king fight where spectators are discussing Zoro’s resemblance to Ryuma… That was intentionally GOING NOWHERE… Oda planned over 100 chapters before that scene that Zoro’s lineage was going nowhere… So he wrote that panel also knowing it’s going nowhere… And yet also knowing Fans will think it’s going somewhere

I agree Oda had bad planning for plot lines all throughout Wano… But not for Zoro… He knew exactly what he was doing with Zoro… He knew Zoro was not gonna avenge Yasu when he wrote that panel of Zoro saying he wants to avenge Yasu… he knew all these things, and he intentionally wanted fans to feel some type of way when they didn’t happen

I almost forgot about Yasu

 

[Blazing Lion]

I think the main problem is that many Zoro fans had high expectations about Zoro's lineage, his character development etc etc during Wano and thats why you/they are so disappointed.

Luckily enough i knew that Oda treats Zoro (esp post ts) as your typical badass support protagonist w/o focusing too much on him and i had no problem with what happened, besides from the Ryuma thing.

Same here, though I was bewitched by the ZKK essays.

@ImmaIvanoM idk how you looked at that fight, at the end to drive the point home we get an editor's note specifically saying that even dragons can be slain by a single strike. On top of that the new Ryuma/Monsters anime has the same name as Zoro's finisher. What this clearly implies imo is that Zoro indeed went past what he set out to do, cutting Kaido, or at least accomplishing similar feat.

There is no character arc for Zoro, Oda never said that Wano was Zoro's arc, people only assumed this shit on their own since WCI is said to be Sanji's arc. Could Oda have made Wano a Zoro focused arc? Yes, should he? No, it's his story and he can do whatever the fuck he wants, he wants to mislead readers, he can do it all he wants.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Same here, though I was bewitched by the ZKK essays.

@ImmaIvanoM idk how you looked at that fight, at the end to drive the point home we get an editor's note specifically saying that even dragons can be slain by a single strike. On top of that the new Ryuma/Monsters anime has the same name as Zoro's finisher. What this clearly implies imo is that Zoro indeed went past what he set out to do, cutting Kaido, or at least accomplishing similar feat.

There is no character arc for Zoro, Oda never said that Wano was Zoro's arc, people only assumed this shit on their own since WCI is said to be Sanji's arc. Could Oda have made Wano a Zoro focused arc? Yes, should he? No, it's his story and he can do whatever the fuck he wants, he wants to mislead readers, he can do it all he wants.

Cutting FLAME OFF KING, IS NOT a similar feat to cutting Kaido… Stop making shit up

You’re right, Oda can do whatever the fuck he wants, and that’s why he objectively wrote Zoro worse in Wano than thriller bark… I can point to objective methods of basic writing that Oda completely failed to do

Zoro is objectively a worse character because of Wano. That’s Oda’s choice. He made Zoro a bad character. And it’s entirely within this right to make a bad story.

 

[Aldarion]

He is above average by OP standards, but I'd rate him as below average by general shonen standards... though, my standards being based around D.Gray Man, I might be way too harsh here.

So I'll give him a four, I think. He has a decent design, decent backstory, OK personality, but none of that is exceptional or particularly deep.

 

[Blazing Lion]

Cutting FLAME OFF KING, IS NOT a similar feat to cutting Kaido… Stop making shit up

You’re right, Oda can do whatever the fuck he wants, and that’s why he objectively wrote Zoro worse in Wano than thriller bark… I can point to objective methods of basic writing that Oda completely failed to do

Zoro is objectively a worse character because of Wano. That’s Oda’s choice. He made Zoro a bad character. And it’s entirely within this right to make a bad story.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

…

you know what’s hilarious, not only are editor notes NOT canon and of course have nothing to do with Oda’s opinions on anything… They aren’t even in volumes

It is amazing that in 150 chapters the one and only meaningful thing some people can claim Zoro is some non-canon shit

Anyway, good job on Oda writing the longest arc in One piece… he truly mad everyone remember that it’s his story and it’s his choice to write the literal worst war arc I’ve ever read in Shonen

 

[Topi Jerami]

Because he only has one plot relevant moment after thriller bark, and is him bowing to Mihawk, with all that that gesture means and implies.
After that, Zoro is only a cool guy doing cool things.

Babysitting Wicca in Dressrosa
Being the only one clowned with 3D2Y puzzle right before the timeskip
Clowning Sanji with #7 in return to Sabaody arc

I won't consider that as "cool guy doing cool things".

 

[ThunderSupernova]

B-but the alleged "best written character"?
Where is he?
I don't see him in the chart, weird given his exceptional wonderful unparalleled characterization...

Hm, sounds like he is the "best written character" only for his few sisters...

And yet the "boring" Zoro is here...

As usual, people try to make as it their delusional takes are shared by the majority of the community, when in truth they are in the utter minority

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1691728747194618353

 

[Aldarion]

B-but the alleged "best written character"?
Where is he?
I don't see him in the chart, weird given his exceptional wonderful unparalleled characterization...

Hm, sounds like he is the "best written character" only for his few sisters...

And yet the "boring" Zoro is here...

As usual, people try to make as it their delusional takes are shared by the majority of the community, when in truth they are in the utter minority

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1691728747194618353

Most popular does not mean "best written". Denethor is easily one of best written characters in Lord of the Rings, yet he is definitely not that popular. Allen Walker is probably the best written protagonist in any manga I have read, yet he is not on these lists:
https://www.one37pm.com/popular-culture/best-anime-protagonists - has Izuku Midoriya, who is not a well written character at all, but no Allen Walker
https://japan-geeks.com/best-anime-protagonists/ - why is Son Goku at the top? He has no character, though I'll admit it has been a decade since I've watched anything Dragon Ball Z. Still, I remembered General White more than I did Goku.

So yeah.

 

[Blazing Lion]

…

you know what’s hilarious, not only are editor notes NOT canon and of course have nothing to do with Oda’s opinions on anything… They aren’t even in volumes

It is amazing that in 150 chapters the one and only meaningful thing some people can claim Zoro is some non-canon shit

Anyway, good job on Oda writing the longest arc in One piece… he truly mad everyone remember that it’s his story and it’s his choice to write the literal worst war arc I’ve ever read in Shonen

The hint was not enough apparently, care to explain this:

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

The hint was not enough apparently, care to explain this:

This amounts to nothing since Zoro then says he can’t damage lunarians with flame mode on

Zoro says this himself

also THIS DOESNT MATTER

Zoro never cut Flame mode king. It factually didn’t happen in the manga so editor notes don’t matter as IT NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED

This argument is you claiming that Oda is supposedly writing Zoro with any level of care… that Oda intentionally has Zoro fail to do anything he ever wants in a 150 chapter long arc so that Oda can claim Zoro cutting King is a bigger deal than anything Zoro said he wanted

Zoro wants to visit Ryuma’s grave?

Oda: “no no no, who cares about that, Zoro cut king, this is better than that thing Zoro said he wants to do”

Zoro wants to avenge Yasu

Oda: “no no no, who cares about that, Zoro cut king, this is better than that thing Zoro said he wants to do”

Zoro wants to cut down Kaido?

Oda: “no no no, who cares about that, Zoro cut king, this is better than that thing Zoro said he wants to do”

Zoro wants to gather the samurai?

Oda: “no no no, who cares about that, Zoro cut king, this is better than that thing Zoro said he wants to do”

Zoro wants Nidai Kitetsu?

Oda: “no no no, who cares about that, Zoro cut king, this is better than that thing Zoro said he wants to do”

This is your argument. That actually Wano was good arc for Zoro because despite him doing nothing he wants, this one thing, cutting King compensates for an arc of failure

YET ZORO NEVER CUTS FLAME MODE KING EVER

Your entire claim for that Oda is justified in wasting 150 chapters for Zoro is based on SOMETHING HE NEVER FUCKING DID