Powers & Abilities Zoro and the Scabbards

[ImmaIvanoM]

That's because Heitetsu clearly stated that his posession of Wado Ichimonji helped him to control Enma easier.

Actually no, the official doesn’t say anything about Zoro “possessing” Wado and that helping

The official says Zoro’s “familiarity” with Wado is what helps... As in Zoro has been training with high tier swords from age 10 and moreover he’s been training with a sister sword to Enma no less so he can get used to Enma fast since he’s essentially been practicing for it for the last decade of his life

The difference between that and what you’re saying is that in your scenario, if you remove Wado from Zoro, Zoro magically loses the ability to control Enma somehow

Post automatically merged: Sep 24, 2019

Fishman Island Zoro is the same Zoro that we seeing now and Enma brings nothing to the table unless shown otherwise.
Zoro is simply too strong and restrained by plot to make Luffy look good.

Nahh that’s definitely not true... the man pumps weights EVERY DAY

 

[Rivaille]

@ZenZu as a Zoro fans I’m more than willing to accept the narrative that Zoro did not came out of the TS stronger than Luffy or as strong as Doflamingo. When Zorojuro Vivre Card came out and we learned that Zoro was fighting assassins on daily basis,I said that it is Oda’s way to explain that Zoro’s grow.

1/It is more organic and it correlates with the character personality (Zoro is always training)

2/I think that when Oda start an arc he always see the gap between the M3 to be the same

The issue is that the general consensus in community is that Zoro did not grow because the only way to grow is to have extrem-diff fight. The direct consequence of this narrative is to say that Zoro is Vet level and that Luffy can roflstomp him. From this point there are two roads:

-Either Zoro will make a huge jump from vet level to YC1 level (which is not really realistic)
-Either Zoro came out of the timeskip at least at YC2 thus stronger than Luffy

Obviously some Zoro’s fans took the second option for obvious reasons.

So yeah until people will defend the idea that Zoro did not grow until the TS you will have people saying that he came out of the TS stronger than Luffy.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

@ZenZu as a Zoro fans I’m more than willing to accept the narrative that Zoro did not came out of the TS stronger than Luffy or as strong as Doflamingo. When Zorojuro Vivre Card came out and we learned that Zoro was fighting assassins on daily basis,I said that it is Oda’s way to explain that Zoro’s grow.

1/It is more organic and it correlates with the character personality (Zoro is always training)

2/I think that when Oda start an arc he always see the gap between the M3 to be the same

The issue is that the general consensus in community is that Zoro did not grow because the only way to grow is to have extrem-diff fight. The direct consequence of this narrative is to say that Zoro is Vet level and that Luffy can roflstomp him. From this point there are two roads:

-Either Zoro will make a huge jump from vet level to YC1 level (which is not really realistic)
-Either Zoro came out of the timeskip at least at YC2 thus stronger than Luffy

Obviously some Zoro’s fans took the second option for obvious reasons.

So yeah until people will defend the idea that Zoro did not grow until the TS you will have people saying that he came out of the TS stronger than Luffy.

Well I say Zoro just pumps weights ALL THE TIME and trains ALL THE TIME so he’s literally perpetually getting stronger with or without high diff fights or even on screen training

I mean training is a legitimate way to get stronger however uninteresting it is for people to admit it... Just coz Oda does want to show Zoro pumping weights all day it’s still FACTUALLY CANON that Zoro does this every day, (unless he’s fighting off bandits whatever like you said)

So as far as I can tell, Zoro is set up to be however strong the plot needs him to be at any given time... If Luffy gets props for training for two weeks, you can’t pretend Zoro training for Months since the time skip started amounts to literally nothing

Oda decided out of nowhere that Zoro can cut a mountain and there it happened... Oda decided Zoro can low diff Killer, and there’s it happened... And then decided that Zoro is already stronger than the Scabbards with the whole Enma business and it happened... You can argue how strong was Zoro from the start of time skip for him to jus be above the scabbards all of a sudden but Oda already protected himself... He’s proven for a fact that even two weeks of training can make Luffy rise in tiers and it’s once again FACTUALLY CANON that Zoro is always training whether Oda decides to show it or not so that training is all he needs to justify whatever Zoro does at whatever time... In the end, Oda can make Zoro as strong as he wants whenever he wants

 

[Bogard]

Ashura Doji could do this to Jack while breaking his shotei blades that didn't get scrathed once during his raid on Zou with Inuarashi/Nekomamushi switching with each other

Spoiler

Had this level of portrayal

Spoiler

Was used as Oden's hypetool(who could injure Kaido)

Spoiler

He also fought Kaido later(with Denjiro) and survived, with Kaido himself remembering him for his strength, hyping his strength and wanting him to be in his crew too badly

People like to speculate about what Zoro can do, will do, or whatever, but that's irrelevant. Zoro is currently lacking in feats and portrayal comparatively to people on the yonko commander tier. The Enma Control had more to do with haki control and potential. It didn't prove he is stronger than Shutenmaru yet.

All it proved is that he has the potential to be stronger than him, stronger than even Oden for the matter since he is bound to create a black blade that Oden didn't manage to create, but changes nothing as far as his current standing is concerned outside of the potential training growth he got from training with Enma and haki

That moment was the only moment since the timeskip that Oda clearly portrayed his growth by Zoro's own wordings. Coincidently it's also the first time we saw him train since the timeskip. There is nothing else to prove he grew stronger, and timeskip Zoro was below Luffy. After his training however, his haki control, haki strength(offense/defense), lethality/attack power could be greatly increased, upgrading his level, with the level of growth making him beyond the level he was pre-training

 

[Ice devil slayer]

Ashura Doji could do this to Jack while breaking his shotei blades that didn't get scrathed once during his raid on Zou with Inuarashi/Nekomamushi switching with each other

Spoiler

Had this level of portrayal

Spoiler

Was used as Oden's hypetool(who could injure Kaido)

Spoiler

He also fought Kaido later(with Denjiro) and survived, with Kaido himself remembering him for his strength, hyping his strength and wanting him to be in his crew too badly

People like to speculate about what Zoro can do, will do, or whatever, but that's irrelevant. Zoro is currently lacking in feats and portrayal comparatively to people on the yonko commander tier. The Enma Control had more to do with haki control and potential. It didn't prove he is stronger than Shutenmaru yet.

All it proved is that he has the potential to be stronger than him, stronger than even Oden for the matter since he is bound to create a black blade that Oden didn't manage to create, but changes nothing as far as his current standing is concerned outside of the potential training growth he got from training with Enma and haki

That moment was the only moment since the timeskip that Oda clearly portrayed his growth by Zoro's own wordings. Coincidently it's also the first time we saw him train since the timeskip. There is nothing else to prove he grew stronger, and timeskip Zoro was below Luffy. After his training however, his haki control, haki strength(offense/defense), lethality/attack power could be greatly increased, upgrading his level, with the level of growth making him beyond the level he was pre-training

Zoro can do everything Ashura can do

 

[Bogard]

Zoro can do everything Ashura can do

In two piece maybe, in one piece, Ashura can fight commander level opponents and even Kaido while Zoro is busy fainting from opponents below that level

 

[Sade]

Ashura is being portrayed to be equal to Inu without a leg

There is no way a nameless slash is stronger than Any of Zoro's strongest attacks.


Kawatasu tried to sneak attack Zoro, nothing happened, and Kawa is on Ashura tier.


Jack failed and got speedblitzed.


Zoro > Jack by feats using manga panels.

@Bogard Killer can fight even Kaido for a while.

Ashura vs Base Jack was like 3 panels.

 

[OmegaPsyche]

Why are people pretending Zoro won't leave the Wano Samurai with their mouths open whenever witnessing Zoro's attacks?

Shitenmaru will shit himself when he will realize how strong Zoro is.

 

[Ice devil slayer]

In two piece maybe, in one piece, Ashura can fight commander level opponents and even Kaido while Zoro is busy fainting from opponents below that level

In one piece lol
Zoro fainted because he was in a 2vs1 situation and nerfed stop using that moment lmfao..he still one shotted Killer

Zoro's feats against Pica shits on everything Ashura did

Poor Jack would've had his ass cut trying to tank an Isds

 

[Rivaille]

Ashura Doji could do this to Jack while breaking his shotei blades that didn't get scrathed once during his raid on Zou with Inuarashi/Nekomamushi switching with each other

Spoiler

Had this level of portrayal

Spoiler

Was used as Oden's hypetool(who could injure Kaido)

Spoiler

He also fought Kaido later(with Denjiro) and survived, with Kaido himself remembering him for his strength, hyping his strength and wanting him to be in his crew too badly

People like to speculate about what Zoro can do, will do, or whatever, but that's irrelevant. Zoro is currently lacking in feats and portrayal comparatively to people on the yonko commander tier. The Enma Control had more to do with haki control and potential. It didn't prove he is stronger than Shutenmaru yet.

All it proved is that he has the potential to be stronger than him, stronger than even Oden for the matter since he is bound to create a black blade that Oden didn't manage to create, but changes nothing as far as his current standing is concerned outside of the potential training growth he got from training with Enma and haki

That moment was the only moment since the timeskip that Oda clearly portrayed his growth by Zoro's own wordings. Coincidently it's also the first time we saw him train since the timeskip. There is nothing else to prove he grew stronger, and timeskip Zoro was below Luffy. After his training however, his haki control, haki strength(offense/defense), lethality/attack power could be greatly increased, upgrading his level, with the level of growth making him beyond the level he was pre-training

How cutting Jack is better than pushing Fujitora back?
How having a skirmish with Jack is better than having a skirmish with Fujitora and get out of it unscathed?
How having a skirmish with Inuarashi is better than cutting down a mountain?

I really don’t get it.

 

[Bogard]

Ashura is being portrayed to be equal to Inu without a leg

There is no way a nameless slash is stronger than Any of Zoro's strongest attacks.


Kawatasu tried to sneak attack Zoro, nothing happened, and Kawa is on Ashura tier.


Jack failed and got speedblitzed


Zoro > Jack by feats

The missing leg isn't an handicap to Inu because he can levitate/fly and it was a spar. All it proved is that they were around the same level. It didn't show who would win if they went for the kill

We know now that all the scabbards are from the same generation and Ashura Doji, Kawamatsu and Denjiro were always portrayed as Oden's top 3 with Ashura Doji/Denjiro fighting Kaido directly when Inuarashi/Nekomamushi wwere busy getting captured by Orochi's subordinates.

Kawamatsu just intended to throw a weapon on someone he thought was fodder. It is as valid as Sanji dodging Katakuri's fodder slaying move in WCI

 

[Sade]

The missing leg isn't an handicap to Inu because he can levitate/fly and it was a spar. All it proved is that they were around the same level. It didn't show who would win if they went for the kill

We know now that all the scabbards are from the same generation and Ashura Doji, Kawamatsu and Denjiro were always portrayed as Oden's top 3 with Ashura Doji/Denjiro fighting Kaido directly when Inuarashi/Nekomamushi wwere busy getting captured by Orochi's subordinates.

Kawamatsu just intended to throw a weapon on someone he thought was fodder. It is as valid as Sanji dodging Katakuri's fodder slaying move in WCI

Well I guess I've to wait the end of Wano for Zoro being stronger than Ashura.

One Chapter before Zoro's main fight, Ashura will be stronger than him.
After that Chapter Zoro will finally surpass him, going from being Top Vet level, to top Yonko Commander level.

With Enma giving him massive Boost in Stamina, endurance, speed etc..

@Rivaille Our boy will go from being weaker than Ashura to reach or even surpass prime Oden level


He will grow faster than Coby

 

[HA001]

Thats a cop out bogard. If shutenmaru was that strong he would be able to use enma. The tengu made it simple. And after a few days is Already talking about surpassing oden. You cant even bring yourself to say zoros haki is outright better even though it clearly is.

 

[OmegaPsyche]

Zoro dismantled Pica, who is vet lvl, yet people claim Zoro is vet lvl. The hatin' is real.
Vets are crap, Zoro solos them with 2 swords.

 

[Ice devil slayer]

Zoro's mountain feats shits on everything the scabbards did

 

[Inspector_Mu]

For Now Zoro is below Dukes and Ashura
With mastering Enma he will surpass them
We have yet to see Zoro vs commander
Dukes/Shuten can fight jack on par
Zoro is busy getting matched by a fox.... Emma wont magically push him way above them , he will be barely YC2/3 Like how G4 luffy was YC2/3 without FS.

He wont surpass Oden this arc!!!
Zoro wont get black blade until EoS

 

[Ice devil slayer]

For Now Zoro is below Dukes and Ashura
With mastering Enma he will surpass them
We have yet to see Zoro vs commander
Dukes/Shuten can fight jack on par
Zoro is busy getting matched by a fox.... Emma wont magically push him way above them , he will be barely YC2/3 Like how G4 luffy was YC2/3 without FS.

He wont surpass Oden this arc!!!
Zoro wont get black blade until EoS

Why is he below them ?

 

[HA001]

For Now Zoro is below Dukes and Ashura
With mastering Enma he will surpass them
We have yet to see Zoro vs commander
Dukes/Shuten can fight jack on par
Zoro is busy getting matched by a fox.... Emma wont magically push him way above them , he will be barely YC2/3 Like how G4 luffy was YC2/3 without FS.

He wont surpass Oden this arc!!!
Zoro wont get black blade until EoS

He mastered it at the end of the chapter

 

[Inspector_Mu]

Zoro dismantled Pica, who is vet lvl, yet people claim Zoro is vet lvl. The hatin' is real.
Vets are crap, Zoro solos them with 2 swords.

Since when was Pica vet level?
Who did pica beat? What are his feats?

A Veteran was able to damage a whole crew (with wadatsumi whom Jinbei and Sanji combined defeated) , easily put down sulong pekoms. He is a tank.

A veteran cut fleets with one swing.

A top veteran (who is YC4) was able to easily restrain big father, block it offense, no diff pedro and tank a bomb. While not going all out

Stop placing Pica who even failed to beat a weak gladiator, same level as Daifuku/Oven.

Post automatically merged: Sep 24, 2019

Zoro dismantled Pica, who is vet lvl, yet people claim Zoro is vet lvl. The hatin' is real.
Vets are crap, Zoro solos them with 2 swords.

Since when was Pica vet level?
Who did pica beat? What are his feats?

A Veteran was able to damage a whole crew (with wadatsumi whom Jinbei and Sanji combined defeated) , easily put down sulong pekoms. He is a tank.

A veteran cut fleets with one swing.

A top veteran (who is YC4) was able to easily restrain big father, block it offense, no diff pedro and tank a bomb. While not going all out

Stop placing Pica who even failed to beat a weak gladiator, same level as Daifuku/Oven.

 

[Ice devil slayer]

Zoro clashing with Fujitora and>>Clashing with jack

Zoro easily cutting a mountain>>Anything Shutenmaru ever did

Also why are you acting like Zoro wouldn't be able to cut jack the same way Ashura did