What's good y'all another short thread about a group that I consider to be top 3 antagonist of One Piece when it comes to writing. Rather than a full on analysis of their character specifically, this thread is just little bit analyzing the themes of their characters and their role throughout the story. So I hope you all enjoy this.
Establishing the Theme:
The main theme that is correlated to the Celestial Dragons in general is that of Gods. This theme is really established by Oda from Sabody Park, where we get our first intro to the normal CD (remember hadn't revealed the Gorosei to be CD yet), and the way they normal CD are addressed with the title of "Saint".
And right off the bat we get that they don't even consider themselves to be humans. The way they talk about humans is that they're a whole different species compared to them.
Earlier in Ennis Lobby, the World Government is referred to as something that symbolizes the entire World. And the ones who created that World Government are referred to as the "Creators" the original 20 Monarchs. Similar to the mythological stories of the world being created by various Gods, this is sort of a similar reference where these 20 Monarchs are the creators of the World, because the World is defined by the World Government. And their descendants as Doflamingo stated, rule the world.
This idea further gets cemented during the Reverie when Lucci directly states, the Celestial Dragons are the Gods of this world and that distinction between humans/people from the lower realm.
This idea of lower realm is stated again by the Gorosei in chapter 908.
Now what is the Lower Realm? Well it's pretty much the entire world below Marijoa. Every single place in the world that is not Marijoa is the "lower realm". This is idea is stemming from Gods residing in Mount Olympus and looking down at the mere mortals of the world. Which is why "SACRED Marijoa" is located high into the clouds, maybe even the highest point in the world.
Then even Oda draws Sabo running away from them, their image is like Gods/Devils/Demons looking right at Sabo. With Imu drawn in that "almighty overseeing god" type of a fashion.
Then we get the official titles of the Gorosei themselves following the above scene... and they are what? Godhead/Warrior God. It's a very similar concept to Berserk's Godhands & the "Idea of Evil" God. 1 Supreme God (Imu) and 5 underling gods (Gorosei) who carry out his will. Bleach also implemented sort of something similar with Soul King & Squad 0.
And to give it a cherry on top of the cake... Oda gave them a new weapon called "Seraphim", a biblical reference.
Being Gods in the Story
In a thread before I've talked about how the Yonko/Admirals/Warlords/etc didn't matter as long as they exist. So borrowing somethings from that thread, we're going to explore that more and see how Oda makes them be Gods.
Let's start off with the façade they created with the Balance of the Three Great Powers. Upon Roger's death, there was a great turbulence on the seas, aka fuck ton of chaos. In order to curb that chaos, the Gorosei created a system call the Balance of the three great powers. In which they decided to make an organization called the Warlords, where they would recruit INFLUENTIAL pirates (not necessarily the most powerful).
Among the Warlords, they decided to recruit a former CD known as Doflamingo. Now, many in the fandom believe that Doffy blackmailed them with the National Treasure into becoming a Warlord, that's not what happened. The Celestial Dragon made continuous attempts to try and kill him, they sent the Marijoa Knights after him, they then had Sengoku making plans to try and capture him, but each time they close he kept escaping. Doflamingo then attacked a ship that had Heavenly Tribute and used that as a negotiation tool to become a Warlord, we're talking about money in the billions of berri.
So the Gorosei take him in and make him into a Warlord, and decide to give him the Kingdom of Dressrosa, as it was "originally" Doffy's ancestors. Then Doflamingo sets up an insane network which the Gorosei themselves help Doflamingo with. Hence, they did the news manipulation with CP0. Why? Because Doflamingo network was being used to make deals with Emperors on behalf of the Gorosei, without the Marines knowing. It was used to supply weapons to World Government countries that were fighting against the Revolutionaries. It was one of the best tools that the Gorosei had for maintaining their "Three Great Powers" system.
However, pre-TS, the Gorosei were starting to doubt the effectiveness of the Three Powers system with Whitebeard's downfall leading to more chaos on the seas. (Which is where the Seraphim and that weapon that they're using come in). So the "Three Great Powers" system is not something that magically happened due to natural reasons, no it's a deliberate system that the Gorosei created to make the seas as less chaotic as possible. WHY? Because less chaos= better control. That is why they even had CP0 support BM & Kaido.
The Yonko:
Many believe that the Gorosei get scared of the Yonko. When they were sweating because of Shanks - WB's meeting or talking about "Enraging Kaido", that they're scared of the Yonko. And this is sheer mind blowing to me.
- Deals with Kaido & even supporting him in the War against the new generation
- Accepting Shanks' meeting request to discuss about a pirate
- Possible deals with Big Mom through Stussy & Doflamingo
When JuPeter is sweating here cause of Newgate & Shanks made contact, it's an indicator of worry. And why? Because they don't want Chaos in their seas. Guess what happens when two emperors fight and one gets defeated? There's a power vacuum. We saw it with Roger's death, We saw it with Newgate's death, the seas get filled with chaotic criminals. And after Kaido-BM's death, the seas are more chaotic than ever with Cross Guild, Teach, Shanks all making their moves now along with the new generation.
Then this panel that people constantly use how the Gorosei were shitting themselves because they asked if they had their priorities straight. Like no duh they would ask that. They sacrificed one of their best agents and enraged one of their business partners who might start making a mess on the seas. This is how you know mfs never been in politics or experienced about it. I would expect the Gorosei, who rule the world, to worry about things that impact the world they rule...
Big Mom & Kaido believed they had to team up + Create an insane military base by transforming Wano into a pure military producing base + retrieve the 3 Ancient Weapons in order to take over the world aka beat the World Government. And that's just their belief based on not even knowing about the Gorosei's powers or Imu or the Seraphim or even knowing how strong some of the new marines are or the insane weapon they have... And not a single mothafucking Yonko in this entire manga has ever come close to that power.
So yes the Gorosei get worried about criminals when they cause chaos in the world they rule, because they don't want Chaos, because chaos creates variables that you cannot control. The less uncontrollable variables there are the better. The Gorosei ain't tripping about no Yonko because "Oh noooo they might come and kill us!!! Oh nooo... Kaido might come and 1-shot us since we made him mad"... like no bruh. None of these mfs can even sniff the Gorosei, let alone actually pose a threat to them.
Are the Yonko a threat to the Gorosei? No
Are the Yonko one of the tools the Gorosei used? Yes
Are the Gorosei cautious of the Yonko? Yes
Why are they cautious of the Yonko? Because they're thugs who can cause chaos to their order
Hence they never attacked the yonko directly. But the person they do consider a threat and want removed as fast as they can, Luffy's father, they sent CP0+ A marine fleet on his ass the second they found out his location lmao. Because that's what you do, when you want somebody eliminated. Because that's what you do when you believe somebody is a big threat to you that you can't risk leaving alone.
The Admirals/HolyKnights:
The concept of the Admirals is very similar to Gods choosing their heroes who then carry out their wills. That's what the Admirals are to the Gorosei, they're their "heroes" or "Champions" of the Lower Realm. They handle the issues that arise in the lower realm on their behalf.
They're the Gorosei's extension of power to the lower realm. Because remember the Gorosei themselves don't showcase their powers at all. With the likelihood being that only the Fleet Admiral/CiC actually know about them being monsters in power, and maybe not even that.
The Holy Knights would be the "Army of the Gods" you can say in simpler manner. They're the ones on the surface level atleast, justifying why people obey the CD. Because if you don't obey them, the Holy Knights is coming after that ass. But unlike the Admirals/Marines they don't interfere much with the matters of the lower realm.
Conclusion:
They want to wipe out an entire Island? They'll do it now without winking an eye. Why? Because it's the damn lower realm, who cares. First they showcased it with Ohara, and now with Lulusia Kingdom
And when they decide they can't maintain the Equilibrium of the world.. what happens? Oh yup, it's time to start cleansing mfs.
They command:
- 8 Marine top tiers (Chaton, Gion, Tensei, Saka, Kizaru, GB, Sengoku, Fujitora)
- Fuck ton of strong Vice Admirals
- Commander in Chief Kong
- Holy Knights, with unknown powerlevels
- Millions of soldiers
- 150+ countries
- Insane amount of resources
- Insane amount of wealth, that they literally spend 500 mil berri randomly
- Pacifista Army
- Seraphim (potential to be all top tiers)
- An Island removing weapon
When you have that much power under you, you're essentially Gods of the world. Some thug in the New World with a single Island isn't gone do shit to you. One of your champions in the lower realm leaving your side, isn't gone do shit to you. Losing some islands here and there, isn't gone do some shit to you.
These are people who stand beyond the likes of Roger/Newgate/Garp/Sengoku/etc etc who played little marine and pirate games in the New World, they're all "lower realm". To me it goes without saying the Gods who run the world, stand at a level beyond that of a "Pirate King". However, there will rise new figures from this new generation of stars who will challenge these Gods and surpass the generations before them.
That generation being headed by the man with the Strawhat. And even then the amount of firepower it'll take to overthrow these Gods will be something that'd been accumulating over generations, not just some crew led by 1 guy. The RA/ "good marines/ Many nations/ Ancient Weapon poseidon/ Possibly giants of Elbaf/ Wano home of seastone/ SHP/ other pirate crews maybe and so much more.
--------------------------
ANYWHO SHORT THREAD ON THE GOROSEI AND THEIR GOD THEME IN THE SERIES.
PLEASE SHARE YOUR DISAGREEMENTS AND AGREEMENTS OR ANY OTHER OPINIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE.
Establishing the Theme:
The main theme that is correlated to the Celestial Dragons in general is that of Gods. This theme is really established by Oda from Sabody Park, where we get our first intro to the normal CD (remember hadn't revealed the Gorosei to be CD yet), and the way they normal CD are addressed with the title of "Saint".
And right off the bat we get that they don't even consider themselves to be humans. The way they talk about humans is that they're a whole different species compared to them.
Earlier in Ennis Lobby, the World Government is referred to as something that symbolizes the entire World. And the ones who created that World Government are referred to as the "Creators" the original 20 Monarchs. Similar to the mythological stories of the world being created by various Gods, this is sort of a similar reference where these 20 Monarchs are the creators of the World, because the World is defined by the World Government. And their descendants as Doflamingo stated, rule the world.
This idea further gets cemented during the Reverie when Lucci directly states, the Celestial Dragons are the Gods of this world and that distinction between humans/people from the lower realm.
This idea of lower realm is stated again by the Gorosei in chapter 908.
Now what is the Lower Realm? Well it's pretty much the entire world below Marijoa. Every single place in the world that is not Marijoa is the "lower realm". This is idea is stemming from Gods residing in Mount Olympus and looking down at the mere mortals of the world. Which is why "SACRED Marijoa" is located high into the clouds, maybe even the highest point in the world.
Then even Oda draws Sabo running away from them, their image is like Gods/Devils/Demons looking right at Sabo. With Imu drawn in that "almighty overseeing god" type of a fashion.
Then we get the official titles of the Gorosei themselves following the above scene... and they are what? Godhead/Warrior God. It's a very similar concept to Berserk's Godhands & the "Idea of Evil" God. 1 Supreme God (Imu) and 5 underling gods (Gorosei) who carry out his will. Bleach also implemented sort of something similar with Soul King & Squad 0.
And to give it a cherry on top of the cake... Oda gave them a new weapon called "Seraphim", a biblical reference.
Being Gods in the Story
In a thread before I've talked about how the Yonko/Admirals/Warlords/etc didn't matter as long as they exist. So borrowing somethings from that thread, we're going to explore that more and see how Oda makes them be Gods.
Let's start off with the façade they created with the Balance of the Three Great Powers. Upon Roger's death, there was a great turbulence on the seas, aka fuck ton of chaos. In order to curb that chaos, the Gorosei created a system call the Balance of the three great powers. In which they decided to make an organization called the Warlords, where they would recruit INFLUENTIAL pirates (not necessarily the most powerful).
Among the Warlords, they decided to recruit a former CD known as Doflamingo. Now, many in the fandom believe that Doffy blackmailed them with the National Treasure into becoming a Warlord, that's not what happened. The Celestial Dragon made continuous attempts to try and kill him, they sent the Marijoa Knights after him, they then had Sengoku making plans to try and capture him, but each time they close he kept escaping. Doflamingo then attacked a ship that had Heavenly Tribute and used that as a negotiation tool to become a Warlord, we're talking about money in the billions of berri.
So the Gorosei take him in and make him into a Warlord, and decide to give him the Kingdom of Dressrosa, as it was "originally" Doffy's ancestors. Then Doflamingo sets up an insane network which the Gorosei themselves help Doflamingo with. Hence, they did the news manipulation with CP0. Why? Because Doflamingo network was being used to make deals with Emperors on behalf of the Gorosei, without the Marines knowing. It was used to supply weapons to World Government countries that were fighting against the Revolutionaries. It was one of the best tools that the Gorosei had for maintaining their "Three Great Powers" system.
However, pre-TS, the Gorosei were starting to doubt the effectiveness of the Three Powers system with Whitebeard's downfall leading to more chaos on the seas. (Which is where the Seraphim and that weapon that they're using come in). So the "Three Great Powers" system is not something that magically happened due to natural reasons, no it's a deliberate system that the Gorosei created to make the seas as less chaotic as possible. WHY? Because less chaos= better control. That is why they even had CP0 support BM & Kaido.
The Yonko:
Many believe that the Gorosei get scared of the Yonko. When they were sweating because of Shanks - WB's meeting or talking about "Enraging Kaido", that they're scared of the Yonko. And this is sheer mind blowing to me.
- Deals with Kaido & even supporting him in the War against the new generation
- Accepting Shanks' meeting request to discuss about a pirate
- Possible deals with Big Mom through Stussy & Doflamingo
When JuPeter is sweating here cause of Newgate & Shanks made contact, it's an indicator of worry. And why? Because they don't want Chaos in their seas. Guess what happens when two emperors fight and one gets defeated? There's a power vacuum. We saw it with Roger's death, We saw it with Newgate's death, the seas get filled with chaotic criminals. And after Kaido-BM's death, the seas are more chaotic than ever with Cross Guild, Teach, Shanks all making their moves now along with the new generation.
Then this panel that people constantly use how the Gorosei were shitting themselves because they asked if they had their priorities straight. Like no duh they would ask that. They sacrificed one of their best agents and enraged one of their business partners who might start making a mess on the seas. This is how you know mfs never been in politics or experienced about it. I would expect the Gorosei, who rule the world, to worry about things that impact the world they rule...
Big Mom & Kaido believed they had to team up + Create an insane military base by transforming Wano into a pure military producing base + retrieve the 3 Ancient Weapons in order to take over the world aka beat the World Government. And that's just their belief based on not even knowing about the Gorosei's powers or Imu or the Seraphim or even knowing how strong some of the new marines are or the insane weapon they have... And not a single mothafucking Yonko in this entire manga has ever come close to that power.
So yes the Gorosei get worried about criminals when they cause chaos in the world they rule, because they don't want Chaos, because chaos creates variables that you cannot control. The less uncontrollable variables there are the better. The Gorosei ain't tripping about no Yonko because "Oh noooo they might come and kill us!!! Oh nooo... Kaido might come and 1-shot us since we made him mad"... like no bruh. None of these mfs can even sniff the Gorosei, let alone actually pose a threat to them.
Are the Yonko a threat to the Gorosei? No
Are the Yonko one of the tools the Gorosei used? Yes
Are the Gorosei cautious of the Yonko? Yes
Why are they cautious of the Yonko? Because they're thugs who can cause chaos to their order
Hence they never attacked the yonko directly. But the person they do consider a threat and want removed as fast as they can, Luffy's father, they sent CP0+ A marine fleet on his ass the second they found out his location lmao. Because that's what you do, when you want somebody eliminated. Because that's what you do when you believe somebody is a big threat to you that you can't risk leaving alone.
The Admirals/HolyKnights:
The concept of the Admirals is very similar to Gods choosing their heroes who then carry out their wills. That's what the Admirals are to the Gorosei, they're their "heroes" or "Champions" of the Lower Realm. They handle the issues that arise in the lower realm on their behalf.
They're the Gorosei's extension of power to the lower realm. Because remember the Gorosei themselves don't showcase their powers at all. With the likelihood being that only the Fleet Admiral/CiC actually know about them being monsters in power, and maybe not even that.
The Holy Knights would be the "Army of the Gods" you can say in simpler manner. They're the ones on the surface level atleast, justifying why people obey the CD. Because if you don't obey them, the Holy Knights is coming after that ass. But unlike the Admirals/Marines they don't interfere much with the matters of the lower realm.
Conclusion:
They want to wipe out an entire Island? They'll do it now without winking an eye. Why? Because it's the damn lower realm, who cares. First they showcased it with Ohara, and now with Lulusia Kingdom
And when they decide they can't maintain the Equilibrium of the world.. what happens? Oh yup, it's time to start cleansing mfs.
They command:
- 8 Marine top tiers (Chaton, Gion, Tensei, Saka, Kizaru, GB, Sengoku, Fujitora)
- Fuck ton of strong Vice Admirals
- Commander in Chief Kong
- Holy Knights, with unknown powerlevels
- Millions of soldiers
- 150+ countries
- Insane amount of resources
- Insane amount of wealth, that they literally spend 500 mil berri randomly
- Pacifista Army
- Seraphim (potential to be all top tiers)
- An Island removing weapon
When you have that much power under you, you're essentially Gods of the world. Some thug in the New World with a single Island isn't gone do shit to you. One of your champions in the lower realm leaving your side, isn't gone do shit to you. Losing some islands here and there, isn't gone do some shit to you.
These are people who stand beyond the likes of Roger/Newgate/Garp/Sengoku/etc etc who played little marine and pirate games in the New World, they're all "lower realm". To me it goes without saying the Gods who run the world, stand at a level beyond that of a "Pirate King". However, there will rise new figures from this new generation of stars who will challenge these Gods and surpass the generations before them.
That generation being headed by the man with the Strawhat. And even then the amount of firepower it'll take to overthrow these Gods will be something that'd been accumulating over generations, not just some crew led by 1 guy. The RA/ "good marines/ Many nations/ Ancient Weapon poseidon/ Possibly giants of Elbaf/ Wano home of seastone/ SHP/ other pirate crews maybe and so much more.
--------------------------
ANYWHO SHORT THREAD ON THE GOROSEI AND THEIR GOD THEME IN THE SERIES.
PLEASE SHARE YOUR DISAGREEMENTS AND AGREEMENTS OR ANY OTHER OPINIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE.
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doesn't seem like I missed that much
We have seen him using hardening, we haven't seen his blade being 24/7 black. On the contrary, we had already seen his blade not being black pre-TS.