General & Others Why Is Whole Cake Island So Hated?
- Thread starter Fiji
- Start date
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Arc should've ended after the explosion at the tea party. It would've saved Big Mom from further clowning. Then again we wouldn't see Katakuri in action which was the most positive aspect imo.
Sanji's segments was so bad it made me stop being a fan of his, when he got saved and mocked by Niji, that was so fucking pathetic.
Sanji's segments was so bad it made me stop being a fan of his, when he got saved and mocked by Niji, that was so fucking pathetic.
I agree that WCI wasn't much worse than Dressrosa or Wano right now, it still was a lackluster arc for OP standards and an average shonen manga arc.
This is the main problem though.
One Piece pre-skip was clearly an above average shonen manga and we're all here because it was actually so good in the past.
Right now the manga is mainly living on its reputation from the past though.
If this series solely had the post-skip arcs, it would be a bang average shonen manga at best. Not nearly as highly regarded as it is now.
This is the main problem though.
One Piece pre-skip was clearly an above average shonen manga and we're all here because it was actually so good in the past.
Right now the manga is mainly living on its reputation from the past though.
If this series solely had the post-skip arcs, it would be a bang average shonen manga at best. Not nearly as highly regarded as it is now.
I'm glad some people share the same opinion as myself that Sanji's arc was pure garbage. I can't talk about this with other people because everyone argues "he got the most development in the entire crew" without going into details how terrible the development was.
He did everything a crew member(top 3) should not do. Absolutely zero trust and failure to understand his captain and his crew. In what world would Luffy not raise hell to bring him back? Even abandoned them to bake a cake that did nothing, Pedro died because of it.
He was pathetic. No ingenuity or bravery to get himself out. Everyone around him saved him instead, including the family that he hates. Zeff would be livid for raising such a passive baby.
The worst part, nothing changed. He's still the same pervert. It all could've been salvaged if Sanji became a new person. But of course, Oda is really bad at giving his characters consequences.
I caution Zoro fans who want to know more about him, they don't want to turn that stone over.
He did everything a crew member(top 3) should not do. Absolutely zero trust and failure to understand his captain and his crew. In what world would Luffy not raise hell to bring him back? Even abandoned them to bake a cake that did nothing, Pedro died because of it.
He was pathetic. No ingenuity or bravery to get himself out. Everyone around him saved him instead, including the family that he hates. Zeff would be livid for raising such a passive baby.
The worst part, nothing changed. He's still the same pervert. It all could've been salvaged if Sanji became a new person. But of course, Oda is really bad at giving his characters consequences.
I caution Zoro fans who want to know more about him, they don't want to turn that stone over.
Zou was fun, but I half forgot its point, it felt like an entry way to WCI and Wano and not much else. But I enjoyed it nevertheless, it reminded me of Skypea SHs just going into adventure without too much at stake (until the Sanji thing happened - which made me most hyped because finally some plot importance).
What about Punk Hazard though????? It was best executed among them all.
I honestly don't see the problem about the main character being... Main focus. People overall complain that the main ones are not given enough panel time, we gotta make up our minds etc.
I know it had no SHs, did you miss them? I didn't tbh, it was refreshing. I agree on Luffy vs fodder and off paneling fights, though.
What about Punk Hazard though????? It was best executed among them all.
I honestly don't see the problem about the main character being... Main focus. People overall complain that the main ones are not given enough panel time, we gotta make up our minds etc.
I know it had no SHs, did you miss them? I didn't tbh, it was refreshing. I agree on Luffy vs fodder and off paneling fights, though.
What do you mean you rushed through Impel Down????!!! Infidel Yo! 
I was not as interested to see him going through levels beating Random characters that i had no interest in. I also couldn't wait to see, the stuff that i deemed imp so i rushed through at times.
And i did the same in FI arc, PH(start felt filler), DR when he was trying to reach Doffy. Might also be forgetting some more pre ts.
And i did the same in FI arc, PH(start felt filler), DR when he was trying to reach Doffy. Might also be forgetting some more pre ts.
1. That's not a formula it's... the entire plot. The main character's goal in life is to sail around the world. That's like pointing out "Naruto uses chakra" or "Spider-Man swings on webs" as part of a story formula. Aside from that we've seen them submerge to reach an island, fly to an Island, have an island fall on them, get sucked into an island, get hit so hard they sail across the sky to islands, and in this case get captured and taken to an island.
Which in this case was part of a different set up: Dressrosa concentrated on half of the main characters, and the rescue plot provided the story of exclusively focusing on the other half.
2. Pudding meeting was deliberate as she was a henchmen in disguise. That's nothing like Aisa, Konis, anyone in water seven, the giant kids, the Kozuki clan (minus Kanjuro), etc. She's not a damsel in that her change of heart is her own decision and she is not saved by the end of the story. Of the characters who might have the most in common Hancock's autonomy changes the character, Tashigi is selfless, Kanjuro has no redeeming qualities, and the princesses don't have conflicts of loyalty.
3. Luffy actually knows why the WG wants Robin and the dangers that would await her. He understood that she wanted to die. This goes back to the tomb, to Aokiji, the EL raid, and as recently as the Whale Forest. Luffy knew that Nami was stuck as Arlong's slave. Luffy understood Jinbe's delays in joining the crew. However, Luffy doesn't understand why Sanji's family doesn't like him. It was the motions of the betrayal arc for crewmates except Sanji's relationship with Luffy is different and the heart to heart they have is unlike what Franky, Robin, Nami, and Usopp had when being in the crew or not was the question.
4. Again, this series is about that. Pirates capture people. Not that this was the case for Luffy in the two preceding arcs.
6. There was no rematch victory against the boss. That singlehandedly makes this story different from everything except Marieneford and Impel Down, and I don't think we have to discuss why this arc is still very different from those. Sanji's victory was a niche in that it was... exactly what she wanted. You can say he won by being the best chef, you can say it was a victory by taunt... but you can't say it's what normally happens in any arc.
*8. You didn't actually count 30 chapters. Thirty chapters is the difference between the meeting with Bege and the conclusion of Katakuri's fight, or the space between Big Mom's fight with Capone and the Straw Hats leaving the territory. I was talking about something else when I mentioned a contradiction (WCI having the same formula but being somehow being a worse story... sounds like it's being called "the same but different" which makes no sense) but now there's a contradiction between what your complaint says, "those were 30+ chapters of BM screaming 'weeeeddiiiiiinnnngg caaaaakeeee' and Luffy vs Katakuri basically" and what you actually see if you don't exaggerate the number of chapters those parts take up. What gets accomplished in 30 chapters then? The assassination plot gives way to destruction of the tower, Luffy gaining a complete upgrade and beating a billion berry man, the best and worse case scenarios demonstrating the upcoming Sulong, Jinbe demonstrating the importance of a helmsman, Sanji's crowning achievement as a chef and earning of his upgrade, Nami getting a power up, and Chopper and Brooke getting motivation to grow.
Pedro's arc brought his "out of time" full circle as he was encouraged by Roger... who ran out of time, himself. Coming full circle from his experience with Roger, he was the first one to not just recognize what Luffy means to the cycle but die for his belief in it. Katakuri (betting on Luffy's future in a different way) was a callback to the idea Oda used Chinjao to establish in ruling over CoC users. Escaping on the Sunny earned him the title of "fifth emperor" which I think is pretty important, idk. This reminds me of the endless complaints back in the day that Skypiea or Thriller Bark were filler because they "had no pay off."
Which in this case was part of a different set up: Dressrosa concentrated on half of the main characters, and the rescue plot provided the story of exclusively focusing on the other half.
2. Pudding meeting was deliberate as she was a henchmen in disguise. That's nothing like Aisa, Konis, anyone in water seven, the giant kids, the Kozuki clan (minus Kanjuro), etc. She's not a damsel in that her change of heart is her own decision and she is not saved by the end of the story. Of the characters who might have the most in common Hancock's autonomy changes the character, Tashigi is selfless, Kanjuro has no redeeming qualities, and the princesses don't have conflicts of loyalty.
3. Luffy actually knows why the WG wants Robin and the dangers that would await her. He understood that she wanted to die. This goes back to the tomb, to Aokiji, the EL raid, and as recently as the Whale Forest. Luffy knew that Nami was stuck as Arlong's slave. Luffy understood Jinbe's delays in joining the crew. However, Luffy doesn't understand why Sanji's family doesn't like him. It was the motions of the betrayal arc for crewmates except Sanji's relationship with Luffy is different and the heart to heart they have is unlike what Franky, Robin, Nami, and Usopp had when being in the crew or not was the question.
4. Again, this series is about that. Pirates capture people. Not that this was the case for Luffy in the two preceding arcs.
6. There was no rematch victory against the boss. That singlehandedly makes this story different from everything except Marieneford and Impel Down, and I don't think we have to discuss why this arc is still very different from those. Sanji's victory was a niche in that it was... exactly what she wanted. You can say he won by being the best chef, you can say it was a victory by taunt... but you can't say it's what normally happens in any arc.
*8. You didn't actually count 30 chapters. Thirty chapters is the difference between the meeting with Bege and the conclusion of Katakuri's fight, or the space between Big Mom's fight with Capone and the Straw Hats leaving the territory. I was talking about something else when I mentioned a contradiction (WCI having the same formula but being somehow being a worse story... sounds like it's being called "the same but different" which makes no sense) but now there's a contradiction between what your complaint says, "those were 30+ chapters of BM screaming 'weeeeddiiiiiinnnngg caaaaakeeee' and Luffy vs Katakuri basically" and what you actually see if you don't exaggerate the number of chapters those parts take up. What gets accomplished in 30 chapters then? The assassination plot gives way to destruction of the tower, Luffy gaining a complete upgrade and beating a billion berry man, the best and worse case scenarios demonstrating the upcoming Sulong, Jinbe demonstrating the importance of a helmsman, Sanji's crowning achievement as a chef and earning of his upgrade, Nami getting a power up, and Chopper and Brooke getting motivation to grow.
Pedro's arc brought his "out of time" full circle as he was encouraged by Roger... who ran out of time, himself. Coming full circle from his experience with Roger, he was the first one to not just recognize what Luffy means to the cycle but die for his belief in it. Katakuri (betting on Luffy's future in a different way) was a callback to the idea Oda used Chinjao to establish in ruling over CoC users. Escaping on the Sunny earned him the title of "fifth emperor" which I think is pretty important, idk. This reminds me of the endless complaints back in the day that Skypiea or Thriller Bark were filler because they "had no pay off."
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Whole Cake had some good ideas that weren't executed properly, in my opinion.
How Luffy first encountered Cracker was nice because it showed that Big Mom wasn't underestimating him and the Seducing Woods plus Cracker's weakness was a perfect scenario for Nami to shine more than she did. The fight had all the elements to be entertaining yet the execution felt lacking. Was it so hard to emphasize that Cracker himself would be tricked by the forest because Nami controlled it, hence why Luffy could rest and eat with ease while he was searched, for example?
Sanji's arc could have work in theory. What Oda intended was obvious: Sanji came from a family of actual monsters and suffered a childhood of weakness; this is easily linked to his empathetic moment with Usopp in Enies Lobby, where he explained to him that he didn't need to be a monster to be useful. I wasn't bothered by his weak points, the situation was certainly difficult, but again the execution was strange. This whole narrative of Sanji being the kindest man ever is literally false, we've seen many unkind behaviors from him (he wanted to leave the kids in Punk Hazard, was agains helping the poisoned minks because they could be enemies, I recall he had some negative moments in Skypiea too...). He has never been portrayed to be the kindest except when it comes to food, which is why the wedding cake plot made total sense as it was presented (not so much during its development). I still think that Gin should have come back here, by the way, as a Big Mom Pirate or Germa's subordinate; he was the best example of our cook's true kindness and could have served as a link to make Sanji's choice to save his sociopathic family more belivable.
About the Vinsmokes, they're utter trash, and the idea of giving Sanji a raid suit is even more absurd because not only replaces potential power ups using Newkama recipes but also erases the irony of Sanji being stronger/potentially stronger than his modified siblings through sheer emotions and being he able to achieve his superpowers by himself (whatever elemmental ability with Diable Jambe, flying shoes with Sky Walk, etc.). But I must insist, the Vinsmokes not only aren't emotionless, as they were sold, but the idea of a scientific germanic empire doesn't fit at all in Sanji (and it doesn't help that they're caricatures of what he hates the most).
Katakuri versus Luffy? Again, nice idea that could have worked better. Big Mom tantrums? Sure, why not, it could have been funnier if Oda hadn't been so inconsistent with them (begins one, recovers her mind, loses it again, then many chapters pursuing the cake). Sanji lacking a proper fight? Works for me, but I wouldn't have minded to see some clashes with meaning and usefulness.
Pound being alive is horrendous.
But again, the arc had some very nice ideas, awesome designs, Tottoland was really entertaining in terms of aesthetics, Big Mom's flashback is glorious (the idea of eating Carmel and the children is one of the best Oda has had for a racconto), the devil fruits are very interesting (and the Soru Soru tops them as one of the best in this manga), the amount of references to fairy tales is outstanding (if you like to research this kind of stuff it is great), and certain plot decisions (allying Bege to assassinate Linlin, Brook facing her after stealing the Poneglyph, lots of sacrifices...) made it quite enjoyable to me.
How Luffy first encountered Cracker was nice because it showed that Big Mom wasn't underestimating him and the Seducing Woods plus Cracker's weakness was a perfect scenario for Nami to shine more than she did. The fight had all the elements to be entertaining yet the execution felt lacking. Was it so hard to emphasize that Cracker himself would be tricked by the forest because Nami controlled it, hence why Luffy could rest and eat with ease while he was searched, for example?
Sanji's arc could have work in theory. What Oda intended was obvious: Sanji came from a family of actual monsters and suffered a childhood of weakness; this is easily linked to his empathetic moment with Usopp in Enies Lobby, where he explained to him that he didn't need to be a monster to be useful. I wasn't bothered by his weak points, the situation was certainly difficult, but again the execution was strange. This whole narrative of Sanji being the kindest man ever is literally false, we've seen many unkind behaviors from him (he wanted to leave the kids in Punk Hazard, was agains helping the poisoned minks because they could be enemies, I recall he had some negative moments in Skypiea too...). He has never been portrayed to be the kindest except when it comes to food, which is why the wedding cake plot made total sense as it was presented (not so much during its development). I still think that Gin should have come back here, by the way, as a Big Mom Pirate or Germa's subordinate; he was the best example of our cook's true kindness and could have served as a link to make Sanji's choice to save his sociopathic family more belivable.
About the Vinsmokes, they're utter trash, and the idea of giving Sanji a raid suit is even more absurd because not only replaces potential power ups using Newkama recipes but also erases the irony of Sanji being stronger/potentially stronger than his modified siblings through sheer emotions and being he able to achieve his superpowers by himself (whatever elemmental ability with Diable Jambe, flying shoes with Sky Walk, etc.). But I must insist, the Vinsmokes not only aren't emotionless, as they were sold, but the idea of a scientific germanic empire doesn't fit at all in Sanji (and it doesn't help that they're caricatures of what he hates the most).
Katakuri versus Luffy? Again, nice idea that could have worked better. Big Mom tantrums? Sure, why not, it could have been funnier if Oda hadn't been so inconsistent with them (begins one, recovers her mind, loses it again, then many chapters pursuing the cake). Sanji lacking a proper fight? Works for me, but I wouldn't have minded to see some clashes with meaning and usefulness.
Pound being alive is horrendous.
But again, the arc had some very nice ideas, awesome designs, Tottoland was really entertaining in terms of aesthetics, Big Mom's flashback is glorious (the idea of eating Carmel and the children is one of the best Oda has had for a racconto), the devil fruits are very interesting (and the Soru Soru tops them as one of the best in this manga), the amount of references to fairy tales is outstanding (if you like to research this kind of stuff it is great), and certain plot decisions (allying Bege to assassinate Linlin, Brook facing her after stealing the Poneglyph, lots of sacrifices...) made it quite enjoyable to me.
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