General & Others Kizaru vs Luffy: An Agendaless View
- Thread starter Blazing Lion
- Start date
There is agenda with even your example just proving it. What makes you think there isn’t anyone else to fight? Or did you forget about Kuma & the ancient robot?
Even then, that’s besides the point because the question is about the 2 fighters in particular, not what anyone else is doing. Claiming “X won the fight” because there’s another opponent on the field is just silly. If both opponents are still good to fight and one of them just switches it’s not a win.
If the Scabbards turned around to fight King after dropping Kaido, you wouldn’t claim that they won the fight.
Who will they fight when they get up isn’t the topic to begin with.
Even then, that’s besides the point because the question is about the 2 fighters in particular, not what anyone else is doing. Claiming “X won the fight” because there’s another opponent on the field is just silly. If both opponents are still good to fight and one of them just switches it’s not a win.
If the Scabbards turned around to fight King after dropping Kaido, you wouldn’t claim that they won the fight.
Who will they fight when they get up isn’t the topic to begin with.
The other SHP would have captured Kizaru. The Pacifistas would have destroyed the marines if Saturn wasn't a fight. Admirals were shitting on Saturn and they are still shitting on him now.
I explained how Luffy got exhausted vs Kaido but restarted his heartbeat.
I understand you have your feud against Luffy, but why shit on Saturn too? That part makes no sense at all. Ok you were hesitant to believe the Gorosei were powerhouses. But now after 2 chapters straight where Saturn dominates the situation and you still don't accept the situation for what it is, I have to ask what are you even on about?
As it stands Saturn is in best fighting condition out of anyone present. Why downplay Saturn?! Wtf?
I explained how Luffy got exhausted vs Kaido but restarted his heartbeat.
I understand you have your feud against Luffy, but why shit on Saturn too? That part makes no sense at all. Ok you were hesitant to believe the Gorosei were powerhouses. But now after 2 chapters straight where Saturn dominates the situation and you still don't accept the situation for what it is, I have to ask what are you even on about?
As it stands Saturn is in best fighting condition out of anyone present. Why downplay Saturn?! Wtf?
You don't understand shit to this story if you possibly think that Kuma will defeat Saturn.
You didn't even realize that Egghead and Sabaody were very similar and anti-parallel arcs and you are too blinded by your agenda to see it.
Sabaody:
- Luffy punches a celestial dragon
- This causes an incident
- Admiral Kizaru comes after the strawhats
- Luffy can't do anything
- Dark King clashes with Kizaru
- Kuma saves the strawhats
Egghead:
- Luffy goes after Admiral Kizaru to save Vegapunk
- Luffy prevents that Kizaru achieves his mission and knocks him down in 1 clean hit
- Saturn (the highest of the celestial dragons) decides to take care of the mission
- Kuma (inside the ancient robot) interferes but he is about to get destroyed by Saturn
- Nika saves Kuma
- Luffy defeats Saturn
- King of Hell clashes with Kizaru (?)
- This causes an incident that will shock the world tomorrow
You didn't even realize that Egghead and Sabaody were very similar and anti-parallel arcs and you are too blinded by your agenda to see it.
Sabaody:
- Luffy punches a celestial dragon
- This causes an incident
- Admiral Kizaru comes after the strawhats
- Luffy can't do anything
- Dark King clashes with Kizaru
- Kuma saves the strawhats
Egghead:
- Luffy goes after Admiral Kizaru to save Vegapunk
- Luffy prevents that Kizaru achieves his mission and knocks him down in 1 clean hit
- Saturn (the highest of the celestial dragons) decides to take care of the mission
- Kuma (inside the ancient robot) interferes but he is about to get destroyed by Saturn
- Nika saves Kuma
- Luffy defeats Saturn
- King of Hell clashes with Kizaru (?)
- This causes an incident that will shock the world tomorrow
Huh? Based on what? And unfortunately for you, the point is not to engage in silly agendas, so don’t expect me to join in such childishness. I find it pointless and exhausting.
So it is just a roundabout way of you trying get Zoro to fight Kizaru? You folks never learn…
You’re confused. The agenda reply was to Pringles.
So it is just a roundabout way of you trying get Zoro to fight Kizaru? You folks never learn…
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What agenda? Saturn agenda? What are you mumbling there? 
On a serious note, the main villain of Egghead arc is clearly Saturn.
Nika will definitely face Saturn and this chapter clearly confirmed it, whether it is Saturn's strength or the flashback itself.
Now, what will happen to Kizaru? Luffy will not face him anymore if he has to take care of Saturn. It has to be somebody else.
I don't believe yet that it will be Zoro but I don't exclude this possibility because Zoro has to get stronger before fighting Mihawk and him facing Kizaru is one way to do that.
Nika will definitely face Saturn and this chapter clearly confirmed it, whether it is Saturn's strength or the flashback itself.
Now, what will happen to Kizaru? Luffy will not face him anymore if he has to take care of Saturn. It has to be somebody else.
I don't believe yet that it will be Zoro but I don't exclude this possibility because Zoro has to get stronger before fighting Mihawk and him facing Kizaru is one way to do that.
You keep yelling agenda like a little kid. What is the agenda exactly? We keep saying Saturn is stronger than Kizaru. Saturn dictates who fights who.
Saturn calls marines bugs to their faces and then orders them around.
There's no agenda. Kizaru is getting crapped on by Saturn if you are upset you can be upset at Saturn hurting the admiral ego.
Saturn calls marines bugs to their faces and then orders them around.
There's no agenda. Kizaru is getting crapped on by Saturn if you are upset you can be upset at Saturn hurting the admiral ego.
“What agenda” right before going ahead to say it. There’s no way you don’t realize that. What exactly makes Saturn stronger than Kizaru outside of agenda? Jumping to conclusions is one of the staples of agenda.
Saturn is one of the Gorosei and has authority over Kizaru, so how is that a surprise to you? Did you think that everyone else was only just realizing that now with you only just figuring that out?
Self-awareness isn’t that hard. An agenda-less post (or one with any basic maturity) wouldn’t need terms like “crapped on” to make you feel better. Your time off didn’t see you improve in any way besides switching to Sabo for some odd reason?
Nah, you’ve self-admitted to join the ranks of the usual trolls and such, so you can’t pretend otherwise now Pringles. Embrace it if you’re going to go all the way with it.
Someone actually following the story wouldn’t make a thread about Kizaru being defeated in chapter 1093, so we all know and it’s fine.
I don’t get such “agenda” posting because I personally don’t find entertainment in it, but I won’t begrudge anyone else their fun if they do so. I’d just reply to the most egregious examples.
Saturn is one of the Gorosei and has authority over Kizaru, so how is that a surprise to you? Did you think that everyone else was only just realizing that now with you only just figuring that out?
Self-awareness isn’t that hard. An agenda-less post (or one with any basic maturity) wouldn’t need terms like “crapped on” to make you feel better. Your time off didn’t see you improve in any way besides switching to Sabo for some odd reason?
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Nah, you’ve self-admitted to join the ranks of the usual trolls and such, so you can’t pretend otherwise now Pringles. Embrace it if you’re going to go all the way with it.
Someone actually following the story wouldn’t make a thread about Kizaru being defeated in chapter 1093, so we all know and it’s fine.
I don’t get such “agenda” posting because I personally don’t find entertainment in it, but I won’t begrudge anyone else their fun if they do so. I’d just reply to the most egregious examples.
I'd like to think that I'm not part of any particular agenda at this point, given how new to the fandom I am. That doesn't mean I'm an inherently objective observer on the matter though, we all have our own inevitable biases anyway. That said, I'll try to give an even-handed take on the fight and where things go from here as best as I can.
From what I can tell, the two easiest arguments to make are that the fight was either a tie or that Luffy won a pyrrhic victory against Kizaru. At the end of the day, neither party was particularly interested in properly fighting one another and were instead focusing on either killing/protecting Vegapunk.
Kizaru may well have been holding back from his full arsenal of abilities, given his additional orders to secure the island and Vegapunk's creations for the WG, but the fact of the matter is that the man was out of commission from one good hit of Gear 5 w/ ACOC. His endurance just seemingly isn't able to properly compete with the level of raw power that Luffy can dish out.
However, as others have noted, Luffy is currently looking even worse for wear than Kizaru due to being completely spent after reaching the limits of Gear 5. It's a temporary issue, but one that has resulted in immediate consequences in endangering Luffy's crew, as well as Bonney and Vegapunk. Plot-induced or no, the fact that Luffy can do that sort of damage to Kizaru in one hit immediately paints Luffy's "strategy" in this fight in a terrible light. He had the opportunity to end the fight very early on, with Kizaru quite literally in the palm of his hands... and rather than go all out in taking the admiral down then and there, he just yeeted him away and essentially allowed Kizaru to get back on his feet again.
Not to mention that Luffy waited until the absolute last moment to bother utilizing ACOC while in Gear 5. Had he done so sooner, it's hard to believe that Luffy's victory would currently be compromising the safety of his companions as it currently is.
All of that said, where do we go from here? Will there be a Round 2? Maybe, but I doubt it. Saturn is here and it's rather obvious at this point that he is the primary threat to the Straw Hats, Bonney and Vegapunk now. When Luffy recovers, it's hard to imagine that he'd prioritize fighting Kizaru over Saturn at this point.
More importantly though, given all of the recent indicators that Kizaru is having conflicting thoughts over his orders and his own admission of being just "another cog in the machine," I think there's also a good chance that this will culminate in Kizaru breaking free from his self-induced slavery as a dog of the World Government and fight Saturn as well. And frankly that sort of character exploration and development is infinitely more enticing and exciting to me than the debate of whether an admiral is as strong as a yonko or not.
From what I can tell, the two easiest arguments to make are that the fight was either a tie or that Luffy won a pyrrhic victory against Kizaru. At the end of the day, neither party was particularly interested in properly fighting one another and were instead focusing on either killing/protecting Vegapunk.
Kizaru may well have been holding back from his full arsenal of abilities, given his additional orders to secure the island and Vegapunk's creations for the WG, but the fact of the matter is that the man was out of commission from one good hit of Gear 5 w/ ACOC. His endurance just seemingly isn't able to properly compete with the level of raw power that Luffy can dish out.
However, as others have noted, Luffy is currently looking even worse for wear than Kizaru due to being completely spent after reaching the limits of Gear 5. It's a temporary issue, but one that has resulted in immediate consequences in endangering Luffy's crew, as well as Bonney and Vegapunk. Plot-induced or no, the fact that Luffy can do that sort of damage to Kizaru in one hit immediately paints Luffy's "strategy" in this fight in a terrible light. He had the opportunity to end the fight very early on, with Kizaru quite literally in the palm of his hands... and rather than go all out in taking the admiral down then and there, he just yeeted him away and essentially allowed Kizaru to get back on his feet again.
Not to mention that Luffy waited until the absolute last moment to bother utilizing ACOC while in Gear 5. Had he done so sooner, it's hard to believe that Luffy's victory would currently be compromising the safety of his companions as it currently is.
All of that said, where do we go from here? Will there be a Round 2? Maybe, but I doubt it. Saturn is here and it's rather obvious at this point that he is the primary threat to the Straw Hats, Bonney and Vegapunk now. When Luffy recovers, it's hard to imagine that he'd prioritize fighting Kizaru over Saturn at this point.
More importantly though, given all of the recent indicators that Kizaru is having conflicting thoughts over his orders and his own admission of being just "another cog in the machine," I think there's also a good chance that this will culminate in Kizaru breaking free from his self-induced slavery as a dog of the World Government and fight Saturn as well. And frankly that sort of character exploration and development is infinitely more enticing and exciting to me than the debate of whether an admiral is as strong as a yonko or not.
1st degree guy spotted.
1. The reason you think we have an agenda is because you have an agenda yourself. I know that Soma doesn't really have an agenda and he is just a guy who follows the MC and the story but you don't see it because you only see the parts you disagree with us.
2. Saturn's portrayal in only chapter 1094 was already better than whatever Kizaru got in this whole series. Saturn's portrayal in 1095 destroyed Kizaru's portrayal even more. It is clear as water that Saturn > Kizaru.
3. Luffy took temporarily down Lucci and now Kizaru. The way Oda drew both fights showed how they were not the focus of this arc.
4. The real focus of this arc is Nika vs Saturn. Nika has been awaited by all slaves and Buccaneers for years (Kuma, Bonney). Saturn is the villain of this arc, he grabbed Bonney, eye diffed Sanji and the others and now is about to kill them. Kizaru did not even get close to killing anyone yet. Luffy has to face Saturn.
5. His Sabo admiration started as a clear consequence to this chapter showing how insane Saturn is and how Sabo managed to escape them all so don't call it "odd reason" when you admire Kizaru. Also, why do you care?
1. The reason you think we have an agenda is because you have an agenda yourself. I know that Soma doesn't really have an agenda and he is just a guy who follows the MC and the story but you don't see it because you only see the parts you disagree with us.
2. Saturn's portrayal in only chapter 1094 was already better than whatever Kizaru got in this whole series. Saturn's portrayal in 1095 destroyed Kizaru's portrayal even more. It is clear as water that Saturn > Kizaru.
3. Luffy took temporarily down Lucci and now Kizaru. The way Oda drew both fights showed how they were not the focus of this arc.
4. The real focus of this arc is Nika vs Saturn. Nika has been awaited by all slaves and Buccaneers for years (Kuma, Bonney). Saturn is the villain of this arc, he grabbed Bonney, eye diffed Sanji and the others and now is about to kill them. Kizaru did not even get close to killing anyone yet. Luffy has to face Saturn.
5. His Sabo admiration started as a clear consequence to this chapter showing how insane Saturn is and how Sabo managed to escape them all so don't call it "odd reason" when you admire Kizaru. Also, why do you care?