General & Others Kizaru vs Luffy: An Agendaless View

[RebelliousSoma]

“What agenda” right before going ahead to say it. There’s no way you don’t realize that. What exactly makes Saturn stronger than Kizaru outside of agenda? Jumping to conclusions is one of the staples of agenda.

Saturn is one of the Gorosei and has authority over Kizaru, so how is that a surprise to you? Did you think that everyone else was only just realizing that now with you only just figuring that out?
Self-awareness isn’t that hard. An agenda-less post (or one with any basic maturity) wouldn’t need terms like “crapped on” to make you feel better. Your time off didn’t see you improve in anyway besides switching to Sabo for some odd reason?

Chapter 1095 spoilers:

Spoiler

teleportation (well this is from 1094)
instant regeneration
strong aura, possible stronger than Shanks who owned GB from a distance
stare haki that immobilizes MULTIPLE opponents

All this on top of his actual DF or demonic powers that we know nothing about. He didn't even go all out yet.

Are you implying I'm pushing a Saturn agenda? Ridiculous.

Self-awareness isn’t that hard.

Yet you lack it completely! So it is clearly hard for you. Achieve that state, before you call it "not that hard".

wouldn’t need terms like “crapped on”

Just wanted to emphasize with the fact that Saturn's power is way above Kizaru's. You'll stop posting on this forum as soon as you finally figure it out. See some of the smarter admiral fans figured it out before you.

switching to Sabo for some odd reason?

Switching from what?! Imu/Lili avatar was a way to show what theory I expect to become true. I still uphold that theory.
Does my signature now make me a Ushi-Oni fan?! It was also posted as a theory / prediction, which btw turned out to be true.

Your ilk kept saying Saturn isn't going to fight. Now you moved the goal post and claim he's weaker than Kizaru which is factually false.

 

[Pringles]

Nah, you’ve self-admitted to join the ranks of the usual trolls and such, so you can’t pretend otherwise now Pringles. Embrace it if you’re going to go all the way with it.
Someone actually following the story wouldn’t make a thread about Kizaru being defeated in chapter 1093, so we all know and it’s fine.

I don’t get such “agenda” posting because I personally don’t find entertainment in it, but I won’t begrudge anyone else their fun if they do so. I’d just reply to the most egregious examples.

Sure Fring, whatever you want. You can call me an usual troll if it helps you sleep at night.

Kizaru was taken down in one single punch in chapter 1094. If you think that this is any different than him being taken down in chapter 1093, you are really something.

You think you are objectively analyzing this series and that you are some kind of wise person that does not have an agenda, yet you showed us your real face again and again.

Analyzing Luffy vs Kizaru and saying "Kizaru could have killed Vegapunk if he wanted", saying that the Gorosei are not stronger than the admirals... (recent examples). We know that you are an admiral fan and that this blinds your analysis of the series, the least you could do is have some "self-realization" and own it.

 

[RebelliousSoma]

1st degree guy spotted.

1. The reason you think we have an agenda is because you have an agenda yourself. I know that Soma doesn't really have an agenda and he is just a guy who follows the MC and the story but you don't see it because you only see the parts you disagree with us.

2. Saturn's portrayal in only chapter 1094 was already better than whatever Kizaru got in this whole series. Saturn's portrayal in 1095 destroyed Kizaru's portrayal even more. It is clear as water that Saturn > Kizaru.

3. Luffy took temporarily down Lucci and now Kizaru. The way Oda drew both fights showed how they were not the focus of this arc.

4. The real focus of this arc is Nika vs Saturn. Nika has been awaited by all slaves and Buccaneers for years (Kuma, Bonney). Saturn is the villain of this arc, he grabbed Bonney, eye diffed Sanji and the others and now is about to kill them. Kizaru did not even get close to killing anyone yet. Luffy has to face Saturn.

5. His Sabo admiration started as a clear consequence to this chapter showing how insane Saturn is and how Sabo managed to escape them all so don't call it "odd reason" when you admire Kizaru. Also, why do you care?

Speak for yourself Gorosei boy, I have a Sabo agenda. I'm Sabo, I will be pirate king and sit on the empty throne! Luffy will raise the new generation of pirate-admirals, a new race confirmed by Oda btw, all for Sabo's global army.

5. His Sabo admiration started as a clear consequence to this chapter showing how insane Saturn is and how Sabo managed to escape them all so don't call it "odd reason" when you admire Kizaru. Also, why do you care?

Honestly. I think these are good stocks. It's a gift that keeps on giving unless Oda makes a surprise plot twist for Sabo. Hope not but you never know.
There might be something more to it. I don't have a full theory yet, but he has a key role to play.

It's all speculation at this point, but I think I am on the right track:
Luffy - Joyboy
Sabo - was given the D title: Sa D Bo, by Ace = SadBoy
Ace's hat had a happy and a sad face.

Not sure where Oda is going with this, but I do speculate it goes further than just Sabo being predicted as the third "sibling".

I invest in Sabo stock to play along with the fandom foolery on this forum. Best stocks. I am sure my fandom wins.

 

[Pringles]

Speak for yourself Gorosei boy, I have a Sabo agenda. I'm Sabo, I will be pirate king and sit on the empty throne! Luffy will raise the new generation of pirate-admirals, a new race confirmed by Oda btw, all for Sabo's global army.


Honestly. I think these are good stocks. It's a gift that keeps on giving unless Oda makes a surprise plot twist for Sabo. Hope not but you never know.
There might be something more to it. I don't have a full theory yet, but he has a key role to play.

It's all speculation at this point, but I think I am on the right track:
Luffy - Joyboy
Sabo - was given the D title: Sa D Bo, by Ace = SadBoy
Ace's hat had a happy and a sad face.

Not sure where Oda is going with this, but I do speculate it goes further than just Sabo being predicted as the third "sibling".

I invest in Sabo stock to play along with the fandom foolery on this forum. Best stocks. I am sure my fandom wins.

The best of this is that some people over here will take you seriously, which of course is what they should be doing.

Invest in Sabo today!

 

[Blazing Lion]

The other SHP would have captured Kizaru. The Pacifistas would have destroyed the marines if Saturn wasn't a fight. Admirals were shitting on Saturn and they are still shitting on him now.

I explained how Luffy got exhausted vs Kaido but restarted his heartbeat.

I understand you have your feud against Luffy, but why shit on Saturn too? That part makes no sense at all. Ok you were hesitant to believe the Gorosei were powerhouses. But now after 2 chapters straight where Saturn dominates the situation and you still don't accept the situation for what it is, I have to ask what are you even on about?

As it stands Saturn is in best fighting condition out of anyone present. Why downplay Saturn?! Wtf?

Where the fuck am I downplaying Saturn? How the fuck you come up with these delusional things? Saturn being there is not something I touched at all. I already fucking said Kizaru lost in his mission to kill VP, what the fuck is wrong with your reading comprehension?

Luffy restarted his hearbeat right then and there in the Kaido fight, he did not do that here for whatever reason. The fact that Bonney is being crushed in front of him, Sanji took a hit and Luffy still didn't do the heartbeat thing should mean that he can't do it at the moment. Luffy had to get saved by Franky punching him away and then grabbing him.

I have no issue with Saturn being stronger than Admirals, one of them carries a Supreme Grade (most likely) and the only other Supreme Grade carriers are WB, Roger and Mihawk so that should already allude to their power level. The dudes have scars on their faces and necks so they are obviously battle hardened.

And just FYI check my posts before replying stupidly with your defensive retarded shit. I was the one saying that as of now only Shanks and Mihawk are stronger than Luffy and Zoro.

 

[BlackLegFring]

1st degree guy spotted.

1. The reason you think we have an agenda is because you have an agenda yourself. I know that Soma doesn't really have an agenda and he is just a guy who follows the MC and the story but you don't see it because you only see the parts you disagree with us.

2. Saturn's portrayal in only chapter 1094 was already better than whatever Kizaru got in this whole series. Saturn's portrayal in 1095 destroyed Kizaru's portrayal even more. It is clear as water that Saturn > Kizaru.

3. Luffy took temporarily down Lucci and now Kizaru. The way Oda drew both fights showed how they were not the focus of this arc.

4. The real focus of this arc is Nika vs Saturn. Nika has been awaited by all slaves and Buccaneers for years (Kuma, Bonney). Saturn is the villain of this arc, he grabbed Bonney, eye diffed Sanji and the others and now is about to kill them. Kizaru did not even get close to killing anyone yet. Luffy has to face Saturn.

5. His Sabo admiration started as a clear consequence to this chapter showing how insane Saturn is and how Sabo managed to escape them all so don't call it "odd reason" when you admire Kizaru. Also, why do you care?

1. Are you speaking for RebelliousSoma now? Or can I assume that you completely agree with his comment? If so, yes you obviously have an agenda then claiming that Saturn is stronger than Kizaru because that’s just jumping to a conclusion. Saturn could be stronger or weaker, and either is fine if that turns out to be the case. That’s not an agenda…and if you think so please explain why.

And no, I’ve seen Soma’s posts for myself and he’s the definition of it. He was going off on random tangents insulting Kizaru on one of the chapter threads because he wasn’t “low diffed” like he hoped.
I follow the MC too, and Luffy is one of my favourite characters. That doesn’t mean you’ll see me claiming he’ll low diff Kizaru. You won’t see me calling him “Goofy” either, like some tend to do even though I dislike Gear 5 because such childish, agenda behaviour is simply silly. Liking or disliking characters should not impact how you view their strength if you don’t have agenda/powerscaling brain rot. That’s all.

2. And how exactly do you quantify such “portrayal?” Because that’s one of the most generic excuses used to defend agendas. Is it his status of having more authority? Did you think that directly translates to strength? You must think Saturn is stronger than Luffy too, right?

3. Yes, but one case is clearly different from the other. Trying to pretend otherwise is just once again, “agenda.” Or are you going to try and deny that now?

4. Using “eye diffed Sanji” while trying to pretend not to be agenda driven is just amusing.
Kizaru had ample opportunity to kill several times. He had Bonney & Franky at his mercy, then everyone at the control room right after, then a 2nd time while strangling Usopp.
Again, when you have to purposefully ignore things or lie, you only expose the agenda. Why os Saturn commanding the Marines to shoot Bonney (after already attacking her himself) that much more impressive to you?

5. I just pointed it out because it’s weird. That’s all, lol.

Edit: please feel free at any time to point out what you consider “agenda” in my comments as well. Maybe I might indeed make a biased statement that needs to be called out. That’s certainly not my intention.

 

[ZenZu]

A lot of posts reek of desperation this week. Yonkou fanboys damn near begging people to see things their way, when any neutral party can tell you it was a draw in the best case scenario for Luffy against a relatively (compared to Luffy) casual Kizaru.

When Oda ain't giving you much to eat off of, you will jump at crumbs, this is all this is folks. Keep in mind these are the same people who thought Base Luffy was enough, and G4 would be overpowering Kizaru, so this fight has flipped their world upside down.

 

[MonsterKaido]

Someone sure is very salty

 

[Pringles]

1. Are you speaking for RebelliousSoma now? Or can I assume that you completely agree with his comment? If so, yes you obviously have an agenda then claiming that Saturn is stronger than Kizaru because that’s just jumping to a conclusion. Saturn could be stronger or weaker, and either is fine if that turns out to be the case. That’s not an agenda…and if you think so please explain why.

And no, I’ve seen Soma’s posts for myself and he’s the definition of it. He was going off on random tangents insulting Kizaru on one of the chapter threads because he wasn’t low doffed like he hoped.
I follow the MC too, and Luffy is one of my favourite characters. That doesn’t mean you’ll see me claiming he’ll low diff Kizaru. You won’t see me calling him “Goofy” either, like some tend to do even though I dislike Gear 5 because such childish, agenda behaviour is simply silly. Liking or disliking characters should not impact how you view their strength if you don’t have agenda/powerscaling brain rot. That’s all.

2. And how exactly do you quantify such “portrayal?” Because that’s one of the most generic excuses used to defend agendas. Is it his status of having more authority? Did you think that directly translates to strength?

3. Yes, but one case is clearly different from the other. Trying to pretend otherwise is just once again, “agenda.” Or are you going to try and deny that now?

4. Using “eye diffed Sanji” while trying to pretend not to be agenda driven is just amusing.
Kizaru had ample opportunity to kill several times. He had Bonney & Franky at his mercy, then everyone at the control room right after, then a 2nd time while strangling Usopp.
Again, when you have to purposefully ignore things or lie, you only expose the agenda. Why os Saturn commanding the Marines to shoot Bonney (after already attacking her himself) that much more impressive to you?

5. I just pointed it out because it’s weird. That’s all, lol.

1. You have to understand Soma is all I'm saying. Not everything he says is 1st degree. Both of us just follow the MC and the story but we also love trolling from time to time so that's the trick. I do love Gear 5 so that's the difference between you and me.

2. Authority means strength in the first place, Kizaru served tea to Saturn and he directly apologized to Saturn for not achieving his mission and being incapacitated. Now, it's not only that. We saw what Saturn was capable of already in 2 chapters and he hasn't faced a guy like Luffy yet, you have already seen how monstrous Saturn is. Saturn landed on Egghead with a magical pentagram, he showed conqueror's haki, made a random guy's head explode, his probable mythical zoan gives him an enormous size, Bonney couldn't even hurt him as he regenerated quickly and he could have dodged anyway, he made people's head hurt just by glaring at them (including strong people like Sanji), he could have killed Luffy if it wasn't for Franky, and now he wants to kill everyone. The flashback has also shown us that he is certainly immortal as he didn't age at all. You still think that the admirals are stronger than the Gorosei? Saturn is more comparable to Kaido than to Kizaru at this point.

3. Same conclusion as I already said 10 times today. Luffy had it easier against Lucci but he still gave it all as he said it himself. Both fights ended in Luffy temporarily taking down his opponent and having a Nika drawback for 32 seconds.

4. My friend when I say "eye diffed Sanji", it is purely as a simplification in my text so you directly see what I mean without me having to type on my keyboard for ages. I prefer Sanji over Zoro and Shanks over Mihawk so where is the agenda in that? Anyway, you think Saturn can't kill Bonney himself? Are you really serious right now?

5. Understandable.

 

[RebelliousSoma]

Luffy restarted his hearbeat right then and there in the Kaido fight, he did not do that here for whatever reason

Exactly. Now do you see my point? It's just plot convenience. It doesn't say much about Luffy. It's same as Dressrosa where he took a breather.

Ok rechecking your posts because you think they are better than retarded shit:

Hahahahah fuck me, you really brining real life shit to OP? Who was gonna capture Kizaru?

I answered to this with SHP. Only Saturn's intervention saved Kizaru and the marines by changing the orders of the Pacifistas. It's all in the manga. You take out Saturn, then this battle is over and the SHP are eating and celebrating and we move onto a flashback maybe for Bonney.

the problem though is that Kizaru is still in better condition than Luffy at the moment and there is a chance that he might get up.

Right here was the issue. Why does Kizaru's existence even matter right now? Aside from power-leveling another Straw Hat?

You posted alongside the others who are under the impression that Kizaru somehow still matters and will fight Luffy, now that Saturn arrived. I gave plenty examples and arguments why a second round for the two makes no sense. It's a terrible deduction on your behalf.

Also you went fully along with the admiral agenda posters, even after I explained here what's wrong with your initial post:
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/kizaru-vs-luffy-an-agendaless-view.49285/post-4834639

So,

check my posts before replying stupidly with your defensive retarded shit.

You said you are too lazy to reply. Don't get angry at me for your own failure.

Post automatically merged: Oct 13, 2023

A lot of posts reek of desperation this week. Yonkou fanboys damn near begging people to see things their way, when any neutral party can tell you it was a draw in the best case scenario for Luffy against a relatively (compared to Luffy) casual Kizaru.

When Oda ain't giving you much to eat off of, you will jump at crumbs, this is all this is folks. Keep in mind these are the same people who thought Base Luffy was enough, and G4 would be overpowering Kizaru, so this fight has flipped their world upside down.

Saying "Saturn > Kizaru" = Yonko post. What a high level IQ deduction.

Hey check your neighbour next door, if they own a cat they might be a yonko fan too, or a dog lover might also be a yonko fan, you never know. Shut your blinds and lock your doors, yonko fans are walking all over your town.

 

[Pringles]

A lot of posts reek of desperation this week. Yonkou fanboys damn near begging people to see things their way, when any neutral party can tell you it was a draw in the best case scenario for Luffy against a relatively (compared to Luffy) casual Kizaru.

When Oda ain't giving you much to eat off of, you will jump at crumbs, this is all this is folks. Keep in mind these are the same people who thought Base Luffy was enough, and G4 would be overpowering Kizaru, so this fight has flipped their world upside down.

@Philosoraptor ZenZu embarrassing himself even more. I guess you can add this to the list. We have a case of made-up strawman, after getting caught in his own lies and targeting specific people to get away with his shitty arguments.

 

[HurricaneBilly]

A lot of posts reek of desperation this week. Yonkou fanboys damn near begging people to see things their way, when any neutral party can tell you it was a draw in the best case scenario for Luffy against a relatively (compared to Luffy) casual Kizaru.

When Oda ain't giving you much to eat off of, you will jump at crumbs, this is all this is folks. Keep in mind these are the same people who thought Base Luffy was enough, and G4 would be overpowering Kizaru, so this fight has flipped their world upside down.

Wait, so are you saying that you think I'm a Yonkou fanboy? Just want to be clear here.

 

[Pringles]

Wait, so are you saying that you think I'm a Yonkou fanboy? Just want to be clear here.

Don't bother with him, he is inventing shit and targeting random people to get away with his shitty arguments, it's not the first time.

 

[BlackLegFring]

Chapter 1095 spoilers:

Spoiler

teleportation (well this is from 1094)
instant regeneration
strong aura, possible stronger than Shanks who owned GB from a distance
stare haki that immobilizes MULTIPLE opponents

All this on top of his actual DF or demonic powers that we know nothing about. He didn't even go all out yet.

Are you implying I'm pushing a Saturn agenda? Ridiculous.


Yet you lack it completely! So it is clearly hard for you. Achieve that state, before you call it "not that hard".


Just wanted to emphasize with the fact that Saturn's power is way above Kizaru's. You'll stop posting on this forum as soon as you finally figure it out. See some of the smarter admiral fans figured it out before you.


Switching from what?! Imu/Lili avatar was a way to show what theory I expect to become true. I still uphold that theory.
Does my signature now make me a Ushi-Oni fan?! It was also posted as a theory / prediction, which btw turned out to be true.

Your ilk kept saying Saturn isn't going to fight. Now you moved the goal post and claim he's weaker than Kizaru which is factually false.

Um…is that it?

- How does teleporting to an island make Saturn stronger than anyone?
- Or self-regeneration? Marco can do that too.
- *Strange aura. Saturn’s aura was marked for its strangeness, not necessarily strength. And it’s obviously different from the targeted Haki that Shanks used.
It’s also still pointless since even Whitebeard, the Strongest man in the world didn’t show anything like either of them.
- When was it stated that it was Haki that Saturn used to immobilize them?
- Is it also your belief that Kizaru has gone all out?

So in the end…it’s just your imagination that you werusing for the claim? What a surprise! (Sarcasm).

I’m self-aware to the best of my knowledge, so please try and point out where exactly I’ve contradicted myself. I’ll wait.

Lol, Saturn can be stronger than Kizaru, that’s fine. That doesn’t affect Kizaru’s standing in anyway or change that he’s already disproved your attempts to downplay him. That’s no sweat off my back.
You projecting stuff on me is pointless when I can speak for myself.

What (or I guess who) on earth is my “ilk?” More of your projection?
When did I say that Saturn wouldn’t fight? From the start even before they got to the island I said that Saturn will be necessary to regain control of the Seraphim & Pacifista.
I haven’t moved any goalposts. My position has been the same that Saturn would have to actually be shown to be stronger than top tiers to be considered as such.

 

[ZenZu]

Wait, so are you saying that you think I'm a Yonkou fanboy? Just want to be clear here.

I don't know who you are dude. And just know an exception doesn't make the rule anyway. Speaking on the general sentiment.

 

[El Pekor]

Do we have an example of Luffy going back to normal after G5 without being an old man in between? Maybe even without being fully drained, he has to go through that old man state.

 

[HurricaneBilly]

I don't know who you are dude. And just know an exception doesn't make the rule anyway. Speaking on the general sentiment.

Fair enough! I just wanted to have a better understanding of where you're coming from here, even if I personally don't agree with you.

 

[ZenZu]

Fair enough! I just wanted to have a better understanding of where you're coming from here, even if I personally don't agree with you.

From what I've seen majority of Yonkou fans thought G5 wouldn't be necessary against Kizaru and that G4 or below would be enough to stop him.

So for them to see not only G4 get brushed aside but also G5 hit its limit like that against a Kizaru who most likely has another 2-3 gears to shift to must have been quite the shock.

Rn anyone can tell you it was a draw. Which doesn't bode well for that rhetoric.

 

[BlackLegFring]

Sure Fring, whatever you want. You can call me an usual troll if it helps you sleep at night.

Kizaru was taken down in one single punch in chapter 1094. If you think that this is any different than him being taken down in chapter 1093, you are really something.

You think you are objectively analyzing this series and that you are some kind of wise person that does not have an agenda, yet you showed us your real face again and again.

Analyzing Luffy vs Kizaru and saying "Kizaru could have killed Vegapunk if he wanted", saying that the Gorosei are not stronger than the admirals... (recent examples). We know that you are an admiral fan and that this blinds your analysis of the series, the least you could do is have some "self-realization" and own it.

You were the one who self-admitted to trolling when you saw fit…so are you walking back that statement for some reason?
I’ll sleep fine either way.

And no, Kizaru was knocked down by one of the strongest punches Luffy has ever shown (2nd strongest in fact). I have no problem with that when others have been knocked down by less.
It’s only an issue if one chooses to pretend that Kizaru isn’t getting back up.
And no, your claim wasn’t just that Kizaru would be momentarily knocked down. You were claiming he would be done for the arc. No changing goalposts please.

What is my “real face,” I’d like to know. Don’t think I’ll ever let such baseless statements just fly, lol.
You’ve got to be able to back up what you say. Nothing I’ve said from the start has changed: Luffy will need his strongest form in a difficult fight to try and take down Kizaru. I’ve simply been vindicated by events because Luffy needs a 2nd round of Gear 5 at the very least to defeat him.

And finally, are you denying that Kizaru could have put a laser through Vegapunk’s head instead of chatting?
That only says more about you than me. That’s just a fact. Make a thread if you wish.

 

[Hedfi]

I used to think Yonko > Admirals in the past. Like 1 Yonko = 1.5 to 2 Admirals.

But what I got from Luffy vs Kizaru, is that Luffy ~ Kizaru, meaning Yonko ~ Admirals.