General & Others Kizaru vs Luffy: An Agendaless View

[Pringles]

You were the one who self-admitted to trolling when you saw fit…so are you walking back that statement for some reason?
I’ll sleep fine either way.

And no, Kizaru was knocked down by one of the strongest punches Luffy has ever shown (2nd strongest in fact). I have no problem with that when others have been knocked down by less.
It’s only an issue if one chooses to pretend that Kizaru isn’t getting back up.
And no, your claim wasn’t just that Kizaru would be momentarily knocked down. You were claiming he would be done for the arc. No changing goalposts please.

What is my “real face,” I’d like to know. Don’t think I’ll ever let such baseless statements just fly, lol.
You’ve got to be able to back up what you say. Nothing I’ve said from the start has changed: Luffy will need his strongest form in a difficult fight to try and take down Kizaru. I’ve simply been vindicated by events because Luffy needs a 2nd round of Gear 5 at the very least to defeat him.

And finally, are you denying that Kizaru could have put a laser through Vegapunk’s head instead of chatting?
That only says more about you than me. That’s just a fact. Make a thread if you wish.

This is the internet Fring and I'm human. Don't expect me to weigh everything I say out here. I do sometimes "troll", I do say stuff where I didn't think twice before posting but most people do that.

Again, it's a simplification. I know that this was Luffy's 2nd strongest punch so far, I know that Kizaru still being conscious after it shows how insane he is and that he is not as weak as some people make him seem.

I said that the fierce fight was concluding in 1093 because of editor's preview. The fight concluded in 1094 by Luffy temporarily taking down Kizaru and Saturn getting on Egghead. You think that's different given that we barely got any panels in 1094 but White Star Gun? Luffy will surely no longer face Kizaru given that a bigger threat is on Egghead that can only be taken down by him.

You are biased by a view that is in favor of the admirals, even if you pretend to ignore that this isn't the case. I read your recent posts and they clearly portray that. Your avatar testifies to it. Luffy is not fighting Kizaru anymore. He managed to slow down the mission of assassinating Vegapunk and he took Kizaru down temporarily, that's about it. Now, he has to face Saturn.

Kizaru failed his mission, if he could have taken down Vegapunk, he would have done it. Whatever you say is irrelevant to that matter.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

Do we have an example of Luffy going back to normal after G5 without being an old man in between? Maybe even without being fully drained, he has to go through that old man state.

Chapter 1050, maybe Oda thought it would ruin the solemn moment or he didn't think of it as a recurring drawback yet.

 

[Pringles]

I used to think Yonko > Admirals in the past. Like 1 Yonko = 1.5 to 2 Admirals.

But what I got from Luffy vs Kizaru, is that Luffy ~ Kizaru, meaning Yonko ~ Admirals.

How did you even possibly jump to that conclusion?

Gorosei = Luffy/Shanks/Mihawk/Blackbeard/Sabo > Admirals > YC1

 

[BlackLegFring]

1. You have to understand Soma is all I'm saying. Not everything he says is 1st degree. Both of us just follow the MC and the story but we also love trolling from time to time so that's the trick. I do love Gear 5 so that's the difference between you and me.

2. Authority means strength in the first place, Kizaru served tea to Saturn and he directly apologized to Saturn for not achieving his mission and being incapacitated. Now, it's not only that. We saw what Saturn was capable of already in 2 chapters and he hasn't faced a guy like Luffy yet, you have already seen how monstrous Saturn is. Saturn landed on Egghead with a magical pentagram, he showed conqueror's haki, made a random guy's head explode, his probable mythical zoan gives him an enormous size, Bonney couldn't even hurt him as he regenerated quickly and he could have dodged anyway, he made people's head hurt just by glaring at them (including strong people like Sanji), he could have killed Luffy if it wasn't for Franky, and now he wants to kill everyone. The flashback has also shown us that he is certainly immortal as he didn't age at all. You still think that the admirals are stronger than the Gorosei? Saturn is more comparable to Kaido than to Kizaru at this point.

3. Same conclusion as I already said 10 times today. Luffy had it easier against Lucci but he still gave it all as he said it himself. Both fights ended in Luffy temporarily taking down his opponent and having a Nika drawback for 32 seconds.

4. My friend when I say "eye diffed Sanji", it is purely as a simplification in my text so you directly see what I mean without me having to type on my keyboard for ages. I prefer Sanji over Zoro and Shanks over Mihawk so where is the agenda in that? Anyway, you think Saturn can't kill Bonney himself? Are you really serious right now?

5. Understandable.

1. Fair enough

2. No it doesn’t. Spandam wasn’t stronger than Lucci. Orochi wasn’t stronger than some of those serving him. Charloss isn’t stronger than Fujitora.
Why would Kizaru apologizing for not completing his mission mean he’s weaker? Is this now “apology scaling?”
None of the rest is any better either. Teleporting with a pentagram isn’t a feat of strength. It wasn’t stated that the black lightning the soldiers saw is conqueror’s Haki either (not that he couldn’t have it of course), making a random guy’s head bloody or Bonney or Sanji too isn’t something beyond Kizaru either…so what’s that supposed to show? Regenerating means you have great endurance…but how does that out him over a top tier in overall strength? Even fodder could kill Luffy in that state.
What does wanting to kill people have to do with strength? Especially when he’s having the marine soldiers do it?

Why doesn’t any of that also put him over Kaido or Luffy? All you’re doing is showing your bias. Nothing Saturn has done necessarily puts him above any top tier at all.
He could turn out to be stronger, but nothing currently makes that so.

3. Luffy always gives his all, that’s irrelevant. The difference is obviously that it was a necessity for Kizaru who didn’t lose consciousness, while it was unnecessary for Lucci who was almost knocked out. Lucci didn’t have Luffy panting in that form either. Your reason for trying the comparison is obvious. You ain’t fooling anyone.

4. No, the connotation is obvious. You could have said Saturn attacked Sanji with his ability which is what he did. Of course, in that form it’s not as flattering since it’s par for the course for any devil fruit ability.
Saturn could indeed kill Bonney, but his eye attack ability whatever it is hasn’t shown to be sufficient for it at least.

 

[RebelliousSoma]

off on random tangents insulting Kizaru on one of the chapter threads because

I used colorful language to emphasize certain meaning in some of the posts here. To underline Kizaru's value compared to Saturn.
What's the agenda though, makes no sense.

You took comments made about Kizaru personally, therefore I have an agenda? Doesn't work like that.
Look Kizaru doesn't value much to me, he never did. Why take this fact so personally? This is where you keep getting hurt.

You must think Saturn is stronger than Luffy too, right?

The way you argue sounds like you argue from an admiral fan perspective. It's irrelevant how Luffy / Saturn are scaled between one another. You make a strange request for someone who claims no agenda, it's as if you would be envious if Luffy is scaled above Saturn but not Kizaru.

Nika fruit is stronger.
Due to Oda's plot convenience and the fact that Saturn is actually strong and a new unknown, I am not sure what to expect from this fight.

Um…is that it?

The way you argue sounds like you argue from an admiral fan perspective. How is it not that way? I put all those examples together, you take the bigger picture and try to look at it one pixel at a time.

Your problem is you have tunnel vision on the sentences and lines where Kizaru gets somehow "hurt". Otherwise you would have noticed I am speculating on whether or not a 3rd party might come into play to help the SHP, they are struggling vs Saturn. You could have noticed yourself what a game changer he is if you weren't so focused on the fact that Kizaru got "attacked".


I commented on a lot of different things this chapter and previous chapters.

And finally, are you denying that Kizaru could have put a laser through Vegapunk’s head instead of chatting?

Kizaru tried that too. Luffy blocked it.

You do have an agenda. You accuse me of having an agenda, not specifying which one and how it's related to this discussion.
Your ilk just lump everyone who talks smack about the admirals into some "yonko" bubble, as if they all fit together. Yonkos are all different and the various characters everyone is cheering for aren't even all yonkos.

You are being absurd along with your marine colleagues.

 

[Hedfi]

How did you even possibly jump to that conclusion?

Gorosei = Luffy/Shanks/Mihawk/Blackbeard/Sabo > Admirals > YC1

Luffy vs Kizaru ended in a stalemate.

Even though it's clear both are getting back up very shortly, I'd say Kizaru have a slight advantage as he's not completely out of it unlike Luffy - Temporarily obviously.

It appears a fight between a Yonko and Admiral would be an extreme diff fight that'd stretch to the distance unlike what I previously thought where a Yonko would beat an Admiral in a mid to high diff fight.

So, for now I'd say Luffy ~ Kizaru, meaning Yonko ~ Admiral.

 

[Pringles]

1. Fair enough

2. No it doesn’t. Spandam wasn’t stronger than Lucci. Orochi wasn’t stronger than some of those serving him. Charloss isn’t stronger than Fujitora.
Why would Kizaru apologizing for not completing his mission mean he’s weaker? Is this now “apology scaling?”
None of the rest is any better either. Teleporting with a pentagram isn’t a feat of strength. It wasn’t stated that the black lightning the soldiers saw is conqueror’s Haki either (not that he couldn’t have it of course), making a random guy’s head bloody or Bonney or Sanji too isn’t something beyond Kizaru either…so what’s that supposed to show? Regenerating means you have great endurance…but how does that out him over a top tier in overall strength? Even fodder could kill Luffy in that state.
What does wanting to kill people have to do with strength? Especially when he’s having the marine soldiers do it?

Why doesn’t any of that also put him over Kaido or Luffy? All you’re doing is showing your bias. Nothing Saturn has done necessarily puts him above any top tier at all.
He could turn out to be stronger, but nothing currently makes that so.

3. Luffy always gives his all, that’s irrelevant. The difference is obviously that it was a necessity for Kizaru who didn’t lose consciousness, while it was unnecessary for Lucci who was almost knocked out. Lucci didn’t have Luffy panting in that form either. Your reason for trying the comparison is obvious. You ain’t fooling anyone.

4. No, the connotation is obvious. You could have said Saturn attacked Sanji with his ability which is what he did. Of course, in that form it’s not as flattering since it’s par for the course for any devil fruit ability.
Saturn could indeed kill Bonney, but his eye attack ability whatever it is hasn’t shown to be sufficient for it at least.

2. I gave you my arguments. I understand what you are saying and I can't directly contradict what you are saying so let's agree to disagree. Now, this is mainly due to the fact that certain people were putting the Gorosei below the Admirals in terms of strength, some of them were even wondering if the Gorosei were fighters at all (debunked by them turning into monsters against Sabo). What the 2 latest chapters have clearly indicated is that the Gorosei have insane strength and power, contrary to what people made it seem. What the latest chapter has shown is that Saturn is the main villain of Egghead arc and the one who wants to kill Luffy and his friends. What the latest chapter has shown is that Nika is connected to Kuma's character. Everything is pointing towards Nika vs Saturn being the main fight of the arc. Taken together, all of this indicates that Saturn > Kizaru. Luffy will face Saturn for sure, the whole chapter 1095 indicates that Nika vs Saturn is inevitable.

3. I told you that your arguments were in favor of the admirals, it's time that you realize this. How in the world was it unnecessary for Lucci? What is my reason for the comparison Fring? Now, you are just projecting your insecurity of me comparing the conclusion of Luffy vs Kizaru with the one of Luffy vs Lucci and making it seem as if I'm saying that Kizaru = Lucci. Rest assured, I perfectly acknowledge Kizaru as clearly much stronger than Lucci. It took Luffy's 2nd strongest attack to take Kizaru down when it only took random CoA attacks against Lucci.

4. You know better I guess, I don't need to tell you that this is not what I meant since you seem to think otherwise so I'll let you be.

 

[BlackLegFring]

How did you even possibly jump to that conclusion?

Gorosei = Luffy/Shanks/Mihawk/Blackbeard/Sabo > Admirals > YC1

So it’s really just the same old disingenuous crap at the end of the day.
It’s the age old excuse that “the Gorosei are equivalent to the Yonko, so the Admirals are below.” How utterly predictable

This is the internet Fring and I'm human. Don't expect me to weigh everything I say out here. I do sometimes "troll", I do say stuff where I didn't think twice before posting but most people do that.

Again, it's a simplification. I know that this was Luffy's 2nd strongest punch so far, I know that Kizaru still being conscious after it shows how insane he is and that he is not as weak as some people make him seem.

I said that the fierce fight was concluding in 1093 because of editor's preview. The fight concluded in 1094 by Luffy temporarily taking down Kizaru and Saturn getting on Egghead. You think that's different given that we barely got any panels in 1094 but White Star Gun? Luffy will surely no longer face Kizaru given that a bigger threat is on Egghead that can only be taken down by him.

You are biased by a view that is in favor of the admirals, even if you pretend to ignore that this isn't the case. I read your recent posts and they clearly portray that. Your avatar testifies to it. Luffy is not fighting Kizaru anymore. He managed to slow down the mission of assassinating Vegapunk and he took Kizaru down temporarily, that's about it. Now, he has to face Saturn.

Kizaru failed his mission, if he could have taken down Vegapunk, he would have done it. Whatever you say is irrelevant to that matter.

Yes of course it’s different because Kizaru hasn’t been knocked out. Obviously.

Did you think the Scabbards fight with Kaido concluded after Paradise Totsuka? If the Scabbards went down to fight King afterwards, would you say they won the fight with Kaido? Or even when Luffy knocked down Kaido with a weaker attack in 1045? Come on now, the agenda is clear.
The “he’ll fight someone else” excuse doesn’t help you when the claim wasn’t that, but that Kizaru would be down for good which isn’t the case. It’s the Internet, your claims won’t disappear just because they’ve been disappointed.

Ah…now why oh why would you be avoiding the question? What’s so terrifying about a little “yes” or “no” to what happens if Kizaru fires a laser through Vegapunk’s brain instead of chatting about a destroyed robot?

This is what it always comes down to: if your claim had any merit, you wouldn’t have to dodge simple questions like that.
You know very well that Kizaru could have indeed killed Vegapunk in that moment if he wished. That’s a simple fact. It upsetting you that much doesn’t change anything or means you have to be upset with me about it. It is what it is.

In fact, you’ll find that I’ve even commented that I was kinda disappointed that Kizaru could kill Luffy’s crewmates that easily when he was strangling Usopp. Again, don’t let agenda commandeer your mind. You can give 2 characters props at the same time. It’s not some zero sum game.

 

[Pringles]

1. So it’s really just the same old disingenuous crap at the end of the day.
It’s the age old excuse that “the Gorosei are equivalent to the Yonko, so the Admirals are below.” How utterly predictable

2. Yes of course it’s different because Kizaru hasn’t been knocked out. Obviously.

3. Did you think the Scabbards fight with Kaido concluded after Paradise Totsuka? If the Scabbards went down to fight King afterwards, would you say they won the fight with Kaido? Or even when Luffy knocked down Kaido with a weaker attack in 1045? Come on now, the agenda is clear.
4. The “he’ll fight someone else” excuse doesn’t help you when the claim wasn’t that, but that Kizaru would be down for good which isn’t the case. It’s the Internet, your claims won’t disappear just because they’ve been disappointed.

5. Ah…now why oh why would you be avoiding the question? What’s so terrifying about a little “yes” or “no” to what happens if Kizaru fires a laser through Vegapunk’s brain instead of chatting about a destroyed robot?

6. This is what it always comes down to: if your claim had any merit, you wouldn’t have to dodge simple questions like that.
You know very well that Kizaru could have indeed killed Vegapunk in that moment if he wished. That’s a simple fact. It upsetting you that much doesn’t change anything or means you have to be upset with me about it. It is what it is.

7. In fact, you’ll find that I’ve even commented that I was kinda disappointed that Kizaru could kill Luffy’s crewmates that easily when he was strangling Usopp. Again, don’t let agenda commandeer your mind. You can give 2 characters props at the same time. It’s not some zero sum game.

1. Tackle what I said with valid arguments instead of showing how angry and upset you are at it. Take control of your emotions.

2. They were both taken down temporarily and you can't disagree with that.

3. The fierce fight concluded yes, Luffy punched Kizaru and took him down temporarily. Did you see the fierce fight continuing this chapter? No. So the fierce fight concluded in chapter 1094. Will it start again? Not against Luffy.

4. Ok but I don't care about your opinion.

5. I don't answer to stupid questions. You don't understand shit to narrative and you are nitpicking random details to try to make a point. Oda didn't want Vegapunk to die there. If Kizaru didn't chat and tried to shoot a laser, Luffy would have been there already to prevent it. You are nitpicking random fictional stuff that has no relevance to the point you are trying to make.

6. Read the previous point as you are repeating yourself.

7. What I said in 6.

 

[RebelliousSoma]

what happens if Kizaru fires a laser through Vegapunk’s brain

 

[BlackLegFring]

I used colorful language to emphasize certain meaning in some of the posts here. To underline Kizaru's value compared to Saturn.
What's the agenda though, makes no sense.

You took comments made about Kizaru personally, therefore I have an agenda? Doesn't work like that.
Look Kizaru doesn't value much to me, he never did. Why take this fact so personally? This is where you keep getting hurt.


The way you argue sounds like you argue from an admiral fan perspective. It's irrelevant how Luffy / Saturn are scaled between one another. You make a strange request for someone who claims no agenda, it's as if you would be envious if Luffy is scaled above Saturn but not Kizaru.

Nika fruit is stronger.
Due to Oda's plot convenience and the fact that Saturn is actually strong and a new unknown, I am not sure what to expect from this fight.


The way you argue sounds like you argue from an admiral fan perspective. How is it not that way? I put all those examples together, you take the bigger picture and try to look at it one pixel at a time.

Your problem is you have tunnel vision on the sentences and lines where Kizaru gets somehow "hurt". Otherwise you would have noticed I am speculating on whether or not a 3rd party might come into play to help the SHP, they are struggling vs Saturn. You could have noticed yourself what a game changer he is if you weren't so focused on the fact that Kizaru got "attacked".


I commented on a lot of different things this chapter and previous chapters.


Kizaru tried that too. Luffy blocked it.

You do have an agenda. You accuse me of having an agenda, not specifying which one and how it's related to this discussion.
Your ilk just lump everyone who talks smack about the admirals into some "yonko" bubble, as if they all fit together. Yonkos are all different and the various characters everyone is cheering for aren't even all yonkos.

You are being absurd along with your marine colleagues.

Lol, the point was your agenda. Saturn had nothing to do with it because he wasn’t even present when you were ranting and even others were telling you take it down a notch. Trying to project won’t help you. As Pringles said, it’s the Internet and your posts are available for all to see. You were claiming that Kizaru would be low diffed, and unfortunately for you it didn’t happen so you went on bizarre tangents of rage.

Maybe…just maybe…even the neutral perspective seems like “Admiral fan” perspective to you? No wonder, considering that “Admiral fans” claimed that Luffy would have a difficult time dealing with Kizaru much to your chagrin?
It’s not Admiral fans that forced Luffy to go into Gear 5…or have Kizaru still being active long after you thought he’d be done.

Being upset that Zoro or Sanji didn’t fight Kizaru…or Luffy didn’t defeat him in base or in Gear 4 can’t be scapegoated on those “Admiral fans” telling you to use your brain and not let your hatred of them blind you. That’s on you.

The topic of the thread is above you if you missed it. Whether a 3rd party steps in (which those Admiral fans you hate also pointed out when others were fantasizing about the Strawhats wiping out everything alone) is besides the point. It also has no bearing on claiming whether Luffy or Kizaru won the fight, so the excuse is just irrelevant.

Seems you were confused with the “Kizaru tried that too. Luffy blocked it” reply.
Luffy was kicked out of the dome when Kizaru was chatting with Bonney, or when he was chatting with Vegapunk in the control room. Luffy couldn’t block anything when he wasn’t even present.

Um…your agenda is obvious. You hate the Admirals and tried to downplay them. That ain’t a surprise to anybody.
In case you were unaware, you can’t speak for all Yonko fans either. Some do indeed like all of them or even just the title of we’re being honest…treating it as a set power level. In most cases, it’s the entire group they want to place above everyone else as well.
Also, it’s not only “Yonko fans” that hate Admirals either. I’ve certainly never made that claim so I assume that it’s more of your projection. I’ll keep the less flattering option to myself.

 

[Pringles]

Um…your agenda is obvious. You hate the Admirals and tried to downplay them. That ain’t a surprise to anybody.
In case you were unaware, you can’t speak for all Yonko fans either. Some do indeed like all of them or even just the title of we’re being honest…treating it as a set power level. In most cases, it’s the entire group they want to place above everyone else as well.
Also, it’s not only “Yonko fans” that hate Admirals either. I’ve certainly never made that claim so I assume that it’s more of your projection. I’ll keep the less flattering option to myself.

Stop saying "yonko fans", it's a misnomer. If you weren't driven by your own agenda and really neutral, you would have realized this ages ago.

 

[nik87]

He mainly didn't throw any attacks at Kizaru but in two piece it must be different
Plot convenience for Kizaru yes as nothing prevented Luffy to Land an attack before

With his other hand lol

Anti Luffy Squad coping as always

There is no need to cope.
He spammed many attacks at Kizaru, in a spammer gear like Snakeman.
Nothing landed and it is Kizaru's CQC which prevents Luffy from landing any hits.
Just like Zoro's CQC prevents everyone from landing any hits on him.

It is the supreme combat style typical for swordsmen. You just forgot your boy fights inferior styles all the time.
So he has to open his hand where Kizaru is to punch him with the other? Kizaru escapes...
GodfyTop1Bros are coping, as I said they would. Self-sabotage is their best stat.

This is incorrect.

The fact that Kizaru attacks Vegapunk and Luffy has to defend him is clearly a disadvantage for Luffy. We already saw what happened to Garp for having to defend Koby.

If Luffu hadn't had that disadvantage he could have knocked out Kizaru and then thrown him into the sea.

In other words, Vegapunk saved Kizaru.

Kizaru focused on Luffy plenty and he couldnt knock Kizaru out.
In fact, he couldnt land a single hit, not even with Snakeman.
Vegapunk saved Luffy. Kizaru hasnt use a single named attack against Luffy and Luffy still failed with god mode...
He aint the guy yall thought he was.

 

[CoC: Color of Clowns]

One Piece fans: "Here's why the unconscious guy won the fight and the conscious guy lost."

The fight isn't over until one of them is permanently knocked out, at this rate, it looks like Oda wanted to leave it half-finished and move on to other plot points. Which sucks.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

One Piece fans: "Here's why the unconscious guy won the fight and the conscious guy lost."

The fight isn't over until one of them is permanently knocked out, at this rate, it looks like Oda wanted to leave it half-finished and move on to other plot points. Which sucks.

This fights going to continue later so that oda can end the arc with Luffy vs Kizaru

 

[BlackLegFring]

2. I gave you my arguments. I understand what you are saying and I can't directly contradict what you are saying so let's agree to disagree. Now, this is mainly due to the fact that certain people were putting the Gorosei below the Admirals in terms of strength, some of them were even wondering if the Gorosei were fighters at all (debunked by them turning into monsters against Sabo). What the 2 latest chapters have clearly indicated is that the Gorosei have insane strength and power, contrary to what people made it seem. What the latest chapter has shown is that Saturn is the main villain of Egghead arc and the one who wants to kill Luffy and his friends. What the latest chapter has shown is that Nika is connected to Kuma's character. Everything is pointing towards Nika vs Saturn being the main fight of the arc. Taken together, all of this indicates that Saturn > Kizaru. Luffy will face Saturn for sure, the whole chapter 1095 indicates that Nika vs Saturn is inevitable.

3. I told you that your arguments were in favor of the admirals, it's time that you realize this. How in the world was it unnecessary for Lucci? What is my reason for the comparison Fring? Now, you are just projecting your insecurity of me comparing the conclusion of Luffy vs Kizaru with the one of Luffy vs Lucci and making it seem as if I'm saying that Kizaru = Lucci. Rest assured, I perfectly acknowledge Kizaru as clearly much stronger than Lucci. It took Luffy's 2nd strongest attack to take Kizaru down when it only took random CoA attacks against Lucci.

4. You know better I guess, I don't need to tell you that this is not what I meant since you seem to think otherwise so I'll let you be.

2. There’s no agreeing to disagree about it. They are just simple statements that you shouldn’t shy from if they had any merits.
- How does teleporting through a pentagram automatically make you stronger than someone else?
- What about regeneration? Or bloodying fodder? Or being able to kill a defenceless Luffy?
All you’re suggesting is that you don’t actually have any legitimate reason for placing Saturn above based on current things besides maybe wanting it to be that way. I’d say your track record probably gives the reason why as well.

Saturn is the main villain. He’s the highest known authority of the WG present. That doesn’t automatically make him stronger than the rest though or necessarily mean he has to fight Luffy (not that he couldn’t). As long as Kizaru isn’t out, Saturn can always ask him to fight Luffy. That doesn’t change. Them having the Admirals fight the Yonko is just standard practice after all. If he chose to do so himself, that’s fine too.

The only statement we’ve had on the matter is that the Admirals are called the Ultimate Fighting Force by the WG, so it’s reasonable for people to think the Admirals are stronger. That’s just the default assumption with what’s given so far. It doesn’t necessarily make it the case, and someone waiting for proof otherwise is completely fine. Not sure why you’d take issue with that.
Without agenda, such things going either way should be (mostly) fine. I put mostly because some people have some non-powerscaling reasons.

3. Well obviously so since a lot of people purposefully try to disingenuously downplay the Admirals. Of course pointing such things out would seem in favour of the Admirals to those trying to do otherwise.
People were claiming that Zoro or Sanji would defeat Kizaru here. Pointing out that that’s silly shouldn’t be an issue unless you were already skewed far from neutral to begin with. If that upsets you, then just stick to a more realistic position. It’s not hard.
If you’ve seen me making a claim to place an Admiral or the Admirals far beyond what the story has provided, then please feel free to point it out.

4. Again, your post on if Kizaru would be defeated in that chapter is available for all to see. You can go back if you’ve somehow forgotten. If you’ve changed your mind and somehow just consider being knocked down a defeat, then say so.
That would just mean you believe that the Scabbards won the first round with Kaido…but we both know you’d never say any such thing. Something else comes into play when it’s an Admiral involved for you. I wonder why…

 

[RebelliousSoma]

Lol, the point was your agenda.

Name my agenda. I dare you.

Maybe…just maybe…even the neutral perspective seems like “Admiral fan” perspective to you?

Reflect on your own words. Maybe it helps you identify my agenda ... one day.

Being upset that Zoro or Sanji didn’t fight Kizaru…

You lost it. That's an asspull.

The topic of the thread is above you if you missed it.

It's not my fault you're incoherent.

You hate the Admirals and tried to downplay them.

Correction! I don't value some of the Admirals! It's different from hate. Which is why you confuse it with downplaying.
The use of the word tried is wrong, I didn't even have to try.

In case you were unaware, you can’t speak for all Yonko fans either.

You should have that conversation with yourself. Urgently!

Also, it’s not only “Yonko fans” that hate Admirals either.

Maybe nobody values them as much as you do? Nothing wrong with that.

So the agenda is from what I gathered: I don't value some of the admirals, therefore it's downplaying. Therefore it's hate. Therefore I'm some Dark Sithlord that is set to extreminate the pure, virgin, kind hearted admirals.

Well, ok, I don't mind that projection, but you are wrong because those admirals are more like dog droppings on the side of the road. I never sought to exterminate them, they are just an eye sore.

 

[BlackLegFring]

1. Tackle what I said with valid arguments instead of showing how angry and upset you are at it. Take control of your emotions.

2. They were both taken down temporarily and you can't disagree with that.

3. The fierce fight concluded yes, Luffy punched Kizaru and took him down temporarily. Did you see the fierce fight continuing this chapter? No. So the fierce fight concluded in chapter 1094. Will it start again? Not against Luffy.

4. Ok but I don't care about your opinion.

5. I don't answer to stupid questions. You don't understand shit to narrative and you are nitpicking random details to try to make a point. Oda didn't want Vegapunk to die there. If Kizaru didn't chat and tried to shoot a laser, Luffy would have been there already to prevent it. You are nitpicking random fictional stuff that has no relevance to the point you are trying to make.

6. Read the previous point as you are repeating yourself.

7. What I said in 6.

1. That’s the point, you didn’t say anything. It’s just some baseless claim like Perona > Franky. I already addressed everything else you said…but you’re already in “avoiding answering direct questions mode” because you’re afraid of the implications. What a surprise /s.

2. Nope. Knocked down momentarily isn’t the same as taken down. Maybe it’s the language that’s the issue? I consider “taken down” to mean that the opponent isn’t getting up to continue fighting anytime soon.
If you mean just down for a moment before getting up then I obviously agree…but that’s not what you’re implying by trying to crown a winner.

3. So you’re argument is just speculation that the 2 won’t fight again? That’s it? Even if that’s the case, that would just mean it was inconclusive, not that either won. As I already mentioned, if after Paradise Totsuka-ing Kaido the Scabbards immediately went down to fight someone else, I wouldn’t call that any sort of win.

4. That’s fine.

5. Lmao! Right…you don’t answer questions that just point out your obvious bias. Come on now.
If you are going the meta route, then the same can be said for anything including Luffy hitting Kizaru at all. That’s just pointless for any side. The fact simply remains that Kizaru could have indeed killed Vegapunk or Usopp whether you like it or not.
Sure it dispels your failing the mission argument, but it is what it is.
Not surprising that you’d consider it “nitpicking” when it doesn’t support agenda. Oh please…

Post automatically merged: Oct 13, 2023

Are you suggesting that Vegapunk is the same as Gear 5 Luffy? That’s the best you could do? Lmao!

Post automatically merged: Oct 13, 2023

Stop saying "yonko fans", it's a misnomer. If you weren't driven by your own agenda and really neutral, you would have realized this ages ago.

And how is that so? What else do you call those that claim that the Yonko are automatically much stronger than everyone else?

That’s just silly semantics that are pointless since many wear that name like a badge of honour themselves. They call themselves Yonko fans by their very own volition. Go complain to them.

Trying to spin that as some agenda thing is just laughable dude.

 

[LolonoisZolo]

luffy vs Kizaru = Draw until one of them gets up while the other is still down.
The advantage goes to Kizaru since Luffy had to be saved last chapter wheras the admiral seems to be ''pretending'' (this is speculation though)
Draw it is!

 

[RebelliousSoma]

wheras the admiral seems to be ''pretending''

That's hilarious. I would like to see that. Kizaru unwilling to stand up keeps faking it so he doesn't have to dirty his hands himself.

Massive cope, but it's so funny and technically embarrassing, that it would be a great addition to the character.