Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

Fair enough, so you hold US to the same standard at least.
Now what? what's the alternative?

Told you already.

I have a solution for the Israel gov:

1. Cease fire immediately
2. Open humanitary corridors for food water and health
3. Cease the colonization immediately publically
4. Apologies to the palestinian nation publically for the war crimes on Gaza, the colonization etc.
5. Have a treaty signed with a third party with Palestinian government on the principles of Oslo accords

If Palestinian haven't taken down the Hamas by themself by now, have the International commitee put sanctions on the Palestinian gov to put an end to this group.

See, I've managed to deal with the Hamas problem without a single bomb. The problem of the Isralian gov, is not that they want to deal with Hamas now or protect their population, its that they DON'T WANT PEACE. Why ? Because fascism and the far right flourishes on wars.

Let the palestianian live, gouvern and take the hamas down on their own. But for that, they need PEACE.

 

[NAMELESS]

I'm not saying "it's okay" just that it's reality. This is what happens in these type of wars, from a cold hard truth point of view, this IS used as a guideline

Post automatically merged: Oct 16, 2023

Israel doesn't want the Gaza strip, it won't be annexed, at least not by civilians. I don't think there's gonna be Israeli military rule either.
Some UN thing or getting them under the Palestinian goverment of the west bank

I don't see this as a conventional war.Hamas is a militia financed by some other Islamist groups.They are not an actual military.They are terrorists.If there was an state of Palestine and it was at war with Israel,it would be different.Yet,targeting civilians would still be a war crime.

 

[Toby D. Dog]

No, nobody knows what is the alternative. Tell me. Not retaliate against Hamas? not target their supplies and officials?

How about stop pretending like you need to bomb everybody. I don't condone you freeloaders from using my tax money to murder innocents. If you want to do that at least give me back my hard earned money.

 

[Photon]

Or, this is based on actual anti-jew ideology in islam

Oh, look it's Mr. I Know Everything About Islam

Jews and muslims had coexisted, of course before some of them broke the peace treaty. Ottoman had the most jews at the time, even one of Saladin personal assistant was a jew. Quit talking out of your a**

 

[NAMELESS]

Israel doesn't want the Gaza strip, it won't be annexed, at least not by civilians. I don't think there's gonna be Israeli military rule either.
Some UN thing or getting them under the Palestinian goverment of the west bank

Should invade it,take out Hamas and call for a UN peace keeping mission to get things in order until the state of Palestine become a thing.

 

[Afroking]

And this is why there should be different threads for each discussion.
And not OFA

 

[NAMELESS]

Simple. YOU DON'T or at least you plan more carefuly your response and you do it proportionnaly and NEVER against civilians.

Neither Israel or the USA were right in their revenge.

The evacuation of Gaza has be deemed impossible. So this is not an excuse. This is pure genocide.

Palestinians are not taking out the Hamas,just like the Afghani are not taking out the Taliban.

 

[Logiko]

I asked for something that sounds realistic. They can't/won't take Hamas down on their own. They got 44% of the vote and stayed in power for 16 years since. Never would have worked.

In a situation where Israel is stil a colonizer and palestine under occupation and NO peace between the two states*****

Of course that in that situation the hamas will prevail. Its completely logical, the more you burn a house down, the angrier the owner will get bro..

The solution is to END the conflict first.

This means BRACE YOURSELF. And DON'T ATTACK.

 

[Afroking]

Sensitive topics yet there is only one politics threads.

WG hierarchy you have fumbled .

 

[NAMELESS]

This is literally what they have been doing. Weakening Hamas by bombing their officials, supplies, rockets, war rooms, and invading when a lot of civilians evacuated

Bombing officials and a bunch of civilians. These bombings are not acceptable,too many civilians as collateral damage.

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

An Israeli woman who survived the Hamas assault on settlements near the Gaza boundary on 7 October says Israeli civilians were “undoubtedly” killed by their own security forces.

It happened when Israeli forces engaged in fierce gun battles with Palestinian fighters in Kibbutz Be’eri and fired indiscriminately at both the fighters and their Israeli prisoners.

“They eliminated everyone, including the hostages,” she told Israeli radio. “There was very, very heavy crossfire” and even tank shelling.

The woman, 44-year-old mother of three Yasmin Porat, said that prior to that, she and other civilians had been held by the Palestinians for several hours and treated “humanely.” She had fled the nearby “Nova” rave.

A recording of her interview, from the radio program Haboker Hazeh (“This Morning”) hosted by Aryeh Golan on state broadcaster Kan, has been circulating on social media.

 

[Logiko]

Palestinians are not taking out the Hamas,just like the Afghani are not taking out the Taliban.

Both country lived war and occupation and are not really in a state of peace, so of course they elected the wrong one. Its for those who have the power to permit to those country to create a proper gouvernment. Problem, we are doing the opposite.

Don't worry, the Taliban won't last long.

 

[NAMELESS]

This is literally what they have been doing. Weakening Hamas by bombing their officials, supplies, rockets, war rooms, and invading when a lot of civilians evacuated

also,this should have been done like 30 years ago.I'm still trying to understand how they thought living under the thread of bombardment for so many years was acceptable.

Post automatically merged: Oct 16, 2023

An Israeli woman who survived the Hamas assault on settlements near the Gaza boundary on 7 October says Israeli civilians were “undoubtedly” killed by their own security forces.

It happened when Israeli forces engaged in fierce gun battles with Palestinian fighters in Kibbutz Be’eri and fired indiscriminately at both the fighters and their Israeli prisoners.

“They eliminated everyone, including the hostages,” she told Israeli radio. “There was very, very heavy crossfire” and even tank shelling.

The woman, 44-year-old mother of three Yasmin Porat, said that prior to that, she and other civilians had been held by the Palestinians for several hours and treated “humanely.” She had fled the nearby “Nova” rave.

A recording of her interview, from the radio program Haboker Hazeh (“This Morning”) hosted by Aryeh Golan on state broadcaster Kan, has been circulating on social media.

link?

Post automatically merged: Oct 16, 2023

Well this is why it's a heated topic.
Some people say it's collateral damage and part of war (and that hamas does this on purpose), and some are saying it's unacceptable

collateral damage that could be avoided is acceptable to you?

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

No, nobody knows what is the alternative. Tell me. Not retaliate against Hamas? not target their supplies and officials?

They should probably start targeting supplies and officials and not exclusively targeting civilian escape convoys, hospitals, schools, and residential homes

 

[Photon]

what do you expect me to say? it's not like Israel is saying the numbers are wrong
Many civilians are evacuated/evacuating but Hamas is undermining those efforts (and probably forced all those people in their houses to stay)

people are also doing their funeral services in Israel

People criticize this all the time, but give me a different way to fight a war where the enemy mixed itself with civilians.
Are you saying the army should just stand outside and not do anything? what are you suggesting?

Hamas stopping them from fleeing or they simply have nowhere to go? Or they simply dont want to go because it's their land?

What about your opinion on some videos of IDF talking about killing civilians as if it's their pleasure? Also judging by how impolite they act towards even kids on countless videos, they do seemingly have fun killing the civilians making Hamas as merely a cheap excuse to justify their bombing

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Well this is why it's a heated topic.
Some people say it's collateral damage and part of war (and that hamas does this on purpose), and some are saying it's unacceptable

Your freeloading is unacceptable. Get your own money.

 

[NAMELESS]

In a situation where Israel is stil a colonizer and palestine under occupation and NO peace between the two states*****

Of course that in that situation the hamas will prevail. Its completely logical, the more you burn a house down, the angrier the owner will get bro..

The solution is to END the conflict first.

This means BRACE YOURSELF. And DON'T ATTACK.

Read Hamas chart,they want the liberation of Palestinian territory and that they will never surrender it to non-Muslims. They want Israel off the map,there is no dialogue with Hamas.

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

Hamas stopping them from fleeing or they simply have nowhere to go? Or they simply dont want to go because it's their land?

What about your opinion on some videos of IDF talking about killing civilians as if it's their pleasure? Also judging by how impolite they act towards even kids on countless videos, they do seemingly have fun killing the civilians making Hamas as merely a cheap excuse to justify their bombing

Hamas isn't stopping them from fleeing. Israel is literally blockading the routes they tell people to flee through and then bombing the trucks carrying women and children out. You can lie and say it's hamas but there are videos and satellite imagery showing the blockades are Israeli.

 

[Photon]

Hamas isn't stopping them from fleeing. Israel is literally blockading the routes they tell people to flee through and then bombing the trucks carrying women and children out. You can lie and say it's hamas but there are videos and satellite imagery showing the blockades are Israeli.

Well no surprise, they're expert at lying

 

[NAMELESS]

Hamas isn't stopping them from fleeing. Israel is literally blockading the routes they tell people to flee through and then bombing the trucks carrying women and children out. You can lie and say it's hamas but there are videos and satellite imagery showing the blockades are Israeli.

it would be nice to post these here,don't you think?it would enrich the debate imo