Versus Battle Toji vs Jogo
- Thread starter Shiroyru
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Youāre misquoting him, disingenuous again
He said his technique is impressive (which it is, a cloning technique that allows you to switch bodies is broken) then proceeded to ask why heās so weak
Fodderized by 2 people that would insta kill Toji
So weak!!!
Letās be real, everything looks weak against Gojo and Sukuna
You know a big part of Tojiās whole plan was weakening Gojo so he could beat him, right?
Donāt leave it out, nerfed Teen Gojo failed to tag him
Gojo effortlessly dodged Tojiās blitz attempt then blitzed him back as soon as he healed up
The way Gege hyped him? You mean the same person whose carbon copy was frozen and incapacitated by Uraume with a single attack?
Uraume must be god tier then lol
Thatās not what Toji dealt with though
All of the fish Dagon sent out came from in front of him
He had plenty of time to react to it
Fodder insects? Ember Insects would destroy Toji
Irrelevant, Jogo doesnāt need his domain against him
It didnāt say instantly dominate the space
It said strong in clashes, 2 very different things
Which is good for Hakari cause if not for that Jogo would blow his domain away
Heās him
Ignoring the range advantage he has yet again
All Hakari can do is punch
Heās at a major disadvantage against someone that can play range and is much faster than him
Maki beat Naoya by standing still and waiting for him to come to her since she was at a disadvantage speed wise, what can Hakari do?
Jogo erases them from existence in a couple minutes
Excuses, excuses
She reacted to Uraumeās presence and looked away from Sukuna
Donāt give me the āshe was distractedā excuse
She knew Uraume was there, thereās no other way to interpret it
Still tagged and frozen for the rest of the chapter when she saw it coming
How could this possibly hit the untouchable reaction god Toji?
Now youāre the one nitpicking lol
Meteor is Jogoās slowest attack, thatās common knowledge
Jogo and Mahito were said to be the 2 disaster curses that would give Kenjaku a tough time in a 1v1 fight (which you conveniently ignored btw, I still have the source ready)
Not true, RCT canāt heal soul damage
Your soul is literally reshaped by Mahito, RCT canāt fix that
All of them being heavy hitters doesnāt mean theyāre at the same level of strengthā¦ what? It means theyāre the strongest on their side, which is true
When Gojo was sealed by Kenjaku why did he say Yuta would take over for him instead of Hakari?
Yuta is his first choice, not Hakari
Yuta beats every Disaster, Hakari and Maki can take Dagon and Hanami but Jogo and Mahito are above their pay grade
Youāre being willfully ignorant, what group in any manga that youāve read is dead equal?
Some will be stronger, some will be weaker. The best you can argue is relativity
Not that it matters cause Jogoat smokes them all
He said his technique is impressive (which it is, a cloning technique that allows you to switch bodies is broken) then proceeded to ask why heās so weak
Fodderized by 2 people that would insta kill Toji
So weak!!!
Letās be real, everything looks weak against Gojo and Sukuna
You know a big part of Tojiās whole plan was weakening Gojo so he could beat him, right?
Donāt leave it out, nerfed Teen Gojo failed to tag him
Gojo effortlessly dodged Tojiās blitz attempt then blitzed him back as soon as he healed up
The way Gege hyped him? You mean the same person whose carbon copy was frozen and incapacitated by Uraume with a single attack?
Uraume must be god tier then lol
Thatās not what Toji dealt with though
All of the fish Dagon sent out came from in front of him
He had plenty of time to react to it
Fodder insects? Ember Insects would destroy Toji
Irrelevant, Jogo doesnāt need his domain against him
Dagon can be >>> Megumi, nothing really states that Dagon's Domain is superior refinement wise that it would instantly dominate the space like Hakari's DE got (due to its non-lethality). 
It takes Hakari less than 0.2 seconds to open up a DE, something even Mahito cannot do.
It takes Hakari less than 0.2 seconds to open up a DE, something even Mahito cannot do.
It said strong in clashes, 2 very different things
Which is good for Hakari cause if not for that Jogo would blow his domain away
Heās him
Ignoring the range advantage he has yet again
All Hakari can do is punch
Heās at a major disadvantage against someone that can play range and is much faster than him
Maki beat Naoya by standing still and waiting for him to come to her since she was at a disadvantage speed wise, what can Hakari do?
Jogo erases them from existence in a couple minutes
Excuses, excuses
She reacted to Uraumeās presence and looked away from Sukuna
Donāt give me the āshe was distractedā excuse
She knew Uraume was there, thereās no other way to interpret it
Still tagged and frozen for the rest of the chapter when she saw it coming
How could this possibly hit the untouchable reaction god Toji?
Now youāre the one nitpicking lol
Meteor is Jogoās slowest attack, thatās common knowledge
Jogo and Mahito were said to be the 2 disaster curses that would give Kenjaku a tough time in a 1v1 fight (which you conveniently ignored btw, I still have the source ready)
Not true, RCT canāt heal soul damage
Your soul is literally reshaped by Mahito, RCT canāt fix that
All of them being heavy hitters doesnāt mean theyāre at the same level of strengthā¦ what? It means theyāre the strongest on their side, which is true
When Gojo was sealed by Kenjaku why did he say Yuta would take over for him instead of Hakari?
Yuta is his first choice, not Hakari
Yuta beats every Disaster, Hakari and Maki can take Dagon and Hanami but Jogo and Mahito are above their pay grade
Youāre being willfully ignorant, what group in any manga that youāve read is dead equal?
Some will be stronger, some will be weaker. The best you can argue is relativity
Not that it matters cause Jogoat smokes them all
Exactly.
Like he called Jogo's insects impressive before calling him a weakling too.
Now i'm supposed to believe that those insects are gonna accomplish what took Gojo his first "Hollow Purple" and a complete lack of knowledge from Toji's side to do.
And what even makes it strong again other than fan wank?
Gege included that nonsense a grand total of ONCE in his manga.
He didn't even care to reintroduce that Technique in Shibuya - that's how irrelevant that shit is.
Yet i'm supposed to believe the fan wank that this is gonna take out the guy dodging beings who are a minimum of 3x faster than Jogo in his sleep.
They were drawn in front of Toji because Gege started drawing them ever since Dagon used his Technique.
Look at the swarm of Shikigami swirling around FBE Naobito.
They were drawn so that the READERS can see it, they are still Shikigami that don't exist until they are attacked for the characters in the story.
Got blindsided by her Maximum Output while fighting Sukuna.
Jogo couldn't even land attacks on Panda while fighting Sukuna btw.
Says who?
Jogo was unable to land a single attack on Sukuna & relied on this to do it after getting mocked for it.
He believed that attack had enough to hurt even Sukuna, in reality even Panda can dodge it.
Laughable take, when two characters comparable to Jogo got stomped inside their Domains.
Kenjaku mid diff'd Yuki after stressing about how to beat her... in the end of the same fight he called her a Warmup.
That's where the hope of leeching from Kenjaku to wank Jogo ended.
Your Soul can be defended using CE, that's something even Nanami showed against Mahito.
Hakari's entire Body/Soul is automatically defended with CE/RCE, he is essentially running on 100% CE if he keeps hitting Jackpots.
Yuta is surely his first choice.
Hakari was also a choice for him.
Nope, they all beat the Disasters.
We're way too far into the story, and the Disasters are borderline irrelevant.
Yuta, Hakari/CT-less Kashimo, Maki/Toji are all Special Grade Sorcerors.
When have i ever said they are all equal?
They are all absolutely 'relative', and they are far above the Disasters.
Jogo canonically dies to 5 pre-Shibuya Yuji Black Flashes & that 1 Todo strike and Gege called him "technically" stronger than Hanami - that's his level.
It is real funny imagining him fighting against Yuta's CE reserves or Hakari at 100% or Maki/Toji with any Special Grade Cursed Tool.
Like he called Jogo's insects impressive before calling him a weakling too.
Now i'm supposed to believe that those insects are gonna accomplish what took Gojo his first "Hollow Purple" and a complete lack of knowledge from Toji's side to do.
And what even makes it strong again other than fan wank?
Gege included that nonsense a grand total of ONCE in his manga.
He didn't even care to reintroduce that Technique in Shibuya - that's how irrelevant that shit is.
Yet i'm supposed to believe the fan wank that this is gonna take out the guy dodging beings who are a minimum of 3x faster than Jogo in his sleep.
They were drawn in front of Toji because Gege started drawing them ever since Dagon used his Technique.
Look at the swarm of Shikigami swirling around FBE Naobito.
They were drawn so that the READERS can see it, they are still Shikigami that don't exist until they are attacked for the characters in the story.
Got blindsided by her Maximum Output while fighting Sukuna.
Jogo couldn't even land attacks on Panda while fighting Sukuna btw.
Says who?
Jogo was unable to land a single attack on Sukuna & relied on this to do it after getting mocked for it.
He believed that attack had enough to hurt even Sukuna, in reality even Panda can dodge it.
Laughable take, when two characters comparable to Jogo got stomped inside their Domains.Kenjaku mid diff'd Yuki after stressing about how to beat her... in the end of the same fight he called her a Warmup.
That's where the hope of leeching from Kenjaku to wank Jogo ended.
Your Soul can be defended using CE, that's something even Nanami showed against Mahito.
Hakari's entire Body/Soul is automatically defended with CE/RCE, he is essentially running on 100% CE if he keeps hitting Jackpots.
Yuta is surely his first choice.
Hakari was also a choice for him.
Nope, they all beat the Disasters.
We're way too far into the story, and the Disasters are borderline irrelevant.
Yuta, Hakari/CT-less Kashimo, Maki/Toji are all Special Grade Sorcerors.
When have i ever said they are all equal?
They are all absolutely 'relative', and they are far above the Disasters.
Jogo canonically dies to 5 pre-Shibuya Yuji Black Flashes & that 1 Todo strike and Gege called him "technically" stronger than Hanami - that's his level.
It is real funny imagining him fighting against Yuta's CE reserves or Hakari at 100% or Maki/Toji with any Special Grade Cursed Tool.
Yorozu fought 20 finger Suns and was far more superior than Jogo who was ordered by 15 fingers and Gojo who was just toying with him teleported to go grab Yuji and train while not needing to take off his mask only until he released his domain and completely overpowered Jogoā¦
Yuki would one shot Jogo tbh look at how she dealt with Getos strongest curse and Kenjaku himself overall while she wasnāt intending on beating him but forcing him to use his domain without releasing her own domain.
Yuta is Yuta he hard bodies Jogo.
Hakari who Yuta stated himself if serious is stronger than him would decimate Jogo.
Uraume the beast destroys Jogo as well.
Yuki would one shot Jogo tbh look at how she dealt with Getos strongest curse and Kenjaku himself overall while she wasnāt intending on beating him but forcing him to use his domain without releasing her own domain.
Yuta is Yuta he hard bodies Jogo.
Hakari who Yuta stated himself if serious is stronger than him would decimate Jogo.
Uraume the beast destroys Jogo as well.
The difference is he called the technique strong (which it is, someone with better reserves/Output could make it to SG level with a technique like that) and called the person weak while meaning it. He knew Jogo was strong and said the fight would be āfunā (not to mention he only called him weak so he would use his domain)
Whatās with all these weird arguments, do you hate Jogo or something?
I know you know those situations arenāt the same lol
You keep saying that like Gojo didnāt dodge his blitz attempt and land a Red on him
He didnāt need Purple to beat him
Toji couldnāt even touch a fresh Gojo
Relevance =/= strength
Seems like a weird thing to bring up lol
Coming from multiple directions, yes itāll tag him
Shibuya Megumi managed to tag him with a well placed trap, Jogoat should have no problem
I meant in front of Dagon
She wasnāt in the middle of fighting Sukuna, they were separated
Itās just another excuse
They all looked at Uraume, all the cope in the world wonāt change that fact
Mind you, you were the same person that tried to argue the specifics when I said Maki āsnuckā Naoya saying that doesnāt count lol
Cope
You have no point with this
Pre Awakened Maki could dodge it but still got blitzed and set on fire by Jogo with a regular fire blast
Stronger Attack =/= Faster attack
āComparable to Jogoā lol
Disingenuous again
āThis oneās on another levelā Theyāre comparable though right?
Argue with the author of the manga
Gege said it would be a tough fight for Kenjaku so it is
Who should I believe, you or the author?
He has automatic RCT, his reinforcement is boosted but Mahito would still only need a few touches to kill him
Relevance has nothing to do with strength
Kashimo is less relevant than Toji in the grand scheme but would stomp him with his CT
Gege also said Jogo and Mahito would give Kenjaku a tough fight 1v1
Why are you picking and choosing?
Do Gegeās words matter or not?
Youāre right Iād have a ton of fun watching those close fights
Well Jogo vs Hakari wouldnāt be that close, he high diffs him if Iām being generous
But Jogo vs Yuta or Maki would be fun to watch
Of course, Jogoat would take the W
@MUUGEN
Naobito later died from his injuries, Maki was out of commission for the rest of the arc (dunno where you got the still standing part from) and Nanami was half dead
This is from a Jogo who used a basic nameless fire blast btw
Whatās with all these weird arguments, do you hate Jogo or something?
I know you know those situations arenāt the same lol
You keep saying that like Gojo didnāt dodge his blitz attempt and land a Red on him
He didnāt need Purple to beat him
Toji couldnāt even touch a fresh Gojo
Relevance =/= strength
Seems like a weird thing to bring up lol
Coming from multiple directions, yes itāll tag him
Shibuya Megumi managed to tag him with a well placed trap, Jogoat should have no problem
I meant in front of Dagon
She wasnāt in the middle of fighting Sukuna, they were separated
Itās just another excuse
They all looked at Uraume, all the cope in the world wonāt change that fact
Mind you, you were the same person that tried to argue the specifics when I said Maki āsnuckā Naoya saying that doesnāt count lol
Cope
You have no point with this
Pre Awakened Maki could dodge it but still got blitzed and set on fire by Jogo with a regular fire blast
Stronger Attack =/= Faster attack
āComparable to Jogoā lol
Disingenuous again
āThis oneās on another levelā Theyāre comparable though right?
Argue with the author of the manga
Gege said it would be a tough fight for Kenjaku so it is
Who should I believe, you or the author?
He has automatic RCT, his reinforcement is boosted but Mahito would still only need a few touches to kill him
Relevance has nothing to do with strength
Kashimo is less relevant than Toji in the grand scheme but would stomp him with his CT
Gege also said Jogo and Mahito would give Kenjaku a tough fight 1v1
Why are you picking and choosing?
Do Gegeās words matter or not?
Youāre right Iād have a ton of fun watching those close fights
Well Jogo vs Hakari wouldnāt be that close, he high diffs him if Iām being generous
But Jogo vs Yuta or Maki would be fun to watch
Of course, Jogoat would take the W
Post automatically merged:
@MUUGEN
Naobito later died from his injuries, Maki was out of commission for the rest of the arc (dunno where you got the still standing part from) and Nanami was half dead
This is from a Jogo who used a basic nameless fire blast btw
Narrative wise, he very much needed it - it was when Gojo surpassed everyone else.
The manga even had panels of entire Toji inner monologue planning how to stop Blue & Red with his Chains + ISOH (now that his range has extended). The Purple was what ultimately beat Toji.
His Insects are apparently so godly right? That they solo Toji?
So irrelevant that Gege didnt even care to draw it again & thats being made to look as the second coming of Sukuna right now.
Gojo calls a whole lot of shit impressive, its for their level. It doesnt mean that technique is godlike or no one else can counter it except anime filler Sukuna & Gojo.
There is ZERO strength feats for those insects. All you are relying on is fan wank really, and when i bring up its relevance in the story, its not translating to strength now?
So tell me why should those fodder insects be strong?
Yea based on nothing really.
Another lie.. Megumi believed he hit Toji when Toji didnt even get touched. That's how fast Toji was compared to Megumi, the one who left it all behind couldn't even be percieved and this Toji wasn't even hitting his top speeds.
Why are the Shikigami visible here?
When Nanami is literally lecturing Maki to attack on instinct when they make contact, as if they don't exist before it?
The Shikigami are drawn so that the Readers of the manga can follow them, they are still invisible to these sorcerors until they make contact (maybe not to someone with Toji instincts) hence why Nanami's dialogue is in place here.
Please, Sukuna removed Jogo's arm in a single instant the moment Jogo focused on Mimiko/Nanako.
Using the feat of a character stronger than Jogo, when Maki is fighting Sukuna isn't the gotcha argument you think it is.
At the top & the bottom of their Group.
Ofcourse Jogo or Mahito are on another level to Dagon.
Doesn't mean they aren't relative.
Dagon got bullied by Toji in his own Domain, Jogo or no other Disaster Curse is doing that.
After the "Tough Fight".... he called her a Fun Warmup.
Do you honestly see Jogo amounting to a "tough" fight from where you can argue relativity between Kenjaku & Jogo... when Tengen + Yuki + Choso were a "Fun Warmup".
Yes, Kashimo who was the strongest of an era, who fought True Form Sukuna & lost to him.
Jogo doesn't get to leech off of Kashimo, sadly.
Mahito itself is > Jogo, and Shibuya Yuji & a Grade 1 like Todo beat him.
What does Gege draw next?
Yuji, Choso & Naoya all collectively shitting their pants at the mere sight of Yuta, Yuji getting casually neg diff'd & Choso (post fight) being one-shot.
It was a clear sign that nope, there are Sorcerors capable of outperforming even the Disasters (outside of Satoru Gojo).
He introduces Hakari, has Yuta state that Hakari is comparable to his level.
He makes Maki go through 2 Epiphanies & 1 Clan Slaughter to become Toji 2.0, after which he consistently groups this trio as the New Generation Special Grades, the Allies that Gojo was always hoping to make.
Yet we're still stuck with Mahito & Jogo and other old characters who were legitimately left in the dust - as Maki & Yuta are hunting Kenjaku & Hakari is fighting Sukuna's closest confidant. Lol.
The manga even had panels of entire Toji inner monologue planning how to stop Blue & Red with his Chains + ISOH (now that his range has extended). The Purple was what ultimately beat Toji.
His Insects are apparently so godly right? That they solo Toji?
So irrelevant that Gege didnt even care to draw it again & thats being made to look as the second coming of Sukuna right now.
Gojo calls a whole lot of shit impressive, its for their level. It doesnt mean that technique is godlike or no one else can counter it except anime filler Sukuna & Gojo.
There is ZERO strength feats for those insects. All you are relying on is fan wank really, and when i bring up its relevance in the story, its not translating to strength now?
So tell me why should those fodder insects be strong?
Yea based on nothing really.
Another lie.. Megumi believed he hit Toji when Toji didnt even get touched. That's how fast Toji was compared to Megumi, the one who left it all behind couldn't even be percieved and this Toji wasn't even hitting his top speeds.
Why are the Shikigami visible here?
When Nanami is literally lecturing Maki to attack on instinct when they make contact, as if they don't exist before it?
The Shikigami are drawn so that the Readers of the manga can follow them, they are still invisible to these sorcerors until they make contact (maybe not to someone with Toji instincts) hence why Nanami's dialogue is in place here.
Please, Sukuna removed Jogo's arm in a single instant the moment Jogo focused on Mimiko/Nanako.
Using the feat of a character stronger than Jogo, when Maki is fighting Sukuna isn't the gotcha argument you think it is.
At the top & the bottom of their Group.
Ofcourse Jogo or Mahito are on another level to Dagon.
Doesn't mean they aren't relative.
Dagon got bullied by Toji in his own Domain, Jogo or no other Disaster Curse is doing that.
After the "Tough Fight".... he called her a Fun Warmup.
Do you honestly see Jogo amounting to a "tough" fight from where you can argue relativity between Kenjaku & Jogo... when Tengen + Yuki + Choso were a "Fun Warmup".
Yes, Kashimo who was the strongest of an era, who fought True Form Sukuna & lost to him.
Jogo doesn't get to leech off of Kashimo, sadly.
Mahito itself is > Jogo, and Shibuya Yuji & a Grade 1 like Todo beat him.
What does Gege draw next?
Yuji, Choso & Naoya all collectively shitting their pants at the mere sight of Yuta, Yuji getting casually neg diff'd & Choso (post fight) being one-shot.
It was a clear sign that nope, there are Sorcerors capable of outperforming even the Disasters (outside of Satoru Gojo).
He introduces Hakari, has Yuta state that Hakari is comparable to his level.
He makes Maki go through 2 Epiphanies & 1 Clan Slaughter to become Toji 2.0, after which he consistently groups this trio as the New Generation Special Grades, the Allies that Gojo was always hoping to make.
Yet we're still stuck with Mahito & Jogo and other old characters who were legitimately left in the dust - as Maki & Yuta are hunting Kenjaku & Hakari is fighting Sukuna's closest confidant. Lol.
This will go on forever at this rate
I donāt think either of us plan on changing our minds lol
Iāll leave it at this
I completely disagree with your opinion regarding Jogo vs Toji or the strength of the Disasters but I respect it
If I offended you at any point during the discussion just know that wasnāt my intention
I donāt think either of us plan on changing our minds lol
Iāll leave it at this
I completely disagree with your opinion regarding Jogo vs Toji or the strength of the Disasters but I respect it
If I offended you at any point during the discussion just know that wasnāt my intention
Thatās not true though
Toji and Maki are relevant because they have Heavenly Restriction, something that Yuki says could provide an āescapeā for humanity
Plus Toji was essential for Gojoās growth
Yuta was the protagonist for the one shot, self explanatory
Yuki is the worst example you could give. If anything her strength was her least important feature. She was trying to find a way for humanity to āescapeā curses, something that could be tied to the ending of the manga. She also influenced Geto and partially set him on his path to destruction, she also did research on the soul that Yuji later inherited
Hakariā¦ tbh is the only one thatās just there Iāll admit
Toji and Maki are relevant because they have Heavenly Restriction, something that Yuki says could provide an āescapeā for humanity
Plus Toji was essential for Gojoās growth
Yuta was the protagonist for the one shot, self explanatory
Yuki is the worst example you could give. If anything her strength was her least important feature. She was trying to find a way for humanity to āescapeā curses, something that could be tied to the ending of the manga. She also influenced Geto and partially set him on his path to destruction, she also did research on the soul that Yuji later inherited
Hakariā¦ tbh is the only one thatās just there Iāll admit
How Gege sees Jogo:
VS
How Welkin sees Jogo:
How Welkin sees Jogo:
Hidden Inventory, Shibuya & then via Maki/Naoya twice in Culling Games.
Even in Sukuna vs Gojo, Satoru thinks of Toji as a moment where he had his ass handed to him lmao.
