General & Others In Chinese Mythology, Luffy represents the Tiger.

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Lmfao. Like when he went to stop luffy in onigashima and joined in instead.
The tigers points fit zoro way more than the dragons

Like when he understood the ramifications of what would happen if they invaded Big Mom's territory and pissed her off? So he was completely against the idea, despite the fact that one of their crewmates could be in potential danger? He understood that pissing Big Mom off could put all of them in danger, so he weighed the danger of one, against the danger of them all?

Yeah, he really let his emotions get the better of him there. It's crazy how much havoc he caused on WCI because of that Hot blooded, emotionally driven personality of his, isn't it?

Luffy didn't give a shit. He let his emotions dictate his actions of going to WCI, meanwhile Zoro was trying to be the voice of reason, despite knowing one of their own could potentially be in a lot of trouble.

 

[Xione]

I'm not talking about Spirit animals here. This is strictly from the standpoint of the Mythology of the Tiger vs The Dragon.

Wise, tempered, patient, humble, plucky, and/or any other traits usually seen as "laid-back", describes Zoro way more than passionate, driven, enthusiastic, wild, and/or other traits seen as "Hot Blooded"

The Tiger's actions is dictated by his emotions. That is 100 percent Luffy. The Dragon is more laid back and approaches situations in more calculating and level head, manner. Which is 100 percent Zoro.

How often does Zoro let his emotions dictate his actions? How often does Luffy fly off at the handle and let his emotions fuel him into charging headstrong into something, while Zoro attempts to calm him down and think about things?

@bold are all traits. What I listed were all traits describing the specific animals, derived off of the mythology of the animals. On one hand you're using traits of the Tiger & Dragon to fit Zoro & Luffy into them, on the other hand you're rejecting the usage of traits from other people and telling people that you're not talking "Spirit animals", but the mythology, when those traits of the "spirit animals" are based on the mythological symbolism of the respective animal. It's not making any sense.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

@bold are all traits. What I listed were all traits describing the specific animals, derived off of the mythology of the animals. On one hand you're using traits of the Tiger & Dragon to fit Zoro & Luffy into them, on the other hand you're rejecting the usage of traits from other people and telling people that's about "Spirit animals" only. It's not making any sense.

Because the Tiger and the Dragon have nothing to do with each other in regards to Spirit animals. They are connected in Chinese Mythology. Trying to use the fact that Zoro's spirit animal is a Tiger to force him into the narrative against fighting Kaido, does not work.

The Mythological Symbolism of the Tiger vs the Dragon, The Yin and the Yang, the polar opposites yet similar. The King of Earth vs the King of Heavens/Sky. The emotional vs the level headed. There is nothing that connects a confrontation between Zoro and Kaido in this manner.

All I see is "Zoro's animal is the Tiger, so that's his role in the battle against Kaido." That's completely ignoring the Symbolism of the actual portrayal of the The Tiger vs Dragon in Mythology.

Post automatically merged: Jul 1, 2020

"I know him the best so I know etc etc"

Arguments ran empy?

Yep, because you got to love Zoro. That emotionally driven, highly enthusiastic, sporadic, never know what he's going to do next, firecracker that he is. Dude acts so much like characters like Luffy, Naruto, Natsu, etc... it's insane.

 

[Xione]

Because the Tiger and the Dragon have nothing to do with each other in regards to Spirit animals. They are connected in Chinese Mythology. Trying to use the fact that Zoro's spirit animal is a Tiger to force him into the narrative against fighting Kaido, does not work.

The Mythological Symbolism of the Tiger vs the Dragon, The Yin and the Yang, the polar opposites yet similar. The King of Earth vs the King of Heavens/Sky. The emotional vs the level headed. There is nothing that connects a confrontation between Zoro and Kaido in this manner.

I didn't mention anything about spirit animals in my original post, I simply listed the traits of the Tiger in the Chinese Mythos and why somebody is ever called a "Tiger", it's due to those specific traits I listed. Then I stated that dependent on which website you look on the traits can be slightly different or very different between the Dragon & Tiger.

You're not really basing this off of any mythological chinese source, but just from the tvtropes website lists the traits that describe the Dragon as "laid-back" (like I said dependent on which website you look at the traits can be different to certain extents). But I now understand your source, so we'll stick with the tvtropes' description of the Tiger & Dragon for the discussion. The Dragon in our discussion of Tiger vs Dragon is already set, it's Kaido. We're now discussing whether the Tiger to that Dragon is Luffy or Zoro. But before we even get to that let's take a look at our Dragon here:

- "Representing the dragon will usually be wise, tempered, patient, humble, plucky, and/or any other traits usually seen as 'laid-back'. "
Is Kaido wise? Eh. Is Kaido humble? ha.. Is Kaido patient? hmm..nope Tempered? idk about that..

So just from the start the tvtropes Tiger Vs Dragon doesn't apply here. As Kaido vs Zoro or Luffy is not a symbolic fight of "level headed vs hot headed".


This is actually my first time hearing about this "level headed vs emotional" stuff regarding the symbolism of Dragon vs Tiger in Chinese Mythology, and I've spent quite amount of time with this stuff due to Dragon/Sakazuki/Fujitora/Celestial Dragon related purposes. The Tiger & Dragon aren't really polar opposites in who they are, they're polar opposites in the "energy" they represent which is related to Dragon being the symbol of the ruler while Tiger being the symbol of the people who balance out the rulers.
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Luffy is not more hot-headed than Zoro, he's more adventurous/curious than Zoro:

-> Zoro was about to cut up the Celestial Dragon for pointing his gun at him.
-> Zoro wildly ran around Wano, Ennis Lobby, now at Onigashima
-> Zoro compared himself to a wild beast
-> Look back on Zoro's flashback, that's about as emotional of a dude you can get.
-> Zoro was wanting to go at Fujitora
-> Called a beast by Apoo
-> Man openly looks down on Sanji and anybody else he deems inferior. And doesn't even admit inferiority to Luffy. The one time he was humble is when he had to ask Dracule to train him, that's about it.
-> Stated to be not the type of guy to follow orders, aka wild



Luffy has plenty of level-headed moments as well:

- Arlong park with Nami
- Dude listens to people and understands their situation, doing so multiple times in the series
- The man told Zoro not to fight, when Zoro was about to slash up Bellamy and his goons. Not gonna get more level-headed than that.

When Zoro told Luffy to be careful, Luffy wasn't even being hot-headed, but simply not careful enough. But not even that Zoro himself was yelling this, while Luffy was normal about it. Who looks more level-headed in this panel, the guy yelling or with a mad face or the guy smiling and being chill in response to it and being humble with even apologizing?

Spoiler

 

[LolonoisZolo]

But Zoro is faaaar from being ''humble''...he is as cocky as it gets lol

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

I didn't mention anything about spirit animals in my original post, I simply listed the traits of the Tiger in the Chinese Mythos and why somebody is ever called a "Tiger", it's due to those specific traits I listed. Then I stated that dependent on which website you look on the traits can be slightly different or very different between the Dragon & Tiger.

You're not really basing this off of any mythological chinese source, but just from the tvtropes website lists the traits that describe the Dragon as "laid-back" (like I said dependent on which website you look at the traits can be different to certain extents). But I now understand your source, so we'll stick with the tvtropes' description of the Tiger & Dragon for the discussion. The Dragon in our discussion of Tiger vs Dragon is already set, it's Kaido. We're now discussing whether the Tiger to that Dragon is Luffy or Zoro. But before we even get to that let's take a look at our Dragon here:

- "Representing the dragon will usually be wise, tempered, patient, humble, plucky, and/or any other traits usually seen as 'laid-back'. "
Is Kaido wise? Eh. Is Kaido humble? ha.. Is Kaido patient? hmm..nope Tempered? idk about that..

So just from the start the tvtropes Tiger Vs Dragon doesn't apply here. As Kaido vs Zoro or Luffy is not a symbolic fight of "level headed vs hot headed".


This is actually my first time hearing about this "level headed vs emotional" stuff regarding the symbolism of Dragon vs Tiger, and I've spent quite amount of time with this stuff due to Dragon/Sakazuki/Fujitora/Celestial Dragon related purposes. The Tiger & Dragon aren't really polar opposites in who they are, they're polar opposites in the "energy" they represent which is related to Dragon being the symbol of the ruler while Tiger being the symbol of the people who balance out the rulers.
-----------------------

This is how the Tiger vs Dragon is based in most works of fiction, which derives from the Mythology. Neither is considered truly good or truly evil in Chinese Mythology, although both can symbolize one or the other depending on the lore.

And Kaido for the most part is laid back. He chooses to sit back and chill, and drink. Even when faced with a barrage of attacks from Luffy in G4, he never lets his emotions get the better of him. He just nonchalantly takes the attacks, then gets up and ends the fight quickly. The guy has been around a long time, and has built an Empire. This wouldn't be possible if he didn't have some kind of wisdom. He also controls one of the biggest weapons manufacturing trades in the entire series. How is a man who has waited over 20+ years to set all this up, to start a war unlike the World has never seen, not patient in some capacity?

Now if we are going to nitpick this to such a degree, then shouldn't we just throw the whole concept out the window? If Kaido represents the Dragon, and Zoro represents the Tiger, then for some reason people don't have an issue with there being a theme of "Tiger verses Dragon" in Wano. But I bring up points to suggest that Luffy in fact represents the Tiger, and now all of a sudden we are going to call into question that Kaido represents the Dragon? That's weird.

There is absolutely nothing that links Zoro and Kaido from a Tiger vs Dragon perspective, symbolically. The lore surrounding the mythology fit Luffy and Kaido way more than it does Zoro and Kaido.

 

[Xione]

This is how the Tiger vs Dragon is based in most works of fiction, which derives from the Mythology. Neither is considered truly good or truly evil in Chinese Mythology, although both can symbolize one or the other depending on the lore.

And Kaido for the most part is laid back. He chooses to sit back and chill, and drink. Even when faced with a barrage of attacks from Luffy in G4, he never lets his emotions get the better of him. He just nonchalantly takes the attacks, then gets up and ends the fight quickly. The guy has been around a long time, and has built an Empire. This wouldn't be possible if he didn't have some kind of wisdom. He also controls one of the biggest weapons manufacturing trades in the entire series. How is a man who has waited over 20+ years to set all this up, to start a war unlike the World has never seen, not patient in some capacity?

Now if we are going to nitpick this to such a degree, then shouldn't we just throw the whole concept out the window? If Kaido represents the Dragon, and Zoro represents the Tiger, then for some reason people don't have an issue with there being a theme of "Tiger verses Dragon" in Wano. But I bring up points to suggest that Luffy in fact represents the Tiger, and now all of a sudden we are going to call into question that Kaido represents the Dragon? That's weird.

Right Dragon vs Tiger is used in many different ways, the "level headed vs hot headed" is just one of the many other ways it's been used. And it's a way that I've personally never heard of being used in fiction tbh, but ofc my experience isn't the end all be all.

If we're simply talking about being patient or wise in some capacity, then Luffy fits that as well. We'd be able to point out some of Luffy's wisdom as well (and he's had quite a few scenes of that actually), along with his immense patience regarding particular things.

Except your usage of Tiger vs Dragon is through the tvtropes description of it, which is just based on how it's been used in some other fictional works (not as if they provided the exact sources). I called into question Kaido as the Dragon from your description of what the Dragon is in Dragon vs Tiger. I've already listed mine in the original post.

"brave, competitive, unpredictable, and confident, Stubborn, Aggressive, Self-ego " are the basic traits of the Tiger, all of which describe Zoro.

"Ambitious, Energetic, Leadership, Arrogant, Relentless, Elusive " are the basic traits of the Dragon, all of which describe Kaido

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Alright, so it's time to put an end to all this confusion going around regarding the whole "The Tiger vs The Dragon" theme that is going on in Wano, regarding Kaido. All people seem to acknowledge is that there is a Tiger vs Dragon theme, without doing so much as taking a second to do any type of research into the lore and symbology behind it.

I see a lot of "Zoro's animal is the Tiger, so therefore Zoro is the one who represents the Tiger in the fight against Kaido." This is 100 percent wrong. Zoro's spirit animal is represented by the Tiger. The Tiger as a spirit animal symbolizes strength and courage. This fits Zoro to the tee. Just like Luffy's spirit animal of the Monkey, which represents good Luck, and a playful and lighthearted nature fits him to a tee. But that's as far as their spirit animals go.

In the actual lore and symbolism behind the Chinese Mythology of the "Tiger vs. the Dragon", Zoro is nothing like the Tiger. In fact, Zoro's personality would be more akin to being a representation of the Dragon in this scenario, with Luffy's personality being more akin to the Tiger.

Those who are represented by the Dragon will usually be wise, tempered, patient, humble, plucky, and/or any other traits usually seen as "laid-back". While those who are represented by the Tiger will usually be passionate, driven, enthusiastic, wild, and/or other traits seen as "Hot Blooded".

It is also to be noted that the Tiger and the Dragon are seen to be complete polar opposites, while also at the same time they are similar. As you can see, the Mythology behind the Tiger vs the Dragon is the exact portrayal of Luffy and Kaido.

But Zoro is supposed to have Tiger theme thoughI don't see how Luffy supposed to have Tiger theme since his personality is nothing like Tiger at all

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Alright, so it's time to put an end to all this confusion going around regarding the whole "The Tiger vs The Dragon" theme that is going on in Wano, regarding Kaido. All people seem to acknowledge is that there is a Tiger vs Dragon theme, without doing so much as taking a second to do any type of research into the lore and symbology behind it.

I see a lot of "Zoro's animal is the Tiger, so therefore Zoro is the one who represents the Tiger in the fight against Kaido." This is 100 percent wrong. Zoro's spirit animal is represented by the Tiger. The Tiger as a spirit animal symbolizes strength and courage. This fits Zoro to the tee. Just like Luffy's spirit animal of the Monkey, which represents good Luck, and a playful and lighthearted nature fits him to a tee. But that's as far as their spirit animals go.

In the actual lore and symbolism behind the Chinese Mythology of the "Tiger vs. the Dragon", Zoro is nothing like the Tiger. In fact, Zoro's personality would be more akin to being a representation of the Dragon in this scenario, with Luffy's personality being more akin to the Tiger.

Those who are represented by the Dragon will usually be wise, tempered, patient, humble, plucky, and/or any other traits usually seen as "laid-back". While those who are represented by the Tiger will usually be passionate, driven, enthusiastic, wild, and/or other traits seen as "Hot Blooded".

It is also to be noted that the Tiger and the Dragon are seen to be complete polar opposites, while also at the same time they are similar. As you can see, the Mythology behind the Tiger vs the Dragon is the exact portrayal of Luffy and Kaido.

Seeems Luffy fans are getting a little shook because they are noticing too much evidence, so now they trying to put Luffy in Zoro position. Lmfao Don't let me body you bro.

 

[Tobra]

Lmfao Don't let me body you bro.

what the hell does that mean? how are going to do that from your monitor?

 

[Albino 👑]

Tiger man or not luffy still the main person thats putting down kaido

Seeems Luffy fans are getting a little shook because they are noticing too much evidence, so now they trying to put Luffy in Zoro position. Lmfao Don't let me body you bro.

Yall really when fans were saying that

• Zoro was gonna beat sanji and luffy for everything that happened in whole cake and even leave because he doesn't need them
• Or like hell start to put luffy in his place when he found out about big mom coming to wano
• When he was gonna lead all the samurai or just even recruit the 3 missing scabbards like ashura
• hed be the one to meet up with yamato and gain his respect
• Ect

I wonder who did those things

Probably the same person thats gonna beat kaido and be recognized for saving wano idk

 

[BangOO🍅]

 

[yj]

Tiger man or not luffy still the main person thats putting down kaido

Who’s taking down big mom then???

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Tiger man or not luffy still the main person thats putting down kaido

Yall really when fans were saying that

• Zoro was gonna beat sanji and luffy for everything that happened in whole cake and even leave because he doesn't need them
• Or like hell start to put luffy in his place when he found out about big mom coming to wano
• When he was gonna lead all the samurai or just even recruit the 3 missing scabbards like ashura
• hed be the one to meet up with yamato and gain his respect
• Ect

I wonder who did those things

Probably the same person thats gonna beat kaido and be recognized for saving wano idk

1. What Zoro fan said he would beat up Sanji and Luffy. Lmao maybe delusional Zoro fans who doesn't understand writing and his character. The real Zoro fans neber thought he would betray luffy. That goes against his whole character. What i do remember most Zoro fans saying is Sanji won't get a fight in WCI lmao
2. I didn't see that Yamato thing.

 

[Tobra]

Who’s taking down big mom then???

herself she will have a hunger strike and there would be no food so she will become weak and kaido will knocks her out

mark my words

 

[BangOO🍅]

Who’s taking down big mom then???

Jewelry "Bae"nny.

 

[Tobra]

What i do remember most Zoro fans saying is Sanji won't get a fight in WCI lmao

hmm that’s strange i don’t

2. I didn't see that Yamato thing

then you might need to wear glasses next time browse this forum because really it was all over the place

 

[yj]

Jewelry "Bae"nny.

:cheers:

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

hmm that’s strange i don’t

then you might need to wear glasses next time browse this forum because really it was all over the place

You must of not been in orojackson. Literally Sanji fans were saying he was going to beat e everybody. Katakuri, Oven etc.... Lmao 🤣 you clearly wasn't around they had a literal thread with like a 1000 post.

All over? I didn't see it was there alot of threads. You must need glasses if you didn't see those Sanji things

 

[Kurodiamondo]

If we will get tiger vs dragon
Then it's kid vs kaido
Kid is super hot blooded :smithnie:

Then we'll get K vs K and L vs L