Powers & Abilities Understanding Asura, King of Hell and Enma Haki Flow

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Herrera95

#1
#1
I'm doing this thread to share my thoughts about how they work and they are and to see if someone help me to catch something I may have missed.

So first of all what is Asura?

Asura is a transformation/mode of Zoro. Demonic Aura. It creates the illusion of a demon with 3 heads 6 arms and 2 legs(?). We only saw Zoro using it at Ennies Lobby (first time), Sabaody and then Wano (last time)

What is King of Hell? Another mode of Zoro where he is in full control of his haki while using Enma which makes the green flame around his 3 blades while also releases his CoC coating that makes the black lightning streaks on all his 3 swords.


What is Enma haki flow?

When Zoro tamed Enma giving ALL his haki to it instead of pulling back as he was doing before it creates green flames around all his 3 swords and it only works when Enma is being used.


So they are basically 3 different modes while King of Hell being an advanced version of Enma Haki Flow.

So there is a possibility that Zoro may combine Asura with King of Hell and that being his current peak.

Also notice how Asura is just an illusion and never that Zoro really grows extra heads and arms(lol).
 
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R

Robin swan

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#4
#4
Yea zoro just almost never goes to his peak asura. I do believe he'll mix koh and asura eventually but I think it'll only happen once he's fighting the best. For whatever reason zoro doesn't spam asura and only recently in wano started spamming haki.
 
Salah WG

Salah WG

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#6
#6
Herrera95 said:
Holy shit... So Asura makes Zoro's 3x times stronger... That makes sense though.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what Nine-Swords indicate, it means his Scaling is Tripled

Three-Swords = Up to 100% Strength + Up to 33% Speed ---> Becomes Up to 300% Strength + Up to 100% Speed
Two-Swords = Up to 66% Strength + Up to 66% Speed ---> Becomes Up to 200% Strength + Up to 200% Speed
One-Sword = Up to 33% Strength + Up to 100% Speed ---> Becomes Up to 100% Strength + Up to 300% Speed

So for example, if Zoro uses Pound Phoenix with Asura carrying Three Swords, it would be like "3240 Pound Phoenix"
Three times Bigger/Stronger than the one He used against Golem Pica. And if He uses a One-Sword Iai Technique in Asura Mode, it would Three times as Fast as Lion's Song

So the Illusion is just to show that Zoro made his Stats/Limit/Scaling Three Times Higher
But in reality, He is still using Santoryu or Nitoryu or Ittoryu
 
H

Herrera95

#8
#8
Salah WG said:
Three-Swords = Up to 100% Strength + Up to 33% Speed ---> Becomes Up to 300% Strength + Up to 100% Speed
Two-Swords = Up to 66% Strength + Up to 66% Speed ---> Becomes Up to 200% Strength + Up to 200% Speed
One-Sword = Up to 33% Strength + Up to 100% Speed ---> Becomes Up to 100% Strength + Up to 300% Speed
Click to expand...
More swords makes him stronger
Less swords makes him faster

Is that right, though?
 
Salah WG

Salah WG

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#10
#10
Herrera95 said:
More swords makes him stronger
Less swords makes him faster

Is that right, though?
Click to expand...
Yes, in Skypiea Arc, He mentioned how his Pound Phoenix Attack Scales based on his Swords
One Sword unleashed 36 Pound Phoenix, Two Swords unleashed 72 & Three Swords 108

In SBS Oda explained that this Attack is Reference to Real-Life Cannons that can shoot such Heavy Cannonballs
Cannon that can shoot a Cannonball weighting 12 Pounds needs to Weight 1 Ton, so you can imagine the Power
Zoro Post-TS can now Attack with 1080 Pound Phoenix in Base, so that means He is 10 times Stronger than Pre-TS

It's all about Weight, it was mentioned in countless Fights & Arcs
So Less Weight in his Attacks = More Speed
More Weight = More Strength

This is why He switches between his Sword-Styles
Santoryu is for Max Strength, Ittoryu for Max Speed & Nitoryu is Balanced (66% Scaling for both)

Attacks that rely on Strength mostly are called "Strong Blade" Swordsmanship
And those that rely on Speed mostly are called "Gentle Blade" Swordsmanship

Strong Blade is for Overpowering your Opponent (Such as Ohm Fight, Pica Fight & King Fight)
Gentle Blade is for Blitzing your Opponent (Such as Mr. 1 Fight, Zombie Ryuma Fight & Hody Fight)

All Swordsmen fall into one of these Two Categories, such as Brook being Gentle Blade User (He relies on Speed more than Strength)
Shanks is also clearly a Gentle Blade User (He relies on Blitzing his Opponent as seen against Kid & Kizaru)
Cavendish is another example

While likes of Kyros & Oden & Elbaf Swordsmen (Including Big Mom) are considered Strong Blade Swordsmen
Cuz their Attacks rely mostly on their Strength

Mihawk is only Swordsman who Perfected Both, meaning his Swordsmanship is both Strong & Gentle Blade
Cuz his Attacks Scale with 100% of his Strength & Speed, something that even Zoro can't do, and must Switch between Sword-Styles

Zoro with One Sword (Meaning Third of his Strength) was able to Counter immense Gravity from Fujitora & manage to push him with a Flying Slash, He also was able to Cut Onigashima Horn with such Strength

Same Zoro who said that He can't send a Flying Slash big enough to reach Pica who was far even with Three Swords, and same Zoro who is Physically Stronger than S-Hawk who can Cut Amazon Lily Mountain in Half

So when Mihawk cut that Iceberg from afar in Marineford with only a basic swing (Basically Basic Move like Morgan in Volume 1), it demonstrated that his Physical Strength is Extremely Extremely High & way way beyond Zoro's Current Strength (Who can stop Hakai), and his Swordsmanship indicates that He is as Fast as He is Strong & his Attacks Scale up to 100% of both,so you can imagine how Unstoppable his Signature Attacks gonna be
 
Terra Arseid7

Terra Arseid7

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#11
#11
Salah WG said:
Yes, in Skypiea Arc, He mentioned how his Pound Phoenix Attack Scales based on his Swords
One Sword unleashed 36 Pound Phoenix, Two Swords unleashed 72 & Three Swords 108

In SBS Oda explained that this Attack is Reference to Real-Life Cannons that can shoot such Heavy Cannonballs
Cannon that can shoot a Cannonball weighting 12 Pounds needs to Weight 1 Ton, so you can imagine the Power
Zoro Post-TS can now Attack with 1080 Pound Phoenix in Base, so that means He is 10 times Stronger than Pre-TS

It's all about Weight, it was mentioned in countless Fights & Arcs
So Less Weight in his Attacks = More Speed
More Weight = More Strength

This is why He switches between his Sword-Styles
Santoryu is for Max Strength, Ittoryu for Max Speed & Nitoryu is Balanced (66% Scaling for both)

Attacks that rely on Strength mostly are called "Strong Blade" Swordsmanship
And those that rely on Speed mostly are called "Gentle Blade" Swordsmanship

Strong Blade is for Overpowering your Opponent (Such as Ohm Fight, Pica Fight & King Fight)
Gentle Blade is for Blitzing your Opponent (Such as Mr. 1 Fight, Zombie Ryuma Fight & Hody Fight)

All Swordsmen fall into one of these Two Categories, such as Brook being Gentle Blade User (He relies on Speed more than Strength)
Shanks is also clearly a Gentle Blade User (He relies on Blitzing his Opponent as seen against Kid & Kizaru)
Cavendish is another example

While likes of Kyros & Oden & Elbaf Swordsmen (Including Big Mom) are considered Strong Blade Swordsmen
Cuz their Attacks rely mostly on their Strength

Mihawk is only Swordsman who Perfected Both, meaning his Swordsmanship is both Strong & Gentle Blade
Cuz his Attacks Scale with 100% of his Strength & Speed, something that even Zoro can't do, and must Switch between Sword-Styles

Zoro with One Sword (Meaning Third of his Strength) was able to Counter immense Gravity from Fujitora & manage to push him with a Flying Slash, He also was able to Cut Onigashima Horn with such Strength

Same Zoro who said that He can't send a Flying Slash big enough to reach Pica who was far even with Three Swords, and same Zoro who is Physically Stronger than S-Hawk who can Cut Amazon Lily Mountain in Half

So when Mihawk cut that Iceberg from afar in Marineford with only a basic swing (Basically Basic Move like Morgan in Volume 1), it demonstrated that his Physical Strength is Extremely Extremely High & way way beyond Zoro's Current Strength (Who can stop Hakai), and his Swordsmanship indicates that He is as Fast as He is Strong & his Attacks Scale up to 100% of both,so you can imagine how Unstoppable his Signature Attacks gonna be
Click to expand...
It really doesn't work that simply. We must rely on feats. And the power and speed of the attacks depends on the specific technique that Zoro does at that moment. Regardless of what style you use. The shishi sonson is from Ittoryu and yet it is one of Zoro's most POWERFUL and LETHAL techniques. Although it is true that in general, the 3 sword style is Zoro's strongest. And it doesn't necessarily have to be 33% fast that way LOL

And no, for God's sake, Zoro is not 10 times stronger than before, he is much more. The name of the technique that goes from 108 to 1080 is simply symbolic and aesthetic. I think you think too much about those things.

Pretimeskip took all the mugiwaras using their best attacks to eliminate an PX. Postimeskip with a random hit destroys improved XP.
 
H

Herrera95

#12
#12
Salah WG said:
It's all about Weight, it was mentioned in countless Fights & Arcs
So Less Weight in his Attacks = More Speed
More Weight = More Strength
Click to expand...
Except that Kizaru said exactly the opposite though...

Salah WG said:
This is why He switches between his Sword-Styles
Santoryu is for Max Strength, Ittoryu for Max Speed & Nitoryu is Balanced (66% Scaling for both)
Click to expand...
I'm trying to think on references for that...

He used ShiShi Sonson (Ittoryu) against Kuma, Apoo, King once... Can't count on Daz Bones because it was when he unlocked haki so any move would win (even unnamed moves for the named moves trope).

His Santoryuu he is using against most enemies I can think of... His Nitoryuu I don't remember one (thinking about finishers). And of course the "9" sword style against Kaku.

But this is only a rule for Zoro then. I don't recall Oden ever using 1 sword only. Kaku that uses "4 swords". Hatchan that uses 6. That Octopus from Fishmen Island bro of Hody that uses 8...
Post automatically merged:

Salah WG said:
Gentle Blade is for Blitzing your Opponent (Such as Mr. 1 Fight, Zombie Ryuma Fight & Hody Fight)
Click to expand...
Right I forgot Ryuuma and Hody. Zoro lost one sword after Ennies Lobby so his fight with Ryuuma was totally 1/2 sword style. But he chose the 1 sword instead of 2 as finisher (I don't think 2 sword style has any finisher on Zoro).
Post automatically merged:

Salah WG said:
All Swordsmen fall into one of these Two Categories, such as Brook being Gentle Blade User (He relies on Speed more than Strength)
Shanks is also clearly a Gentle Blade User (He relies on Blitzing his Opponent as seen against Kid & Kizaru)
Cavendish is another example
Click to expand...
Not so sure about those.

Shankstards claims that Shanks is so strong that he can't even cut (LOL).

Brook have that move he stabs from upside down, I guess this would be strong too.
 
Salah WG

Salah WG

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#13
#13
Terra Arseid7 said:
It really doesn't work that simply. We must rely on feats. And the power and speed of the attacks depends on the specific technique that Zoro does at that moment. Regardless of what style you use. The shishi sonson is from Ittoryu and yet it is one of Zoro's most POWERFUL and LETHAL techniques. Although it is true that in general, the 3 sword style is Zoro's strongest. And it doesn't necessarily have to be 33% fast that way LOL

And no, for God's sake, Zoro is not 10 times stronger than before, he is much more. The name of the technique that goes from 108 to 1080 is simply symbolic and aesthetic. I think you think too much about those things.

Pretimeskip took all the mugiwaras using their best attacks to eliminate an PX. Postimeskip with a random hit destroys improved XP.
Click to expand...
I didn't specify how much each Technique uses, i only talked about the Scaling

One-Sword Style Scales Up to 33% of Zoro's Max Strength
Whether Zoro uses 10% or 20% or 33%, that's his Choice & depends on Technique used
But regardless what it is, his Strength Used is Capped at 33%

I didn't say One-Sword Style isn't Destructive or Powerful, i'm talking about how They Scale
For example, when Luffy first used Gear 2, his Physical Strength didn't Change, but his Attacks became much more Powerful right?
So both Strength & Speed increase the Attack's Power Overall

Luffy's Gear 2 & 3 literally show that Speed is Power & Weight is Power
Both Gear 2 & 3 were Extremely Powerful, but it didn't change the Fact that Gear 3 is Slower & Gear 2 lacks Weight
In Zoro's Case, He needs to switch between Sword-Styles to Unleash his Full Potential

For example, Nitoryu Zoro & Zombie Ryuma were Equally Fast, but Ittoryu was Faster
Nitoryu Zoro's Strength was Equal to Kaku's Giraffe Strength, but when He switched to Three-Swords, He Overpowered him Strength-Wise

Who said it's Symbolic? Oda explained that Technique & Zoro himself called it a Cannon.
Yes, Pacifista Example doesn't disapprove what i said, cuz Pre-TS Zoro used Asura to Defeat Pacifista in that Final Combo alongside Sanji/Luffy

If let's say Pre-TS Zoro's Strength was 1, then his Asura was 3
Post-TS Zoro in Base is 10, that means his Strength is more then Three times Pre-TS Asura
That's why Zoro became able to Defeat it that easily, just a Strong Swing (No need for a Technique) & Pacifista was Destroyed
 
Salah WG

Salah WG

‎
#15
#15
Herrera95 said:
Except that Kizaru said exactly the opposite though...


I'm trying to think on references for that...

He used ShiShi Sonson (Ittoryu) against Kuma, Apoo, King once... Can't count on Daz Bones because it was when he unlocked haki so any move would win (even unnamed moves for the named moves trope).

His Santoryuu he is using against most enemies I can think of... His Nitoryuu I don't remember one (thinking about finishers). And of course the "9" sword style against Kaku.

But this is only a rule for Zoro then. I don't recall Oden ever using 1 sword only. Kaku that uses "4 swords". Hatchan that uses 6. That Octopus from Fishmen Island bro of Hody that uses 8...
Post automatically merged:


Right I forgot Ryuuma and Hody. Zoro lost one sword after Ennies Lobby so his fight with Ryuuma was totally 1/2 sword style. But he chose the 1 sword instead of 2 as finisher (I don't think 2 sword style has any finisher on Zoro).
Post automatically merged:


Not so sure about those.

Shankstards claims that Shanks is so strong that he can't even cut (LOL).

Brook have that move he stabs from upside down, I guess this would be strong too.
Click to expand...
Kizaru was talking about Increasing his own Stats cuz He is Logia. I was talking about Weapons used
Swinging a Super Heavy Hammer isn't gonna be as Fast as Swinging a Knife obviously

Think of it this way, Zoro's Fights mostly End in a Mano a Mano Exchange, it's like a Mexican Stand-Off
You shoot your Bullet, i shoot mine

Zoro has Two Options for Victory, either shoot a Bullet that would collide with your Enemy's Bullet & Destroy it
(Such as his Mano a Mano Exchange against Hatchan, Ohm, King, Braham, Pica ... etc)

Or shoot a Bullet that hits your Opponent before They can land theirs (Blitz them)
(Such as his Mano a Mano Exchange against Mr. 1, Zombie Ryuma, Hody ... etc)

Three-Swords Style is Best for First Option
One-Sword Style is Best for Second Option
 
H

Herrera95

#16
#16
Terra Arseid7 said:
Zoro is not 10 times stronger than before, he is much more
Click to expand...
Like 100x.

Terra Arseid7 said:
The shishi sonson is from Ittoryu and yet it is one of Zoro's most POWERFUL and LETHAL techniques
Click to expand...
Yup that's right.

Salah WG said:
Three-Swords = Up to 100% Strength + Up to 33% Speed ---> Becomes Up to 300% Strength + Up to 100% Speed
Two-Swords = Up to 66% Strength + Up to 66% Speed ---> Becomes Up to 200% Strength + Up to 200% Speed
One-Sword = Up to 33% Strength + Up to 100% Speed ---> Becomes Up to 100% Strength + Up to 300% Speed
Click to expand...
Since speed also makes your attack stronger that scale of yours doesn't mean that all sword styles (1, 2 or 3 swords) are equal to each other?

If using 3 swords he becomes stronger but loses speed that is compesate with 2/1 sword style being weaker but faster. At the end you are saying 3 sword style 100% strength + 33% speed = 2 sword style 66% strength + 66% speed = 1 sword style 33% strength + 100% speed
 
Salah WG

Salah WG

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#17
#17
Herrera95 said:
Like 100x.


Yup that's right.


Since speed also makes your attack stronger that scale of yours doesn't mean that all sword styles (1, 2 or 3 swords) are equal to each other?

If using 3 swords he becomes stronger but loses speed that is compesate with 2/1 sword style being weaker but faster. At the end you are saying 3 sword style 100% strength + 33% speed = 2 sword style 66% strength + 66% speed = 1 sword style 33% strength + 100% speed
Click to expand...
Yes, Zoro's Sword-Styles are Overall Equal
That's why Oda gave him all Three & still uses them till this day

But when He wants to use an Attack with 100% Strength Scaling, He must use Santoryu
For 100% Speed, He must use Ittoryu
 
Terra Arseid7

Terra Arseid7

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#18
#18
Salah WG said:
I didn't specify how much each Technique uses, i only talked about the Scaling

One-Sword Style Scales Up to 33% of Zoro's Max Strength
Whether Zoro uses 10% or 20% or 33%, that's his Choice & depends on Technique used
But regardless what it is, his Strength Used is Capped at 33%

I didn't say One-Sword Style isn't Destructive or Powerful, i'm talking about how They Scale
For example, when Luffy first used Gear 2, his Physical Strength didn't Change, but his Attacks became much more Powerful right?
So both Strength & Speed increase the Attack's Power Overall

Luffy's Gear 2 & 3 literally show that Speed is Power & Weight is Power
Both Gear 2 & 3 were Extremely Powerful, but it didn't change the Fact that Gear 3 is Slower & Gear 2 lacks Weight
In Zoro's Case, He needs to switch between Sword-Styles to Unleash his Full Potential

For example, Nitoryu Zoro & Zombie Ryuma were Equally Fast, but Ittoryu was Faster
Nitoryu Zoro's Strength was Equal to Kaku's Giraffe Strength, but when He switched to Three-Swords, He Overpowered him Strength-Wise

Who said it's Symbolic? Oda explained that Technique & Zoro himself called it a Cannon.
Yes, Pacifista Example doesn't disapprove what i said, cuz Pre-TS Zoro used Asura to Defeat Pacifista in that Final Combo alongside Sanji/Luffy

If let's say Pre-TS Zoro's Strength was 1, then his Asura was 3
Post-TS Zoro in Base is 10, that means his Strength is more then Three times Pre-TS Asura
That's why Zoro became able to Defeat it that easily, just a Strong Swing (No need for a Technique) & Pacifista was Destroyed
Click to expand...
No, I'm sorry but you're saying something stupid and it goes against what the manga shows.
You are inventing some % because yes
Many of the Ittoryu techniques are more lethal, Oda simply decided so, and Zoro has many types of skills and repertoire and each one specializes in something, but it is not as simple as putting some percentages of strength and speed.

I put a comment on the topic of Zoro's techniques, which I think from what I have shown I am right. And it is this

Terra Arseid7 said:
I don't know what you think about each style of Zoro, if you believe the same as me in these details that I will mention

I clarify in advance that logically Zoro can adapt and use each style in each situation that favors it.

Ittouryuu:
I think it is the least defensive style or in which Zoro has the least level in hand-to-hand combat exchanging blows or blocking, but it is the fastest and most lethal style. Another negative point is that it is the one with the least area.
Summary: Fast, lethal style, high damage, high ability to damage enemies with strong defenses.
Little defensive and hand-to-hand fighting ability, little area.

Nitoryu:
This style is slower and especially less lethal than Ittouryuu. But it has much more blocking capacity and hand-to-hand fighting capacity, and although it is slower than the Ittouryuu, it is not slower in the sense of linking several techniques in a row or when they are at very short range, as we see in the fight against Kaku in EL or against Ryuma. Additionally, this style has area abilities and recently a support ability that allows it to "fly."
Summary: high blocking ability, close combat, multi-target area skills, connection of techniques. Low lethality and destructive capacity

Santoryu:
This style in general is Zoro's most powerful of the 3 main styles.
It is the one with the greatest defensive capacity, it does not lose capacity in hand-to-hand combat (it maintains the same level as with the Nitoryu), and it has enormous area skills and enormous destructive capacity.
I think it loses lethality and instant speed compared to the Ittoryu's abilities and loses the ability to link techniques compared to the Nitoryu, but otherwise it is superior.
Summary: more complete and balanced style, without having weak points. High destructive and area capacity
Click to expand...
 
H

Herrera95

#19
#19
Salah WG said:
Yes, Zoro's Sword-Styles are Overall Equal
That's why Oda gave him all Three & still uses them till this day

But when He wants to use an Attack with 100% Strength Scaling, He must use Santoryu
For 100% Speed, He must use Ittoryu
Click to expand...
But that my point.

Zoro can be equally powerfull in all 3 styles by your logic.

I would even say it is better for him to drop 2/3 swords styles and keep only 1 sword style since he can compesate the strength with speed.

I think you may be somewhat right but still 2/3 sword styles are overall stronger than 1 sword style and 3 sword style overall stronger than 2 sword style.

Instead of 100 - 66 - 33 like you proposed It is problably like

3 swords - 100 strength 50 speed
2 - sword - 70 strenght 70 speed
1 - sword - 30 strength 100 speed
Post automatically merged:

Terra Arseid7 said:
No, I'm sorry but you're saying something stupid and it goes against what the manga shows.
You are inventing some % because yes
Many of the Ittoryu techniques are more lethal, Oda simply decided so, and Zoro has many types of skills and repertoire and each one specializes in something, but it is not as simple as putting some percentages of strength and speed.

I put a comment on the topic of Zoro's techniques, which I think from what I have shown I am right. And it is this
Click to expand...
I think you misinterpreted him. He is separating strength from power. So Shishi Sonson as top #1 or #2 1 sword style attack would have a combine power of 133% (100% speed + 33% strength) on pair of a said Sanzen Zenkai (33% speed + 100% strength).

Hopefully I wrote the name right...
 
Wizak08

Wizak08

‎
#20
#20
Flames = ACoA emission (ryuo)
King of hell is when he is using both emission and conquwror coating with three swords.
Asura... manifestation or something like that.
 
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