Controversial General Political Discussion
- Thread starter AL sama
- Start date
- Tags #freepalestine are you having fun al? are you having van al? dei must go gaolang > your fav is not paying tax sexist is van having fun al? life goal sister harem real madrid reloaded is innocent tax is the best thing ever happened to us trans rights = human rights trans women are not interested in any of you watch for haters weebs discussing politics lmao worst thread ever
1. Politics like I explained already are here in all those discussion. Only those who don't understand politic don't understand that its already there.
2. Let's make this a godwin point: If fascism arised because people vote for a fascist... does this means that we must respect the wishes of other voters ?
At what point does the "wishes of other users" becomes problematic ? Spoiler: When those wishes goes against the well being of the community.
Because I'm not taking the side of the forum when I'm trying to make politics shine brighter in those place and question -politically - toxic behavior. I'm taking the side of the entire community. A community in which your forum is right now seen as a place of HUGE toxicity. and SOON a place where the far right believes and toxic behavior of the fan base (that actually don't understand One Piece at all) are enabled.
I'm taking a volontary serious stand to make this part of the community better for some people here not to toxicify the entire One Piece fandom more than it already is.
This choice that you guys made, is not you preventing someone from breaking the rules because they can become toxic or insult other and thus create a problematic situation (I'm actually one of the most family friendly person on this forum), its you taking the stand of preventing someone from questionning your position and system and thus potentially create a situation that you don't really know how to handle.
In other words, that's a political choice.
But hey, I understand your position. Its hard to question and change the system. So I'm not angry at all. I find this sanction completely normal in those circounstance and perfectly understandable. (which should raise some questions about one or two things in you if you are really honest) but I'm choosing to take this as an exemple to talk about the process and how seemingly harmfull systems are actually doing choice that can prevent progressism from prevail.
Have a great evening
Crying ? You see me crying here ? You didn't listen to what I said earlier mate ?
I perfectly understand this descision and I was actually waiting for it. I even bet on how long it would take to make it (and I won my own bet lol)
This sanction is completely logical my dear, there is nothing to cry about. Once again I've said EXACTLY what I wanted to say.
This "truly twisted wordlview" sure seems to triggers you mate hehe
Well, I don't really have any interest in shining a light on political subject in Zoro/Sanji threads (even if there is a great political discussion to have on this subject) but in a thread like the Nakama thread where big values and different behaviors are entering in conflict, its important.
2. Let's make this a godwin point: If fascism arised because people vote for a fascist... does this means that we must respect the wishes of other voters ?
At what point does the "wishes of other users" becomes problematic ? Spoiler: When those wishes goes against the well being of the community.
Because I'm not taking the side of the forum when I'm trying to make politics shine brighter in those place and question -politically - toxic behavior. I'm taking the side of the entire community. A community in which your forum is right now seen as a place of HUGE toxicity. and SOON a place where the far right believes and toxic behavior of the fan base (that actually don't understand One Piece at all) are enabled.
I'm taking a volontary serious stand to make this part of the community better for some people here not to toxicify the entire One Piece fandom more than it already is.
This choice that you guys made, is not you preventing someone from breaking the rules because they can become toxic or insult other and thus create a problematic situation (I'm actually one of the most family friendly person on this forum), its you taking the stand of preventing someone from questionning your position and system and thus potentially create a situation that you don't really know how to handle.
In other words, that's a political choice.
But hey, I understand your position. Its hard to question and change the system. So I'm not angry at all. I find this sanction completely normal in those circounstance and perfectly understandable. (which should raise some questions about one or two things in you if you are really honest) but I'm choosing to take this as an exemple to talk about the process and how seemingly harmfull systems are actually doing choice that can prevent progressism from prevail.
Have a great evening
Crying ? You see me crying here ? You didn't listen to what I said earlier mate ?
I perfectly understand this descision and I was actually waiting for it. I even bet on how long it would take to make it (and I won my own bet lol)
This sanction is completely logical my dear, there is nothing to cry about. Once again I've said EXACTLY what I wanted to say.
This "truly twisted wordlview" sure seems to triggers you mate hehe
Well, I don't really have any interest in shining a light on political subject in Zoro/Sanji threads (even if there is a great political discussion to have on this subject) but in a thread like the Nakama thread where big values and different behaviors are entering in conflict, its important.
"Apolotics" not understanding politics - episode 2156:
I will assume that you agree 100% with this descision @TheAncientCenturion.
Well, this just shows that this part of the community is bound to not evolve in term of progressism and stay completely ignorant about progressive subject sand thus will have to fight one day very serious accusations of bigotry.. but hey.. at least this staff took a stand about the subject. Not just the one that could make things better, but that's already a political choice, there is an evolution...
For those not understanding why I said that: I was banned most likely definitely from the Nakama thread for saying this:
"
All stories are political.
Meaning that a discussion about a stories has a LOT of chances to be political as well. And since we are discussing, debating and sometimes arguing about the next Nakama in the crew. We are putting in conflict different characters and therefore different values. And this is what politics are: A conflict of values.
And since some defensors of some character have used or are using some of the values of one character against the values of others.. the result is therefore even more politics than any other debate. Which makes this thread perfectly legitimate to have a political discussion in.
- When we explain that you don't need to be strong to be accepted in the group, we make politics
- When we explain that you need to be an ally and not a murderer to be accepted in the group, we make politics
- When we explain that a character's story had ended because the author choosed to show how important it is to find our own way to express freedom, we make politics
- When we explain that we should have more women in the group, we make politics
- When we explain that somefandom are toxic and why because of structural reasons, we make politics
- When we explain that a character should not be denied just because of their appearance, we make politics
Etc.
Political discussions are all over this thread without you even noticing it.
I'm only putting a spotlight on some of them.
"
It is a sequel to that post on the political thread:
"
What I didn't realized at the time is the political compass of the staff.
- Why are some mods considering that a forum for Mangas shouldn't get a political thread ?
- Why are some mods considering that saying that Minks are just dumb animals is completely normal ?
- Why are some mods considering that trashing Carrot a feminine girl and praising another girl Yamato because of her having masculine attribute (while trashing her actual personnality) is not revealing of any sexist behavior ?
- Why are some mods considering that some form of transphobia are not acceptable but others are ?
- Why are some mods tickled by the action of someone politically labelling others ?
- Why are some mods considering that trashing repetitively on a poster can't be considered toxic and in some cases harrassment ?
- Why are some mods considering normal that posters insults each others here ?
- Why are some mods considering we shouldn't act on the spread of negativity on a forum ?
- Why are some mods considering that calling out the toxicity of other is synonymous of being ourselve toxic ?
Added to that : the structures of power will always used their power/lies/gaslight/ to undermine the questionning of their structure. All the more in moments where the opposition has absolutely no way to contradict its words:
Remember what I said a few month ago: This forum is not just the place where a bunch of nerds reunites:
- The Staff/power is showing a face of apolitism but is really depicting liberals, anti leftist and centrist ideas (you can see that on this thread in majority)
- Toxicity is enabled in a number of discussion and the power only acts in the most radical cases (for example when there is clear case of harrasment and dogpilling, there is no reaction from the staff, and I'm not talking only about my case here)
- The majority of posters, just like in society are rejecting the politization of the story they are praising and are mostly leaning toward apolitism and liberalism. (a bit of progressism.. but not too much... Once someone question racist bias in a discussion, this is too much)
- There is a overwhelming presence of bigoted and conservative ideas and people in the places where politics are discussed and they bare an overwhelming stricking power.
- The radical, simple leftist ideas are invisibilized and laughed at. They are an extreme minority.
- The oppressions are only fought in surface and there is no systemic resolutions taken to stop any kind of bigotry
The point is simple : This forum is just a mini-representation of our society.
So.. what do we do when we want to better society ?
And the problem is not really van or Al, they are just the product of our politically confused society where nerd should not get to talk to much about politics in place were its not obvious.. They are the product of the win of "liberal centrism" the rise of conservatism and the depolitization of the masses..
But hey, this shouldn't stop us from questionning our environments.
Anyway.. note here the absence of warning shots. This time the staff/power knew that no matter how they acted, the debate would continue. So, the tool of the threadban was used. And it will continue as I will bring on and on politization of the subject and others.
So there are basically three way this could end:
- Either I stop talking about the political subjects because I'm tired of talking about it (lol, good luck with that)
- Either I'm banned definitely for keeping bringing up political subjects because those confused folks are tired of continuously banning me (and I will be ban again and again until they are tired of it)
- Either the staff understands that the rules about politics of the forum helps the invisibilization of strong important subjects and enable the development of toxic behaviors and they understands that politics have a place in EVERY debate as long as it is linked to the subject (like it was the case here) as politics are just the reflection on the conflict of values.
So.. @TheAncientCenturion , what is your prefered choice ?
Are you ready to endorse the definitive ban (or continuous ban) of someone on the principles that they are questionning the structure and political compass of your forum ?
Make a stance or ignore me mate. What do you believe in ?
I will assume that you agree 100% with this descision @TheAncientCenturion.
Well, this just shows that this part of the community is bound to not evolve in term of progressism and stay completely ignorant about progressive subject sand thus will have to fight one day very serious accusations of bigotry.. but hey.. at least this staff took a stand about the subject. Not just the one that could make things better, but that's already a political choice, there is an evolution...
For those not understanding why I said that: I was banned most likely definitely from the Nakama thread for saying this:
"
All stories are political.
Meaning that a discussion about a stories has a LOT of chances to be political as well. And since we are discussing, debating and sometimes arguing about the next Nakama in the crew. We are putting in conflict different characters and therefore different values. And this is what politics are: A conflict of values.
And since some defensors of some character have used or are using some of the values of one character against the values of others.. the result is therefore even more politics than any other debate. Which makes this thread perfectly legitimate to have a political discussion in.
- When we explain that you don't need to be strong to be accepted in the group, we make politics
- When we explain that you need to be an ally and not a murderer to be accepted in the group, we make politics
- When we explain that a character's story had ended because the author choosed to show how important it is to find our own way to express freedom, we make politics
- When we explain that we should have more women in the group, we make politics
- When we explain that somefandom are toxic and why because of structural reasons, we make politics
- When we explain that a character should not be denied just because of their appearance, we make politics
Etc.
Political discussions are all over this thread without you even noticing it.
I'm only putting a spotlight on some of them.
"
It is a sequel to that post on the political thread:
"
What I didn't realized at the time is the political compass of the staff.
- Why are some mods considering that a forum for Mangas shouldn't get a political thread ?
- Why are some mods considering that saying that Minks are just dumb animals is completely normal ?
- Why are some mods considering that trashing Carrot a feminine girl and praising another girl Yamato because of her having masculine attribute (while trashing her actual personnality) is not revealing of any sexist behavior ?
- Why are some mods considering that some form of transphobia are not acceptable but others are ?
- Why are some mods tickled by the action of someone politically labelling others ?
- Why are some mods considering that trashing repetitively on a poster can't be considered toxic and in some cases harrassment ?
- Why are some mods considering normal that posters insults each others here ?
- Why are some mods considering we shouldn't act on the spread of negativity on a forum ?
- Why are some mods considering that calling out the toxicity of other is synonymous of being ourselve toxic ?
Added to that : the structures of power will always used their power/lies/gaslight/ to undermine the questionning of their structure. All the more in moments where the opposition has absolutely no way to contradict its words:
Remember what I said a few month ago: This forum is not just the place where a bunch of nerds reunites:
- The Staff/power is showing a face of apolitism but is really depicting liberals, anti leftist and centrist ideas (you can see that on this thread in majority)
- Toxicity is enabled in a number of discussion and the power only acts in the most radical cases (for example when there is clear case of harrasment and dogpilling, there is no reaction from the staff, and I'm not talking only about my case here)
- The majority of posters, just like in society are rejecting the politization of the story they are praising and are mostly leaning toward apolitism and liberalism. (a bit of progressism.. but not too much... Once someone question racist bias in a discussion, this is too much)
- There is a overwhelming presence of bigoted and conservative ideas and people in the places where politics are discussed and they bare an overwhelming stricking power.
- The radical, simple leftist ideas are invisibilized and laughed at. They are an extreme minority.
- The oppressions are only fought in surface and there is no systemic resolutions taken to stop any kind of bigotry
The point is simple : This forum is just a mini-representation of our society.
So.. what do we do when we want to better society ?
And the problem is not really van or Al, they are just the product of our politically confused society where nerd should not get to talk to much about politics in place were its not obvious.. They are the product of the win of "liberal centrism" the rise of conservatism and the depolitization of the masses..
But hey, this shouldn't stop us from questionning our environments.
Anyway.. note here the absence of warning shots. This time the staff/power knew that no matter how they acted, the debate would continue. So, the tool of the threadban was used. And it will continue as I will bring on and on politization of the subject and others.
So there are basically three way this could end:
- Either I stop talking about the political subjects because I'm tired of talking about it (lol, good luck with that)
- Either I'm banned definitely for keeping bringing up political subjects because those confused folks are tired of continuously banning me (and I will be ban again and again until they are tired of it)
- Either the staff understands that the rules about politics of the forum helps the invisibilization of strong important subjects and enable the development of toxic behaviors and they understands that politics have a place in EVERY debate as long as it is linked to the subject (like it was the case here) as politics are just the reflection on the conflict of values.
So.. @TheAncientCenturion , what is your prefered choice ?
Are you ready to endorse the definitive ban (or continuous ban) of someone on the principles that they are questionning the structure and political compass of your forum ?
Make a stance or ignore me mate. What do you believe in ?
In short. What I'm saying is that mods took the stand to never let shine any political light on already preexisting political discussions and behaviors in those kind of threads and are thus choosing to keep people in ignorance about the importance of questionning those position and behaviors there thus preventing anyone from ever questionning toxic behaviors that are enabled by a part of the staff that believe that some actually very problematic behaviors are allowed. (racism / sexism / harrassment etc.)
Anyway. This was predictable and I won the bet. I was indeed banned in less that 5 hours.
Apolitics, confusionnist and liberals.. you guys are really predictible. I'm actually glad that this was my last post there, it was really the best way to go lmao
Anyway, this will give me more time to focus on the bigotry here, I will not give up just yet. There are still some worthy people here.[/QUOTE]
People are not interested in having political arguments in this forum outside of this one section.
We are a manga forum, not political. If you want to talk politics so badly, why don't you register to one of the dozens of political forums that exist and have arguments with people who actually want to give you the time of day? And may even agree with you?
1. Politics like I explained already are here in all those discussion. Only those who don't understand politic don't understand that its already there.
2. Let's make this a godwin point: If fascism arised because people vote for a fascist... does this means that we must respect the wishes of other voters ?
At what point does the "wishes of other users" becomes problematic ? Spoiler: When those wishes goes against the well being of the community.
Because I'm not taking the side of the forum when I'm trying to make politics shine brighter in those place and question -politically - toxic behavior. I'm taking the side of the entire community. A community in which your forum is right now seen as a place of HUGE toxicity. and SOON a place where the far right believes and toxic behavior of the fan base (that actually don't understand One Piece at all) are enabled.
I'm taking a volontary serious stand to make this part of the community better for some people here not to toxicify the entire One Piece fandom more than it already is.
This choice that you guys made, is not you preventing someone from breaking the rules because they can become toxic or insult other and thus create a problematic situation (I'm actually one of the most family friendly person on this forum), its you taking the stand of preventing someone from questionning your position and system and thus potentially create a situation that you don't really know how to handle.
In other words, that's a political choice.
But hey, I understand your position. Its hard to question and change the system. So I'm not angry at all. I find this sanction completely normal in those circounstance and perfectly understandable. (which should raise some questions about one or two things in you if you are really honest) but I'm choosing to take this as an exemple to talk about the process and how seemingly harmfull systems are actually doing choice that can prevent progressism from prevail.
Have a great evening
Crying ? You see me crying here ? You didn't listen to what I said earlier mate ?
I perfectly understand this descision and I was actually waiting for it. I even bet on how long it would take to make it (and I won my own bet lol)
This sanction is completely logical my dear, there is nothing to cry about. Once again I've said EXACTLY what I wanted to say.
This "truly twisted wordlview" sure seems to triggers you mate hehe
Well, I don't really have any interest in shining a light on political subject in Zoro/Sanji threads (even if there is a great political discussion to have on this subject) but in a thread like the Nakama threads were big values and different behaviors are entering in conflict, its important.
2. Let's make this a godwin point: If fascism arised because people vote for a fascist... does this means that we must respect the wishes of other voters ?
At what point does the "wishes of other users" becomes problematic ? Spoiler: When those wishes goes against the well being of the community.
Because I'm not taking the side of the forum when I'm trying to make politics shine brighter in those place and question -politically - toxic behavior. I'm taking the side of the entire community. A community in which your forum is right now seen as a place of HUGE toxicity. and SOON a place where the far right believes and toxic behavior of the fan base (that actually don't understand One Piece at all) are enabled.
I'm taking a volontary serious stand to make this part of the community better for some people here not to toxicify the entire One Piece fandom more than it already is.
This choice that you guys made, is not you preventing someone from breaking the rules because they can become toxic or insult other and thus create a problematic situation (I'm actually one of the most family friendly person on this forum), its you taking the stand of preventing someone from questionning your position and system and thus potentially create a situation that you don't really know how to handle.
In other words, that's a political choice.
But hey, I understand your position. Its hard to question and change the system. So I'm not angry at all. I find this sanction completely normal in those circounstance and perfectly understandable. (which should raise some questions about one or two things in you if you are really honest) but I'm choosing to take this as an exemple to talk about the process and how seemingly harmfull systems are actually doing choice that can prevent progressism from prevail.
Have a great evening
Crying ? You see me crying here ? You didn't listen to what I said earlier mate ?
I perfectly understand this descision and I was actually waiting for it. I even bet on how long it would take to make it (and I won my own bet lol)
This sanction is completely logical my dear, there is nothing to cry about. Once again I've said EXACTLY what I wanted to say.
This "truly twisted wordlview" sure seems to triggers you mate hehe
Well, I don't really have any interest in shining a light on political subject in Zoro/Sanji threads (even if there is a great political discussion to have on this subject) but in a thread like the Nakama threads were big values and different behaviors are entering in conflict, its important.
You may have missed it. But manga are extremelly political. So trying to prevent political discussions about political stories in forum talking about those stories is just like preventing scientist from talking about science in a scientific congress..
Those forums already know the importance of politics. What worries me is those who don't.
Those forums already know the importance of politics. What worries me is those who don't.
Well technically yes it does. But noone is advocating to talk about the Israel/Palestine conflict in the Nakama thread. Politics don't have to be so conflictual or politically charged. Talking about politic means understanding and questionning the values and behavior that are socially acceptable in society.
It can be as simple as questionning why we want more girls in the crew.
Everyone here understand politics (well not everyone in reality) but very FEW understand the PURPOSE of politics and most importantly the purpose and importance of the process of politization of debates and social discussions.
That's just an escuse. If escapism was the case, there would be no conflict on this forum. And yet, people are engaging in very POLITICAL behaviors even when they don't realize it.
Plus, equating politic with the absence of escapism is fallacious and dangerous. First its explaining that we can't have fun or "escape" with political discussion which is wrong, we can. That's what we are doing here most of the time. Second its an argument that is explaining that politics should be absent from some spaces, which is just a way to enable some very toxic behavior and prevent anyone from questionning them.
It can be as simple as questionning why we want more girls in the crew.
Everyone here understand politics (well not everyone in reality) but very FEW understand the PURPOSE of politics and most importantly the purpose and importance of the process of politization of debates and social discussions.
That's just an escuse. If escapism was the case, there would be no conflict on this forum. And yet, people are engaging in very POLITICAL behaviors even when they don't realize it.
Plus, equating politic with the absence of escapism is fallacious and dangerous. First its explaining that we can't have fun or "escape" with political discussion which is wrong, we can. That's what we are doing here most of the time. Second its an argument that is explaining that politics should be absent from some spaces, which is just a way to enable some very toxic behavior and prevent anyone from questionning them.
