Zemmi

GodMommie
I don't get Dawkins' point. Even biologically there are intersexual people, who don't have a regular XX or XY chromosome.
I could argue this by biology humans have two eyes, two legs, two arms etc but their is a very small percentage that are anomalies to that biology but it doesn't change its natural structure. I could also add other chromosomal abnormalities as well. Doesn't make them less worthy just different.

But I find debates on this kinda moot because not only can adults live what life makes the happiest they should as long as they don't force it on others. I have the same belief when it comes to religion, people shouldn't be force feed their religion to others, actually this is my belief on many things. Live your best life.
 

Zemmi

GodMommie
So you are agreeing with what he is saying and what he stands for here ?

Just to be sure:kayneshrug:

Because I don't think you understand the statement you just made here..


+1. Taking about binary sex to begin with is problematic on a scientific point of view.


Anarchism, no different from communism ? hm... are you sure about that mate ?



Actually, this time we do. Capitalism does exist. What you may be referencing is liberatarianism.



Why do you assume that there will be corruption in the random democratic process ? We are talking about France here, not Russia.



This has absolutely nothing to do with the subject.



Nop. People like me who are unemployed should be paid too actually. That's why we will ask the rich to accept a big taxation, so that there is an equilibrium mate :)



Actually I'm pretty sure that if you pay people more, they will most likely be happier and more happy to work for you and therefore be much more productive or help the company to be more productive. But hey... maybe you prefer to keep them in financial insecurity for more productivity... lets see what model will work the best !
:shocking:


Sure mate. Keep nightmaring.. we will build a better society without you in the meantime


Bro, you don't understand, this isn't a choice, this is the law. Each worker needs to be paid the minimum wage in France when they have a salary and work fulltime. And unemployed people are also paid (or helped if you prefer) mate (for example, I am and I can't work). Its less than the minimum wage, and its not enough to live, but its already something.

Minimum wage is not an option mate. It should be a right.



I hate the poor by saying that we need to tax rich people to give more to the poor ? I feel like you don't even understand what you are saying sometimes ...




Yeah.. you have some reading comprehension problems.. I don't know how to fix that.

Again and with fewer words for you:

Meritocracy = will never exist
Meritocracy as a system = do not exist
The liberal system believing in meritocracy = do exist


I have.. that's precisely why I ask you to learn about sociology. Those are real data mate. Educate yourself.



Nop + existentialism = bunch of BS



Not communist, sorry.


See.. that's where your true color shines.... poor people for you are poor because they are "not intelligent" enough.

That's the problem with meritocracy. Its not a just belief. Its an oppressive one.


Spoilers: libertarians are the evolved form of liberals. You have the same values. You guyz are both dark type of pokemons.



Which is desinformation again. Hamas is indeed a resistant group that is antisionist and has members that did a war crime, YES. But there is no evidences suggesting that the group is aiming at the extinction of jews mate. You are referring to an outdated text that didn't made the unanimity to begin with.

Are there people who want the end of jews in Hamas ? Probably.
Is this the target of the group ? Most likely not since the group is restructed every years with new uninformed young members.
Is resistance illegitimate against Israel ? Not at all.

And you are still denying a genocide :)



Which is debatable to begin with : Sources ?

But also not necessaraly due to capitalism... and even then... how many years ago was capitalism created again ? We will need to wait how many more centuries before seeing the end of poverty Mr Ford ?

-------------



Euh... Its gonna be complicated, I didn't see the movie.. Ask me for Star Wars if you want but Twilight... i'm not getting close to that stuff anytime soon. Sorry lol



Of course, that could be fun. More complicated since Bad Boys mainly stands because of its sexist and macho tropes but I guess we can cook something fun if we think hard enough. We could for example embrace completely the misandric aspect of the characters, push the cursor to the extrem caricatural limits (while keeping the story coherent politically and not fall into liberal BS) and do a Death Proof like movie while keeping the character touching and deeply sensitive.

Actually, that's a good idea for a movie. I would watch that. That's would be pretty cool.


Do white boyz are oppressed systematically by society ? Do we need that representation of that color swap ? You may have you answer here..



Politics means the conflict of values and a vision on how to act in society. ALL stories have that without exception (I can tell you that precisely because that is one thing I had to learn to create stories).

No one can escape the political nature of stories, not even writers. You can have non political movies, but those will not be stories, its will be experimental movies about a plant in a pot.


That's a very good question. Actually you can check all the episode of pokemon and ALL without exception will deliver a vision and values in conflict. Therefore, a political vision.

And because a little bit of sweetness doesn't hurt anyone.. Let's take for example my little favorite of the very last bunch of episode from Pokemon Horizon (Spoilers) :

Episode 40: "The treasure that washed ashore - Farewell Nyahoja?"

In this episode, Liko is having a battle with her Nyahoja (who is a bit stronger than the usual Nyahoja) against Roy and his Hogator.



But in the meantime, her Terapagos starts to walk into the battle out of nowhere. Nyahoja attacks Hogator, who dodges, and Liko jumps to protect Terapagos from the attack of her Nyahoja.




Liko falls and hurt her wrist, which shocks Nyahoja.



Liko is okay and reassure her with a smile, but her Nyahoja is feeling very down by this and she quits the ship to head toward a cat house she noticed earlier in the episode with a surprised face (we don't know what this house is)



Liko who is looking for her pokemon, follows her lead toward the house that ends up being a care center for cat pokemon before they are given to trainers. The caretaker explains that Liko's Nyahoja was actually raised here and that she never forgets a face.



She explains that Liko's Nyahoja was actually quite unique. That she had troubled fitting in with the rest of the pokemon.



The caretaker also explain that some pokemons come back here because they do not get along well with their trainer and that pokemon and trainer therefore sometimes have to stop being partners, which shocks Liko.



Liko jumps into the garden to look for Nyahoja that she found on the roof. The Nyahoja notice her wrist bandage and flees her. Liko doesn't understands, she follows her into the house and the garden but Nyahoja just doesn't listen. Liko tries to grab her to try to understand what is happening but Nyahoja ends up scratching Liko's hand.



Not knowing what to do. Liko comes back to the house where the Caretaker explains her taht her and Nyahoja are actually quite alike. She explains that Nyahoja used to spend her time on the roof bored and not wanting to play with others (most likely because she had trouble fitting in, just like Liko who is extremely cerebral)



But one day.. when the Pokemon were playing on the roof, one of the Nyahoja fell after an missed attack..



And.. Liko's Nyahoja saved the pokemon because of her strong power



Which.. helped her integrate the group. With the help of her strong power, she could help harvest fruit for her new friend and protect them..



At least that's what she thought.. Because one day, a Pokemon a Wanaider trapped the group into its grip. Nyahoja thought that she could use her power to help her friends...



.. but ended up hurting all of them because of the strenght of her power.



Which obviously shook all the Nyahoja included Liko's which started to be fear by the little group



Nyahoja depressed, went back on the roof... And Liko remembers that at first Nyahoja had trouble using Leafage, but she ended up being able to give a strong attack once she trusted Liko.



Liko understands that Nyahoja must be afraid that she abandons her like her old friends did at the time and that's why she came to the house. The care taker explains that is why it was such a relief to see her face in the rotom phone "that" day of the pokemon selection. Because Nyahoja couldn't stop glazing at Liko's face.



So Liko goes back to the garden and grabs Nyahoja once again.. but this time, Liko is not scared to be scratched, because she has something to say to her ...





"You scratched me when we first met, too"
"So many things started on that day.. My heart's been pounding ever since."
"Being kidnapped... Jumping from roofs, running around.. going to unfamiliar towns.. So many things that felt new and scary.."
"But because I had you with me, I was always smiling in the end. No matter how scary or how tought it might be..."



And thus, Liko and Nyahoja reunites..



Love love love.. yes... Thing is.. Liko's pokemon are quite a bunch.. and when we ask them to stay on the ship, they follow you and ends up kidnapped.. And so, Nyahoja is facing the same situation once again...



But this time she her friend's guidance with her.



And thus Nyahoja overcome the fear and use Leafage once again.. wait.. no. not leafage. Magical Leaf, a new move !



She manages to save her friend.

And at the end of the episode.. she face again Hogator and uses her new move, which makes them win the fight.



The end.

-------------------

My point is that there are no little stories and that all stories are political, even when you don't realize it.

In this little and simple (but great story) multiple messages are delivered by the authors and multiple values are put in conflict:

- We need to help our friends overcome their own personnal conflict with love and not violence.
- We need to overcomes our fear of the unknown to grow
- We must not fear to help people in distress because of our power
- We must not exclude ourself from the world because of our mistakes
- We must accept the pain of others, even when it hurts
Etc.

With values in conflict such as:

- Fear / Courage
- Despair / Optimism
- Exclusion / Inclusion
- Sadness / Acceptance
- Abandon / Friendship
etc.

Both represented simultaniously by Nyahoja and Liko.


You might think that those are simple values and messages, but they are not. Yes in Pokemon, that is made for kids, those values are more liberals and a bit soften.. but they are not less impactfull or important.

All those message about the way to act in society and values are some of the brick needed for the foundations of good society.

So, even when stories are simple (and not bad) short and made for kids.. they will ALWAYS have those messages about the way to act in the world and values getting along..

And all of this make this story, like every others.. political.

-------------

So.. now.. imagine when we are talking about One Piece @TheAncientCenturion
Macho stereotypes are the best ones. I'm part of a book club you should see some of the stuff those women want to read. Lol.
 

AL sama

Red Haired
That's a very good question. Actually you can check all the episode of pokemon and ALL without exception will deliver a vision and values in conflict. Therefore, a political vision.

And because a little bit of sweetness doesn't hurt anyone.. Let's take for example my little favorite of the very last bunch of episode from Pokemon Horizon (Spoilers) :
not gonna read cause I plan to watch the new anime

nonetheless I highly doubt I'd agree with any of your points
 
nonetheless I highly doubt I'd agree with any of your points
The point is that making characters make choices because of specific values means that you are giving or choosing - as a writer - a point of view on the best way to act in society in a certain situation. Which is in other words, the action of putting against eachothers differents values about the way to act in society and values in conflict is what creates a political conflict.

No matter if the story is for kids, or short, or animated, or simple, or big, or epic. You will find that basic principle everywhere in storytelling.

I could do the same with any story. So if you want, you can give me one simple story that we both know and that you like and that you don't feel is political and I could do the same demonstration.

Because without that basic storytelling principle, its simply impossible to create stories.
 

AL sama

Red Haired
The point is that making characters make choices because of specific values means that you are giving or choosing - as a writer - a point of view on the best way to act in society in a certain situation. Which is in other words, the action of putting against eachothers differents values about the way to act in society and values in conflict is what creates a political conflict.

No matter if the story is for kids, or short, or animated, or simple, or big, or epic. You will find that basic principle everywhere in storytelling.

I could do the same with any story. So if you want, you can give me one simple story that we both know and that you like and that you don't feel is political and I could do the same demonstration.

Because without that basic storytelling principle, its simply impossible to create stories.
sure lol
 
Lol, that literally overthrows his point. He says it's binary, when it clearly isn't.
He says there are 2 sexes, and that is the case with humans.
[automerge]1710826654[/automerge]
I could argue this by biology humans have two eyes, two legs, two arms etc but their is a very small percentage that are anomalies to that biology but it doesn't change its natural structure. I could also add other chromosomal abnormalities as well. Doesn't make them less worthy just different.

But I find debates on this kinda moot because not only can adults live what life makes the happiest they should as long as they don't force it on others. I have the same belief when it comes to religion, people shouldn't be force feed their religion to others, actually this is my belief on many things. Live your best life.
I also think its interesting because intersex and chromosomal irregularities dont have anything to do with transgenderism. Dont know why people feel the need to bring this up at all
[automerge]1710826708[/automerge]
you are agreeing with what he is saying and what he stands for here ?

Just to be sure:kayneshrug:

Because I don't think you understand the statement you just made here..
I agree with there being two sexes in humans
 

Zemmi

GodMommie
He says there are 2 sexes, and that is the case with humans.
[automerge]1710826654[/automerge]

I also think its interesting because intersex and chromosomal irregularities dont have anything to do with transgenderism. Dont know why people feel the need to bring this up at all
[automerge]1710826708[/automerge]

I agree with there being two sexes in humans
It's an unhonest argument. That's the only reason I responded to it. It's a form of a gotcha question, but when broken down it doesn't stand up to reality.
[automerge]1710844050[/automerge]
Well.. yeah. Why do you think I fought so much on storytelling and politics at the same time ?

:kayneshrug:

"Stories are only entertainment" is for normies. Now its time to learn what stories truly are.
As someone who writes, I think people make things political that aren't political. Most of my writing doesn't have a political theme, but anyone can turn it into it, if they widen the umbrella of diving into human themes like tribalism, to make it a political statement instead of human nature. It doesn't make the story political nor mean the author had an intent to push a political narrative.
 
Last edited:
:kata:Yup, sure.



As a specie humans are binary: male and female.
Not really no.


I agree with there being two sexes in humans
Which is not what he is saying. He is saying that people that explain that women can have a penis are science deniers.

Which is: Transphobia. He is also parading with an openly anti-trans activist.

So I ask you again, do you agree with this ?



Most of my writing doesn't have a political theme
They have. Its simply impossible for you to write a story without that. So either you are not aware of it like 90% of the writer on this planet or you are trying to deceive me.

If you are able to make a story without adressing and putting specific values about the way to act in the world into conflict, I'm very curious to see what the result is. Because it would be a world premiere.


to make it a political statement instead of human nature
There is no such thing as human nature.
 
For @Zemmi @AL sama @Uncle Van and for those who don't understand why I'm talking about politic in stories:



Its of course simplified, but it works for literally ALL stories!

This fuck denies Human Nature but believes Man is Women and Women is a Man.
Him and his Ilk love to twist things to fit their corrupted viewpoints. Smh.
Trans women are women and Trans men are men you transphobic piece of work.
 
Last edited:

Zemmi

GodMommie
:kata:Yup, sure.




Not really no.



Which is not what he is saying. He is saying that people that explain that women can have a penis are science deniers.

Which is: Transphobia. He is also parading with an openly anti-trans activist.

So I ask you again, do you agree with this ?




They have. Its simply impossible for you to write a story without that. So either you are not aware of it like 90% of the writer on this planet or you are trying to deceive me.

If you are able to make a story without adressing and putting specific values about the way to act in the world into conflict, I'm very curious to see what the result is. Because it would be a world premiere.



There is no such thing as human nature.
Here is the problem. You can tell if an author is politically motivated, which is where I say oh that woke garbage. Then you have writers with not political motive in their story and these tend to be the better story IMO, because it's not trying to sell a narrative it's just telling a story of characters and different themes, that people attempt to make political, but really aren't. You can't make someone's message political when there is no intent on the creators' behalf except to make a realistic word.

I guess what makes something woke garbage or not, is the creator's intent which is revealed in the story.
[automerge]1710856862[/automerge]
Unsure how I feel about this. I think it shows a major failure in the education system though.

The United States says most adults read at a 7th & 8th grade level and the UK recommends not to use vocabulary or sentence structure above the 4th/5th grade level.
 
Last edited:
You can tell if an author is politically motivated
Yes.. I can. Because ALL author are politically motivated, even when they are not conscious of it.

As I explained with this Drawing:



Politics are simply what we call the conflict between different value concerning the way society (or the state) should work. In other words, politics are a conflict between differents visions on the way we should act in society. Its as simple as that.

So:

- When Jack Sparrow in Pirate of the Caribbean 3 chooses to stab Davy Jones's hearth with the hand of Will to save him at the cost of his own dream for immortality, the writer is making a political choice. They are explaining that if necessary, we must put aside our own desire to save the people we love. This is a vision on the way we should act in society, a political vision.

- When Luke in the Empire Strikes back refuses to follow his father and chooses to let himself fall into oblivion, the writer is making a political choice. They are explaining that no matter the cost, you shall never be tempted by fascist ideas, even when they come from the people you might have admired. This is a vision on the way we should act in society, a political vision.

- When Edward in Twilight (yes you made me see the end of Twilight, good job), chooses to suck on Bella's blood and stop before killing her, the writer is making a political choice. They are explaining that we must find the will to do what is right and control our behavior to save the people we care about. This is an extremely strong liberal vision on the way we should act in society, but still a political vision.

ALL stories in the universe are ALL depicting in one form of another this type of conflict.

Meaning that all stories are foundamentally political. Even when the author is not conscious of it.

There is ALWAYS an intent of the authors. There is no stories without intent.

Again, ALL stories are political. Without exception. Politic is a foundamental brick of storytelling and one of the reasons why we have so much bad stories right now, is because people are ignoring that foundamental.
 
Last edited:

Zemmi

GodMommie
Yes.. I can. Because ALL author are politically motivated, even when they are not conscious of it.

As I explained with this Drawing:



Politics are simply what we call the conflict between different value concerning the way society (or the state) should work. In other words, politics are a conflict between differents visions on the way we should act in society. Its as simple as that.

So:

- When Jack Sparrow in Pirate of the Caribbean 3 chooses to stab Davy Jones's hearth with the hand of Will to save him at the cost of his own dream for immortality, the writer is making a political choice. They are explaining that if necessary, we must put aside our own desire to save the people we love. This is a vision on the way we should act in society, a political vision.

- When Luke in the Empire Strikes back refuses to follow his father and chooses to let himself fall into oblivion, the writer is making a political choice. They are explaining that no matter the cost, you shall never be tempted by fascist ideas, even when they come from the people you might have admired. This is a vision on the way we should act in society, a political vision.

- When Edward in Twilight (yes you made me see the end of Twilight, good job), chooses to suck on Bella's blood and stop before killing her, the writer is making a political choice. They are explaining that if you we must find the will to do what is right and control our behavior to save the people we care about. This is an extremely strong liberal vision on the way we should act in society, but still a political vision.

ALL stories in the universe are ALL depicting in one form of another this type of conflict.

Meaning that all stories are foundamentally political. Even when the author is not conscious of it.


There is ALWAYS an intent of the authors. There is no stories without intent.

Give me any stories (that I know), and I will demonstrate to you that they are political just as I demonstrated that a simple Pokemon episode can be as well.

Again, ALL stories are political. Without exception. Politic is a foundamental brick of storytelling and one of the reasons why we have so much bad stories right now, is because people are ignoring that foundamental.
I think this is going to be an endless circle because you see the world in a political light and don't realize most people don't live their lives in such ways.

Self-sacrifice is a theme I love. It isn't a political message. I have a character who will die for his group, but will also kill innocent people if it saves just a single member of his group. It's a theme of being human and what matters to who that person is, which I get you try to make political, but you will have to define how such a thing is political when say in my universe there are no gov't consequences to his actions, there are no policies forbidding it. It's him being human and in short, doing what he wants.

You want all values to be political, when people can have their values without pushing it on others or even wanting political or policy changes to be affected by their own beliefs.
 
Top