So my thread about Kaido was received better than I thought it would, so now you are ready to a very harsh truth, it pains me to say it but all the evidence points at one direction which is that "Oden and Kaido surpassed Whitbeard and Roger in terms of strength" and I now it's bad, it's really bad but Oda wats a Samurai be the strongest and I can't do anything but to accept the truth, I hope I'm wrong but it's just hope with zero evidence.
Let's recap what I said about Oden vs Rayleigh thread.
My conclusion was based on the evidence from manga, that showed that Oden never fought against Rayleigh but only against Roger. Back then Oden was weaker and has become stronger while traveling with Roger and Whitbeard for around decade (look how powerful Luffy has become with 2 years of training and Oden had from 5 to 10 years of experience from Roger and Whitbeard) so he came back to Wano much stronger than he left Wano.
In my thread about Kaido people were telling me that Kaido now is much stronger than ha was 20 years ago, so here is what I responded to the same thing in deferent thread.
Yes, Kaido has become stronger since then and I agree with you guys 100%, but the gap between Kaido 20 years ago and now is so small that it's almost irrelevant.
The evidence of Oden and Kaido being the strongest.
We know that Kaido has fought against Rocks' crew members numerous times, we know that Roger and Garp clashed at least for few seconds with Kaido, we Know that Kaido has challenged both Marians and Yonkos but the only one who was able to scar Kaido was Oden, and he did it casually as if it was a regular thecnique and if you think that it was only back when Kaido was just an apprentice in Rocks' crew, then look at this.
Big Mom and Kaido had all out fight for 24 hours and no one was damaged nether to say scared (big feats for Big Mom), Shanks and Kaido had clash with each other with same result, and look at Kaido's scar... it's Big, like really big. It's the biggest scar in one piece it's even bigger than Oden who is around 4 meters tall, Oden's AP is fu:k:d up.
So, now look what nnarrator said about both Kaido and Oden's strength.
Keep in mind that Kaido was called WSC after Oden's death, I'd say Oden was the strongest on the land and after Kaido killed him he became the WSC. It's no wander that Kaido was scared of Oden since he had the power to kill him, keep in mind that back then Kaido wasn't suicidal and he became the one after Oden's death, could that be that Oden was the only one who could possibly kill Kaido and now the world is boring whiteout the only one who could kill Kaido?
And here Oden confirms what I said. Oden puts himself above Whitbeard cuz Whitbeard is still alive and healthy, and I'm not going to consider that Oden was mentally ill hence Oden>Whitbread=Roger just like Kaido>Whitbeard=Roger Oden suggests that amongst all people on the planet he's the only one who has the chance to kill Kaido and if he can't then nobody can't, which means Kaido was and is stronger than Roger and Whitbeard. If It was just one factor/evidence then I wouldn't pay attention but there's to much for me to dismiss it.
And I said to them, I quote: We've never seen Yonkos using haki, so we can't say that Whitbeard and Roger's haki was stronger than theirs etc.
And as we can see, I ended up being right...
We found out that Kaido has the same
level of haki as Roger and Whitbeard,
but we also got an answer to another question/complaint from people. Some of you were saying that: Oden can't possibly be on the same level as Whitbeard and Roger because he was pushed around by Roger's attack, while I was saying that Oden became stronger during his journey with Roger.
And unlike your words, mine were backed up by the manga, but the main problem was that Oden spent with Roger only one year, and some of you were saying that it wasn't enough for Oden to grow stronger.
And here we can see Luffy figuring out how to use advanced CoC after getting hit by Kaido with CoC attack. Luffy managed to figure it out in just few days, do you really think that Oden wouldn't be able to do the same after being hit by Roger's CoC attack!? And unlike Luffy Oden had one year to learn it while being surrounded by multiple CoC haki users. Do you really think that Oden, who had interest in everything wouldn't ask Roger and Whitbeard about their haki, especially after being surprised by the fact that their weapons weren't even touching!? Of course he would, and Roger probably thought him how use advanced CoC.
Both Luffy and Oden clearly used combination of advanced CoA and CoC to significantly damage Kaido. There is/was a reason of why Kaido was so scared of Oden, he was shiting his pants just by seeing him.
Kaido even compares Luffy to those few who had/have advanced CoC and CoA. So, yet again, both Kaido and Oden were at the very least equal to Roger and Whitbeard.
Even Whitbeard acknowledged Oden's strength... it's not just Oden who said "if I can't take down Kaido then nobody from our generation will" it's also Whitbeard who also acknowledged the same thing, Whitbeard himself refused to go and fight against Kaido.
New information + the old ones that I missed previously.
Let's recap what I said about Oden vs Rayleigh thread.
By the way, if things come to a debate I wanna repost my old post as a factor, feel free to use it.
Guys I don't care who do you think will win in Rayleigh vs Katakuri fight, but stop comparing him to Oden, Oden is on different tier compared to Rayleigh.
Oden's backstory was similar to Big Mom's backstory (Oda is giving Oden a top tier potential like Big Mom) the guy was using Enma at age of 4.
Whitebeard stopped his crew members from fighting against Oden and told them to hide behind him.
Whitbeard knew that there's no one in his crew that could fight against Oden and even compares Oden to his previous crew members likes of Big Mom, Kaido, Shiki etc.
Roger like Whitbeard didn't let his crew members to fight against Oden (even though he was little bid late since Oden already defeated some of them) it was represented in comedic way, but that doesn't change the fact that both Roger and Whitbeard faced Oden by themselves, and even Rayleigh and Copper teamed up against Oden. Roger wouldn't be interested in Oden if Oden was on Rayleigh's level, he wanted to test him since Oden was somewhat compared to him, he wasn't on Roger's level but he was on the same tier.
In Roger pirates vs Whitbeard pirates panel we can't see Oden since Oden is fighting with Roger, Knowing Oden he wouldn't be interested in Rayleigh and would try to test his strength in against the strongest.
In this panel Oda compares Oden, Whitbread and Roger to Ace, Sabo and Luffy and guess what...
Against whom did Luffy and Sabo fight to test their strength? Yeah, against Ace Roger's son, Sabo was almost equal to Ace and and even defeated him multiple times while Luffy was always defeated by Ace and same dynamic is here.
I'm pretty sure Oden fought only against Roger and was always defeated like Luffy while Whitbeard was almost equal to Roger like Sabo to Ace, and even their wounds are on the same place the parallel is clear.
Oden scarred Kaido, that is feat that even Whitbeard and Roger couldn't achieve, and we Know that Whitbeard fought against Kaido.
Oda again comperes Oden to likes of Whitbeard and Roger (Oden himself says that if he can't defeat Kaido then nobody can) which means that Oden was at the very least equal to Whitbeard.
Stop comparing Oden to Rayleigh and this is saying you someone who hates Oden the most, I hate that character for ruining for me Wano arc, I hate his stupidity, I hate his designe and ugly face but I can accept the simple truth even though that Rayleigh is my top three characters. What Rayleigh did in Sabaody was the same what Marco did in mareanford, Rayleigh stopped Kizaru's attack in the same way how Marco stopped Kizaru's attack and fought back, keep it real and stop the BS.
Guys I don't care who do you think will win in Rayleigh vs Katakuri fight, but stop comparing him to Oden, Oden is on different tier compared to Rayleigh.
Oden's backstory was similar to Big Mom's backstory (Oda is giving Oden a top tier potential like Big Mom) the guy was using Enma at age of 4.
Whitebeard stopped his crew members from fighting against Oden and told them to hide behind him.
Whitbeard knew that there's no one in his crew that could fight against Oden and even compares Oden to his previous crew members likes of Big Mom, Kaido, Shiki etc.
Roger like Whitbeard didn't let his crew members to fight against Oden (even though he was little bid late since Oden already defeated some of them) it was represented in comedic way, but that doesn't change the fact that both Roger and Whitbeard faced Oden by themselves, and even Rayleigh and Copper teamed up against Oden. Roger wouldn't be interested in Oden if Oden was on Rayleigh's level, he wanted to test him since Oden was somewhat compared to him, he wasn't on Roger's level but he was on the same tier.
In Roger pirates vs Whitbeard pirates panel we can't see Oden since Oden is fighting with Roger, Knowing Oden he wouldn't be interested in Rayleigh and would try to test his strength in against the strongest.
In this panel Oda compares Oden, Whitbread and Roger to Ace, Sabo and Luffy and guess what...
Against whom did Luffy and Sabo fight to test their strength? Yeah, against Ace Roger's son, Sabo was almost equal to Ace and and even defeated him multiple times while Luffy was always defeated by Ace and same dynamic is here.
I'm pretty sure Oden fought only against Roger and was always defeated like Luffy while Whitbeard was almost equal to Roger like Sabo to Ace, and even their wounds are on the same place the parallel is clear.
Oden scarred Kaido, that is feat that even Whitbeard and Roger couldn't achieve, and we Know that Whitbeard fought against Kaido.
Oda again comperes Oden to likes of Whitbeard and Roger (Oden himself says that if he can't defeat Kaido then nobody can) which means that Oden was at the very least equal to Whitbeard.
Stop comparing Oden to Rayleigh and this is saying you someone who hates Oden the most, I hate that character for ruining for me Wano arc, I hate his stupidity, I hate his designe and ugly face but I can accept the simple truth even though that Rayleigh is my top three characters. What Rayleigh did in Sabaody was the same what Marco did in mareanford, Rayleigh stopped Kizaru's attack in the same way how Marco stopped Kizaru's attack and fought back, keep it real and stop the BS.
In my thread about Kaido people were telling me that Kaido now is much stronger than ha was 20 years ago, so here is what I responded to the same thing in deferent thread.
He indeed has become stronger but not considerably, not as much as you think he has.... what Oden said about "no one being able to defeat Kaido in their generation" means that Kaido was at the very least strong enough to defend himself against Admirals and Yonkos which means he was top tier back then and I'm not going to dismiss Oden's words because it goes against your subjective reality. This Idea of Kaido not being strong enough 20 years ago comes from Sengoku's comment about Big Mom and Kaido but people forget that he was talking about Rocks' time and not about 20 years ago. Why do people forget that Whitbeard reached his prime at age of 38? I mean Shanks is Yonko at age of 39 and he became Yonko 6 years ago, so he became Yonko at age of 33, Blackbeard is a Yonko at age of 40, Aokiji is now 49 years Old and he became Admiral around decade ago, so he became Admiral at age of 39, Luffy will become Yonko at age of 20 and he will be the Pirate King at age of 25+ and you're telling me that Kaido was much weaker back 20 years ago then he is now? Like come on man, this is beyond ridiculous.
The evidence of Oden and Kaido being the strongest.
We know that Kaido has fought against Rocks' crew members numerous times, we know that Roger and Garp clashed at least for few seconds with Kaido, we Know that Kaido has challenged both Marians and Yonkos but the only one who was able to scar Kaido was Oden, and he did it casually as if it was a regular thecnique and if you think that it was only back when Kaido was just an apprentice in Rocks' crew, then look at this.
Big Mom and Kaido had all out fight for 24 hours and no one was damaged nether to say scared (big feats for Big Mom), Shanks and Kaido had clash with each other with same result, and look at Kaido's scar... it's Big, like really big. It's the biggest scar in one piece it's even bigger than Oden who is around 4 meters tall, Oden's AP is fu:k:d up.
So, now look what nnarrator said about both Kaido and Oden's strength.
Keep in mind that Kaido was called WSC after Oden's death, I'd say Oden was the strongest on the land and after Kaido killed him he became the WSC. It's no wander that Kaido was scared of Oden since he had the power to kill him, keep in mind that back then Kaido wasn't suicidal and he became the one after Oden's death, could that be that Oden was the only one who could possibly kill Kaido and now the world is boring whiteout the only one who could kill Kaido?
And here Oden confirms what I said. Oden puts himself above Whitbeard cuz Whitbeard is still alive and healthy, and I'm not going to consider that Oden was mentally ill hence Oden>Whitbread=Roger just like Kaido>Whitbeard=Roger Oden suggests that amongst all people on the planet he's the only one who has the chance to kill Kaido and if he can't then nobody can't, which means Kaido was and is stronger than Roger and Whitbeard. If It was just one factor/evidence then I wouldn't pay attention but there's to much for me to dismiss it.
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- Update after chapter 1009&1010
And I said to them, I quote: We've never seen Yonkos using haki, so we can't say that Whitbeard and Roger's haki was stronger than theirs etc.
And as we can see, I ended up being right...
We found out that Kaido has the same
level of haki as Roger and Whitbeard,
but we also got an answer to another question/complaint from people. Some of you were saying that: Oden can't possibly be on the same level as Whitbeard and Roger because he was pushed around by Roger's attack, while I was saying that Oden became stronger during his journey with Roger.
And unlike your words, mine were backed up by the manga, but the main problem was that Oden spent with Roger only one year, and some of you were saying that it wasn't enough for Oden to grow stronger.
And here we can see Luffy figuring out how to use advanced CoC after getting hit by Kaido with CoC attack. Luffy managed to figure it out in just few days, do you really think that Oden wouldn't be able to do the same after being hit by Roger's CoC attack!? And unlike Luffy Oden had one year to learn it while being surrounded by multiple CoC haki users. Do you really think that Oden, who had interest in everything wouldn't ask Roger and Whitbeard about their haki, especially after being surprised by the fact that their weapons weren't even touching!? Of course he would, and Roger probably thought him how use advanced CoC.
Both Luffy and Oden clearly used combination of advanced CoA and CoC to significantly damage Kaido. There is/was a reason of why Kaido was so scared of Oden, he was shiting his pants just by seeing him.
Kaido even compares Luffy to those few who had/have advanced CoC and CoA. So, yet again, both Kaido and Oden were at the very least equal to Roger and Whitbeard.
Even Whitbeard acknowledged Oden's strength... it's not just Oden who said "if I can't take down Kaido then nobody from our generation will" it's also Whitbeard who also acknowledged the same thing, Whitbeard himself refused to go and fight against Kaido.
- Update in Jan 19 2022 after 1037
New information + the old ones that I missed previously.
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