Powers & Abilities Oden and Kaido surpassed Whitbeard and Roger | full analysis
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you don’t need to beat yonko to become pk
Roger already one shot the fuck out of Oden and Whitebeard was clashing equal with Roger so no. And I doubt current Kaido let alone flashback Kaido is close to Roger and Whitebeard level lol
But good thread though :cheers:
Roger didn’t one shot oden why do people keep saying that? Was I in drug induced stupor when I read that chapter? Why do people keep saying that. And that was a significantly weaker version than the one that fought kaido by the way. Manga fact.
I do believe kaido rn is close to primebeard/roger, why not?
I mean bm back then was imo close to roger too as he preferred to avoid fighting her.
In fact any admiral/yonko right now is close to that lvl.
Roger never beat a single top tier ever. He considers admirals a threat. Roger wasn’t in a different tier from other top tiers, just at the top of it.
In the ace novel, new world pirates were favouring kaido actually over the whitebeard before meeting ace.
All those things are referring to the past, you do know that right?
Lola was still in wci, l moriah came to the Florian triangle 10 years ago. So it was more than 10 years ago.
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Roger already one shot the fuck out of Oden and Whitebeard was clashing equal with Roger so no. And I doubt current Kaido let alone flashback Kaido is close to Roger and Whitebeard level lol
But good thread though :cheers:
I do believe kaido rn is close to primebeard/roger, why not?
I mean bm back then was imo close to roger too as he preferred to avoid fighting her.
In fact any admiral/yonko right now is close to that lvl.
Roger never beat a single top tier ever. He considers admirals a threat. Roger wasn’t in a different tier from other top tiers, just at the top of it.
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In the ace novel, new world pirates were favouring kaido actually over the whitebeard before meeting ace.
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No,they aren't.
If Kaidou had indeed surpassed WB we wouldn't have all these statements.
If he was above all the current active players he would be be defacto the strongest and would be recognized as such after WB death with no ifs and buts. Instead he is just called often the WSC, he hasn't gotten an absolute title ,showing how nonexistent his gap is with the rest and it is shown in his skirmish with BM.
Imagine 20 years in the past now.....If he hadn't reach his peak that is today....
There is nothing to say about Oden. He was squashed like a bug by Roger who didn't want to harm his,as his goal was to recruit Oden and was in Awe,just from seeing ROger and WB clashing. There is nothing showcasing that he surpassed them...
BTW not getting a permanent scar doesn't mean,nobody harmed Kaidou.
If Kaidou had indeed surpassed WB we wouldn't have all these statements.
If he was above all the current active players he would be be defacto the strongest and would be recognized as such after WB death with no ifs and buts. Instead he is just called often the WSC, he hasn't gotten an absolute title ,showing how nonexistent his gap is with the rest and it is shown in his skirmish with BM.
Imagine 20 years in the past now.....If he hadn't reach his peak that is today....
There is nothing to say about Oden. He was squashed like a bug by Roger who didn't want to harm his,as his goal was to recruit Oden and was in Awe,just from seeing ROger and WB clashing. There is nothing showcasing that he surpassed them...
BTW not getting a permanent scar doesn't mean,nobody harmed Kaidou.
Lola was still in wci, l moriah came to the Florian triangle 10 years ago. So it was more than 10 years ago.
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Seems like he did just leg day for the next 20 years tho 👀
I think you need to reread the chapter bb, he had a bloody lip and was running back towards Roger not away from.
When were these two out above oden?
Except oden stayed he was at his peak in his letter to toki.
and why can’t kaido exactly? Or shanks or bm or mihawk
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I mean Oden was bloody after one hit from Roger and he's actually running away from Roger.Kaido is strong right now but he's not on the same level as Roger and Primebeard let alone surpassing them. However, I could see Kaido push Roger and Primebeard to high diff fight though:cheers:
Kaido is strong right now but he's not on the same level as Roger and Primebeard let alone surpassing them. However, I could see Kaido push Roger and Primebeard to high diff fight though:cheers:
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When were these two out above oden?
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Except oden stayed he was at his peak in his letter to toki.
and why can’t kaido exactly? Or shanks or bm or mihawk
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The big problem with this kind of analysis is that they tend to forget that Oda is, at the end of the day, a storyteller first and foremost.
I personally try to make a distinction between contextualized and "big picture" portrayal, if we gave them a name. Things like Oden saying that noone in that Era will be able to stop Kaido, or that Kaido is the strongest creature among all, Oden having no enemy of his caliber... are just hyperbolic statements to seek a portrayal need required by their specific, yet "small picture" context. Oda is telling an epic tale and the best way to achieve so is by exaggerating certain stuff that will become completely irrelevant as the story goes on and jumps to a different context.
This difference is perfectly noticed when we look at Kaido with perspective. Sure, he's said to be the world's strongest creature, an invincible individual, and so on, but odds are he will go down this very arc and, in the big picture of the plot, he's completely linked to Linlin and nothing points to him needing to be stronger than his actual importance in the story, which so far seems to be the same as hers. Oden's case is even worse because he's a dead man tied to a Wano from decades ago.
Roger and Whitebeard, on the contrary, have a strong big picture portrayal. King of the Pirates and World's Strongest Man, who was said to be the only one to match him in combat. Roger started the great age of piracy and Newgate did so when he reaffirmed the king's words before dying. Both had the highest bounties ever for any pirate, the only to reach the 5b mark, Whitebeard became the de facto ruler of the sea and was put apart from the emperors by Linlin, and their on panel performance during their prime explicitly put them above Oden himself, who was amazed by Whitebeard's strength, was sent flying by a Roger who seemed anything but serious and lost his mind at the sight of their blades not even touching. Their greatness simply surpass their protagonic plot.
I think there are certain axioms in how we should interpret the story; Roger and Whitebeard being the strongest pirates to have ever existed until Luffy and Blackbeard (probably) surpass their legend is one of them. Oda has no reason to put two nobodies (from a big picture perspective) above them, it just doesn't make sense at all. Kaido and Oden simply aren't important enough to take the spot of the kings of piracy.
I personally try to make a distinction between contextualized and "big picture" portrayal, if we gave them a name. Things like Oden saying that noone in that Era will be able to stop Kaido, or that Kaido is the strongest creature among all, Oden having no enemy of his caliber... are just hyperbolic statements to seek a portrayal need required by their specific, yet "small picture" context. Oda is telling an epic tale and the best way to achieve so is by exaggerating certain stuff that will become completely irrelevant as the story goes on and jumps to a different context.
This difference is perfectly noticed when we look at Kaido with perspective. Sure, he's said to be the world's strongest creature, an invincible individual, and so on, but odds are he will go down this very arc and, in the big picture of the plot, he's completely linked to Linlin and nothing points to him needing to be stronger than his actual importance in the story, which so far seems to be the same as hers. Oden's case is even worse because he's a dead man tied to a Wano from decades ago.
Roger and Whitebeard, on the contrary, have a strong big picture portrayal. King of the Pirates and World's Strongest Man, who was said to be the only one to match him in combat. Roger started the great age of piracy and Newgate did so when he reaffirmed the king's words before dying. Both had the highest bounties ever for any pirate, the only to reach the 5b mark, Whitebeard became the de facto ruler of the sea and was put apart from the emperors by Linlin, and their on panel performance during their prime explicitly put them above Oden himself, who was amazed by Whitebeard's strength, was sent flying by a Roger who seemed anything but serious and lost his mind at the sight of their blades not even touching. Their greatness simply surpass their protagonic plot.
I think there are certain axioms in how we should interpret the story; Roger and Whitebeard being the strongest pirates to have ever existed until Luffy and Blackbeard (probably) surpass their legend is one of them. Oda has no reason to put two nobodies (from a big picture perspective) above them, it just doesn't make sense at all. Kaido and Oden simply aren't important enough to take the spot of the kings of piracy.
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Roger already one shot the fuck out of Oden and Whitebeard was clashing equal with Roger so no. And I doubt current Kaido let alone flashback Kaido is close to Roger and Whitebeard level lol
But good thread though :cheers:
Maybe Oden was stronger than Base Whitebeard but Whitebeard was never shown to use his Gura
On top we know that Roger was quickly dispatching of Oden and never it was suggested differently
So my thread about Kaido was received better than I thought it would, so now you are ready to a very harsh truth, it pains me to say it but all the evidence points at one direction which is that "Oden and Kaido surpassed Whitbeard and Roger in terms of strength" and I now it's bad, it's really bad but Oda wats a Samurai be the strongest and I can't do anything but to accept the truth, I hope I'm wrong but it's just hope with zero evidence.
Let's recap what I said about Oden vs Rayleigh thread.
My conclusion was based on the evidence from manga, that showed that Oden never fought against Rayleigh but only against Roger. Back then Oden was weaker and has become stronger while traveling with Roger and Whitbeard for around decade (look how powerful Luffy has become with 2 years of training and Oden had from 5 to 10 years of experience from Roger and Whitbeard) so he came back to Wano much stronger than he left Wano.
In my thread about Kaido people were telling me that Kaido now is much stronger than ha was 20 years ago, so here is what I responded to the same thing in deferent thread.
Yes, Kaido has become stronger since then and I agree with you guys 100%, but the gap between Kaido 20 years ago and now is so small that it's almost irrelevant.
The evidence of Oden and Kaido being the strongest.
We know that Kaido has fought against Rocks' crew members numerous times, we know that Roger and Garp clashed at least for few seconds with Kaido, we Know that Kaido has challenged both Marians and Yonkos but the only one who was able to scar Kaido was Oden, and he did it casually as if it was a regular thecnique and if you think that it was only back when Kaido was just an apprentice in Rocks' crew, then look at this.
Big Mom and Kaido had all out fight for 24 hours and no one was damaged nether to say scared (big feats for Big Mom), Shanks and Kaido had clash with each other with same result, and look at Kaido's scar... it's Big, like really big. It's the biggest scar in one piece it's even bigger than Oden who is around 4 meters tall, Oden's AP is fu:k:d up.
So, now look what nnarrator said about both Kaido and Oden's strength.
Keep in mind that Kaido was called WSC after Oden's death, I'd say Oden was the strongest on the land and after Kaido killed him he became the WSC. It's no wander that Kaido was scared of Oden since he had the power to kill him, keep in mind that back then Kaido wasn't suicidal and he became the one after Oden's death, could that be that Oden was the only one who could possibly kill Kaido and now the world is boring whiteout the only one who could kill Kaido?
And here Oden confirms what I said. Oden puts himself above Whitbeard cuz Whitbeard is still alive and healthy, and I'm not going to consider that Oden was mentally ill hence Oden>Whitbread=Roger just like Kaido>Whitbeard=Roger Oden suggests that amongst all people on the planet he's the only one who has the chance to kill Kaido and if he can't then nobody can't, which means Kaido was and is stronger than Roger and Whitbeard. If It was just one factor/evidence then I wouldn't pay attention but there's to much for me to dismiss it.
Let's recap what I said about Oden vs Rayleigh thread.
By the way, if things come to a debate I wanna repost my old post as a factor, feel free to use it.
Guys I don't care who do you think will win in Rayleigh vs Katakuri fight, but stop comparing him to Oden, Oden is on different tier compared to Rayleigh.
Oden's backstory was similar to Big Mom's backstory (Oda is giving Oden a top tier potential like Big Mom) the guy was using Enma at age of 4.
Whitebeard stopped his crew members from fighting against Oden and told them to hide behind him.
Whitbeard knew that there's no one in his crew that could fight against Oden and even compares Oden to his previous crew members likes of Big Mom, Kaido, Shiki etc.
Roger like Whitbeard didn't let his crew members to fight against Oden (even though he was little bid late since Oden already defeated some of them) it was represented in comedic way, but that doesn't change the fact that both Roger and Whitbeard faced Oden by themselves, and even Rayleigh and Copper teamed up against Oden. Roger wouldn't be interested in Oden if Oden was on Rayleigh's level, he wanted to test him since Oden was somewhat compared to him, he wasn't on Roger's level but he was on the same tier.
In Roger pirates vs Whitbeard pirates panel we can't see Oden since Oden is fighting with Roger, Knowing Oden he wouldn't be interested in Rayleigh and would try to test his strength in against the strongest.
In this panel Oda compares Oden, Whitbread and Roger to Ace, Sabo and Luffy and guess what...
Against whom did Luffy and Sabo fight to test their strength? Yeah, against Ace Roger's son, Sabo was almost equal to Ace and and even defeated him multiple times while Luffy was always defeated by Ace and same dynamic is here.
I'm pretty sure Oden fought only against Roger and was always defeated like Luffy while Whitbeard was almost equal to Roger like Sabo to Ace, and even their wounds are on the same place the parallel is clear.
Oden scarred Kaido, that is feat that even Whitbeard and Roger couldn't achieve, and we Know that Whitbeard fought against Kaido.
Oda again comperes Oden to likes of Whitbeard and Roger (Oden himself says that if he can't defeat Kaido then nobody can) which means that Oden was at the very least equal to Whitbeard.
Stop comparing Oden to Rayleigh and this is saying you someone who hates Oden the most, I hate that character for ruining for me Wano arc, I hate his stupidity, I hate his designe and ugly face but I can accept the simple truth even though that Rayleigh is my top three characters. What Rayleigh did in Sabaody was the same what Marco did in mareanford, Rayleigh stopped Kizaru's attack in the same way how Marco stopped Kizaru's attack and fought back, keep it real and stop the BS.
Guys I don't care who do you think will win in Rayleigh vs Katakuri fight, but stop comparing him to Oden, Oden is on different tier compared to Rayleigh.
Oden's backstory was similar to Big Mom's backstory (Oda is giving Oden a top tier potential like Big Mom) the guy was using Enma at age of 4.
Whitebeard stopped his crew members from fighting against Oden and told them to hide behind him.
Whitbeard knew that there's no one in his crew that could fight against Oden and even compares Oden to his previous crew members likes of Big Mom, Kaido, Shiki etc.
Roger like Whitbeard didn't let his crew members to fight against Oden (even though he was little bid late since Oden already defeated some of them) it was represented in comedic way, but that doesn't change the fact that both Roger and Whitbeard faced Oden by themselves, and even Rayleigh and Copper teamed up against Oden. Roger wouldn't be interested in Oden if Oden was on Rayleigh's level, he wanted to test him since Oden was somewhat compared to him, he wasn't on Roger's level but he was on the same tier.
In Roger pirates vs Whitbeard pirates panel we can't see Oden since Oden is fighting with Roger, Knowing Oden he wouldn't be interested in Rayleigh and would try to test his strength in against the strongest.
In this panel Oda compares Oden, Whitbread and Roger to Ace, Sabo and Luffy and guess what...
Against whom did Luffy and Sabo fight to test their strength? Yeah, against Ace Roger's son, Sabo was almost equal to Ace and and even defeated him multiple times while Luffy was always defeated by Ace and same dynamic is here.
I'm pretty sure Oden fought only against Roger and was always defeated like Luffy while Whitbeard was almost equal to Roger like Sabo to Ace, and even their wounds are on the same place the parallel is clear.
Oden scarred Kaido, that is feat that even Whitbeard and Roger couldn't achieve, and we Know that Whitbeard fought against Kaido.
Oda again comperes Oden to likes of Whitbeard and Roger (Oden himself says that if he can't defeat Kaido then nobody can) which means that Oden was at the very least equal to Whitbeard.
Stop comparing Oden to Rayleigh and this is saying you someone who hates Oden the most, I hate that character for ruining for me Wano arc, I hate his stupidity, I hate his designe and ugly face but I can accept the simple truth even though that Rayleigh is my top three characters. What Rayleigh did in Sabaody was the same what Marco did in mareanford, Rayleigh stopped Kizaru's attack in the same way how Marco stopped Kizaru's attack and fought back, keep it real and stop the BS.
In my thread about Kaido people were telling me that Kaido now is much stronger than ha was 20 years ago, so here is what I responded to the same thing in deferent thread.
He indeed has become stronger but not considerably, not as much as you think he has.... what Oden said about "no one being able to defeat Kaido in their generation" means that Kaido was at the very least strong enough to defend himself against Admirals and Yonkos which means he was top tier back then and I'm not going to dismiss Oden's words because it goes against your subjective reality. This Idea of Kaido not being strong enough 20 years ago comes from Sengoku's comment about Big Mom and Kaido but people forget that he was talking about Rocks' time and not about 20 years ago. Why do people forget that Whitbeard reached his prime at age of 38? I mean Shanks is Yonko at age of 39 and he became Yonko 6 years ago, so he became Yonko at age of 33, Blackbeard is a Yonko at age of 40, Aokiji is now 49 years Old and he became Admiral around decade ago, so he became Admiral at age of 39, Luffy will become Yonko at age of 20 and he will be the Pirate King at age of 25+ and you're telling me that Kaido was much weaker back 20 years ago then he is now? Like come on man, this is beyond ridiculous.
The evidence of Oden and Kaido being the strongest.
We know that Kaido has fought against Rocks' crew members numerous times, we know that Roger and Garp clashed at least for few seconds with Kaido, we Know that Kaido has challenged both Marians and Yonkos but the only one who was able to scar Kaido was Oden, and he did it casually as if it was a regular thecnique and if you think that it was only back when Kaido was just an apprentice in Rocks' crew, then look at this.
Big Mom and Kaido had all out fight for 24 hours and no one was damaged nether to say scared (big feats for Big Mom), Shanks and Kaido had clash with each other with same result, and look at Kaido's scar... it's Big, like really big. It's the biggest scar in one piece it's even bigger than Oden who is around 4 meters tall, Oden's AP is fu:k:d up.
So, now look what nnarrator said about both Kaido and Oden's strength.
Keep in mind that Kaido was called WSC after Oden's death, I'd say Oden was the strongest on the land and after Kaido killed him he became the WSC. It's no wander that Kaido was scared of Oden since he had the power to kill him, keep in mind that back then Kaido wasn't suicidal and he became the one after Oden's death, could that be that Oden was the only one who could possibly kill Kaido and now the world is boring whiteout the only one who could kill Kaido?
And here Oden confirms what I said. Oden puts himself above Whitbeard cuz Whitbeard is still alive and healthy, and I'm not going to consider that Oden was mentally ill hence Oden>Whitbread=Roger just like Kaido>Whitbeard=Roger Oden suggests that amongst all people on the planet he's the only one who has the chance to kill Kaido and if he can't then nobody can't, which means Kaido was and is stronger than Roger and Whitbeard. If It was just one factor/evidence then I wouldn't pay attention but there's to much for me to dismiss it.
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Roger could swap him away and used advanced Haki against Wb
now for getting stronger Oden got stronger from his departure ans coming back dont you think the others also progressed the same one year before the end of his journey he was suprised about the advanced haki Roger and WB so he was still far behind WB and Roger
The same Oden got prob slightly stronger and hurt Kaido 20 years ago it means Kaido wasnt yonko level back then its plausible he calls Linlin and WB old
so in the last 20 years Kaido grow immensely to the point he become equal to Linlin and WB
Yes Kaido is prob stronger now and Oden isnt
I multiple said that Oden has become stronger while traveling with Roger and manga confirms that, but people still bring this up
Well, that's the problem, if Oda can't write the story whiteout lying, exaggerating and sacrificing characters for cheap hype, then what kind of writer he is? What we should trust and accept as the truth or should we read the story knowing that everything is lie? Is Oda even a good writer?
Well, that's the problem, if Oda can't write the story whiteout lying, exaggerating and sacrificing characters for cheap hype, then what kind of writer he is? What we should trust and accept as the truth or should we read the story knowing that everything is lie? Is Oda even a good writer?
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Honestly I would love Oden to be the strongest ever... but I don’t know chief...
Maybe you could argue Prime Oden was roughly equal to Roger and WB, looking back at that panel he didn’t really take all that much damage from Roger’s attack at all. I guess you might be able to argue he could fight them to draw.
Kaido.... I don’t know chief... the ace novel was referring to Old WB.
Maybe you could argue Prime Oden was roughly equal to Roger and WB, looking back at that panel he didn’t really take all that much damage from Roger’s attack at all. I guess you might be able to argue he could fight them to draw.
Kaido.... I don’t know chief... the ace novel was referring to Old WB.
Roger already one shot the fuck out of Oden and Whitebeard was clashing equal with Roger so no. And I doubt current Kaido let alone flashback Kaido is close to Roger and Whitebeard level lol
But good thread though :cheers:
Not really sure how you came to that conclusion when the story literally states otherwise.
Oden was shown to clash equally with WB and then during his journey with the WB pirates, in his journal he put emphasis on WB's strength saying he didn't know strength like that even existed and even in that scene with WB telling everyone to stay back with Oden ducking out of the way is potrayal in favour of WB
Then we have Roger completely out classing Oden and then leaving the later completely bewildered at his clash with WB. To the point where he couldn't even believe what was happening in front of his eyes. This was one year before Roger found one piece and then died IIRC.
Yh Oden did get much stronger after his voyage with those two monsters, that is a given, but he is not above either not even close imo. Oden is one ting but Kaidou 20 years ago!? ^^". That man woulda gotten washed by Prime Roger or Prime WB, if he's struggling to even overcome Oden who is not even in their league.
Oden was shown to clash equally with WB and then during his journey with the WB pirates, in his journal he put emphasis on WB's strength saying he didn't know strength like that even existed and even in that scene with WB telling everyone to stay back with Oden ducking out of the way is potrayal in favour of WB
Then we have Roger completely out classing Oden and then leaving the later completely bewildered at his clash with WB. To the point where he couldn't even believe what was happening in front of his eyes. This was one year before Roger found one piece and then died IIRC.
Yh Oden did get much stronger after his voyage with those two monsters, that is a given, but he is not above either not even close imo. Oden is one ting but Kaidou 20 years ago!? ^^". That man woulda gotten washed by Prime Roger or Prime WB, if he's struggling to even overcome Oden who is not even in their league.
But Kaido oneshoted much stronger version of Oden.
Roger couldn't scar Kaido, nobody could but Oden did, he gave Kaido the biggest scar in one piece and did it casually as it was nathing.
So think about it again.
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I mean Oden was bloody after one hit from Roger and he's actually running away from Roger.Kaido is strong right now but he's not on the same level as Roger and Primebeard let alone surpassing them. However, I could see Kaido push Roger and Primebeard to high diff fight though:cheers:
Kaido is strong right now but he's not on the same level as Roger and Primebeard let alone surpassing them. However, I could see Kaido push Roger and Primebeard to high diff fight though:cheers:
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If you're fine with Oden being the strongest and on top of that you actually want that to be true, the I gatto say this to you for your own sake... you have a problem.
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Firstly is roger>=wb. You are talking about the same oden that got bitch slapped by roger and was running scared and terrified about the clash of wb and roger ? And the same kaido that got pushed from that oden ? How taht even works ???!!
as your previous thread that yiu where shifting in kaido I’ll tell you the same thing state yiur facts correctly don’t take just what makes yiur thread more believable oden told him to get stronger so by yiur logic since oden said no one can beat him that mean he should be pirate king already and not collecting L’s left and right.
And stop making controversial threads You contradicting yourself at this point you just do troll threads
as your previous thread that yiu where shifting in kaido I’ll tell you the same thing state yiur facts correctly don’t take just what makes yiur thread more believable oden told him to get stronger so by yiur logic since oden said no one can beat him that mean he should be pirate king already and not collecting L’s left and right.
And stop making controversial threads You contradicting yourself at this point you just do troll threads
