Powers & Abilities Oden and Kaido surpassed Whitbeard and Roger | full analysis

[Master OF Haki]

Firstly is roger>=wb. You are talking about the same oden that got bitch slapped by roger and was running scared and terrified about the clash of wb and roger ? And the same kaido that got pushed from that oden ? How taht even works ???!!

Wow, so much wrong.

1. Ok, Whitbeard and Roger are equal in strength that has been said multiple times.
2. It was weaker version of Oden who got send flying but Roger couldn't oneshot him cuz Oden was still strong, but Kaido oneshoted stronger version of Oden.
Oden was indeed surprised seeing powerful haki, what's wrong with that?
3. Show me where he was running scared from Roger? He was running towards him to continue th fight.

as your previous thread that yiu where shifting in kaido I’ll tell you the same thing state yiur facts correctly don’t take just what makes yiur thread more believable oden told him to get stronger so by yiur logic since oden said no one can beat him that mean he should be pirate king already and not collecting L’s left and right.

Kaido back then wasn't as strong as Roger and Whitbeard but he was Yonko level, Oden back then was on Whitbeard's level mabe little bit stronger, Kaido became surpassed Whitbeard after Oden's death.

And stop making controversial threads You contradicting yourself at this point you just do troll threads

Don't read it if you don't like it.

Post automatically merged: Jul 10, 2020

I wont argue this joke.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Can Roger and Whitbeard scar Kaido? Not, damage, everybody with advanced COA can damage Kaido, but give him scar? Or anybody else? We know that Kaido has challenged Marians and Yonkos multiple times in the past, so...

Of course they could. Roger never fought Kaido though, as Kaido was just an apprentice during Roger's era. The dude was a teenager during the battle of God's Valley, and didn't start his official Pirate career until after Roger died. As far as Whitebeard is concerned, his Bisento is just a secondary weapon to him. His primary source of power comes from the Gura Gura no Mi. Blunt force damage doesn't leave scars. But if Whitebeard got a clean slash off with a Haki imbued bisento, it would damn sure leave a scar on Kaido. Kaido isn't so stupid as to fight someone like Whitebeard in his Dragon form though, and leave himself a massive target.

 

[Seth]

Sorry, but I can't accept it.
For me Primebeard and Roger > Current Yonko.

 

[kom5]

Roger couldn't even oneshot weaker version of Oden in the past and he was perfectly fine after that

But Kaido oneshoted much stronger version of Oden.

Roger couldn't scar Kaido, nobody could but Oden did, he gave Kaido the biggest scar in one piece and did it casually as it was nathing.

So think about it again.

Post automatically merged: Jul 10, 2020

Show me in which panel Oden was running form Roger?

Post automatically merged: Jul 10, 2020

If you're fine with Oden being the strongest and on top of that you actually want that to be true, the I gatto say this to you for your own sake... you have a problem.

ehm Roger didnt use adv haki plus Oden was already nearly at his strongest it was one year before his final year so till that point he already grew immensely he started 30 years ago and this was at his 26 years ago means 4 year after his progress Odens grow didnt even made Roger use adv Haki

 

[Master OF Haki]

Of course they could. Roger never fought Kaido though, as Kaido was just an apprentice during Roger's era. The dude was a teenager during the battle of God's Valley, and didn't start his official Pirate career until after Roger died. As far as Whitebeard is concerned, his Bisento is just a secondary weapon to him. His primary source of power comes from the Gura Gura no Mi. Blunt force damage doesn't leave scars. But if Whitebeard got a clean slash off with a Haki imbued bisento, it would damn sure leave a scar on Kaido.

Whitbeard has fought against Kaido and that's a fact cuz Kaido challenged Yonko, no matter what you use, if you're AP is strong enough to destroy Kaido's scales (not bypass with advanced COA) then you should live a scar, I mean Luffy left a scar on Bellamy with regular punch. Shanks who has sword also fight against Kaido and couldn't scare him. But I would never make this thread if it was only because of scar, there are so many instances that Oda represents Oden and Kaido as the strongest and I'm not going to reapet myself since I represented them in the thread.

Post automatically merged: Jul 10, 2020

Sorry, but I can't accept it.
For me Primebeard and Roger > Current Yonko.

Good choice.

 

[Eustass]

Nah

Not even close.

 

[Master OF Haki]

ehm Roger didnt use adv haki plus Oden was already nearly at his strongest it was one year before his final year so till that point he already grew immensely he started 30 years ago and this was at his 26 years ago means 4 year after his progress Odens grow didnt even made Roger use adv Haki

Luffy needed only two years to jump this high, and maybe you're right, and hope you're right because I hate Oden, but I'm the kind of man who makes a fair conclusion after viewing all factors and unfortunately the majority of them are pointing into this direction. But still, maybe Oda has fallen so low that he made so many false statements for cheap hype and Oden was only YC level, who knows.

 

[RyumaZoro]

Wow, so much wrong.

1. Ok, Whitbeard and Roger are equal in strength that has been said multiple times.
2. It was weaker version of Oden who got send flying but Roger couldn't oneshot him cuz Oden was still strong, but Kaido oneshoted stronger version of Oden.
Oden was indeed surprised seeing powerful haki, what's wrong with that?
3. Show me where he was running scared from Roger? He was running towards him to continue th fight.



Kaido back then wasn't as strong as Roger and Whitbeard but he was Yonko level, Oden back then was on Whitbeard's level mabe little bit stronger, Kaido became surpassed Whitbeard after Oden's death.


Don't read it if you don't like it.

Post automatically merged: Jul 10, 2020

Everything you say is wrong why kaido isn’t put on the same pedestal as roger and wb then? Why not a single top tier isn’t afraid of him ? Why no one gives a fuck about him ? Big mom that know him really well Didn’t put him on same pedestal as wb in present time so you already you are wrong abou that .

man was same lvl as Whitebeard ? Primebeard??? Oden with One distraction and he got 1 shot Old beard with heart attacks weaker and sneak attacks And was keep going So show me where exactly any of those 2 are close to that ?

 

[Master OF Haki]

Everything you say is wrong why kaido isn’t put on the same pedestal as roger and wb then? Why not a single top tier isn’t afraid of him ? Why no one gives a fuck about him ? Big mom that know him really well Didn’t put him on same pedestal as wb in present time so you already you are wrong abou that .

man was same lvl as Whitebeard ? Primebeard??? Oden with One distraction and he got 1 shot Old beard with heart attacks weaker and sneak attacks And was keep going So show me where exactly any of those 2 are close to that ?

I already said that most of those claims were about military strength, Big Mom herself needed military strength to defeat other Yonkos military strength etc. I've examined this more than you did, and I hope you're so chill man.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Whitbeard has fought against Kaido and that's a fact cuz Kaido challenged Yonko, no matter what you use, if you're AP is strong enough to destroy Kaido's scales (not bypass with advanced COA) then you should live a scar, I mean Luffy left a scar on Bellamy with regular punch. Shanks who has sword also fight against Kaido and couldn't scare him. But I would never make this thread if it was only because of scar, there are so many instances that Oda represents Oden and Kaido as the strongest and I'm not going to reapet myself since I represented them in the thread.

Post automatically merged: Jul 10, 2020

Good choice.

Bellamy doesn't have Dragon scales for skin due to a mythical devil fruit. It is much harder to scar someone like that with blunt force, over using a bladed weapon. Doflamingo got demolished with a King Kong Gun, which folded a town in half, and there were no scars left there.

And your instances prove nothing. Kaido of 20 years ago is weaker than the Kaido of today. Roger, who wasn't even the Pirate King yet easily broke through Oden's guard and sent him packing.

We've seen true Top Tiers clash, and when they do, they split the skies in half and change the Weather. It happened with Roger and Whitebeard, Whitebeard and Shanks, and Big Mom and Kaido. Did that happen when Oden and Kaido fought? Nope.

We saw Aokiji and Akainu completely destroy Punk Hazard. Garp, Sengoku and Shiki almost destroyed Marineford. It was stated that if Big Mom and Kaido continued fighting they would have destroyed Onigashima. When Kaido and Oden fought they managed to destroy Udon forest and that's it.

Nothing depicted in the fight between Kaido and Oden suggests it was a fight between two Top Tiers, let alone a fight between two men more powerful than Roger and Whitebeard.

 

[RyumaZoro]

I already said that most of those claims were about military strength, Big Mom herself needed military strength to defeat other Yonkos military strength etc. I've examined this more than you did, and I hope you're so chill man.

Since you don’t answer on oden part I’ll take it That you admitting you are wrong good, Since you don’t take big mom words then what about her actions she was matching kaido and she actually don’t give a crap about him or now you will put everyone above wb and roger ???

 

[Master OF Haki]

Bellamy doesn't have Dragon scales for skin due to a mythical devil fruit. It is much harder to scar someone like that with blunt force, over using a bladed weapon. Doflamingo got demolished with a King Kong Gun, which folded a town in half, and there were no scars left there.

And your instances prove nothing. Kaido of 20 years ago is weaker than the Kaido of today. Roger, who wasn't even the Pirate King yet easily broke through Oden's guard and sent him packing.

We've seen true Top Tiers clash, and when they do, they split the skies in half. It happened with Roger and Whitebeard, Whitebeard and Shanks, and Big Mom and Kaido. Did that happen when Oden and Kaido fought? Nope.

We saw Aokiji and Akainu completely destroy Punk Hazard. Garp, Sengoku and Shiki almost destroyed Marineford. It was stated that if Big Mom and Kaido continued fighting they would have destroyed Onigashima. When Kaido and Oden fought they managed to destroy Udon forest and that's it.

Nothing depicted in the fight between Kaido and Oden suggests it was a fight between two Top Tiers, let alone a fight between two men more powerful than Roger and Whitebeard.

Again man, I hope you're right and I'm wrong and to be honest I'm tired of arguing and saying the same thing that I said before, it's enough for me today.

Post automatically merged: Jul 10, 2020

Since you don’t answer on oden part I’ll take it That you admitting you are wrong good, Since you don’t take big mom words then what about her actions she was matching kaido and she actually don’t give a crap about him or now you will put everyone above wb and roger ???

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

I multiple said that Oden has become stronger while traveling with Roger and manga confirms that, but people still bring this up

If you mean what I think you mean, I'm pretty sure that was meant to be understood as that the Oden who came back to Wano was way stronger than the one who left with Whitebeard, which is what fits his character narrative the most. I don't think he had a great improvement during his time with Roger.

Well, that's the problem, if Oda can't write the story whiteout lying, exaggerating and sacrificing characters for cheap hype, then what kind of writer he is? What we should trust and accept as the truth or should we read the story knowing that everything is lie? Is Oda even a good writer?

Then we have tons of bad writers if hyperboles are a lie. We, as readers, have enough critical thinking to understand certain things. For example, we also had Zoro assuring there's nothing he can't cut yet this is obviously wrong (can't cut fire, to begin with), but such exaggeration made sense in the context of his words and the impact Oda wanted to achieve. As I said, the tale of Oden and Kaido is an epic one (well, it is meant to be, at least), so Oda just went for a classic tool for storytelling: make it sound greater than it actually is. But again, the moment you see the big picture it just makes no sense for Oden and Kaido to be stronger than Whitebeard and Roger, and the moment we compare those two pair of figures, their plot relevance, etc. I believe we get to determine what is hyperbole and what is legit portrayal.

Sauron from Lord of the Rings was addressed as the King of Kings and the Lord of the Earth yet his kingdom only reached, as far as I recall, the Middle-Earth. Would you call it bad writing because he actually wasn't the king of the whole world?

 

[Cherry Hilk]

Can Roger and Whitbeard scar Kaido? Not, damage, everybody with advanced COA can damage Kaido, but give him scar? Or anybody else? We know that Kaido has challenged Marians and Yonkos multiple times in the past, so...

The lord of the coast harmed Shanks more than Mihawk ever did or he will ever do.
Is he more powerful than Mihawk?
This mental gym is really pointless...

 

[LadyVados]

If Ryuma was significantly stronger than Oden could he be WB/Roger level or maybe even higher ?

 

[ShadyOjiro]

First being tagged is greatly appreciated.

Second nope sorry mate.

 

[kom5]

Luffy needed only two years to jump this high, and maybe you're right, and hope you're right because I hate Oden, but I'm the kind of man who makes a fair conclusion after viewing all factors and unfortunately the majority of them are pointing into this direction. But still, maybe Oda has fallen so low that he made so many false statements for cheap hype and Oden was only YC level, who knows.

No you dont take all factors if its count for Oden the same logic can be applied to all characters even if were going by your logic it would mean WB would develope the same way and will also grow stronger


Now by normal logic Luffys the MAIN CHARACTER he got developement apart from others thats SHOUNEN you forgot this important but simple factor next time consider more "factors" because just because you cant see a factor doesnt mean it doesnt exist

 

[comrade]

Roger/WB > Prime Kaido (Hybrid) > Oden

 

[Red Admiral]

So my thread about Kaido was received better than I thought it would, so now you are ready to a very harsh truth, it pains me to say it but all the evidence points at one direction which is that "Oden and Kaido surpassed Whitbeard and Roger in terms of strength" and I now it's bad, it's really bad but Oda wats a Samurai be the strongest and I can't do anything but to accept the truth, I hope I'm wrong but it's just hope with zero evidence.

Let's recap what I said about Oden vs Rayleigh thread.

Spoiler

By the way, if things come to a debate I wanna repost my old post as a factor, feel free to use it.

Guys I don't care who do you think will win in Rayleigh vs Katakuri fight, but stop comparing him to Oden, Oden is on different tier compared to Rayleigh.
Oden's backstory was similar to Big Mom's backstory (Oda is giving Oden a top tier potential like Big Mom) the guy was using Enma at age of 4.

Whitebeard stopped his crew members from fighting against Oden and told them to hide behind him.

Whitbeard knew that there's no one in his crew that could fight against Oden and even compares Oden to his previous crew members likes of Big Mom, Kaido, Shiki etc.

Roger like Whitbeard didn't let his crew members to fight against Oden (even though he was little bid late since Oden already defeated some of them) it was represented in comedic way, but that doesn't change the fact that both Roger and Whitbeard faced Oden by themselves, and even Rayleigh and Copper teamed up against Oden. Roger wouldn't be interested in Oden if Oden was on Rayleigh's level, he wanted to test him since Oden was somewhat compared to him, he wasn't on Roger's level but he was on the same tier.

In Roger pirates vs Whitbeard pirates panel we can't see Oden since Oden is fighting with Roger, Knowing Oden he wouldn't be interested in Rayleigh and would try to test his strength in against the strongest.

In this panel Oda compares Oden, Whitbread and Roger to Ace, Sabo and Luffy and guess what...
Against whom did Luffy and Sabo fight to test their strength? Yeah, against Ace Roger's son, Sabo was almost equal to Ace and and even defeated him multiple times while Luffy was always defeated by Ace and same dynamic is here.
I'm pretty sure Oden fought only against Roger and was always defeated like Luffy while Whitbeard was almost equal to Roger like Sabo to Ace, and even their wounds are on the same place the parallel is clear.

Oden scarred Kaido, that is feat that even Whitbeard and Roger couldn't achieve, and we Know that Whitbeard fought against Kaido.

Oda again comperes Oden to likes of Whitbeard and Roger (Oden himself says that if he can't defeat Kaido then nobody can) which means that Oden was at the very least equal to Whitbeard.

Stop comparing Oden to Rayleigh and this is saying you someone who hates Oden the most, I hate that character for ruining for me Wano arc, I hate his stupidity, I hate his designe and ugly face but I can accept the simple truth even though that Rayleigh is my top three characters. What Rayleigh did in Sabaody was the same what Marco did in mareanford, Rayleigh stopped Kizaru's attack in the same way how Marco stopped Kizaru's attack and fought back, keep it real and stop the BS.

My conclusion was based on the evidence from manga, that showed that Oden never fought against Rayleigh but only against Roger. Back then Oden was weaker and has become stronger while traveling with Roger and Whitbeard for around decade (look how powerful Luffy has become with 2 years of training and Oden had from 5 to 10 years of experience from Roger and Whitbeard) so he came back to Wano much stronger than he left Wano.

In my thread about Kaido people were telling me that Kaido now is much stronger than ha was 20 years ago, so here is what I responded to the same thing in deferent thread.

Spoiler

He indeed has become stronger but not considerably, not as much as you think he has.... what Oden said about "no one being able to defeat Kaido in their generation" means that Kaido was at the very least strong enough to defend himself against Admirals and Yonkos which means he was top tier back then and I'm not going to dismiss Oden's words because it goes against your subjective reality. This Idea of Kaido not being strong enough 20 years ago comes from Sengoku's comment about Big Mom and Kaido but people forget that he was talking about Rocks' time and not about 20 years ago. Why do people forget that Whitbeard reached his prime at age of 38? I mean Shanks is Yonko at age of 39 and he became Yonko 6 years ago, so he became Yonko at age of 33, Blackbeard is a Yonko at age of 40, Aokiji is now 49 years Old and he became Admiral around decade ago, so he became Admiral at age of 39, Luffy will become Yonko at age of 20 and he will be the Pirate King at age of 25+ and you're telling me that Kaido was much weaker back 20 years ago then he is now? Like come on man, this is beyond ridiculous.

Yes, Kaido has become stronger since then and I agree with you guys 100%, but the gap between Kaido 20 years ago and now is so small that it's almost irrelevant.

The evidence of Oden and Kaido being the strongest.

We know that Kaido has fought against Rocks' crew members numerous times, we know that Roger and Garp clashed at least for few seconds with Kaido, we Know that Kaido has challenged both Marians and Yonkos but the only one who was able to scar Kaido was Oden, and he did it casually as if it was a regular thecnique and if you think that it was only back when Kaido was just an apprentice in Rocks' crew, then look at this.

Big Mom and Kaido had all out fight for 24 hours and no one was damaged nether to say scared (big feats for Big Mom), Shanks and Kaido had clash with each other with same result, and look at Kaido's scar... it's Big, like really big. It's the biggest scar in one piece it's even bigger than Oden who is around 4 meters tall, Oden's AP is fu:k:d up.

So, now look what nnarrator said about both Kaido and Oden's strength.

Keep in mind that Kaido was called WSC after Oden's death, I'd say Oden was the strongest on the land and after Kaido killed him he became the WSC. It's no wander that Kaido was scared of Oden since he had the power to kill him, keep in mind that back then Kaido wasn't suicidal and he became the one after Oden's death, could that be that Oden was the only one who could possibly kill Kaido and now the world is boring whiteout the only one who could kill Kaido?

And here Oden confirms what I said. Oden puts himself above Whitbeard cuz Whitbeard is still alive and healthy, and I'm not going to consider that Oden was mentally ill hence Oden>Whitbread=Roger just like Kaido>Whitbeard=Roger Oden suggests that amongst all people on the planet he's the only one who has the chance to kill Kaido and if he can't then nobody can't, which means Kaido was and is stronger than Roger and Whitbeard. If It was just one factor/evidence then I wouldn't pay attention but there's to much for me to dismiss it.

Spoiler

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we might look back diffrently at this thread when we saw Kaido's full back story and see no other top tier mange to scar him

but again ... I think even Zoro should be able to give a scar to him somehow

so ...

 

[MarineHQ]

Roger/WB > Prime Kaido (Hybrid) > Oden

Yes, very accurate