Controversial General Political Discussion
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eh Europe had plenty of Left and Center governments. Problem rn is that Europe is dealing with immigration it sadly can't handle due to economic and social reasons.
I'll give you Croatia as an example, we started importing a lot of workers from south asia, they are working jobs way bellow our average wage, they are cranked into single flat and live with 15 people there is terrible conditions, legal work immigrants dont have any state monitor on them bcs they come bcs employer told em too.
They live in horrible conditions, dont assimilate into the society well bcs of language, culture and religion barrier, they work up to 12 hours a day for shitty wage they send back to their family in asia. They are basically exploited hard
This then corelates to Croatia having high case of their inner immigration, a lot of Croatians left Croatia bcs our jobs don't pay well, and instead of us fixing that so that we can get those who left back, our solution is to import cheap workforce to fill shitty job positions thus no salary has to be raised up.
That's the problem with legal immigration here, we just dont have any state engines to fix the situation and improve lives and we still continue to show middle finger to those who left.
As for illegal immigration.
Croatia is at the entrance of Europe, largest immigrant route is through Croatia. Croatia has obligation towards EU to protect its borders and as such we dont allow immigration in massive waves and we closely monitor our borders.
This gave birth to smugglers that come to Croatia and smuggle immigrants and there is SHITLOAD of those smugglers. For last 3 months we had series of accidents where up to 10 to 15 immigrants were harmed bcs smugglers tried to evade police. A number of our own policeman also got hurt, not mentioning civilians being put in danger too.
Our courts (where i work) are overflown with illegal immigrants and smugglers and it is causing massive drain of resources in judicial system and causing burnout.
Now you might tell me, well just let them in, thing is, most immigrants we deal with rn, destroyed their ID's, it is impossible to determine who they really are and if they are who they say they are. Those type we can't let it no matter what.
So to end it, reason why right wingers and now rise of far right is kinda good, is bcs it defers immigrants for overflowing countries that can't handle them in any capacity, legal or illegal.
Sad truth it, Europe, will all its advancements in economics, tech, culture, laws and so on is just unable to handle such huge number of immigrants, we as humanity just aint ready for that, and if this keeps going much more people will get hurt on either side.
I'll give you Croatia as an example, we started importing a lot of workers from south asia, they are working jobs way bellow our average wage, they are cranked into single flat and live with 15 people there is terrible conditions, legal work immigrants dont have any state monitor on them bcs they come bcs employer told em too.
They live in horrible conditions, dont assimilate into the society well bcs of language, culture and religion barrier, they work up to 12 hours a day for shitty wage they send back to their family in asia. They are basically exploited hard
This then corelates to Croatia having high case of their inner immigration, a lot of Croatians left Croatia bcs our jobs don't pay well, and instead of us fixing that so that we can get those who left back, our solution is to import cheap workforce to fill shitty job positions thus no salary has to be raised up.
That's the problem with legal immigration here, we just dont have any state engines to fix the situation and improve lives and we still continue to show middle finger to those who left.
As for illegal immigration.
Croatia is at the entrance of Europe, largest immigrant route is through Croatia. Croatia has obligation towards EU to protect its borders and as such we dont allow immigration in massive waves and we closely monitor our borders.
This gave birth to smugglers that come to Croatia and smuggle immigrants and there is SHITLOAD of those smugglers. For last 3 months we had series of accidents where up to 10 to 15 immigrants were harmed bcs smugglers tried to evade police. A number of our own policeman also got hurt, not mentioning civilians being put in danger too.
Our courts (where i work) are overflown with illegal immigrants and smugglers and it is causing massive drain of resources in judicial system and causing burnout.
Now you might tell me, well just let them in, thing is, most immigrants we deal with rn, destroyed their ID's, it is impossible to determine who they really are and if they are who they say they are. Those type we can't let it no matter what.
So to end it, reason why right wingers and now rise of far right is kinda good, is bcs it defers immigrants for overflowing countries that can't handle them in any capacity, legal or illegal.
Sad truth it, Europe, will all its advancements in economics, tech, culture, laws and so on is just unable to handle such huge number of immigrants, we as humanity just aint ready for that, and if this keeps going much more people will get hurt on either side.
As in "neoliberal left-wingers" ??? wtf
I obviously know close to nothing about Croatia. You might as pour some hard ignorance on me and I wouldn't blink.
But I feel like I already talked with you about this.
What do you mean "assimilate" ? Do you expect them to be like you ? It's only a socio-economical problem.
Aren't they destroying their IDs because they'd be seen as immigrants and not refugees ?
I mean, looks like the problem is the hierarchy between those two groups in terms of hospitality.
If you welcome people. They'll have no reason to destroy their IDs. Or at least their numbers will decrease.
duh, you should have posted that sentence at the top of your paragraph. Far-right is never "good".
This is such an amateur take in politics too. "at least authoritarian rulers are good because gringos will decrease"
You have to deal with immigration no matter what because it's happening and there is no other way around except violence and letting them drown into the sea like we already do.
Europe can handle this. But Europe can at best fine countries who don't respect the European Parliament, the Commission and all its institutions. But this is a silly thing to say now that the EU parliament has gone way too right-wing. Solutions in the future will suck ass.
I obviously know close to nothing about Croatia. You might as pour some hard ignorance on me and I wouldn't blink.
But I feel like I already talked with you about this.
What do you mean "assimilate" ? Do you expect them to be like you ? It's only a socio-economical problem.
Aren't they destroying their IDs because they'd be seen as immigrants and not refugees ?
I mean, looks like the problem is the hierarchy between those two groups in terms of hospitality.
If you welcome people. They'll have no reason to destroy their IDs. Or at least their numbers will decrease.
duh, you should have posted that sentence at the top of your paragraph. Far-right is never "good".
This is such an amateur take in politics too. "at least authoritarian rulers are good because gringos will decrease"
You have to deal with immigration no matter what because it's happening and there is no other way around except violence and letting them drown into the sea like we already do.
Europe can handle this. But Europe can at best fine countries who don't respect the European Parliament, the Commission and all its institutions. But this is a silly thing to say now that the EU parliament has gone way too right-wing. Solutions in the future will suck ass.
neoliberal is relatively new concept here, we have far left party that is doing reasonably well and even their candidate for EU parliament said Croatia needs better immigrants systems that what we have now
To be part of community rather than people who just appear on their job and go back to their 15 person flat. They almost never participate in any of our activities and when they do it tends to be off bcs they arent familiar with out culture and customs. There is lack of effort on their part to just be part of smth here.
Language is even worse subject. One of running jokes here is that you pray you dont get Wolt, UberEats, Glovo immigrant delivery man bcs you'll spend more time tryign to communicate than to actually get food.
Even if that is the case it is basically cheating and against the law, so them being denied access based on that is valid.
But in truth they destroy it bcs they dont wanna get traced and if you can't trace them you can't send them back bcs well, you don't know where to send them back
As for refugee status, to get it, you simply need to come to the border with your I.D., show I.D. and say - I request azil status. And that's it, my country has legal obligation to let you in.
But, immigrants don't want to request azil status here, they wanna do it in Germany mainly, bcs Germany has high social aid (huge problem in Germany and one of reasons why AfD did so well these elections), Croatia has small social aid.
I would argue that deterring them to even come is better than to see them drown, be beaten up, exploited and so on.
You can say that's shit and i will agree with you, we just dont have the means to support such high influx of people. I still remember the first waves during Merkel, i worked as volunteer in my city, it was fucking utter chaos.
Europe most def can't. The reason you think you can is bcs you aint seeing all the mess on our border here and just how many people, people without I.D. and people willing to break law are trying to come in daily.
Until Europe fixes its internal problems all immigration should stop
To be part of community rather than people who just appear on their job and go back to their 15 person flat. They almost never participate in any of our activities and when they do it tends to be off bcs they arent familiar with out culture and customs. There is lack of effort on their part to just be part of smth here.
Language is even worse subject. One of running jokes here is that you pray you dont get Wolt, UberEats, Glovo immigrant delivery man bcs you'll spend more time tryign to communicate than to actually get food.
Even if that is the case it is basically cheating and against the law, so them being denied access based on that is valid.
But in truth they destroy it bcs they dont wanna get traced and if you can't trace them you can't send them back bcs well, you don't know where to send them back
As for refugee status, to get it, you simply need to come to the border with your I.D., show I.D. and say - I request azil status. And that's it, my country has legal obligation to let you in.
But, immigrants don't want to request azil status here, they wanna do it in Germany mainly, bcs Germany has high social aid (huge problem in Germany and one of reasons why AfD did so well these elections), Croatia has small social aid.
I would argue that deterring them to even come is better than to see them drown, be beaten up, exploited and so on.
You can say that's shit and i will agree with you, we just dont have the means to support such high influx of people. I still remember the first waves during Merkel, i worked as volunteer in my city, it was fucking utter chaos.
Europe most def can't. The reason you think you can is bcs you aint seeing all the mess on our border here and just how many people, people without I.D. and people willing to break law are trying to come in daily.
Until Europe fixes its internal problems all immigration should stop
So globalisation and immigration are just an excuse to import defacto slaves for cheap labor? Who would have thought that this shit is a bad idea..... meanwhile fluffies like @Toby D. Dog will argue that cUltuRaL enRiChMeNt is worth the pain 🤡🤡
Immigration isn't a simple process. It takes time and patience from all sides. Anyway, I could argue for France but it seems you're making an argument for the specific case of Croatia which I know nothing about except that GoT filmed some sequences there, lol. No offense.
Don't people speak english ? Also it doesn't make much sense, delivery persons only follow the address on their app...
Rewrite the law lawyer.
Dude, why do you think that people come from Syria, Ukraine and Sudan for instance ?
You're being authoritarian with this kind of statement. "all immigration should stop"
Then go ahead and occupy dozen of countries with the hUmAnitAriAn NATO to bring peace where there is war...
Europe can. Do you remember in 2015 when the European Commission had proposed to scatter the migrants all around the EU ? Basic idea and then all states refused because of xenophobia and also "because" : we have to let them choose where they want to live and can't force them to live in Estonia if they want Germany. Which was the most hypocritical argument I'd heard because French liberals don't want them to choose where they can live, they want them just out of France and near the borders like Croatia, Greece and Italy.
Don't people speak english ? Also it doesn't make much sense, delivery persons only follow the address on their app...
Rewrite the law lawyer.
Dude, why do you think that people come from Syria, Ukraine and Sudan for instance ?
You're being authoritarian with this kind of statement. "all immigration should stop"
Then go ahead and occupy dozen of countries with the hUmAnitAriAn NATO to bring peace where there is war...
Europe can. Do you remember in 2015 when the European Commission had proposed to scatter the migrants all around the EU ? Basic idea and then all states refused because of xenophobia and also "because" : we have to let them choose where they want to live and can't force them to live in Estonia if they want Germany. Which was the most hypocritical argument I'd heard because French liberals don't want them to choose where they can live, they want them just out of France and near the borders like Croatia, Greece and Italy.
Doesn't France have like places in cities where cops dont dare to enter bcs of Migrant violence?
They don't, and if they do it is very very weak English.
Hell no, Law they break is lying to police officer and giving false information. That law is fine as it is lmfao
If they wanna lie they can stay fuck out
War refugee isn't same as economic one.
Also UAE and other wealthy muslim nations pay immigrants to go to Europe instead of their countries
cool story
Immigrants dont want that bcs nations like Croatia, Greece, Estonia and so on give less of a social aid than nations like France, Germany and so on.
They don't, and if they do it is very very weak English.
Hell no, Law they break is lying to police officer and giving false information. That law is fine as it is lmfao
If they wanna lie they can stay fuck out
War refugee isn't same as economic one.
Also UAE and other wealthy muslim nations pay immigrants to go to Europe instead of their countries
cool story
Immigrants dont want that bcs nations like Croatia, Greece, Estonia and so on give less of a social aid than nations like France, Germany and so on.
H
Good thing they didn't lost entirely the control of the state to mafia like Rio de Janeiro city did with traficantes/milícia at favelas/zona oeste
I really don't understand why this is important as long they are doing their duties with the nation and they are not breaking the law... Culture will come naturally with time. You are complaining of people that recently moved to your country and wants them to act like the ones who were born and raised for 20+ years?
I'd say this is the case for any country that would receive people from outside. If you can't handle criminals properly that would be a mess. If you can't provide enough for your born population then you won't be able to provide for foreigns(refugees or whatever).
Vote the right to get things right. Vote the left to be left aside.
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I really don't understand why this is important as long they are doing their duties with the nation and they are not breaking the law... Culture will come naturally with time. You are complaining of people that recently moved to your country and wants them to act like the ones who were born and raised for 20+ years?
I'd say this is the case for any country that would receive people from outside. If you can't handle criminals properly that would be a mess. If you can't provide enough for your born population then you won't be able to provide for foreigns(refugees or whatever).
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Vote the right to get things right. Vote the left to be left aside.
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