General & Others Zoro s confirmed to be the deuteragonist.
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I'm not the fool here mate :)
What I'm doing is just stating the facts to make you guys understand that you can't just throw around storytelling concept just to make your agenda move. You have to do it the right way:
1. The story ALWAYS prevails on the words of the authors. If this rule is not respected, the story is rendered valueless.
2. There is no deuteragonist in One Piece because this concept is not pertinent in our current modern storytelling age.
3. If despite that you want to claim that concepts evolves, then okay, but you can't only choose zoro, you need to include ALL the strawhats.
4. The most important character in a modern story after the protagonist is the antagonist. That's a golden rule to create good stories.
5. Zoro is not and was not written like a second main character.
If you understand all of that, there is no problem. If you don't, then you guys are not in the realm of the reality of the narration.
What I'm doing is just stating the facts to make you guys understand that you can't just throw around storytelling concept just to make your agenda move. You have to do it the right way:
1. The story ALWAYS prevails on the words of the authors. If this rule is not respected, the story is rendered valueless.
2. There is no deuteragonist in One Piece because this concept is not pertinent in our current modern storytelling age.
3. If despite that you want to claim that concepts evolves, then okay, but you can't only choose zoro, you need to include ALL the strawhats.
4. The most important character in a modern story after the protagonist is the antagonist. That's a golden rule to create good stories.
5. Zoro is not and was not written like a second main character.
If you understand all of that, there is no problem. If you don't, then you guys are not in the realm of the reality of the narration.
Kuro stomped Nyaban brothers retard, of course they are fodders LMAO.
Zolo become 1 eyed after TS, Oda is talking about the beginning of the story retard.
Ryuma is no underling to a pirate, he wouldn't be a pirate hunter as well.
Zolo didn't save Wano, it was Luffy you clown LMAO. That alone shows the difference, Ryuma saved Wano but Zolo couldn't.
Zolo is nothing without Luffy.
Luffy can still be PK without Zolo, he would find different allies and underlings if not Zolo.
Zolo is stoic, Ryuma is goofy,
You retard crying about this won't change they are different personalities with different sword styles. Zolo himself says he is a sidekick by accepting Luffy as his captain you clown.
Zolo can't lead SH Pirates, no one gives af about him even SH Pirates wouldn't follow him. He is not more important than other Luffy sidekicks.
Zolo become 1 eyed after TS, Oda is talking about the beginning of the story retard.
Ryuma is no underling to a pirate, he wouldn't be a pirate hunter as well.
Zolo didn't save Wano, it was Luffy you clown LMAO. That alone shows the difference, Ryuma saved Wano but Zolo couldn't.
Zolo is nothing without Luffy.
Luffy can still be PK without Zolo, he would find different allies and underlings if not Zolo.
Zolo is stoic, Ryuma is goofy,
You retard crying about this won't change they are different personalities with different sword styles. Zolo himself says he is a sidekick by accepting Luffy as his captain you clown.
Zolo can't lead SH Pirates, no one gives af about him even SH Pirates wouldn't follow him. He is not more important than other Luffy sidekicks.
Now why would Momo wait for Zoro if he didn’t save Wano?
Zoro isn’t just stoic
Go back to your cave you troll lol
My problem is elsewhere. A large part of this fanbase is completely butchering the analysis of One Piece. (Bad analysis, completely bogus theories, powerscaling agenda while looking at the story, a misscomprehension of a bunch of storytelling concept etc.)
This creates a large confusion and people who will start to get expectations in the story there are not supposed to get. This result in dissapointment 80% of the time, hate and bashing.
And we end up with forum like this one where people think they analyze the story perfectly but are really in an information bubble full of hatred and multiple echo rooms.
This is my agenda. I want to help in bringing back positivity in places like this one, to prevent our fanbase from becoming an highly toxic one. For that, I need to deconstruct the wrong beliefs about storytelling and the quality of One Piece that some people have. This subject is one of them.
This creates a large confusion and people who will start to get expectations in the story there are not supposed to get. This result in dissapointment 80% of the time, hate and bashing.
And we end up with forum like this one where people think they analyze the story perfectly but are really in an information bubble full of hatred and multiple echo rooms.
This is my agenda. I want to help in bringing back positivity in places like this one, to prevent our fanbase from becoming an highly toxic one. For that, I need to deconstruct the wrong beliefs about storytelling and the quality of One Piece that some people have. This subject is one of them.
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Yeah Zoro made them fodder. They was introduced as a threat.. me crying about what? You can’t accept Zoro made One Piece popular you clown. Ryuma looks like Zoro. He’s not Luffy, because why create the same character twice? what a dumbass. And he’s not BB either. Double dumbass lol
Now why would Momo wait for Zoro if he didn’t save Wano?
Zoro isn’t just stoic
Go back to your cave you troll lol
Now why would Momo wait for Zoro if he didn’t save Wano?
Zoro isn’t just stoic
Go back to your cave you troll lol
>I say Kuro stomped them so they are fodder
>Then he says Zolo made them fodder
This moron is a good representation of how ZKKclowns are arguing.
Zolo saved nothing, Luffy did that. Then Law and Kid did more by beating an Emperor, CP0 even says all efforts are for nothing if they can't beat the Emperors. No one said beating Alber is even better than beating Queen, Zolo and Sanji both beat All-Stars from Kaido's crew.
So what happened to Zolo himself saying captain should be stronger and he is a sidekick like others?
Imagine Ryuma being an underling like this lmao.
Zolo is not goofy like Ryuma as well, cry all you want. Zolo is a stoic underling of Luffy, he is not more important than other underlings of Luffy.
I always thought Zoro was very important
but now that Oda said it,...Zoro is a deuteragonist and reinforces the representation of Zoro's dream and classifies it as the most important thing.
When Zoro achieves his dream, being the most powerful swordsman in the world, it will be the most important thing in the One Piece manga.
but now that Oda said it,...Zoro is a deuteragonist and reinforces the representation of Zoro's dream and classifies it as the most important thing.
When Zoro achieves his dream, being the most powerful swordsman in the world, it will be the most important thing in the One Piece manga.
@Logiko could you define what is a “story” exactly?
I’m interested to hear how “the authors words don’t define the story” is the story not a sequence of words created by the author?
I fear that in your arrogance you’ve lost the difference between the author’s intention and the fan’s interpretation. You can argue Oda is not doing what he set out to do EFFECTIVELY. But to say we should ignore context he adds is an admission that you’ve created an alternate story in your mind and you don’t want him to burst your bubble
I’m interested to hear how “the authors words don’t define the story” is the story not a sequence of words created by the author?
I fear that in your arrogance you’ve lost the difference between the author’s intention and the fan’s interpretation. You can argue Oda is not doing what he set out to do EFFECTIVELY. But to say we should ignore context he adds is an admission that you’ve created an alternate story in your mind and you don’t want him to burst your bubble
"The Story" is a large term that I use to avoid being too specific. "The story" is everything that is included in the diegese of a final product of a fictionnal work.
With One Piece, the story is everything included in the canon material. This means the content of the chapters and the content of the mini adventures.
I don't consider the Sbs as part of the story as those informations are non diegetic since they do not impact the actual story in any ways and do not prepare events or situation in the continuum of the narration.
(I still consider the sbs as canon tho)
On the contrary.
What I say is very precise and not really" the authors words don't define the story". What I say is:
The reality of the story always prevail on the words of the author on said story.
"What does this mean ?" You might ask.
This means that the reality of the final and finished product that is One Piece should always be superior in value to what Oda can say about his story.
If for example the story shows, through the narration / Through the dialogues / or any other means that Nami has a super-human ability and if Oda says "no, that's not the case", then the words of Oda will be less valuable that the reality of the story.
With this particular case, for example, Nami was shown to depict a super-human sence helping her to detect weithers with an incredible precision. We can see and know this through Nami's characterization, through her own actions and through the dialogue since Vivi herself found incredible that someone is able to predict something unpredictible.
So.. in the potential case where Oda would say "no, she is normal" (which will never happen, lets be honest), what we need to take into account are not the words of Oda but the reality of the story and the content of the narration.
Hence why the reality of the story must ALWAYS prevail on the words of the author on said story.
But if you want to understand that a little bit better, you can do this simple logical thought experiment:
If the story (dialogues + event + narration etc.) says that X=Y
&
If at the same time, Oda is explaining outside of the story that X=/=Y...
What vision will you choose to follow ?
If your answer is Oda, then you will have rendered his story valueless. But the story is supposed to be the FINAL product, its not supposed to be something that can be changed unless we erease it.
This is why the reality of the story must ALWAYS prevail on the words of the author on said story.
-------
This doesn't mean that we must not listen to Oda, but when he says something that can contradict what he wrote, then we must not listen. We must let him change the story himself as this is the only way he can't "rectify" something.
In this case, people are trying to make Oda says that Zoro is the second main protagonist and therefore the most important character after Luffy.
In the reality of the story and the narration, that's not the case.
PLUS
In a story, the most important character after the protagonist is the antagonist. Simply beacuse the story revolves around the duel between the antagonist and the protagonist for a common goal.
Technically here. My reasonning doesn't even apply as the problem is not Oda, but the fans.
With One Piece, the story is everything included in the canon material. This means the content of the chapters and the content of the mini adventures.
I don't consider the Sbs as part of the story as those informations are non diegetic since they do not impact the actual story in any ways and do not prepare events or situation in the continuum of the narration.
(I still consider the sbs as canon tho)
On the contrary.
What I say is very precise and not really" the authors words don't define the story". What I say is:
The reality of the story always prevail on the words of the author on said story.
"What does this mean ?" You might ask.
This means that the reality of the final and finished product that is One Piece should always be superior in value to what Oda can say about his story.
If for example the story shows, through the narration / Through the dialogues / or any other means that Nami has a super-human ability and if Oda says "no, that's not the case", then the words of Oda will be less valuable that the reality of the story.
With this particular case, for example, Nami was shown to depict a super-human sence helping her to detect weithers with an incredible precision. We can see and know this through Nami's characterization, through her own actions and through the dialogue since Vivi herself found incredible that someone is able to predict something unpredictible.
So.. in the potential case where Oda would say "no, she is normal" (which will never happen, lets be honest), what we need to take into account are not the words of Oda but the reality of the story and the content of the narration.
Hence why the reality of the story must ALWAYS prevail on the words of the author on said story.
But if you want to understand that a little bit better, you can do this simple logical thought experiment:
If the story (dialogues + event + narration etc.) says that X=Y
&
If at the same time, Oda is explaining outside of the story that X=/=Y...
What vision will you choose to follow ?
If your answer is Oda, then you will have rendered his story valueless. But the story is supposed to be the FINAL product, its not supposed to be something that can be changed unless we erease it.
This is why the reality of the story must ALWAYS prevail on the words of the author on said story.
-------
This doesn't mean that we must not listen to Oda, but when he says something that can contradict what he wrote, then we must not listen. We must let him change the story himself as this is the only way he can't "rectify" something.
In this case, people are trying to make Oda says that Zoro is the second main protagonist and therefore the most important character after Luffy.
In the reality of the story and the narration, that's not the case.
PLUS
In a story, the most important character after the protagonist is the antagonist. Simply beacuse the story revolves around the duel between the antagonist and the protagonist for a common goal.
Technically here. My reasonning doesn't even apply as the problem is not Oda, but the fans.
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excellent so we agree….the words and images Oda creates are the story. You know that’s the end right? I’m glad that you brought up diegesis and non-diegetic elements (like companion information to the story) because it’s a lovely distraction for idiots and the perfect encapsulation of why your posturing makes you so fucking sad and pathetic
unfortunately you may have wasted 20 years of time jerking it to your “narration degree” (not so smart in this economy) only to find out from a rando on the internet that One Piece is not FINISHED?????? Fuck me do you not realize new information changes the context of “finished” chapters????? He’s not “changing” the story everything he writes and says is part of the story.
Characters from other mediums outside the “diegesis” are NOW CANON in the story. So he “told us” a character existed BEFORE they existed in the story.
Does the background information about the story not exist within the story?
brain dead fucking argument. it’s actually not finished and he clearly has to keep writing it (or what someone like you calls “cHanGINg tHe StORy”)
Any word or image, on page or otherwise changes the context of everything that’s happened in the story previously.
unfortunately you may have wasted 20 years of time jerking it to your “narration degree” (not so smart in this economy) only to find out from a rando on the internet that One Piece is not FINISHED?????? Fuck me do you not realize new information changes the context of “finished” chapters????? He’s not “changing” the story everything he writes and says is part of the story.
Characters from other mediums outside the “diegesis” are NOW CANON in the story. So he “told us” a character existed BEFORE they existed in the story.
Does the background information about the story not exist within the story?
brain dead fucking argument. it’s actually not finished and he clearly has to keep writing it (or what someone like you calls “cHanGINg tHe StORy”)
Any word or image, on page or otherwise changes the context of everything that’s happened in the story previously.
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^^^A simple google search exposed Fraudiko
Link - https://literaryterms.net/deuteragonist/#:~:text=The deuteragonist may be on,the second most important character.
You probably know about the protagonist – the main character in any story, the one everything revolves around. The deuteragonist is the secondary character, right behind the protagonist in importance.
The deuteragonist may be on the protagonist’s side: for example, a love interest or sidekick. Or the deuteragonist can be a villain, like the protagonist’s main rival. The deuteragonist could also be a neutral character. All that matters is that they’re the second most important character.
But...but I know art of story telling from 20 years
Link - https://literaryterms.net/deuteragonist/#:~:text=The deuteragonist may be on,the second most important character.
You probably know about the protagonist – the main character in any story, the one everything revolves around. The deuteragonist is the secondary character, right behind the protagonist in importance.
The deuteragonist may be on the protagonist’s side: for example, a love interest or sidekick. Or the deuteragonist can be a villain, like the protagonist’s main rival. The deuteragonist could also be a neutral character. All that matters is that they’re the second most important character.
But...but I know art of story telling from 20 years
This though...
On top of my head I can name a dozen...
Simple Google search : Stories with deuteragonist
Results : hundreds
On top of my head I can name a dozen...
Simple Google search : Stories with deuteragonist
Results : hundreds
Again. The term is not really adapted to our modern age and its a holdall term that is just creating confusion.
Dude, its not because you see that on a site that its correct or that the usage is correct.
If you knew how many website I saw with bad or wrong definition of the word foreshadowings, you would be amazed.
THe word is important in a CONTEXT. Said context is : a three actors play. The second actor is the deuteragonist.
In modern literature or modern storytelling, qualifying someone of "deuteragonist" is a holdall notion that is very inefficient and not accurate.
The terminology has evolved since then, but you will still find crafty people who never tried to write a story and - to appear intelligent - will use those type of ancient concept to describe characters.
In most of the time, you will find out the same definitions from website to website.
If you want to name an ally character there is a lot of more accurate term that you can use:
- Ally
- Protector
- Mentor
- Rival
- Antagonist
- Contagonist
Etc.
Again, the most important character FOR THE STORY, after the protagonist, is the antagonist. Simply because you can't write the story without the antagonist or the protagonist.