Controversial The Syrian Conflict

Who is mostly at Fault for the Syrian tragedy?


  • Total voters
    12

K!NG HARA$H!MA

Hustlerversity Graduate
#1
So this is a significant issue that I think deserve it's own thread because there's too much ignorance about it


So as we know, Syria have been politically unstable after 1949 CIA coup.


Then, Hafez Al Assad (current President's Father) come, established dictatorship and run somewhat a decent economy.


Now, a lot of people at that time argued the third world is not ready for democracy and needed a period of dictatorship to get a *smart* population that can vote wisely.


After a decades of Massacres and Repression, Hafez Al Assad died and his son Assad took over.


A lot of Syrians hoped for democracy and civil rights, but then they realize it's effectively a dynasty running the country now.


Hafez Al Assad established rampant Nepotism and members of his sect ( a minority) dominates the political apparatus and Bashar Al Assad continue the legacy.


Then Arab Spring come, a lot people particular the Conspiracy Nutjobs resorts to victim blaming the Syrian population for *falling to CIA* propaganda but can you really blame them for rising against this tyrannical regime?


Syrians literally tolerated a literal Genocides( see 1982 Hama massacres) that killed 20k-40k people and add to that the countless political assassination and Repression over the decades and Assad himself already ruled over a decade by that point.

Of course you are naturally going to be tired of it, no matter how good your economy is on paper.



The Syrian Arab Army ( SAA) might the worst army in modern Time. All Thanks to the Military structure where Loyalists and members of Assad's alawite sect dominates the high ranks.

Achievement:-

Easily lose the strategic Golan heights to Israel,

Sloppy campaign in Hama that turned into genocide,

Failed interventions in Jordan,

Failed interventions in Lebanon,


Went hardcore against Protests in 2011 that was final nail in the coffin.


Even after the initial Iranian support, they ain't able to restore order quickly.


This all opened the doors to country being used as a playground between regional and worlds super power and now have become orgies of violence where every factions have more or less committed war crimes.


One hoped for Russian intervention in 2015 to quickly end the conflict but their campaign just make the issue more complicated


Terrorists also managed to gain a strong foothold,

France air strikes in Syria is retaliated by Paris bombing in 2015, making the spillover of the conflict global.



The millions of Syrians flocking to Europe also caused a big migrants crisis and sucking out the tolerance for immigrants as well helping the rise of far rights.


Just the other day, there was riots in Turkey between Syrians and Turks. Tension rising in Lebanon and Jordan's too.


Even if you send them back,
They will most likely
1) disappeared in instant
2) forcefully conscripted in the regime forces
3) they join ISIS


Because Syria is unlivable and any young Man will become disillusioned.


Truth is, Syria doesn't exist anymore.

It's just Battleground for foreign powers.


Iran and Russia invested too much saving the regime and Syria is will no be able to pay back.


Iran, regardless of regime change happened there, will annex Syrian territories that it have strong influence , Russia also will lease many strategic land for decades. Turkey also will annex some territories. Israel too will carve out some as a buffer .
All because Syria ain't capable of paying back .



All of this can be avoided had Assad just step down like Mubarak in Egypt or Ben Ali in Tunisia.



Hundreds of thousands dead, millions internally displaced, Millions refuges in others countries, whole country is destroyed....

All because One man greed to hold on Power.


Anyways, give your thoughts about this conflict below
 
#5
From the river to the see Kurdistan will be free
From Iran to the Sea :steef:
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To oversimplify it,

US backs Kurdish Militants that Turks consider terrorists
Oh yeah this. Turkey sucks.

Should have made this a seeking peace in whole Middle East thread instead of Syrian stuff only haha. And then summon the intellectuals :kata:


Worstgen will riddle this mess and bring peace where no general, no diplomat, no politician no no one could :endthis:
 
#6
Assad and his cronies neg diff, they set the stage in the first place for bunch of islamist groups to bring further chaos into the country and letting the dissenting populace flee the country.
 
#7
Assad and his cronies neg diff, they set the stage in the first place for bunch of islamist groups to bring further chaos into the country and letting the dissenting populace flee the country.
The Sykes-Picot agreement was what set the stage for all of the chaos in the Middle East. Ministers from Britain and France who never even set foot in the region drew random lines on a map and mandated it. A lot of the issues in the Middle East with the Kurds for example are byproducts of Sykes-Picot.
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US backs Kurdish Militants that Turks consider terrorists
I mean the US had them on the terror list but conveniently removed them to deal with ISIS. Just like how they removed the Houthis when they reached an agreement with Saudi Arabia but then now put them back in with the Red Sea attacks.
 
#9
Sykes Picot bits of history is cool but its is not the biggest fault imo. Civil war didn’t start because of that.
In terms of setting the stage, it’s definitely one of the OGs to the dictatorship and instability. Of course in the present the blame goes to Assad, Iran, with intervention from Russia and the West. Tho Israel and its not so secret proxies gotta be in the poll too.
 
#10
Sykes Picot bits of history is cool but its is not the biggest fault imo. Civil war didn’t start because of that.
Yeah as I’ve read more about it I think it really wasn’t as bad as I was lead to believe. Most countries kept those borders a hundred years later.
 

K!NG HARA$H!MA

Hustlerversity Graduate
#11
From Iran to the Sea :steef:
Post automatically merged:



Oh yeah this. Turkey sucks.

Should have made this a seeking peace in whole Middle East thread instead of Syrian stuff only haha. And then summon the intellectuals :kata:


Worstgen will riddle this mess and bring peace where no general, no diplomat, no politician no no one could :endthis:

Honestly the Syrian Conflict might summarize everything that went wrong in the middle east.


Solving Syria's problem is solving Middle East Problem.


The Sykes-Picot agreement was what set the stage for all of the chaos in the Middle East. Ministers from Britain and France who never even set foot in the region drew random lines on a map and mandated it. A lot of the issues in the Middle East with the Kurds for example are byproducts of Sykes-Picot.
Incomplete analysis


Borders are often made randomly and without concerns regards to demographics and Population





We need to go back further and see how Ottoman Empire handled the rise nationalism in their lands and Guess what they didn't handle it well


The Declining Ottomans needed to catch up and spends future elites to study in the west and they come back with a lot of reformist ideas and this include the elites minorities in the land


So in the first time after Thousands of Years, The Middle East is moving away from good old multiethnic de-centralized empire- style to modern centralized- nation state Style


So they begans reformation movement and tried to create a one Ottoman identity across the state, which forces the identity of majority on minorites, revoking autonomy, which then triggers riots, revolts, exodus and multiple Genocides and the trend continues until the inevitable Arab Revolts and collapse of the of empire



A lot of People Praises Attatürk for westernizing and secularizing Turkey but his policies breeds the further marginalization of minorities, particularly the one that escaped genocide like Kurds and Alevis which includes total ban on even speaking the language and cultural expression


Till today, Kurds are heavily discriminated in Turkey . Bad enough for too many people to join terrorists and Separatists .

Turkey is now routinely conducting cross border strikes and military operations especially in neighboring countries Kurdish areas.

Surreelllllllyyyyyyyyyyyy that will solve the issue


Pan-Arabism also further marginalized the minorities which in it's peak results in gassing the Kurds and cleansing of Assyrians by Sadam regime in countries like Iraq

Zionism also come from this framework


And the you get Iranian *Revolution*,
Which can be seen as Iranian Shia Imperialism that turn the region dynamics into sectarian cold war, that is countered by KSA. Opening another problematic layer

The fact that Iran enjoys substantial minority Shia Arabs support tells you how much they are treated in their home countries.




So just to be clear, Agency exists. At most you can only blame half of the problem to outsiders

It's skill issues in regards to appeasement politics that can provide social harmony and prospering state.


Instead, you get the never ending cycle of repression, tyranny and revenge politics.


Best example is after US starting pulling out of Iraq,

US gave power to majority Shia population Lead by Nour Maliki.

Instead of bringing everyone together, he actively enact policies to *get back* at Sunnis. Then you get civil wars and those torture camps of Sadam regime sunni ruling elites , become a hub of ISIS ie Abu Bakar Al Baghdadi
 
#12
Honestly the Syrian Conflict might summarize everything that went wrong in the middle east.


Solving Syria's problem is solving Middle East Problem.




Incomplete analysis


Borders are often made randomly and without concerns regards to demographics and Population





We need to go back further and see how Ottoman Empire handled the rise nationalism in their lands and Guess what they didn't handle it well


The Declining Ottomans needed to catch up and spends future elites to study in the west and they come back with a lot of reformist ideas and this include the elites minorities in the land


So in the first time after Thousands of Years, The Middle East is moving away from good old multiethnic de-centralized empire- style to modern centralized- nation state Style


So they begans reformation movement and tried to create a one Ottoman identity across the state, which forces the identity of majority on minorites, revoking autonomy, which then triggers riots, revolts, exodus and multiple Genocides and the trend continues until the inevitable Arab Revolts and collapse of the of empire



A lot of People Praises Attatürk for westernizing and secularizing Turkey but his policies breeds the further marginalization of minorities, particularly the one that escaped genocide like Kurds and Alevis which includes total ban on even speaking the language and cultural expression


Till today, Kurds are heavily discriminated in Turkey . Bad enough for too many people to join terrorists and Separatists .

Turkey is now routinely conducting cross border strikes and military operations especially in neighboring countries Kurdish areas.

Surreelllllllyyyyyyyyyyyy that will solve the issue


Pan-Arabism also further marginalized the minorities which in it's peak results in gassing the Kurds and cleansing of Assyrians by Sadam regime in countries like Iraq

Zionism also come from this framework


And the you get Iranian *Revolution*,
Which can be seen as Iranian Shia Imperialism that turn the region dynamics into sectarian cold war, that is countered by KSA. Opening another problematic layer

The fact that Iran enjoys substantial minority Shia Arabs support tells you how much they are treated in their home countries.




So just to be clear, Agency exists. At most you can only blame half of the problem to outsiders

It's skill issues in regards to appeasement politics that can provide social harmony and prospering state.


Instead, you get the never ending cycle of repression, tyranny and revenge politics.


Best example is after US starting pulling out of Iraq,

US gave power to majority Shia population Lead by Nour Maliki.

Instead of bringing everyone together, he actively enact policies to *get back* at Sunnis. Then you get civil wars and those torture camps of Sadam regime sunni ruling elites , become a hub of ISIS ie Abu Bakar Al Baghdadi
They have some agency but they aren’t doing what they are supposed to do with it however. And it’s not like the US/Israel is gonna sit around and make it easy, just look at what happened in Egypt when the Muslim Brotherhood took the office. They didn’t even last a year before being removed. Nationalism and ethnic division also runs rampant, long story short exploring a robust Muslim version of the EU bloc would probably work if they can set aside the differences. They already have a basis with the OIC, but it’s been useless and doesn’t have the economic components. However forming a block like that would be catastrophic for Israel and they would never allow it so they conveniently want a destabilized Middle East to carve out their own empire.
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Yeah as I’ve read more about it I think it really wasn’t as bad as I was lead to believe. Most countries kept those borders a hundred years later.
They kept the borders because they were basically ushered into the new nation-state era so everyone fended for themselves at the Paris Peace Conference without really caring about what was to come. Not everyone was listened to and the Kurds ended up empty handed.
 
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#13
Giving a State to the Kurds is cool until they start spreading their revolution across the whole region :suresure:


But their revolution is always better than the Iran revolution :kayneshrug:


To be honest, last time I checked they were marxist-leninist. Even though they have this direct democracy kind of stuff :hope:
 

TheAncientCenturion

I will never forgive Oda
‎‎‎
#20
that whole area is really weird about the kurds, is like asking an isreali about palestine and vice verse
I’ve been informed that they are;
“A bunch of separate tribes that barely speak the same language”

and

there’s about four different kinds of Kurdish
 
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