I know I know, the thing is I have no hope. After what Loda did (or didn't do) in Wano I don't trust him anymore. It's like he doesn't care about any characters that aren't Luffy and his immediate rivals/enemies.
That’s fair I used to think that somewhat as well after wano, but after a reread I think zoro is fine. He did enough (fight wise) in wano, and I personally think oda will hit his character stuff later be that a return to wano or through someone else etc.
No there are legit reasons to believe the fight won't happen.
Simply because a promise of some sort is made in the series, does not mean that sad promise has to come true. Statements are used for fake suspense all the time in the series.
Narratively, Zoro can establish himself as the WSS, without ever fighting Mihawk.
Narratively, Oda establishes in chapter 52 that Zoro dream of becoming wss is synonymous with the defeat of one man and that is Mihawk.
Zoro: From now till the day I beat him (Mihawk) to become the worlds strongest swordsman.
No where in the story has it been said that a certain feat etc can be used to attain the title. Time and time again it’s reiterated that for zoro to become wss he must defeat Mihawk, and for all this fake suspense you keep talking about one thing is still true 1000+ chapters in this manga.
Mihawk: However long it takes I will await you at the top. Strive with your whole heart and mind to best this blade,fierce one.
Nowhere in the story has anyone been given a superior blade, swordsmanship etc. even the mighty shanks in kaido top 5 has inferior swordsmanship to Mihawk. The fight will happen it’s as set in stone as luffy becoming the pirate king.
You deluded prime apes watched Zolo’s YC1 opponent get ass wiped like toilet paper by an indifferent Admiral, and instead of checking yourselves in to the mental asylum for another appointment, you came on an eforum and started screaming about how amazing Green Bull’s toilet paper looks, actually!!!
Your deluded ass saw how Fraud bull twerked against a Top Tier from a distance , he didn't even use his swordmanship ; Midzalu couldn't even put an already heavily injured sentomaru while Lucci did with one attack and got pizza diffed .
Zoro is dealing with Midzalu's bosses whose Haki is on the level of making admirals twerking .
And then when Mihawk and Zolo are nowhere to be found in the most important double spread of the manga, your deranged ass cries and bitches and shits and pisses all over the internet while accusing others of “coping” lmfao
Just call your therapist, stop humiliating yourself like this lmfao
I think you're missing my point here. You're limiting your interpretation of the page to that, because that's what you want the page to mean. You hold those panels of characters in high importance for being important than others down the line in the race to One Piece.
The OP extended his interpretation to meaning the swordsmen aren't cared for by Oda and Kuzan is an actual contender for the OP.
Others extended their interpretation to Koby being the 2nd most important Marine, if not equally as important as Akainu.
I can easily, claim that:
Sabo got a bigger panel than Kuzan + Garling + Koby, so he'll be a bigger factor to the race of One Piece.
Dragon has a smaller panel than Kuzan, Garling, Koby, Sakazuki, Buggy, Sabo, thus he will be less relevant than them.
You are choosing to limit it to that. Others are not. Others are claiming that Koby will be important than bloody Zoro, which is absolutely impossible.
There are claims being made that those who did not appear here will be less important factors than those who did.
My post had nothing to do with believing those who appeared being important to the race of One Piece. My post had to do with implying those who didn't appear being less important, and adding arbitrary values to a page that Oda drew for cool purposes.
The Throne Speeches panel, same shit. People added their headcannons to define the importance of certain panels and what they meant. Karasu/Betty/Lindberg didn't appear there? Ok they're weaker than Morley. RA who has 0 interest in "ruling" is put there. Bonney who has 0 interest in ruling is put there. Hawkins and Apoo who decided to serve Kaido were put there. People made arguments about how Yonko being shown the biggest vs Marine admirals getting a little panel means Yonko > Admirals. Weevil was hyped up due to appearing here, only to serve as GB's hypetool off-panel. Hell people were making arguments for other WorstGen members being as strong/important as Luffy based off of this panel, turns out half of them not even close.
They're nothing more than pages Oda draws for cool/impact purposes. They're some of the important figures in OP world, but that's about it. Trying to run agendas of who is more important than the other based off of a singular page rather than the actual narrative established before this is just dumb to me. Oda in that page included some of the key figures we saw this arc that aren't on Egghead outside of Luffy. Those who we didn't see in this arc, weren't included.
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You do know saying he will and saying he won't are both assumptions right? It's the equivalent of people who were 100% reassuring that ZKK will happen, then got pissy at Oda that it didn't.
Simply because a fight is slated to happen in the future between two characters, does not mean it actually will happen.
Coby as a decision maker will be more important than Zoro, because Zoro makes no moves of his own, that falls on Luffy
Something as general as the throne panel is not the best comparison here, Doflamingo was just blabbering about the seas and we get almost a complete set of the factions he mentioned.
This panel was thrown at one of the climaxes of Vegapunk’s speech, the 4 leading pirates seeking the One Piece were included, and for the rest Oda deliberately fit in these characters, it is really hard to argue how such panel was assembled ”almost” randomly when you take into account Vegapunk’s speech, and Oda including the main players of multiple factions among other individuals he knows will be the main arbiters for the OP race
Why are you insisting on size lol
The Yonko are the people actively seeking out the prize, and the meddlers were fit into the rest of the page
Getting too technical with who got which box is a silly thought lol
But a panel like this at one of Vegapunk speech climaxes? Too deliberate, he didn’t randomly draw these characters
Ngl they are pathetic
First they was just politicians and old farts(thats what they said) that can t fight but now that they showed power ,the admiral fans are threatened especially when Saturn had a better showing than Kizaru
I remember how clowns like @Lee Ba Shou crying about them not being fighters but just frauds , but his ass changed stances each time with each cope ; from Kuzan not being Teach's subordinate to Elders etc ... This mf is just taking Ls
No there are legit reasons to believe the fight won't happen.
Simply because a promise of some sort is made in the series, does not mean that sad promise has to come true. Statements are used for fake suspense all the time in the series.
Narratively, Zoro can establish himself as the WSS, without ever fighting Mihawk.
Coby as a decision maker will be more important than Zoro, because Zoro makes no moves of his own, that falls on Luffy
Something as general as the throne panel is not the best comparison here, Doflamingo was just blabbering about the seas and we get almost a complete set of the factions he mentioned.
- Limiting Zoro to Luffy's underling, ignoring Koby being Drake + Grus + Kujaku's underling?? Literally, after the man changed the course Luffy was going to take on his journey. Of course, Zoro will be less important in making independent decisions as the VC, but Koby as Drake's direct underling will have all the free power to make decisions, while not even being top 3 in his squad.
Even then the importance has nothing to do with whether one has the power to make decisions or not. If Zoro does more in the race to be the PK, defeats more enemies and more powerful enemies... he is by default more IMPORTANT. You now added an arbitrary thing of "decision maker" to justify you holding this page in high significance.
- Trying to undermine it by saying Doflamingo was just blabbering about the seas, when he was specifically talking about the throne of the Pirate King... is just being disingenuous. And what is the Pirate King related to? Ah yes, the one piece. He mentions those groups, because Oda has him mention those groups lol. Oda purposely had him collectively mention the Worst Gen & Warlords, rather than singling out people, he then purposely drew the likes of Bonney and such with equal panel importance as Luffy. Oda had Doffy mention the RA, people who have 0 interest in the Throne of the Pirate King. The chapter is literally dubbed "Opening Speech", and you trying to make that inferior to Vegapunk is absolutely ridiculous. Egghead is a mere part of the Throne War that Doflamingo opened in 801. Karasu/Lindberg have been more important than Ivankov.
This panel was thrown at one of the climaxes of Vegapunk’s speech, the 4 leading pirates seeking the One Piece were included, and for the rest Oda deliberately fit in these characters, it is really hard to argue how such panel was assembled ”almost” randomly when you take into account Vegapunk’s speech, and Oda including the main players of multiple factions among other individuals he knows will be the main arbiters for the OP race
Absolutely nobody stated they were chosen randomly, I specifically stated Oda showed some of the key players of the arc, who aren't in Egghead outside of Luffy. That is not random.
- Garling, new character who crucified a fellow Celestial Dragon
- Kuzan, just had a fight with Garp
- Sabo, exposed the info of Imu & Gorosei to Iva + Dragon, and us seeing his whole raid and him going against King of the World
- Koby, the guy who got rescued by Garp, resulting in Garp's sacrifice
- Dragon, now revealed the important info of ancient weapons as head of the RA, and directly involved with VP + Kuma.
- Man with the burn marks, mysterious dude responsible for the 4th poneglyph, Oda using this oppertunity to tease him like he did with Morley & Aramaki in chapter 801.
- Akainu, the guy dealing with the whole marine fiasco right now actively in this arc
These characters being shown here does not signify them being more important than Fujitora/Aramaki/Mihawk/Zoro/Gorosei/Smoker/etc whoever else you wanna name em. Just that they'll play important roles, that's it.
Why are you insisting on size lol
The Yonko are the people actively seeking out the prize, and the meddlers were fit into the rest of the page
Getting too technical with who got which box is a silly thought lol
But a panel like this at one of Vegapunk speech climaxes? Too deliberate, he didn’t randomly draw these characters
I'm not insisting on anything other than trying to use this page for narrative importance of a character for something the entire series has been building towards.... the one piece... over 1121 chapters and 13 pages prior to it is completely arbitrary and leads to dumb arguments that have 0 merit other than w.e headcannon value you want to assign to panels.
Ah yes who gets the big boxes is irrelevant because it doesn't suit your agenda... that's the entire point. You find it silly because it won't serve your narrative. You don't find it silly believing that a singular page will determine the importance Oda will give characters in the race to be PK, and yet that's absolutely silly to me. This is going to back to the Marineford non-sense of Jozu being stronger than Vista because he appeared in the opening panels with newgate and marco, yet the entire war after says something else. This is similar to Cinera determining who the strongest warlord is by the panel order of their introduction...
Post Marineford, Oda literally draws this with the Supernovas and that the burden of the a new pirate era is on their shoulders. Since then we've gotten Capone fodder fest, with the likes of Jack being better. The likes of Catarina Devon who're younger than Capone & Urouge. Drake not even being a pirate. Hawkins & Appoo who go and bend the knee to old pirates then get fodderized. Smoothie who is 33/34 being better than half of the supernovas. Yamato who'll eventually be a pirate soon. Burgess, 28, who plays a more important role than somebody like Hawkins in the new era of piracy as Teach's 1st fleet captain. And this is where Oda actually states "These 7 will be the ones carrying the new era of piracy", giving them all nice panels after...yet he still introduces more younger pirates that have more significance in the new era of piracy than half of the supernovas.
- Mihawk became his teacher and Zoro his student, rather than maintaining a pure rivalry.
- Mihawk along with Crossguild get fed to Blackbeard along with the RHP to hype up Blackbeard pirates as the greatest pirate threat in history for Luffy to overcome, and making them bigger than the Rocks Pirates.
- Mihawk just isn't the WSS (which is a possibility since Oda stopped including his title in his name tags), with either Fujitora growing stronger if he's gotten his DF recently, the other with Nusjuro just being the strongest mf alive for swordsmen.
All 3 of them are enough for Oda to not have Mihawk face Zoro. Beating Mihawk isn't the requirement for WSS, it's simply the most direct path in achieving it.
Yes that's the direct path to becoming the WSS. Luffy would have to take on Roger if he was alive in order to be the PK. Doesn't mean he can't do it without Roger being alive. Zoro will simply need to surpass the achievement that made Dracule the WSS, in order to become the WSS.
- Limiting Zoro to Luffy's underling, ignoring Koby being Drake + Grus + Kujaku's underling?? Literally, after the man changed the course Luffy was going to take on his journey. Of course, Zoro will be less important in making independent decisions as the VC, but Koby as Drake's direct underling will have all the free power to make decisions, while not even being top 3 in his squad.
Even then the importance has nothing to do with whether one has the power to make decisions or not. If Zoro does more in the race to be the PK, defeats more enemies and more powerful enemies... he is by default more IMPORTANT. You now added an arbitrary thing of "decision maker" to justify you holding this page in high significance.
- Trying to undermine it by saying Doflamingo was just blabbering about the seas, when he was specifically talking about the throne of the Pirate King... is just being disingenuous. And what is the Pirate King related to? Ah yes, the one piece. He mentions those groups, because Oda has him mention those groups lol. Oda purposely had him collectively mention the Worst Gen & Warlords, rather than singling out people, he then purposely drew the likes of Bonney and such with equal panel importance as Luffy. Oda had Doffy mention the RA, people who have 0 interest in the Throne of the Pirate King. The chapter is literally dubbed "Opening Speech", and you trying to make that inferior to Vegapunk is absolutely ridiculous. Egghead is a mere part of the Throne War that Doflamingo opened in 801. Karasu/Lindberg have been more important than Ivankov.
Absolutely nobody stated they were chosen randomly, I specifically stated Oda showed some of the key players of the arc, who aren't in Egghead outside of Luffy. That is not random.
- Garling, new character who crucified a fellow Celestial Dragon
- Kuzan, just had a fight with Garp
- Sabo, exposed the info of Imu & Gorosei to Iva + Dragon, and us seeing his whole raid and him going against King of the World
- Koby, the guy who got rescued by Garp, resulting in Garp's sacrifice
- Dragon, now revealed the important info of ancient weapons as head of the RA, and directly involved with VP + Kuma.
- Man with the burn marks, mysterious dude responsible for the 4th poneglyph, Oda using this oppertunity to tease him like he did with Morley & Aramaki in chapter 801.
- Akainu, the guy dealing with the whole marine fiasco right now actively in this arc
These characters being shown here does not signify them being more important than Fujitora/Aramaki/Mihawk/Zoro/Gorosei/Smoker/etc whoever else you wanna name em. Just that they'll play important roles, that's it.
I'm not insisting on anything other than trying to use this page for narrative importance of a character for something the entire series has been building towards.... the one piece... over 1121 chapters and 13 pages prior to it is completely arbitrary and leads to dumb arguments that have 0 merit other than w.e headcannon value you want to assign to panels.
Ah yes who gets the big boxes is irrelevant because it doesn't suit your agenda... that's the entire point. You find it silly because it won't serve your narrative. You don't find it silly believing that a singular page will determine the importance Oda will give characters in the race to be PK, and yet that's absolutely silly to me. This is going to back to the Marineford non-sense of Jozu being stronger than Vista because he appeared in the opening panels with newgate and marco, yet the entire war after says something else. This is similar to Cinera determining who the strongest warlord is by the panel order of their introduction...
Post Marineford, Oda literally draws this with the Supernovas and that the burden of the a new pirate era is on their shoulders. Since then we've gotten Capone fodder fest, with the likes of Jack being better. The likes of Catarina Devon who're younger than Capone & Urouge. Drake not even being a pirate. Hawkins & Appoo who go and bend the knee to old pirates then get fodderized. Smoothie who is 33/34 being better than half of the supernovas. Yamato who'll eventually be a pirate soon. Burgess, 28, who plays a more important role than somebody like Hawkins in the new era of piracy as Teach's 1st fleet captain. And this is where Oda actually states "These 7 will be the ones carrying the new era of piracy", giving them all nice panels after...yet he still introduces more younger pirates that have more significance in the new era of piracy than half of the supernovas.
Post automatically merged:
- Mihawk became his teacher and Zoro his student, rather than maintaining a pure rivalry.
- Mihawk along with Crossguild get fed to Blackbeard along with the RHP to hype up Blackbeard pirates as the greatest pirate threat in history for Luffy to overcome, and making them bigger than the Rocks Pirates.
- Mihawk just isn't the WSS (which is a possibility since Oda stopped including his title in his name tags), with either Fujitora growing stronger if he's gotten his DF recently, the other with Nusjuro just being the strongest mf alive for swordsmen.
All 3 of them are enough for Oda to not have Mihawk face Zoro. Beating Mihawk isn't the requirement for WSS, it's simply the most direct path in achieving it.
Post automatically merged:
Yes that's the direct path to becoming the WSS. Luffy would have to take on Roger if he was alive in order to be the PK. Doesn't mean he can't do it without Roger being alive. Zoro will simply need to surpass the achievement that made Dracule the WSS, in order to become the WSS.
- Mihawk acknowledges that he would be training someone who would still be after his head.
-Mihawk will not be fed to bb pirates… again narratively Mihawk himself wants to see luffy and zoro again this will happen.
-Mihawk is the wss in name and reality… no other swordsman is stronger than him and no others have a black blade this is simply your headcannon/weird cope.
- Mihawk acknowledges that he would be training someone who would still be after his head.
-Mihawk will not be fed to bb pirates… again narratively Mihawk himself wants to see luffy and zoro again this will happen.
-Mihawk is the wss in name and reality… no other swordsman is stronger than him and no others have a black blade this is simply your headcannon/weird cope.
Legit reasons =/= It 100% won't happen, simply reasons that are justified for why somebody thinks it won't happen.
It's all a guessing game, whether you think it will or think it won't.
.
.
.
- That doesn't mean Mihawk will get his wish
- That doesn't mean Mihawk will get his wish
- That's in the vivre card, before Oda decided to remove his WSS title from his name titles.
pre-Reverie
post-reverie
Furthermore, vivre card is only applicable to people who care about supplementary material like that. For readers who solely care about the manga, that's a 100% legit reason to believe the fight won't happen.
Legit reasons =/= It 100% won't happen, simply reasons that are justified for why somebody thinks it won't happen.
It's all a guessing game, whether you think it will or think it won't.
.
.
.
- That doesn't mean Mihawk will get his wish
- That doesn't mean Mihawk will get his wish
- That's in the vivre card, before Oda decided to remove his WSS title from his name titles.
pre-Reverie
post-reverie
Furthermore, vivre card is only applicable to people who care about supplementary material like that. For readers who solely care about the manga, that's a 100% legit reason to believe the fight won't happen.
Legit reasons =/= It 100% won't happen, simply reasons that are justified for why somebody thinks it won't happen.
It's all a guessing game, whether you think it will or think it won't.
.
.
.
- That doesn't mean Mihawk will get his wish
- That doesn't mean Mihawk will get his wish
- That's in the vivre card, before Oda decided to remove his WSS title from his name titles.
pre-Reverie
post-reverie
Furthermore, vivre card is only applicable to people who care about supplementary material like that. For readers who solely care about the manga, that's a 100% legit reason to believe the fight won't happen.
Remove his name title. Wtf are you even talking about?
1. Bro you just saying anything and not giving any reason other than well it doesn't mean he will get his wish. So it doesn't mean Koby will get his wish to be an admiral either. Like what the hell are you even saying?
2. Where are you getting Oda removed his title from the name titles when the Marines literally still said it in the same chapter you got that picture from
Narratively as of chapter 1121 there is no guessing anything.
Narratively everything in the story and out (sbs and vivre cards) supports it.
The oath is alive and well for both parties and on top of that after having been trained by Mihawk and unlocking adv coc haki that dream is doubled down on by zoro.
Each and every new swordsman introduced have had inferior blades to Mihawk… from a gorosei to an admiral, and now the new guy at the end of the chapter. You keep saying that there can be some other feat which can make zoro wss but that is pure headcannon. The one and only feat that ZORO HIMSELF WILL ACCEPT that will make him Wss is the defeat of Dracule Mihawk. What even makes you think zoro would say oh I cut bigger than Mihawk therefore I am wss absolute bs my man and u know it
Narratively as of chapter 1121 there is no guessing anything.
Narratively everything in the story and out (sbs and vivre cards) supports it.
The oath is alive and well for both parties and on top of that after having been trained by Mihawk and unlocking adv coc haki that dream is doubled down on by zoro.
Each and every new swordsman introduced have had inferior blades to Mihawk… from a gorosei to an admiral, and now the new guy at the end of the chapter. You keep saying that there can be some other feat which can make zoro wss but that is pure headcannon. The one and only feat that ZORO HIMSELF WILL ACCEPT that will make him Wss is the defeat of Dracule Mihawk. What even makes you think zoro would say oh I cut bigger than Mihawk therefore I am wss absolute bs my man and u know it
Narratively as of chapter 1121 there is no guessing anything.
Narratively everything in the story and out (sbs and vivre cards) supports it.
The oath is alive and well for both parties and on top of that after having been trained by Mihawk and unlocking adv coc haki that dream is doubled down on by zoro.
Each and every new swordsman introduced have had inferior blades to Mihawk… from a gorosei to an admiral, and now the new guy at the end of the chapter. You keep saying that there can be some other feat which can make zoro wss but that is pure headcannon. The one and only feat that ZORO HIMSELF WILL ACCEPT that will make him Wss is the defeat of Dracule Mihawk. What even makes you think zoro would say oh I cut bigger than Mihawk therefore I am wss absolute bs my man and u know it
I think you're trying to argue whether he will kill him or not, I'm not really trying to argue whether he will or not. Simply gave you legit reasons that are justified by the narrative for why some fans believe the two won't fight. If you don't believe in them, sure go ahead. But claiming they're trolling or messing around is just false.
Until it happens, all future events are guesses... that's how the future works.
I think you're trying to argue whether he will kill him or not, I'm not really trying to argue whether he will or not. Simply gave you legit reasons that are justified by the narrative for why some fans believe the two won't fight. If you don't believe in them, sure go ahead. But claiming they're trolling or messing around is just false.
Until it happens, all future events are guesses... that's how the future works.
I gave you multiple reasons, yet you only looked at the post that I replied to where the individual is assuming simply because a character wishes for something they'll get it... lol. Which in lord knows how many manga... has been proven wrong. So assuming that because a character has stated something it's going to 100% happen is just wrong.
Legit reasons =/= It 100% won't happen, simply reasons that are justified for why somebody thinks it won't happen.
It's all a guessing game, whether you think it will or think it won't.
.
.
.
- That doesn't mean Mihawk will get his wish
- That doesn't mean Mihawk will get his wish
- That's in the vivre card, before Oda decided to remove his WSS title from his name titles.
pre-Reverie
post-reverie
Furthermore, vivre card is only applicable to people who care about supplementary material like that. For readers who solely care about the manga, that's a 100% legit reason to believe the fight won't happen.
I gave you multiple reasons, yet you only looked at the post that I replied to where the individual is assuming simply because a character wishes for something they'll get it... lol. Which in lord knows how many manga... has been proven wrong. So assuming that because a character has stated something it's going to 100% happen is just wrong.
Actually scroll up. I addressed the other reason. Like I said in the same chapter the title still being used and they even brought a Yonkou involved in it to stamp how big of a title it is saying his skills even surpas him. The title is so crazy he got a bounty above his "Captain" and Luffy and BB previous bounty.
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