Controversial The hijacking of western entertainment made for men

#1
This is a super controversial topic and i expect to be absolutely hated for it. However, since most of social media and my personal IRL bubble being very left leaning, this is not a sentiment i can really talk about with my peers. WorstGen has a much more mixed user base, so maybe i can get different opinions on it. I'm very left leaning btw, so this is why this opinion is blowing my own mind, because even if agree with the sentiment, i simply have stopped enjoying most of these things because of it.

But this feeling just keeps growing year after year for me. I like nerd shit, super hero movies, comics, anime, manga, gaming and so on. Stories, no matter the medium, are one of my favorite things about life.

Many of these franchises had huge male audiences before the 2010s. There were women who enjoyed them too, that's 100% true, but they enjoyed it back then as it was, even if they weren't the target audience and i think that's great.

However, since 2010, nobody can deny that so many franchises and IPs have been slowly taken over creatively (even if the executives and leaders are still white straight dudes), and many projects now are always obsessed with divserity, inclusion and representation. For a long time, i didn't mind it that much, even some games that are super controversial like Last of Us Part II, i still really enjoyed it.

However, it has gotten to a point i just can't take this shit anymore. If you look at anything that dudes used to enjoy back in the day, they've all been changed wildly.

You don't see men going out there and telling people to make romcoms and erotic novels to be written in a way to be inclusive for men, those things had a huge female audience and it was their target audience, there is nothing wrong with making stuff with that target audience in mind.

But, for some reason, anything that men used to be the target audience for, now needs to be inclusive and be made for everyone.

It's gotten so bad, it's stupid. For example, if any black character shows up on screen, they have to put some kind of trap / hip hop / rap music in the background, while giving the character the same Killmonger hair cut.

Most dudes becoming main heroes now can't be strong, buff dudes. They have to be attratctive to the female gaze, so they have to be slender, and pretty. Timothée Chalamet is a great example of that type.

Any buff dude on western media are either evil or they are on the good side, but they are really fucking stupid and brain dead. Most of the time, these characters are used to make another character, of any minority, shine brighter on the scene. Many franchises have taken the path of putting a woman as the new main character of the franchise and to make them shine brighter, they make all the men around her incompetent. Look what they turned Thor into, just to make Jane look badass and competent beside him in Love and Thunder.

The biggest thing for me was the latest decision for Star Wars.

Their plan is to make a new Rey movie right? and the storyline is gonna be about Rey leading a new Jedi Order, which most fans thought it was gonna be Luke's thing. And who do you guys think they hired to be the director of this new movie? That's right, a feminist activist known for making documentaries against men and the patriarchy. This director has 0 experience making anything in fiction / action / fantasy / scifi, literally nothing.

Anyway, rant over.

Let me get your rage.
 
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Yoho

✌𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓢𝓲𝓶𝓹𝓵𝓲𝓬𝓲𝓽𝔂 𝓸𝓯 𝓛𝓲𝓯𝓮✌
#2
🤔 some points i agree with others I don't

I'll continue to enjoy the content either way but can't deny the quality and creativity went down since the industry started to try to be inclusive

Sometimes it works and they produce a great movie/series or book/game other times it feels like they're leaning to far into it to the point the characters feel more like a caricature

No rage here I'm not one to get angry or upset over an difference in opinion that's just ridiculous and solves nothing
 
#3
I'm very left leaning btw
:snoopy:

Hm..

First: I suggest you take look at the Leftist library to understand what leaning the left really means.

Second: Careful not to confuse the current research for more inclusion and representation (which is a good thing) in all media, with the bad usage of said inclusion or representation.

Third: To understand why I say that you need to take a closer look at this section of the leftist library:

"
THE DEPOLITICIZATION OF THE POLITICAL KEEPS THE STATUS CO AND OPPRESSIONS ALIVE :

- [THREAD] - Why EVERY Stories are political - IMPORTANT
- [VIDEO] - The problems with the depoliticization of stories and liberal entertainement - Marvel movies - IMPORTANT
-
[VIDEO] - Hollywood is mostly defending the liberal, apolitical and anti-progressist status co - A case study of Marvel's Avengers
- [THREAD] - The problem with the depoliticization of public spaces - Case study : This Forum and the Next Nakama thread
-
[VIDEO] - Woke : The problem with activist characters in media
"

I suggest you add those ressources (but they are optional, its just to understand the political context behind it):

"
LIBERALISM LEADS TO INEQUALITIES AND OPPRESSIONS

- [VIDEO] - What is liberalism and why it has NOTHING to do with the fact of being "woke" - IMPORTANT
- [VIDEO] - Leftism VS Liberalism or why liberalism is NOT leftism
- [ARTICLE] - Liberals, from a leftist point of view
"

After that, you should be understanding why you feel that there is something wrong with some fictions and not so much in others.

@Uncle Van @AL sama Can you move this thread in the sensitive section please ? It will get political and this is an interesting conversation to have !
 
#4
:snoopy:

Hm..

First: I suggest you take look at the Leftist library to understand what leaning the left really means.

Second: Careful not to confuse the current research for more inclusion and representation (which is a good thing) in all media, with the bad usage of said inclusion or representation.

Third: To understand why I say that you need to take a closer look at this section of the leftist library:

"
THE DEPOLITICIZATION OF THE POLITICAL KEEPS THE STATUS CO AND OPPRESSIONS ALIVE :

- [THREAD] - Why EVERY Stories are political - IMPORTANT
- [VIDEO] - The problems with the depoliticization of stories and liberal entertainement - Marvel movies - IMPORTANT
-
[VIDEO] - Hollywood is mostly defending the liberal, apolitical and anti-progressist status co - A case study of Marvel's Avengers
- [THREAD] - The problem with the depoliticization of public spaces - Case study : This Forum and the Next Nakama thread
-
[VIDEO] - Woke : The problem with activist characters in media
"

I suggest you add those ressources (but they are optional, its just to understand the political context behind it):

"
LIBERALISM LEADS TO INEQUALITIES AND OPPRESSIONS

- [VIDEO] - What is liberalism and why it has NOTHING to do with the fact of being "woke" - IMPORTANT
- [VIDEO] - Leftism VS Liberalism or why liberalism is NOT leftism
- [ARTICLE] - Liberals, from a leftist point of view
"

After that, you should be understanding why you feel that there is something wrong with some fictions and not so much in others.

@Uncle Van @AL sama Can you move this thread in the sensitive section please ? It will get political and this is an interesting conversation to have !
the main problem with all of this is that i understand why it's important

or why it's good for society, i get that

but at the same time, i'm watching these things for entertainment purposes, i watch / play / read them for fun and escapism

whenever a project like this is more focused on making a political point, i get pulled out from the story and brought back into reality

which makes me dislike it

it's as simple as that
 
#6
A great example is Deadpool and Wolverine

just a great fun movie, full of fucking jokes left and right, brainless movie

pretty stupid and dumb plot, i get the low score of the critics

and still, it's the best time i've had watching a super hero movie in fucking ages
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What do you think about it Pero?
 

CoC: Color of Clowns

Force Choke the Chicken
#8
Forced diversity is discrimination in many situations.

It's discriminating against someone for not being different.

Also earlier media just handled shit better.

Look at the original Teen Titans cartoon, then the live action. The cartoon is more serious, even though it's much more cheerful, bright, vibrant, and fun, because it isn't a stupid edgefest designed to be "different".

It's the difference between Picasso and drawing a banana on a frame and calling it a Masterpiece.

Picasso is a freaky genius, a lot of modern Hollywood stuff is just dumb weird art pretending to be sophisticated.

Diversity isn't the problem:

Shitty artists using diversity as a scapegoat for their work, and shaming anyone who calls them out for it, are the problem.
 
#9
My go to example in the MCU is captain marvel and iron man. Iron Man has a character arc. He goes from arrogant asshole who mistreats the people around him to someone who actually learnt the error of his ways and tries to do the right thing by becoming a hero and stop the creation of weapons. What is captain marvels character arc? I genuinely don’t know. The movie doesn’t really do a good job at establishing it.
 

Doggo

Welcome to the House of Hope
#10
You KINDA answered it yourself.

These movies, IPs were heavily catered towards men. Now it isn't.
"beauty" patterns change over time. This is extremely normal. the 80s had a lot of big muscle action hero actors. Now it's more twink like? Ok.
K-POP influence over the last years helped a lot to achieve this. Soft power at its finest.
There's no "hijack" because men aren't "entitled" to these IPs.
The companies are trying to make money. If it stops earning them money, they will change their approach.
No huge conspiracy or whatever.
 
#11
You KINDA answered it yourself.

These movies, IPs were heavily catered towards men. Now it isn't.
"beauty" patterns change over time. This is extremely normal. the 80s had a lot of big muscle action hero actors. Now it's more twink like? Ok.
K-POP influence over the last years helped a lot to achieve this. Soft power at its finest.
There's no "hijack" because men aren't "entitled" to these IPs.
The companies are trying to make money. If it stops earning them money, they will change their approach.
No huge conspiracy or whatever.
Tbf Doggo we’ve literally seen companies waste money doing this model, so idk if it’s enough to say if it stops earning them money they will change
 
#12
whenever a project like this is more focused on making a political point, i get pulled out from the story and brought back into reality
I understand, I sometime gets that feeling too. Usually, there are three reasons for that:

- Either the writer doesn't know how to write without sounding preachy and the narration is overflowned by political message that have no dramatical relevancy

Or

- The fiction was written by a liberal progressist that doesn't really understand the subject they are talking about.


Or

- Its our biases talking. Inclusivity and strong representation is quite a new thing is today's fictionnal hollywoodian world. This means that we are still not adapted to it and we have conservative biases against it. This means that EVEN when said representation are good and well done... if the story is bad, our mind tend to attribute the failing of those stories to the political choices behind the choice of representation or inclusions.

But let's make a thing clear even if you didn't make this point. It wasn't better before. The writing of fictionnal pieces of media was for the most part quite problematics (and still is in some aspect) for boyz included. Also, you have talked here about example that are not really pertinent, especially the case of Dune which is one of the best political story that was produced by hollywood in the last decade.

I think you are falling for your biases. A LOT of movie are still portraying strong charismatic men characters, just like in the 80's. Simply now, women have more representation and men with less heteronormative virility are put also under the spotlight (as they should).


Look what they turned Thor into, just to make Jane look badass and competent beside him in Love and Thunder
This is not the best example. Thor, in this movie, shine just as bright as Jane.

Even if in this case, this is not the best writing.

That's right, a feminist activist known for making documentaries against men and the patriarchy.
You do not sound like a leftist at all here.

Hiring a woman to write a feminist woman is actually the best idea in my opinion. Especially if said woman needs to talk about an organization that is known to be pretty shady in term of its patriarcal values and imperialism.


This director has 0 experience making anything in fiction / action / fantasy / scifi, literally nothing.
Now, this is a fair point. No need to talk about her activism or the fact that she is a woman.


Forced diversity is discrimination in many situations.
No its not.


Picasso is a freaky genius
He was also a rapist and an a**hole. really not the best example here, especially when the point is about the fight against systemic racism and patriarchy through more inclusive and representative stories.
 

CoC: Color of Clowns

Force Choke the Chicken
#13
It’s an issue with bad writing. There had been plenty of “diverse” shows that everybody enjoys because is done well. We only tend to notice the bad stuff cause it sticks out badly
Into the Spider-Verse is complete proof to me that people love diversity, they just want to be treated with respect.

If you treat your audience like they're all bigots who need to be talked down to, guess what's going to happen?

I have no other way to say this, it feels like some people in Hollywood want to make films designed to shit on straight men, then wonder why they don't like them.

Recent Thor movie felt like that. Honestly, just in general, they never let Thor get any wins, LOL. Pretty much always Cap and Iron Man.

I feel Oda generally does a great job of pushing diversity without it being too cringey (sometimes it is). I like characters like Luffy and Zoro who can get along with pretty much anybody, as long as they're an at least somewhat decent person.
 
#15
Into the Spider-Verse is complete proof to me that people love diversity, they just want to be treated with respect.

If you treat your audience like they're all bigots who need to be talked down to, guess what's going to happen?

I have no other way to say this, it feels like some people in Hollywood want to make films designed to shit on straight men, then wonder why they don't like them.

Recent Thor movie felt like that. Honestly, just in general, they never let Thor get any wins, LOL. Pretty much always Cap and Iron Man.

I feel Oda generally does a great job of pushing diversity without it being too cringey (sometimes it is). I like characters like Luffy and Zoro who can get along with pretty much anybody, as long as they're an at least somewhat decent person.
I’ll be honest, I didn’t watch the last Thor movie so I can’t really comment on it but I get it. It does sometime feels like Hollywood wants to emasculate men or make them all look like idiots.

sometimes I do watch stuff that makes me think “do the writers have some kind of issue with men” lol
 
#17
I’ll be honest, I didn’t watch the last Thor movie so I can’t really comment on it but I get it. It does sometime feels like Hollywood wants to emasculate men or make them all look like idiots.

sometimes I do watch stuff that makes me think “do the writers have some kind of issue with men” lol
Don't watch it, it's really trash

action is bad, jokes are bad, the main character is turned into an idiot that does nothing, while all the women around him are made to be perfect and the real heroes
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A LOT of movie are still portraying strong charismatic men characters, just like in the 80's.
Can you please list them?

characters like it, that men enjoy, not women
 

Doggo

Welcome to the House of Hope
#18
Tbf Doggo we’ve literally seen companies waste money doing this model, so idk if it’s enough to say if it stops earning them money they will change
The money doesnt come just from the direct revenue a movie earns.
These huge corporations care a lot about their public perception.
How many companies we have today putting rainbow flags on their logos for pride month but were putting a very different symbol in the 30-40s? If you know what I mean.
Rebranding happens all the time.
 
#20
I have no other way to say this, it feels like some people in Hollywood want to make films designed to shit on straight men
It does sometime feels like Hollywood wants to emasculate men or make them all look like idiots.

sometimes I do watch stuff that makes me think “do the writers have some kind of issue with men”
I think this is the sentiment i'm trying to get at

it feels like a hatred torwards men

franchises that used to be for men, need to be fixed, changed, but things that are made for women, can keep doing whatever they were doing
 
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