Controversial The hijacking of western entertainment made for men

[Logiko]

Because that's not what Star Wars is...

Star Wars is supposed to be antifascist and anti-imperialist. There is nothing more leftist than that. So adding anti patriarcal to that is really not stupid.

I have no other way to say this, it feels like some people in Hollywood want to make films designed to shit on straight men, then wonder why they don't like them.

Because most hollywoodian movies are produced not by leftist (who understand the real issues behind the importance of representation and inclusivity) but by liberals. Who are just using progressism as a way to attract more spectators.

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- [VIDEO] - The problems with the depoliticization of stories and liberal entertainement - Marvel movies - IMPORTANT

It does sometime feels like Hollywood wants to emasculate men or make them all look like idiots.

No they don't, don't worry about that. Unless you believe that being a men means being ultra virilist, toxic with women, rich, non emotionnal, always in power and control and build like a mountain.. so in this case, yeah, maybe worry about it lol

Can you please list them?

A lot of marvel movies :

- Captain America
- Iron Man
- Thor (still charismatic even when funny)
- Doctor Strange
- Black Panther the first
- Dead Pool
- Loki
- Starlord of the Guardians of the Galaxy


In Disney and others :
- Andor (and many character in it)
- Doctor Who
- John Wick
- Din Djarin from the Mandalorian
- Indiana Jones
- The Bad Boyz
- Superman and Batman or even Aquaman from DC
- Ethan Hunt from Mission Impossible
- Neo from the Matrix

Etc. Etc.

There are plenty mate.

 

[Indigo]

A lot of marvel movies :

- Captain America
- Iron Man
- Thor (still charismatic even when funny)
- Doctor Strange
- Black Panther the first
- Dead Pool
- Loki
- Starlord of the Guardians of the Galaxy


In Disney and others :
- Andor (and many character in it)
- Doctor Who
- John Wick
- Din Djarin from the Mandalorian
- Indiana Jones
- The Bad Boyz
- Superman and Batman or even Aquaman from DC
- Ethan Hunt from Mission Impossible
- Neo from the Matrix

Etc. Etc.

There are plenty mate.

Thor has become a fucking idiot to propel Jane in the movie

Captain America is retired and Iron Man is dead, Iron Man is now being replaced with Iron Heart and Captain America with Sam Falcon

Doctor Strange became a really shitty character in his own movie, to propel Wanda and America Chavez

Black Panther was great, unfortunately Chadwick Boseman passed away, and his mantle was passed to Shuri and Black Panther 2 was focused on the stories of 5 women, with the only important guy being the villain, who is also a minority

Deadpool and Loki are great, no problems there. However, Loki got a female variant of himself in his own shown to be more compentent than him at the entire thing. She had stronger magic, fought better and was always ahead of him. Of course, Loki fell in live with his own female version.

Doctor Who, became a woman and now a black man

John Wick is great, but they really should keep this dude dead at this point

Din Djarin was great for S1 and S2, now in S3 he became Bo-Katan Kryze's lap dog, he gets caught in a trap and saved by Bo-Katan, who then claims the saber he couldn't use. Once again, another woman being put as super competent alongside the dude failing in a project that used to be loved by male audiences.

Indiana Jones was also put alongside a competent young woman, and made him look like an old fool in his latest movie.

Haven't watched Bad Boyz.

Neo is from before all of this lmao.

In fact, the new Matrix 4 that was made was really fucking bad.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

"beauty" patterns change over time. This is extremely normal. the 80s had a lot of big muscle action hero actors. Now it's more twink like? Ok.

It's the same for female characters really, old movies had mostly the same looking kind of actresses and repetitive roles, playing second fiddle next to the male lead etc and always attractive to the male gaze. Which I personally had severe issues with growing up. Romance stuff was never my cup of tea which I think is the reason why...

There were women who enjoyed them too, that's 100% true, but they enjoyed it back then as it was, even if they weren't the target audience and i think that's great.

Those movies made today want women as their target audience. I kinda can see your side too and men feeling that something is 'stolen' from them after all those years of content being near exclusively catered to them.
Main issue imho is people developed an emotional dependency on multimillion dollar companies expecting the companies to provide them with stories, the problem being those stories are made for monetary profit and the companies don't care about your, mine or anyone else's happiness. Hoping to find your escape from real life and politics etc in something that's produced in the same manner as all commodities and by the same types of people that make real life so depressing sometimes doesn't really work.
I'm not trying to diss you or anything but how about you look a bit further than the usual mainstream US productions? Watch something from other countries or lesser known filmmakers / authors ? Or enjoy some older movies? IMHO if you are upset with the stories others write what stops you from making your own stories?

 

[Roo]

No they don't, don't worry about that. Unless you believe that being a men means being ultra virilist, toxic with women, rich, non emotionnal, always in power and control and build like a mountain.. so in this case, yeah, maybe worry about it lol

Why does it have to be the most over the top type of men lol

 

[Indigo]

I'm not trying to diss you or anything but how about you look a bit further than the usual mainstream US productions? Watch something from other countries or lesser known filmmakers / authors ? Or enjoy some older movies? IMHO if you are upset with the stories others write what stops you from making your own stories?

I do that all the time. And i enjoy all of that.

I just miss enjoying the new stuff too.

After the joy of watching Deadpool and Wolverine this last week, i noticed how much it used to be some years ago.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

but things that are made for women, can keep doing whatever they were doing

Not really. The movies you just described are made for women. Romance and erotic novels have also changed (I guess)

Unless you believe that being a men means being ultra virilist, toxic with women, rich, non emotionnal, always in power and control and build like a mountain.. so in this case, yeah, maybe worry about it lol

That's funny this post reminds me of the opening scene in one of those Roman movies I forgot which. The scene where the guy is hounded by his ex/one night stand(s) because he's left her alone with the kids. His male friends also comment on how this guy has an uncountable number of "bastard" children walking around town. The scene is supposed to be light hearted / funny /silly and depicts the guy as particularly manly and virile.
If being a deadbeat and adulterer is the preferred type of male character then good night humankind 🙃

 

[Indigo]

considering some of the latest decisions though

i'm hopeful things are about to change

 

[Logiko]

Thor has become a fucking idiot to propel Jane in the movie

For you maybe, I still find him very charismatic even if he is an idiot sometimes.

Captain America is retired and Iron Man is dead, Iron Man is now being replaced with Iron Heart and Captain America with Sam Falcon

So, replaced by another strong charismatic guy.

Doctor Strange became a really shitty character in his own movie, to propel Wanda and America Chavez

That's the point of a character arc mate. Strong charismatic men are not supposed to be all gentle.

Again, you discard nothing here.

Black Panther was great, unfortunately Chadwick Boseman passed away, and his mantle was passed to Shuri and Black Panther 2 was focused on the stories of 5 women, with the only important guy being the villain, who is also a minority

And ? That was the logical continuation of the story. Nothing wrong with that. Black Pather 2 was actually a pretty good Marvel.

Deadpool and Loki are great, no problems there. However, Loki got a female variant of himself in his own shown to be more compentent than him at the entire thing.

That's called an antagonist. Antagonists are supposed to be better than the characters. If that wasn't the case, there would be no stories. Yeah. What's your point ? Women in fiction = bad ?

You are doing the exact opposite of a leftist argumentation here if you udnerstand what I mean.

Doctor Who, became a woman and now a black man

And ? Very charismatic women and very charismatic black man.

Din Djarin was great for S1 and S2, now in S3 he became Bo-Katan Kryze's lap dog, he gets caught in a trap and saved by Bo-Katan, who then claims the saber he couldn't use. Once again, another woman being put as super competent alongside the dude failing in a project that used to be loved by male audiences.

So again your point is that women in fiction = bad ? You can't stand a woman being as competent as a man ?

Don't call yourself leftist-leaning anymore mate.

Indiana Jones was also put alongside a competent young woman, and made him look like an old fool in his latest movie.

Still charismatic

Why does it have to be the most over the top type of men lol

Seems like that's what the guy wants..

For me those are strong charismatic men:

Positive masculinity is not synonimous of boredom. Do you feel like Luffy is boring ?
I guess not, and yet, he is an amazing representation of positive masculinity.

Being a good man doesn't mean that you can get emotional, angry or bland. Being a good mate, no, being a great man is being able to be all of that and stay a positive representation of what masculinity is.

Andrew Tates is the opposite of that. He is not only bad, but he is a bad representation, he is close minded, he believes in a mindset that can only bring you to hurt yourself.

If you want good example of masculinities here are some:

There is no boredom in positive masculinity.

Positive masculinity is an amazing way to act in life.

But it seems like this guys is nostalgic of those ones:

(Notice the male gaze here)

 

[Roo]

For you maybe, I still find him very charismatic even if he is an idiot sometimes.



So, replaced by another strong charismatic guy.





That's the point of a character arc mate. Strong charismatic men are not supposed to be all gentle.

Again, you discard nothing here.



And ? That was the logical continuation of the story. Nothing wrong with that. Black Pather 2 was actually a pretty good Marvel.



That's called an antagonist. Antagonists are supposed to be better than the characters. If that wasn't the case, there would be no stories. Yeah. What's your point ? Women in fiction = bad ?

You are doing the exact opposite of a leftist argumentation here if you udnerstand what I mean.


And ? Very charismatic women and very charismatic black man.



So again your point is that women in fiction = bad ? You can't stand a woman being as competent as a man ?

Don't call yourself leftist-leaning anymore mate.



Still charismatic



Seems like that's what the guy wants..

For me those are strong charismatic men:




But it seems like this guys is nostalgic of those ones:

I mean those guys can also be positively masculine no? Why are we saying muscular men are bad lol

also bobby d’s character in taxi driver is probably one of the best written characters ever. Just because he’s a toxic mess doesn’t mean he’s not well written. I thought this thread was about character writing

 

[Indigo]

For you maybe, I still find him very charismatic even if he is an idiot sometimes.



So, replaced by another strong charismatic guy.





That's the point of a character arc mate. Strong charismatic men are not supposed to be all gentle.

Again, you discard nothing here.



And ? That was the logical continuation of the story. Nothing wrong with that. Black Pather 2 was actually a pretty good Marvel.



That's called an antagonist. Antagonists are supposed to be better than the characters. If that wasn't the case, there would be no stories. Yeah. What's your point ? Women in fiction = bad ?

You are doing the exact opposite of a leftist argumentation here if you udnerstand what I mean.


And ? Very charismatic women and very charismatic black man.



So again your point is that women in fiction = bad ? You can't stand a woman being as competent as a man ?

Don't call yourself leftist-leaning anymore mate.



Still charismatic



Seems like that's what the guy wants..

For me those are strong charismatic men:




But it seems like this guys is nostalgic of those ones:

(Notice the male gaze here)

i'm actually not a fan of any of these

watched the Rocky series two years ago, and it was fine

but not a huge fan

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

but things that are made for women, can keep doing whatever they were doing

Not really. The movies you just described are made for women. Romance and erotic novels have also changed (I guess)

Unless you believe that being a men means being ultra virilist, toxic with women, rich, non emotionnal, always in power and control and build like a mountain.. so in this case, yeah, maybe worry about it lol

That's funny this post reminds me of the opening scene in one of those Roman movies I forgot which. The scene where the guy is hounded by his ex/one night stand(s) because he's left her alone with the kids. His male friends also comment on how this guy has an uncountable number of "bastard" children walking around town. The scene is supposed to be light hearted / funny /silly and depicts the guy as particularly manly and virile.
If being a deadbeat and adulterer is the preferred type of male character then good night humankind 🙃

Notice the male gaze here)

Notice the steroid abuse

Positive masculinity is not synonimous of boredom. Do you feel like Luffy is boring ?
I guess not, and yet, he is an amazing representation of positive masculinity.

Being a good man doesn't mean that you can get emotional, angry or bland. Being a good mate, no, being a great man is being able to be all of that and stay a positive representation of what masculinity is.

Andrew Tates is the opposite of that. He is not only bad, but he is a bad representation, he is close minded, he believes in a mindset that can only bring you to hurt yourself.

If you want good example of masculinities here are some:

There is no boredom in positive masculinity.

Positive masculinity is an amazing way to act in life.

That's really one area where I have to give Oda credit, he does shit on female characters to no end but exploring a variety of representations of manliness is something he's really good at. He even makes his tough guys cry like toddlers.

 

[Logiko]

I mean those guys can also be positively masculine no? Why are we saying muscular men are bad lol

The problem is that yes, that could be positively masculine, but that's not their character traits. Their character traits is violence. The resolution of problem through violence specifically.

SOme of those character are cool, but we can't simple say that because today's representation of men are less virilistic and less encline to promote violence.. that's its a problem.

Its not. Its actually the solution. as always,

Again people... if you think things were better before, let me take you as always into the amazing world of the toxic masculinity of older movies:

i'm actually not a fan of any of these

watched the Rocky series two years ago, and it was fine

but not a huge fan

Ok, so what type of character are you nostalgic about ? What type of charismatic 80's and 90's fictionnal media are you talking about ?

That's really one area where I have to give Oda credit, he does shit on female characters to no end but exploring a variety of representations of manliness is something he's really good at. He even makes his tough guys cry like toddlers.

The only problem with women in One Piece is the lack of representation and male gaze, not the actual representations of said women.

Women in One Piece have ALL exceptionnal stories.

 

[Roo]

The problem is that yes, that could be positively masculine, but that's not their character traits. Their character traits is violence. The resolution of problem through violence specifically.

SOme of those character are cool, but we can't simple say that because today's representation of men are less virilistic and less encline to promote violence.. that's its a problem.

Its not. Its actually the solution. as always,

Violence is fun, you’re literally in a forum where 99% of the arcs conflict is resolved with violence. There’s no denying that is a thing humans as a whole enjoy.

 

[Indigo]

Ok, so what type of character are you nostalgic about ? What type of charismatic 80's and 90's fictionnal media are you talking about ?

I never said i like 80s and 90s specifically, you guys injected that into the discussion

i was talking mostly about the last 5 years

some of my favorites are from the 2000s and 2010s

like Captain Jack Sparrow, most men in Lord of the Rings, The Dark Knight trilogy, most of the MCU until Endgame, Star Wars OT and PT, god i miss old Luke Skywalker, all the X-Men movies with Wolverine, Magneto and Xavier, all great male characters

my favorite male character by far, especially thanks to newer games and character arc surprisingly, is Kratos for sure

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Again people... if you think things were better before, let me take you as always into the amazing world of the toxic masculinity of older movies

That's funny I watched a review video of 50 shades of gray some days ago and the guy pointed out how toxic the depicted relationships are and that they romanticise abuse. This movie targets a female audience.

 

[Indigo]

some dudes from TV shows i like Elliot Alderson, Ragnar Lothbrok, Walter White, Michael Scofield, Daredevil and The Punisher in Netflix shows.

I really enjoy dudes who are super capable and smart, and get shit done.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Violence is fun, you’re literally in a forum where 99% of the arcs conflict is resolved with violence. There’s no denying that is a thing humans as a whole enjoy.

Yes we need more female characters that use violence and less damsels in distress.

 

[Indigo]

Walter White and Ragnar are both pieces of shit, but they are super entertaining

Post automatically merged: Aug 1, 2024

let me take you as always into the amazing world of the toxic masculinity of older movies

i don't care

as long as they used to actually be enjoyable to watch

if you want to make a movie with 0 things problematic, great

make it entertaining, but no, most of the time they are super boring

too focused on being correct and being inclusive, they don't make an actual good product

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

i don't care

as long as they used to actually be enjoyable to watch

if you want to make a movie with 0 things problematic, great

Toxic masculinity in old movies is not treated as a problem within the movie. It was the norm

 

[Indigo]

That's funny I watched a review video of 50 shades of gray some days ago and the guy pointed out how toxic the depicted relationships are and that they romanticise abuse. This movie targets a female audience.

Women love this stuff

the forbidden love with the bad boy who is bad for you

a toxic fantasy, yet nobody wants to change that, because it's for women

you've seen this fantasy time and time again

in Twilight

in 50 shades

recently in the sequel trilogy, there were a bunch of Rey + Kylo fans, who wanted them to end together, despite the dude being a mass killer

women love this fantasy