Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

nah bro, i just say man/woman are defined by sex

And that's why I say that you are wrong, since you are looking at the definition of dictionnaries that don't take the scientific consensus into account.

And this consensus will always be superior in reliability and value to dictionnaries. No matter the context.

And no, that's not apples and oranges.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

And so Logiko (not) very subtly reintroduced his favourite topic, the core of every politican discussion: transexuals.

 

[Zenos7]

And that's why I say that you are wrong, since you are looking at the definition of dictionnaries that don't take the scientific consensus into account.

And this consensus will always be superior in reliability and value to dictionnaries. No matter the context.

And no, that's not apples and oranges.

it is apples and oranges. scientific consensus doesnt change how a word is used and/or defined.

Post automatically merged: Aug 15, 2024

And so Logiko (not) very subtly reintroduced his favourite topic, the core of every politican discussion: transexuals.

he has to call us bigots after all.

 

[AL sama]

it is apples and oranges. scientific consensus doesnt change how a word is used and/or defined.

I mean we don't say H2O instead o water

 

[Zenos7]

I mean we don't say H2O instead o water

h2o is water, but not all water is h2o.

 

[Logiko]

And so Logiko (not) very subtly reintroduced his favourite topic, the core of every politican discussion: transexuals.

Just so you know. Trans people don't really like the word "transexual" as it was a word used by psychiatric institution a long time ago, to explain how they were mentally ill

it is apples and oranges. scientific consensus doesnt change how a word is used and/or defined.

Not necessarily indeed. But the fact that you are using a word, doesn't necessarily means that you are using it the right way. Dictionnaries are here to to note or rather should always be here to register the usage AND the scientific definition of words.

Problem, they sometimes do once without doing the other.

Dictionnaries are simply not reliable.

If you want to udnerstand the usage of a word : Go ask linguistic.
If you want to understand the scientific (and there more accurate) definition of a word : Go for encyclopedia or scientific definitions such as official sites or scientific journals.

Problem, when I'm rectifying the usage of words on this thread, it's because the usage are going AGAINST:

- The scientific definition and therefore the more accurate definition of the words
AND
- The healthy condition of some person.

Hence why I'm correcting you and telling you that you must not use dictionnary definition that are registring oppressing usages but scientific ones that take the life and legitimity of people into account.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

Just so you know. Trans people don't really like the word "transexual" as it was a word used by psychiatric institution a long time ago, to explain how they were mentally ill

Yes I know, you have already told me.

 

[Logiko]

Yes I know, you have already told me.

So you are using an oppressive term on purpose ?

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

So you are using an oppressive term on purpose ?

People in woke enviroments have this kink where they must have you change your vocabulary every 10/15 years, I don't really like it so I just ignore it.

 

[Logiko]

People in woke enviroments have this kink where they must have you change your vocabulary every 10/15 years, I don't really like it so I just ignore it.

So you are using an oppressive term on purpose..

At least you are honest about it

 

[Zenos7]

Just so you know. Trans people don't really like the word "transexual" as it was a word used by psychiatric institution a long time ago, to explain how they were mentally ill



Not necessarily indeed. But the fact that you are using a word, doesn't necessarily means that you are using it the right way. Dictionnaries are here to to note or rather should always be here to register the usage AND the scientific definition of words.

Problem, they sometimes do once without doing the other.

Dictionnaries are simply not reliable.

If you want to udnerstand the usage of a word : Go ask linguistic.
If you want to understand the scientific (and there more accurate) definition of a word : Go for encyclopedia or scientific definitions such as official sites or scientific journals.

Problem, when I'm rectifying the usage of words on this thread, it's because the usage are going AGAINST:

- The scientific definition and therefore the more accurate definition of the words
AND
- The healthy condition of some person.

Hence why I'm correcting you and telling you that you must not use dictionnary definition that are registring oppressing usages but scientific ones that take the life and legitimity of people into account.

compiling dictionaries is kind of a field in linguistics though.

so if i want to understand the usage of a word, i go look it up in a dictionary. or how do you think people learn new languages lmfao?

woman is not a scientific word per se. female is though. and woman as of now is defined by that.

if the word evolves to your meaning, dictionaries will adapt. but since, again, no one but a small minority is using it differently to "adult human female", the definition isnt updated.

which is why i told you like a hundred times now, hit us up if dictionaries update it to your definition. not that you have a working definition though.

but whatevs, we arent going to agree on this. using words as they are actually defined is how language is coherent and works.


so besides this, what exactly do you mean by "the healthy condition of some person"?

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

So you are using an oppressive term on purpose..

At least you are honest about it

I also feel oppressed when they try to force me to change the terms they made up 15 years before, so in the end it evens out.

 

[Zenos7]

Just so you know. Trans people don't really like the word "transexual" as it was a word used by psychiatric institution a long time ago, to explain how they were mentally ill

just like they dont like the term gender identity disorder because of the negative connotation of "disorder". so the term "gender dysphoria" was created, but it still kinda means the same thing, just without the stigma.

Post automatically merged: Aug 15, 2024

I also feel oppressed when they try to force me to change the terms they made up 15 years before, so in the end it evens out.

if "woman" will stop being defined as "adult human female" and turns into some circular gender based garbage, i will stop using it altogether.

 

[Peroroncino]

People in woke enviroments have this kink where they must have you change your vocabulary every 10/15 years, I don't really like it so I just ignore it.

based

 

[Logiko]

so besides this, what exactly do you mean by "the healthy condition of some person"?

By healthy condition of some person, I mean no potential sufferings.

just without the stigma.

Indeed. The stigma makes the difference because said stigma can ALWAYS be used against them.

compiling dictionaries is kind of a field in linguistics though.

Not where I live no. But it could be for other country yes. And maybe it could create better results.

or how do you think people learn new languages lmfao?

By studying linguistic or going into classes to learn those new language. You can't learn a language just by reciting dictionnaries, you need to understand the context in which to uses words and learn that sometimes, some usage are better than others.

woman is not a scientific word per se. female is though. and woman as of now is defined by that.

Women IS a scientific word in the sence that it is recognized sociologically as a gender by human sciences.

I gave you plenty of ressource demonstrating just that. Now either you accept them or you don't. If you want to deny science, you are welcome, that would simply not be with my help.

if the word evolves to your meaning, dictionaries will adapt. but since, again, no one but a small minority is using it differently to "adult human female", the definition isnt updated.

Its "does not evolve to my meaning". Its already used to study what I'm talking about and to talk about the subject I'm talking about to understand the subject I'm talking about.

You are simply REFUSING to accept the distinction between sex and gender. For no reason. unless you tell me that you have problem accepting

that transwomen are women and trans men are men and then.. it would make perfect sence.

hit us up if dictionaries update it to your definition

Like I said, Dictionnaries are not here to tell you what is right or wrong to use, they are here to tell you the usage of the words. Usage is a LINGUISTIC concept, it means "how the words are used in society".

It does not say that said or said usage are legitimate or not, it simply register the usages (most of the time too late and with not enough precisions)

So, no. I won't "hit you up with an updated definition" since it wouldn't tell you what is the legitimate or illegitimate usage of a word in a certain context.

Currentlty.. again.. for the 1000th times, I'm telling you that the LEGITIMATE usage is the usage that does NOT create oppression against Trans people.

In other word, the legitimate usage is the scientific usage and definition of the words men, women, female and males.

But sure.. if you want to use a usage that creates oppression, you can. But you will have me telling you constantly that your usage of the word is perfectly illegitimate from a scientific and ethical point of view.

Your choice

I also feel oppressed when they try to force me to change the terms they made up 15 years before, so in the end it evens out.

Sure, it must be hard to live your life.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Why are the only topics ever discussed in this thread Religion and Transgenderism?

 

[Logiko]

Why are the only topics ever discussed in this thread Religion and Transgenderism?

Because they are topics that are at the center of political conflicts.

If I want to know if a person is on my side I just need to ask two questions about Transidentity and meritocracy and its enough !

I would theorize that this way :

In politic there are various small political conflicts that put values against values that can be independant.

BUT

Certain political conflicts can be linked directly to others. For example, if you fight for the right of Trans people (since its the most conflictual subject that usually separate conservatist from progressists) I know from experience that there will be a HIGH probability that you will be aware of activism against heteronormativity, patriarchy, systemic racism and anti-validism.

On the other hand, if I know that you fight against meritocracy, I know from experience that most of your belief system will be directed against capitalism and toward a radical vision of leftism.

In other word, I use the first question to see if you are a progressist or a conservatist and I use the second question to know the degree of radicality of your progressism/leftism.

This won't be a perfect estimation, but it will be good enough to know that we have interest in common..

 

[NAMELESS]

Too late. As of now, about 25% of all houses in the US are owned by corporations and investment firms. Every economic downturn is gonna flip the scale towards the rich as the poor are forced to sell their homes to stay afloat.

I thought America was the land of opportunities.

 

[Uncle Van]

I thought America was the land of opportunities.

It is. Lots of opportunities to fail.

 

[Zenos7]

By studying linguistic or going into classes to learn those new language. You can't learn a language just by reciting dictionnaries, you need to understand the context in which to uses words and learn that sometimes, some usage are better than others.

whcih dictionaries also do. they give multiple meanings for different contexts. example sentences as well. obviously you also need to learn some grammar, but to the learn what the words mean, dictionaries are the way to go. . . .

By healthy condition of some person, I mean no potential sufferings.

elaborate. i still dont see how this plays into how words are used and defined

Post automatically merged: Aug 16, 2024

Women IS a scientific word in the sence that it is recognized sociologically as a gender by human sciences.

I gave you plenty of ressource demonstrating just that. Now either you accept them or you don't. If you want to deny science, you are welcome, that would simply not be with my help.

well in colloquial terms outside of sociology, its an adult human female. cry me a river

Post automatically merged: Aug 16, 2024

Indeed. The stigma makes the difference because said stigma can ALWAYS be used against them.

but its still basically a disorder, they are just calling it differently. . . .

Post automatically merged: Aug 16, 2024

But sure.. if you want to use a usage that creates oppression, you can.

it doesnt necessarily create oppression.

Your choice

not like i care about what you say anyway.

Post automatically merged: Aug 16, 2024

Currentlty.. again.. for the 1000th times, I'm telling you that the LEGITIMATE usage is the usage that does NOT create oppression against Trans people.

In other word, the legitimate usage is the scientific usage and definition of the words men, women, female and males.

bruh, the legitimate usage is how the word is actually defined and used by people. if we dont use language this way, we can stop using language altogether, it becomes meaningless.

and there is still no working definition based on gender identity.