Bougya It's time to fully admit this
- Thread starter JoNdule
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And people say I am the one that is slandering Shanks around these forums. Forgetting the fact the only reason in-universe anybody even knows who "God King" Shanks (besides being Rogers cabin boy) is the fact he used to be Mihawks rival?
Btw, while I am reminding you of stuff you should know about already, did you not make a theory like one or two months ago about how Big Mom was secretly the one that crushed Mihawks TOTALLY real dream about becoming Pirate King? Aint she a top tier?
Btw, while I am reminding you of stuff you should know about already, did you not make a theory like one or two months ago about how Big Mom was secretly the one that crushed Mihawks TOTALLY real dream about becoming Pirate King? Aint she a top tier?
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While I agree with you that Zoro's dream has been treated extremely poorly by Oda in so many ways, I don't understand why Zoro's the only one consistently criticized in the dream aspect as pretty much all the Straw Hats dream weren't handled well at all, and in many ways worse than Zoro's. Even Luffy's Pirate King dream has some big problems with it, though the treatment it gets is the best out of any other Straw Hat.
Cause Zoro’s dream is directly powerscaled related so people shit on it for that reason.
I think objectively speaking the best treated dreams are, in order, Luffy, Robin and Zoro’s, because they are the ones that get constant progression. Every fight Zoro has is a step towards his dream. Whatever complaints people have about it (justified or not) they do all at least serve to tangible steps in Zoro pushing forward to achieve his dream.
For a Zoro Sanji comparison, Zoro getting a new sword and unlocking KoH in Wano >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanji not even getting a hint or a mention of All Blue in WCI, an island run by the food aesthetic Yonko. Now that, is what genuinely terribly treatment of a dream looks like.
I think objectively speaking the best treated dreams are, in order, Luffy, Robin and Zoro’s, because they are the ones that get constant progression. Every fight Zoro has is a step towards his dream. Whatever complaints people have about it (justified or not) they do all at least serve to tangible steps in Zoro pushing forward to achieve his dream.
For a Zoro Sanji comparison, Zoro getting a new sword and unlocking KoH in Wano >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanji not even getting a hint or a mention of All Blue in WCI, an island run by the food aesthetic Yonko. Now that, is what genuinely terribly treatment of a dream looks like.
I can understand saying that his dream could be handled better but to say is the worst is a straight lie. I can't even remember when was the last time the dream of many of the Straw Hats was mentioned, while Zoro's is constantly highlited whenever he is fighting.
Zoro lacking a rival for his title of WSS is not entirely true either, Tashigi has been a rival so far, the fact that she has constantly been far from Zoro's level does not invalidate this.
And the fact that we haven't met a single swordsman who showed any explicit interest in the title of WSS can be interpreted this way: everyone who fights wants to be as strong as possible to beat their opponents, therefore a swordsman aims to be the strongest of the swordsmen whatever he declares it or not.
Did not understand this. Wano has many plotholes, Mihawk not being there is not one of them.
Zoro lacking a rival for his title of WSS is not entirely true either, Tashigi has been a rival so far, the fact that she has constantly been far from Zoro's level does not invalidate this.
And the fact that we haven't met a single swordsman who showed any explicit interest in the title of WSS can be interpreted this way: everyone who fights wants to be as strong as possible to beat their opponents, therefore a swordsman aims to be the strongest of the swordsmen whatever he declares it or not.
Did not understand this. Wano has many plotholes, Mihawk not being there is not one of them.
Franky, Nami and Brook’s dreams are all the same in that they trundle along in the background, and every new island is a step towards their goal, but without Oda ever focusing on it.
Franky’s is probably best of the three because there can at least be occasional exciting sea moments, and the Sunny will get occasional shine as well as a technical member of the crew.
If I’m rating how the dreams have been treated it’s
1) Luffy, obv.
2) Robin. Poneglyph reveals are quite consistent, always big moments, and the general dream ties into the entire back story
3) Zoro. Always some decent progression. He’ll nearly always get a fight in arcs which will get decent screentime, Oda will throw in new swords for him and powerups to push it forward.
4) Chopper. Shafted in some respects like the SMILES and the giant kids, but we do at least get to see him heal people quite frequently at the end of battles, and he has some stuff like the antidote cures in Wano.
5) Usopp. Was very well done until Dressrosa, completely forgotten since. Hopefully can push back up to what it was before now were in Elbaf, which was basically neck and neck with Zoro as being pretty consistent with each new island.
6) Jinbei. Oda has put a a bit of effort in showing how Jinbei’s tried to get equality for Fishmen, what with him joining the Warlords, and then Luffy, to try and bring down the barriers between the races.
7) Franky. Happens regularly but without much fanfare, has occasional cool moments and as the Sunny is a character in it’s own the two sometimes can meld together.
8) Nami. Franky’s without the cool moments. Can’t remember the last map she‘s drawn. Drawing maps is hard to make exciting.
9) Brook. Tbf, not much that can be done with Brook. After Laugh Tale it’s done, that’s about it. You can swap him and Nami around if you want, not much difference between the two.
10) Sanji. Zero work down towards his. Oda’s never shown Sanji trying to research it, any legends into it, anyone else other than Zeff caring about it. It should 100% have came up in WCI.
Franky’s is probably best of the three because there can at least be occasional exciting sea moments, and the Sunny will get occasional shine as well as a technical member of the crew.
If I’m rating how the dreams have been treated it’s
1) Luffy, obv.
2) Robin. Poneglyph reveals are quite consistent, always big moments, and the general dream ties into the entire back story
3) Zoro. Always some decent progression. He’ll nearly always get a fight in arcs which will get decent screentime, Oda will throw in new swords for him and powerups to push it forward.
4) Chopper. Shafted in some respects like the SMILES and the giant kids, but we do at least get to see him heal people quite frequently at the end of battles, and he has some stuff like the antidote cures in Wano.
5) Usopp. Was very well done until Dressrosa, completely forgotten since. Hopefully can push back up to what it was before now were in Elbaf, which was basically neck and neck with Zoro as being pretty consistent with each new island.
6) Jinbei. Oda has put a a bit of effort in showing how Jinbei’s tried to get equality for Fishmen, what with him joining the Warlords, and then Luffy, to try and bring down the barriers between the races.
7) Franky. Happens regularly but without much fanfare, has occasional cool moments and as the Sunny is a character in it’s own the two sometimes can meld together.
8) Nami. Franky’s without the cool moments. Can’t remember the last map she‘s drawn. Drawing maps is hard to make exciting.
9) Brook. Tbf, not much that can be done with Brook. After Laugh Tale it’s done, that’s about it. You can swap him and Nami around if you want, not much difference between the two.
10) Sanji. Zero work down towards his. Oda’s never shown Sanji trying to research it, any legends into it, anyone else other than Zeff caring about it. It should 100% have came up in WCI.
Tashigi showed interest in beating Zoro and being better than him, since Zoro aims be the WSS, that's enough for her to be in the competition for the title and a rival to Zoro. So far she's been a Pokémon game level rival? It doesn't make her any less of a rival.
I wouldn't call her out like this yet. She was exponentially stronger when she reappears in Punk Hazard, and nothing suggest she won't have an even more impressive growth the next time we meet her. She is just like Koby for Luffy.
I wouldn't call her out like this yet. She was exponentially stronger when she reappears in Punk Hazard, and nothing suggest she won't have an even more impressive growth the next time we meet her. She is just like Koby for Luffy.