General & Others Too strong to get stronger

#1

First up kaido and oden
Imo 20 years ago when they were both coincidentally 39 the 2 were equal with them mastering their abilities to the best of their abilities just right before being able to hit that next level. That being kaido lacking awakening his fruit and oden his blades. As for why they never fully achieved those feats I think it 100% has to do with them just being too strong



Both were limited by their own strength in their own ways. Imo death is the key to both zoan awakening and forging a black blade. Something kaido probably figured out too late and maybe something oden just never learned before dying. It could also have been the case he never felt pushed to do so with him being comfortable in his own strength




We know both fruits and strong enough weapons are capable of having their own personalities and finding users they themselves feel worthy of them. I think it’s through death that they can truly become one with the user if they happen to be fully worthy to embody their will

Like using a fruit doesn’t mean you’re going to master it or having a meito doesn’t mean you’re going to make it black but hey that doesn’t mean that can’t find people capable of using them until they find someone more capable eventually

Imo you need to die in order to achieve zoan awakening but if you’re not truly worthy the fruit either takes over your body or it just moves on to find a new host.
I think black blades involve giving yourself up to the blade aka straight up killing yourself. If worthy you become one with the blade and if not damn…. I also think you can give up less if yourself for lesser gains. That imo tying to zoro’s eyes and shusui

If both lived longer both would have been able to achieve their true potential. Tho tbh kaido might return awakened after his fight with luffy
:handsup:



While not exactly the same because death isn’t a requirement for paramecia awakenings whitebeard and big mom might have also been in a similar situation. Tho tbh more so big mom

With how unnaturally strong they are without their fruits they likely weren’t put in too many situations where they really had to push beyond themselves and their limits
Tho with all of whitebeard’s scars and battles he’s been through throughout the years I do think he had to be awakened. That being what pushed him ahead of characters like big mom, shiki, and kaido and onto Roger’s level

As for big mom nobody really wanted smoke with her and her giant ass crew + territories. Even roger the pirate king himself rather be a bit sneaky and steal a copy of her poneglyph than go through an all out war against her. Probably because it’d just be a pain in the ass lol. Remember even shiki and his fleet were a big deal so I can only imagine trying to invade tottoland being even more annoying

Unironically she might have been deadass to strong and prepared to the point ain’t nobody wanted to deal with fighting her. With her essentially stun locking herself for decades unable to really grow stronger herself. Instead just lowkey getting fat, old, and kinda lazy since she spent so many years just waiting to do shit
Even when she was given opportunities to basically fuck up the balance whether it was getting the giants on her side or germa tech she got fucked over lol

Point is her being too strong and prepared essentially isolating herself accidentally stunted her growth. So instead of getting personally stronger achieving awakening she just got fat and old waiting because their was no real incentive
 
#2
Roger --- Top 3 Candidate by Fans
WB --- Top 3 Candidate by Fans
Xebec --- Top 3 Candidate by Fans
Shanks --- Top 3 Candidate by Fans
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.
.
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Oden --- "Let's pretend We didn't see him in that Panel"

All because He is related to Zoro's Hype in many ways, let's get Biased & put him wherever our Agenda works best,
Oden is just a Re-Skin of Roger, no different than Shanks or Rayleigh or Garp or WB or Xebec ... etc
Oden is Roger if He was a Samurai, deal with it.
 
#5
Actually is zoro fans who underrated him and put him below Ray...
See that's what you all don't understand.
Just because Kaidou top 5 Didn't other many strong characters.

Doesn't mean they are weak.
We have characters like Ray , Garp , Sengoku , Bigmam. Even Garling(I hope so).

But Kaidou , Definitely fought , Xebec , Whitebeard while he was in the crew with them.

- Then he fought Roger. (IDK when , but he did because kuma flashback , kaidou comment is sort of like he held a grudge , and Roger being Superior at that time definitely treated like how A Yonkou would Treat a YC1(Average))

- Then he Fought Oden.
- He probably Fought Shanks in between marineford arc off panel.


But we have whatsoever no evidence of Garp , Ray , Sengoku , Bigmam fighting him.

I understand Bigmam was in the crew as well , but bigmam herself said she treated him like a brother and even saved him afterwards.

Kaidou has no clash with types of Mihawk , current admirals. Not saying they would even as a Mihawk fan , you can keep the benefit of doubt. But they are surely scales around G4 AdCoC luffy easily.
And Kaidou already Acknowledged that.
 
#10
Kaido with awakening would be indeed very strong, Pk lvl most likely.
Oden with black swords wouldn´t be less stronger than Mihawk, maybe stronger too.

Yet both in their strongest manga version are not the strongest One Piece characters but still high.
I see Akainu,Shanks and Dragon clearly above them, would even bet money on it.
And then you have other characters who are equal or have the potential to be stronger too.
 
#12
Kaido with awakening would be indeed very strong, Pk lvl most likely.
Oden with black swords wouldn´t be less stronger than Mihawk, maybe stronger too.

Yet both in their strongest manga version are not the strongest One Piece characters but still high.
I see Akainu,Shanks and Dragon clearly above them, would even bet money on it.
And then you have other characters who are equal or have the potential to be stronger too.
Akainu above Kaido? :willight:
 
#13
Yea im certain in this one.
Would even bet with anyone who disagree with it. Was never more sure about a character being one of the strongest as Akainu.

Akainu,Shanks and Dragon are in fight spot to surpass Kaido.

And im sure you also feel the same if you think logical about the OP Story and Oda way of writing.
 
#14
Yea im certain in this one.
Would even bet with anyone who disagree with it. Was never more sure about a character being one of the strongest as Akainu.

Akainu,Shanks and Dragon are in fight spot to surpass Kaido.

And im sure you also feel the same if you think logical about the OP Story and Oda way of writing.
Based on? I am talking about akainu only. Kizaru fought luffy and he wasn't stronger than Kaido.
 
#15
Actually is zoro fans who underrated him and put him below Ray...
As if it's a downplay to put someone below Ray... :seriously:
Read yourself before...this isn't Kuzan or Kizaru that we're talking about, but the vice captain of the crew of the Pirate King himself.
The man is an absolute legend, the Dark King to the Pirate King, someone capable of replicating the same feat of Prime Shanks in old age.
 
#16
Based on? I am talking about akainu only. Kizaru fought luffy and he wasn't stronger than Kaido.
Dude was a meniac in MF, got a hit by raged Whitebeard back to his head and one super hit later again and he still was standing.

That Whitebeard punch on his head would even one shot guys like Oden(based how he got knocked out by Base Kaido with a hit his head offguard).

And Akainu has the most offensive df power (confirmed) in the verse alongside the portrayal that he would became the PK in one year as protagonist, also got the most hype as navy soldier on the side of the marines in Marineford, even above guys like Sengoku,Garp,Kuzan and Mihawk.

Could easily take Whitebeard power in direct confrontation, could easily handle Whitebeard pirates+Crocodile.

Make Teach and his entire crew run away alone by his presence.

And the best argument:
He is going to face Luffy again.
And each arc where Luffy becames stronger, the later the fight starts, the stronger Akainu will look like.

Luffy against Akainu>>>Wano Luffy.

Would bet my avi and change it for straight 3month if Akainu fails to surpass Kaido, with you, that is how much I have faith in Akainu.
 
#17
Dude was a meniac in MF, got a hit by raged Whitebeard back to his head and one super hit later again and he still was standing.

That Whitebeard punch on his head would even one shot guys like Oden(based how he got knocked out by Base Kaido with a hit his head offguard).

And Akainu has the most offensive df power (confirmed) in the verse alongside the portrayal that he would became the PK in one year as protagonist, also got the most hype as navy soldier on the side of the marines in Marineford, even above guys like Sengoku,Garp,Kuzan and Mihawk.

Could easily take Whitebeard power in direct confrontation, could easily handle Whitebeard pirates+Crocodile.

Make Teach and his entire crew run away alone by his presence.

And the best argument:
He is going to face Luffy again.
And each arc where Luffy becames stronger, the later the fight starts, the stronger Akainu will look like.

Luffy against Akainu>>>Wano Luffy.

Would bet my avi and change it for straight 3month if Akainu fails to surpass Kaido, with you, that is how much I have faith in Akainu.
--Akainu was immobilized by WB's attack who couldn't even use haki properly.

--BB also withstood WB's attack which was concentrated to his head and he was hurt by pre skip luffy's attack.

--Weaker oden tanked Roger's Kamusari where Kidd a 3B pirate got K.O.ed by shanks's Kamusari. Oden falling from cheap shot means nothing at all. Characters power decreases in OP if their guard are down. And I am debating Kaido not oden. I do agree akainu > Oden.

--No. Akainu doesn't have most offensive DF. That was mis-translation. He has "one" of the most and not "the most" offensive DF.

--Basically what oda said is that the serialisation for one piece will end in an year if Akainu had plot. Oda in SBS said even Kaido is weaker than mothers when someone asked whether akainu was stronger than their mother implying oda had Kaido higher.

--Sick MF WB is arguably weakest top tier. Even awakened Law can match gura.

--CP0 made yonko BBPs run away

--So did Kizaru who was mid as hell

Sure but I feel bad for you.
 
#18
I think haki is like ki, you can get stronger, for some reason he just didn't care to train his commanders and grow by being challenged by them after they get stronger, imagine for example the admirals training by fighting each other, or a commander being trained by fighting the captain of their crew, they just don't from what we have seen, maybe because the emperors underestimate their crewmates, and in the case of admirals, maybe they just don't care, they think they are strong enough already, same goes for emperor crews, and so on,

But if anybody did that, I think that in a few weeks or months they could be able to beat any other organization except for beating Imu,
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I think this shows how we often think about ourselves and each other too, it's very realistic that we think we are not capable of more, or that we underestimate ourselves,

Only a small part of the population, while living in relatively, to today, rough conditions, was able to figure out, with the help of the labour of the others too of course, the advancements made in the 20th century, imagine a 10 year timespan where everyone was focused on that, or imagine how you would be like in two weeks, a month, or a year of focus and loving yourself and others around you enough to have hope and treat yourself and them as if you can progress, you would be somewhere that's hard to picture,
 
#19
--Akainu was immobilized by WB's attack who couldn't even use haki properly.
We don´t know if Whitebeard used CoC and CoA in that punch or not, back then Oda never draw the haki lines.

And Akainu was fast enough to get back in sense and make a hole in the ground to get up again.

--BB also withstood WB's attack which was concentrated to his head and he was hurt by pre skip luffy's attack.
To be fair, BB get hurt by anything, doesn´t mean he has a trash endurance, dude endurance will be even above Kaido and Oden one.

--Weaker oden tanked Roger's Kamusari where Kidd a 3B pirate got K.O.ed by shanks's Kamusari. Oden falling from cheap shot means nothing at all. Characters power decreases in OP if their guard are down. And I am debating Kaido not oden. I do agree akainu > Oden.
On-guard he tanked Kamurasi, he got knocked out by a far weaker attack because he was offguard when Kaido hit him with it.

We have both scenarios:
- Oden get a cheap shot on his head>knocked out
- Akainu get a cheap shot+powerful blow on his rips, still standing, after a rage Whitebeard tried to kill him..

Sorry but Akainu durability and endurance seems better one than Oden one.
I doubt Oden would tank a cheap shot like how Akainu got hit twice. In fact I place a rage Whitebeard attack above a base swing attack of base Kaido.

--No. Akainu doesn't have most offensive DF. That was mis-translation. He has "one" of the most and not "the most" offensive DF.
Still a statement on his own for having one of the most best offensive df powers mate.

--Sick MF WB is arguably weakest top tier. Even awakened Law can match gura.
Still?
Same Law was able to broke Big Mom bones with his awakened moves, why you call it still?
Law awakened moves are easily top tier moves, but even he need awakening to match Gura punches, with proves how op Gura punches are.

Sorry but not betting on Akainu at this stage is not a great idea.
 
#20
This might shock you but hear me out, have it crossed your mind that there are multiple characters stronger than them ?
The only people above Rocks pirates are Roger, Imu and Joyboy
The only people above Oden are those I cited above alongside Rocks pirates
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Dude was a meniac in MF, got a hit by raged Whitebeard back to his head and one super hit later again and he still was standing.

That Whitebeard punch on his head would even one shot guys like Oden(based how he got knocked out by Base Kaido with a hit his head offguard).

And Akainu has the most offensive df power (confirmed) in the verse alongside the portrayal that he would became the PK in one year as protagonist, also got the most hype as navy soldier on the side of the marines in Marineford, even above guys like Sengoku,Garp,Kuzan and Mihawk.

Could easily take Whitebeard power in direct confrontation, could easily handle Whitebeard pirates+Crocodile.

Make Teach and his entire crew run away alone by his presence.

And the best argument:
He is going to face Luffy again.
And each arc where Luffy becames stronger, the later the fight starts, the stronger Akainu will look like.

Luffy against Akainu>>>Wano Luffy.

Would bet my avi and change it for straight 3month if Akainu fails to surpass Kaido, with you, that is how much I have faith in Akainu.
Fighting sickbeard who's dying doesn't mean you're near kaido or superior

Akainu will never surpass Kaido
He can't even beat nerfed kuma
Please let go of that dream
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We don´t know if Whitebeard used CoC and CoA in that punch or not, back then Oda never draw the haki lines.

And Akainu was fast enough to get back in sense and make a hole in the ground to get up again.



To be fair, BB get hurt by anything, doesn´t mean he has a trash endurance, dude endurance will be even above Kaido and Oden one.



On-guard he tanked Kamurasi, he got knocked out by a far weaker attack because he was offguard when Kaido hit him with it.

We have both scenarios:
- Oden get a cheap shot on his head>knocked out
- Akainu get a cheap shot+powerful blow on his rips, still standing, after a rage Whitebeard tried to kill him..

Sorry but Akainu durability and endurance seems better one than Oden one.
I doubt Oden would tank a cheap shot like how Akainu got hit twice. In fact I place a rage Whitebeard attack above a base swing attack of base Kaido.



Still a statement on his own for having one of the most best offensive df powers mate.



Still?
Same Law was able to broke Big Mom bones with his awakened moves, why you call it still?
Law awakened moves are easily top tier moves, but even he need awakening to match Gura punches, with proves how op Gura punches are.

Sorry but not betting on Akainu at this stage is not a great idea.
Oden was already tired from fighting for hours and suffering damages from Kaido during that war offscreen.
That's why he was beaten as soon as he was offguard

Akainu was fresh, nobody hurt him before WB did those 2 moves
And No, Akainu doesn't have better endurance and durability when he was out after 2 moves

You guys never learn

Only surpassing Kaido are Teach and Luffy
Imu and Joyboy are already above

No other villain or top tier nowadays will ever be above kaido in feats
 
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