Versus Battle CURRENT 60K HSU+50K Gaku Ka VS 100K Seika Army (FULL STRENGTH)

[Rumble]

@Elder Lee Hung @Owl Ki @Blackbeard @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea @FutureWarrior123 @RayanOO @Rumble @Greenbeard @Dark Admiral @Jailer @Peroroncino @Monet @Topi Jerami @Shanks @Cichy @Bullet @mmd @Yo Tan Wa @𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚 @Darkrai1381 @tcb @Pirao @Luffy is the mc @Warchief Sanji D Goat @Bepo @Daniel @Pot Goblin @centurion @Ou Zen

This is a straightforward confrontation.

There are two scenarios to consider:

A - General Ri Shin is CiC
B - General Mou Ten is CiC

In BOTH scenarios, they are facing a Seika Army at 100% - this means including Ji Aga, Jyou Ka Ryuu, and his arms Un Kei and Un Gen. EVERYONE is back.

Assume that everyone is fighting in peak condition and to the most of their abilities

The terrain is OPEN and SIMILAR TO the Battle of Hango

-

WHO WINS?

Qin Army - 110K

1. 40K Ri Shin Army
2. 20K Mou Ten Army
3. 20K Kyou Kai Army
4. 15K Ai Sen Army
5. 15K Riku Sen Army

Zhao Army - 100K

1. 20K Shi Ba Shou Army
2. 20K Kan Saro Army
3. 20K Gaku Shou Army (incl 10K Fuu On Army)
4. 20K Ji Aga Army
5. 20K Jyou Ka Ryuu Army

Which side has the advantage?

What match ups are likeliest to occur or should be aimed for by either side?

Who is likely to be the better CiC?

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Damn Seika just has too much firepower. Shibashou has EVERYONE here lol.

I think Qin gets stomped in both scenarios unless Shin or Kyoukai/Rei can somehow slay SBS and win the battle that way. Otherwise I think Qin is getting rolled over horribly.

 

[Rumble]

Damn Seika just has too much firepower. Shibashou has EVERYONE here lol.

I think Qin gets stomped in both scenarios unless Shin or Kyoukai/Rei can somehow slay SBS and win the battle that way. Otherwise I think Qin is getting rolled over horribly.

Seika has a lot firepower + exceptionally strong soldiers.

While I think it'll be a struggle, the combined forces of the HSU and Gaku Ka should have enough firepower to free up Shin to confront Shi Ba Shou in a duel.

In fact, whether it's Shin or Mou Ten calling the shots, I think that's what the strategy would be. Hold Shin back as much as possible and hope he can take on Shi Ba Shou on his own or hold on long enough for his allies to slay his generals and surround him.

It'll be a hard fought battle either way, but I think the HSU and Gaku Ka win it.

 

[Bepo]

Gakushou and Jyou Ka Ryuu were enough to handle Shin and Mouten, albeit in different, more dire conditions.

Both Shin and Mouten are probably in that high HK tier and should be capable of giving SBS a hard time, but I doubt they could actually defeat him.

 

[RayanOO]

Gakushou vs Mouten will be fun to watch

Jyoukaryuu vs Aisen too

Kansaro and Jiaga vs Kyoukai and Kyou Rei can be fun too but the sis are stronger but Kansaro likely a better tactician and leader

Fuuon vs Riku Sen we know that Fuuon is a little bit above Riku

Shin vs SBS, Shin going extra mile is a menace for anyone but he can’t win here. Shin can’t beat GG yet who are at 97/98+ and with weight and we all know SBS is in this ballpark minimum

Overall I think SBS army will win but it will be close

 

[Elmahdi]

Neither Shin reached the level where he can slay SBS neither is Mouten at a level where he can pull some Ri Boku-level tactic to corner Seika and Kyoukai is always busy with fodders/some random officiers(remember how insane SBS elites were) to Jump SBS with Shin

Shin(without plot armour) vs SBS is a clear W for SBS no matter how much peoples downplay SBS,If Shin(even with plot armour) was a at the level where he can casually slay Zhao Great Heavens(something even Ouki never did),We will surely know it.
EOS Shin vs SBS may be a match in Shin's favour,Current Shin(without Plot Armour) vs SBS is a mid diff for SBS and high diff at best.

The 60 000 of Kansaro and Gakushou(with Fuuon) and JKR can probaly stall The 35 000 of Kyoukai and Rikusen(just throw infinite fodders at kyoukai and if things get worse,Just Sacrifice JKR to stop her) and Fuuon and Gakushou can jump kyou rei.

Aisen and Ji Aga will probaly kill each others.

This will be a worse annihilation for the qin's army than Ousen at Hango.

 

[Rumble]

Gakushou and Jyou Ka Ryuu were enough to handle Shin and Mouten, albeit in different, more dire conditions.

Both Shin and Mouten are probably in that high HK tier and should be capable of giving SBS a hard time, but I doubt they could actually defeat him.

Shin and Mou Ten have the numbers advantage now.

The battle is taking place on open plains. The HSU and Gaku Ka are good at working together. Whatever level they are, the circumstances are straightforward enough for it not to matter beyond their ability to slay the enemy generals.

Gakushou vs Mouten will be fun to watch

Jyoukaryuu vs Aisen too

Kansaro and Jiaga vs Kyoukai and Kyou Rei can be fun too but the sis are stronger but Kansaro likely a better tactician and leader

Fuuon vs Riku Sen we know that Fuuon is a little bit above Riku

Shin vs SBS, Shin going extra mile is a menace for anyone but he can’t win here. Shin can’t beat GG yet who are at 97/98+ and with weight and we all know SBS is in this ballpark minimum

Overall I think SBS army will win but it will be close

Why these match ups in particular?

 

[RayanOO]

Shin and Mou Ten have the numbers advantage now.

The battle is taking place on open plains. The HSU and Gaku Ka are good at working together. Whatever level they are, the circumstances are straightforward enough for it not to matter beyond their ability to slay the enemy generals.



Why these match ups in particular?

Just thought it was fitting match ups

it’s obviously totally handpicked by me, so we don’t know if it would end the same in this fight or not but it seemed those match ups fit the most (style, number etc)

 

[Rumble]

Just thought it was fitting match ups

it’s obviously totally handpicked by me, so we don’t know if it would end the same in this fight or not but it seemed those match ups fit the most (style, number etc)

Consider that, whoever is CiC, Mou Ten and Ka Ryo Ten are going to be there to give their input.

With that in mind, how do you think both sides line up?

 

[Daniel]

Darn. I don't even remember the details of that Battle of Hango and I never really kept track of any strategies that the generals pulled off either.

Can Kyou Kai even command an army of her own or does she mainly have to implement directions from other generals and strategists (such as Ten) here?

 

[Bepo]

Shin and Mou Ten have the numbers advantage now.

The battle is taking place on open plains. The HSU and Gaku Ka are good at working together. Whatever level they are, the circumstances are straightforward enough for it not to matter beyond their ability to slay the enemy generals.

Sure, but a slight numerical advantage isn't going to take all of the struggle away.

Jyou Ka Ryuu gave Shin a really hard time and nearly killed him.

Gakushou did the same to Mouten and was able clash evenly-ish with Akou.

And SBS then still has has access to multiple subordinates and that's ignoring he could join the battle himself.

The odds are just too stacked for Shin and Mouten here.

 

[Rumble]

Sure, but a slight numerical advantage isn't going to take all of the struggle away.

The combined ~25K of the HSU of the Gaku Ka were already outnumbered before the Seika Army joined the fray, fresh as a fiddle by the way. They were still incapable of stopping the HSU from carving out an escape route and ensuring the Gaku Ka took it.

Spoiler: Chapter 718

Jyou Ka Ryuu gave Shin a really hard time and nearly killed him.

The HSU soldier is in shock because there's no expectation of JKR being capable of standing a chance against Shin, and I would say he doesn't.

For one, their confrontation didn't last very long. Bear in mind, the Qin side had a limited window to escape. Everything went down very quickly. Shin didn't fight JKR for long.

Secondly, Shin did not give JKR his undivided attention as he was acting under pressure of breaking out in time while also distracted by Mou Ten's predicament, and still getting jumped by fodder in between dealing with JKR and his lieutenants.

Lastly, most importantly, and most simply: we know JKR couldn't give Shin a hard time because we - should - know by now that Shin is one of the strongest motherfuckers walking.

Gakushou did the same to Mouten and was able clash evenly-ish with Akou.

Mou Ten was surrounded and stabbed by a fodder in the back, remember? He still managed to deflect Gaku Shou's blow.

In a clean 1v1, Mou Ten skins him alive.

And SBS then still has has access to multiple subordinates and that's ignoring he could join the battle himself.

The odds are just too stacked for Shin and Mouten here.

From where I'm sitting, the firepower advantage is on the Qin side.

Shin and Kyou Kai are capable of slaying Shi Ba Shou. Kyou Rei is stronger than anyone else he has. The match ups might be tricky to figure out and time, the advantage is with the Qin imo.

 

[Luffy is the mc]

I'll go with Shin and Mouten. While SBS and his army might be a bit stronger, I didn't see anything tactically that put them above Mouten or Ten without RBK.

Mouten is a genius, with Shin, Kyoukai, Ten and Aisen he can pull off something, especially with Shin instinct kicking in.

 

[Rumble]

I'll go with Shin and Mouten. While SBS and his army might be a bit stronger, I didn't see anything tactically that put them above Mouten or Ten without RBK.

Mouten is a genius, with Shin, Kyoukai, Ten and Aisen he can pull off something, especially with Shin instinct kicking in.

Are they better off with Shin in CiC or Mou Ten? What do you think the difference would look like?

 

[Luffy is the mc]

Are they better off with Shin in CiC or Mou Ten? What do you think the difference would look like?

I don't think it would matter much, they both have their qualities and I think they would work well together.

 

[Rumble]

I don't think it would matter much, they both have their qualities and I think they would work well together.

I think it would make a significant difference who leads because of their different qualities.

Like Ri Boku and Ou Sen, Mou Ten would probably take a vantage point to oversee the whole battle and trust Ka Ryo Ten to manage the lines while he focused on tracking the movements of SBS, Gaku Shou and Kan Saro. He would probably use Kyou Kai and Ai Sen on offense, and have Shin acting as bait in a position where he'd still be able to make judgment calls as needed. In essence, Mou Ten would keep his strongest blade sharp and ready to parry the moment SBS made a move.

Shin also likes a vantage point but prefers being close to the action. I don't think he'd have any trouble conserving his strength for SBS, but he would probably want to do it while close enough to be able to abandon that idea entirely. In general, think Shin would go for a more collaborative effort, as in treating the Gaku Ka and HSU armies as one army similar to how he had his units behaving at Gishi Plains. I can very clearly imagine Shin appointing Mou Ten as the strategist for the battle to run things from HQ while the So Sui unit helps the Riku Sen Army and the Hi Hyou assist Ai Sen, etc.

I think both are good, likely approaches, but the result wouldn't necessarily be the same.

I think both win, but Mou Ten does it a little cleaner on the rank and file level, and Shin does it more effectively by killing more of the enemy's officers.

 

[𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚]

Seika stomps

 

[Rumble]

Seika stomps

You're acting like the HSU and Gaku Ka didn't beat their asses in direct confronation once already.

Way I see it, the key to victory for Seika is SBS killing the enemy CiC (Shin or Mou Ten) before his generals are taken out. Ri Boku expended substantial resources for a year just to avoid Shi Ba Shou running into the man he witnessed slay Hou Ken, I'd say the odds of him getting past Shin are unfavourable to begin with.

And considering the Qin have superior firepower top to bottom, the odds of SBS succeeding before his own officers are killed is even less likely. The Qin side simply has more firepower - firepower that would only be more lethal with Mou Ten calling the shots on strategy and tactics in between Ka Ryo Ten's management of lines and Shin's instincts.

This isn't unwinnable victory for Seika by any means, but they're the actual underdogs in an open field.