Character Discussion Luffy surpasses his opponents

[Albino 👑]

??

The point isn't that he needs it. The point is that he used it moron

Why didn't he used adv coc in base to take out lucci quickly then?

It’s as simple as asking just asking why
Luffy barely used conquerors against anyone despite being in a rush. So that point really doesn’t mean anything

You’re asking the same questions and im answering them multiple times. I’m not going to keep repeating myself just read the manga man

 

[trav]

Only those where he was already very close to.
Many of Luffys victories are plain plot induced stupidity/convenience.

Luffy did not "surpass" Moriah and Corcodile for over 2 years even though they were both defeated.
Overall he was also still below Enel in power for a long time and his victory against him was highly circumstantial.
Enel could beat way more opponents and with very little effort as well than pre-skip Luffy.
Luffy was also still weaker than Doflamingo after he beat him. Doffys was barely keeping himself alive by the time they had their final round.
Kaido was not defeated by Luffy. Kaido died IN MAGMA. He was still conscious and thinking about the past before disintegrating.

Will Luffy become stronger than all his previous opponents?
Ladida... its shonen. Its pretty much a given that he will. Eventually.
Clearly not in the timeframe you suggested though.
Another horrible take by Albino, as usual.

 

[MonsterKaido]

It’s as simple as asking just asking why
Luffy barely used conquerors against anyone despite being in a rush. So that point really doesn’t mean anything

You’re asking the same questions and im answering them multiple times. I’m not going to keep repeating myself just read the manga man

You are creating own head canon excuses and giving your reasons which means nothing. If anything egghead has shown luffy likes using his gears way more often than adv coc.

 

[RayanOO]

People acting like they don’t understand how g4/5 works

Both gears are last resort forms. The only time he really uses them is

1. He’s done everything he can to weaken his opponents without them
2. He’s on a time crunch and needs to try and get things over with as quick as possible

Y’all are being mad disingenuous pretending luffy would use either form off the bat in a normal fight. In a straight 1v1 with no outside situations whether it’s kaido or kizaru he’s never going to just jump to g4/5 off the bat

Okay but what is your point here ?

that Luffy will stall with G2/G3 and win with G4/G5

‘that won’t work with Doffy Cracker Kata because they were clearly superior to G2/G3 and could contend / stall G4

Being in G2/3 only means Luffy will take hits and will be bullied until he goes for the big guns

Against Kaido G2/3 with AdCOC is a great way to start the start and he can fight him long enough with it but Kaido is quite stronger than those moves too and Luffy won’t have a choice to bring G4/5 or he will get overwhelmed by Kaido higher forms

So no in each fight it’s not Luffy that decided the tempo and timing of his G4/5 it’s his opponents that are too strong for G2/3 that forced Luffy to raise the bar

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

Okay but what is your point here ?

that Luffy will stall with G2/G3 and win with G4/G5

‘that won’t work with Doffy Cracker Kata because they were clearly superior to G2/G3 and could contend / stall G4

Being in G2/3 only means Luffy will take hits and will be bullied until he goes for the big guns

Against Kaido G2/3 with AdCOC is a great way to start the start and he can fight him long enough with it but Kaido is quite stronger than those moves too and Luffy won’t have a choice to bring G4/5 or he will get overwhelmed by Kaido higher forms

So no in each fight it’s not Luffy that decided the tempo and timing of his G4/5 it’s his opponents that are too strong for G2/3 that forced Luffy to raise the bar

Luffy 100% didn't need G4 to beat a number or Ulti, he can also use these forms when he wants to rush a win

 

[RayanOO]

Luffy 100% didn't need G4 to beat a number or Ulti, he can also use these forms when he wants to rush a win

Obviously I didn’t talk about Ulti or the number or even Luffy

I talked about his real big fights

 

[Albino 👑]

You are creating own head canon excuses and giving your reasons which means nothing. If anything egghead has shown luffy likes using his gears way more often than adv coc.

It really is just as simple as asking yourself why he’s resorting to using extremely taxing and time limiting forms + remembering their in a rush to escape

Okay but what is your point here ?

that Luffy will stall with G2/G3 and win with G4/G5

‘that won’t work with Doffy Cracker Kata because they were clearly superior to G2/G3 and could contend / stall G4

Being in G2/3 only means Luffy will take hits and will be bully till he goes for the big guns

Against Kaido G2/3 with AdCOC is a great way to start the start and he can fight him long enough with it but Kaido is quite stronger than those moves too and Luffy won’t have a choice to bring G4/5 or he will get overwhelmed by Kaido higher forms

So no in each fight it’s not Luffy that decided the tempo and timing of his G4/5 it’s his opponents that are too strong for G2/3 that forced Luffy to raise the bar

He was wearing them down tho

• Luffy only used snakeman after wearing down katakuri as much as he could
• Luffy only used boundman after trying to wear down doffy and then being rushed to end try and end it quickly due to bird cage
• He only used tankman when he was sure he going to win
  • Tho tbf to cracker luffy was lowkey fucked againt him without the help. Katakuri still recognized luffy as being strong enough to beat him after seeing boundman tho

Even luffy getting his ass beat was able to help him ware down katakuri. Him achieving future sight tho helped significantly. He still obviously needed g4
Luffy was able to comfortably fight doffy without g4. Doflamingo needed his awakening to complete with g4 and even then Luffy was a few seconds from beating doffy the first usage
Cracker was unironically overwhelming the hell out of Luffy lol

Yeah like you said Luffy can fight and ware down kaido without g4/5 until he needs to use it

Just to clarify no one is saying luffy didn’t need g4 to beat those opponents in particular. He obviously did but that doesn’t change the fact he isn’t jumping to g4 off the bat to beat them. He’s going to do everything in his power to weaken and tire them out as much as possible before he does


Like it’s disingenuous to believe luffy would jump straight into g5 against kaido or g4 against doflamingo in a straight 1v1 no interference. If he did he obviously loses as soon as they were off and luffy knows that. He’s not as dumb as people are pretending he is

 

[RayanOO]

He was wearing them down tho

• Luffy only used snakeman after wearing down katakuri as much as he could
• Luffy only used boundman after trying to wear down doffy and then being rushed to end try and end it quickly due to bird cage
• He only used tankman when he was sure he going to win
  • Tho tbf to cracker luffy was lowkey fucked againt him without the help. Katakuri still recognized luffy as being strong enough to beat him after seeing boundman tho

Even luffy getting his ass beat was able to help him ware down katakuri. Him achieving future sight tho helped significantly. He still obviously needed g4

Katakuri was beating his ass in G2/3 even after Luffy gained FS. Luffy didn’t have a choice to activate G4 or he would have lost quick.

Kata also took a Boundman beating, hurt himself with Mogura and didn’t want to finish Luffy before snake man and all that for free. In a classic fight Kata would have beaten Luffy, even post PU. Luffy can’t win in a single G4 use and Kata is quite superior to G2/3 as proven by feats and panels and what happened during the fight.

Cracker also destroyed Luffy fast and hard in G2/3

Luffy was able to comfortably fight doffy without g4.

False

Doffy was superior to G2/3 and was dominating Luffy. Luffy connected hits sure but was inferior.

Without G4 Lyffy would have lost against Doffy even without using awakening

just read this chapter just before G4 actiavtion

https://tcbscans.me/chapters/1243/one-piece-chapter-783-review-1688718750

it’s telling that Doffy was better than Luffy G2/3 by a nice margin

 

[Buusatan94]

It has long stopped feeling like Luffy was truly surpassing his foes, nor that any of his victories against them has felt earned when the power of the plot is going so strongly in his favor and against them, and when he doesn't act like he has surpassed them nor worthy of having beaten them after.

 

[zenox]

 

[JoNdule]

Whether it was croc

Katakuri

Or kaido the whole point of those fights were for luffy to surpass them. Sure you can argue that when they return they come back stronger than their previous selves

• Luffy left alabasta stronger or at worst equal than alabasta crocodile
• Luffy left wci stronger or at worst equal than wci katakuri
• Luffy left wano stronger or at worst equal than wano kaido

Lucci is a similar situation but in this case luffy gained the power to do so before their fight aka gears. Tho obviously he had to push himself to his limits still to surpass him

There are exceptions tho with obviously opponents he doesn’t defeat at all but also Enel. Enel was way stronger than luffy overall but luffy just happened to be the perfect counter

As for cracker and Doflamingo they weren’t significantly stronger or at all stronger than luffy. At worst being on a comparable level and within reach of luffy

That's why Luffy is arguably above anyone bar Imu right now

Post automatically merged: Oct 2, 2024

Serious all out Luffy beat Shanks & Teach
and high diffs any admiral bar maybe Akainu

 

[Cruxroux]

Funny thing is that Luffy remained weaker than every major opponent he ever had.

This.
I don't how many time Oda has done it.

They all fail to realize.
- luffy runs away mid battle
- Fight exhausted enemy
- takes more L then W.
- Is there even any fight where did not take someone else help?

 

[BornInAbyss]

Never has never will. He will also beat imu with the help of others, not by his own. He won’t surpass him either.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Seeing how Marineford Luffy was downright outclassed by crocodile and Moriah still is pretty telling how Oda doesn’t think Luffy surpassed either of them.

Kaido he sure as hell didn’t surpass. Yamato outright stated Kaido was nerfed while G5 was at 100% and got multiple rounds with it cause Luffy got a snack break.
Doffy lmao Luffy needed help against a gimped post GK Doffy Luffy definitely didn’t surpass him
Katakuri got an entire personality change to let Luffy win.

Luffy doesn’t surpass his opponents. He wins because some one or something else weakened them

 

[BornInAbyss]

Seeing how Marineford Luffy was downright outclassed by crocodile and Moriah still is pretty telling how Oda doesn’t think Luffy surpassed either of them.

Kaido he sure as hell didn’t surpass. Yamato outright stated Kaido was nerfed while G5 was at 100% and got multiple rounds with it cause Luffy got a snack break.
Doffy lmao Luffy needed help against a gimped post GK Doffy Luffy definitely didn’t surpass him
Katakuri got an entire personality change to let Luffy win.

Luffy doesn’t surpass his opponents. He wins because some one or something else weakened them

Didn‘t expect you saying this ngl.

 

[JoNdule]

Pre ts G2/G3 Luffy ~ Lucci
Pre Fs Luffy ~ Cracker >= Doffy
Katakuri >= FS Luffy, Luffy truly surpassed him when he got adcoa
Kaido >~ awakened CoC Luffy , Luffy gonna surpass him, Shanks and BM once he gets a new PU in Elbaf and then beats Teach

 

[BigAmmi]

Whether it was croc

Katakuri

Or kaido the whole point of those fights were for luffy to surpass them. Sure you can argue that when they return they come back stronger than their previous selves

• Luffy left alabasta stronger or at worst equal than alabasta crocodile
• Luffy left wci stronger or at worst equal than wci katakuri
• Luffy left wano stronger or at worst equal than wano kaido

Lucci is a similar situation but in this case luffy gained the power to do so before their fight aka gears. Tho obviously he had to push himself to his limits still to surpass him

There are exceptions tho with obviously opponents he doesn’t defeat at all but also Enel. Enel was way stronger than luffy overall but luffy just happened to be the perfect counter

As for cracker and Doflamingo they weren’t significantly stronger or at all stronger than luffy. At worst being on a comparable level and within reach of luffy

True, by a little margin ( luffy >= kaido and not luffy > kaido ecc), but yes, luffy is stronger than his antagonist when he wins the fight, no matter how he wins, in oda's mind he is stronger

 

[Sir Yasheen]

True, by a little margin ( luffy >= kaido and not luffy > kaido ecc), but yes, luffy is stronger than his antagonist when he wins the fight, no matter how he wins, in oda's mind he is stronger

I don’t know how you can read Marineford and think Oda considered Luffy stronger than Croc or Moriah…

 

[gz89]

Every big arc fight ends in a draw. Luffy "wins" because he and his crew accomplished their task, save Robin, save DR citizens from Doffy's plotcage etc etc. He never won desicively against a main arc's villain.
That said even if it's by a small margin Oda thinks Luffy is above his opponent when the fight it's over.

Imo the only exception so far is Kaido. We know that Oda usually let Luffy get some help from outsiders during his battle but with Kaido he went out of his way and let multiple characters to fight him before losing to Luffy.

 

[Albino 👑]

Katakuri was beating his ass in G2/3 even after Luffy gained FS. Luffy didn’t have a choice to activate G4 or he would have lost quick.

Kata also took a Boundman beating, hurt himself with Mogura and didn’t want to finish Luffy before snake man and all that for free. In a classic fight Kata would have beaten Luffy, even post PU. Luffy can’t win in a single G4 use and Kata is quite superior to G2/3 as proven by feats and panels and what happened during the fight.

Cracker also destroyed Luffy fast and hard in G2/3



False

Doffy was superior to G2/3 and was dominating Luffy. Luffy connected hits sure but was inferior.

Without G4 Lyffy would have lost against Doffy even without using awakening

just read this chapter just before G4 actiavtion

https://tcbscans.me/chapters/1243/one-piece-chapter-783-review-1688718750

it’s telling that Doffy was better than Luffy G2/3 by a nice margin

Yes katakuri was stronger than Luffy without g4. That doesn’t change the fact that even just beating his ass for hours and luffy getting his hits in was exhausting him. The longer the fight drew out the more exhausted he was getting. Also admittedly Kata did let luffy go snakeman
Whether it’s a cool win condition or not a fresh post wci luffy while not being able to outright overpower katakuri can still win in the long run just due to his stamina and endurance. Again not the coolest win by a long shot by katakuri won’t be able to put luffy down for good cause every single time luffy is going to get back up and keep fighting
Also the him cutting himself open only happened after flambé interfered and caused luffy to get hit. Without interference neither would’ve taken the attack


Again cracker overwhelmed the fuck out of Luffy without g4 lol. At the same time I don’t think Luffy was outright weaker than him overall or needed a power up to defeat him. Katakuri thought Luffy was strong enough to beat him so ima take his word on the matter



Doffy’s a liar man lol that’s what he does. Same way kaido, king, queen, or even Vergo if I remember correctly we’re pretending they weren’t effected or scared of the attacks coming their way. Doffy even tried to act like he wasn’t all that hurt by laws attacks
Luffy straight up in base was able to break through his armament hardening defenses, make him bleed, and just overwhelm him in close combat

Even in the chapter while he tries to shit on luffy’s power and speed he still evenly clashes with base luffy
Also the whole speech about him being too slow, too weak, and not having enough time due to birdcage is 100% just oda using doffy to hype g4

Again he was able to overwhelm and hurt him in base. Queen also lied throughout his whole fight with Sanji to fuck with him but again he was lying

Luffy was 100% capable of giving non awakening doffy a good fight. He was also capable of beating doffy the first g4 transformation had he landed that last attack but eh
Hell he was capable of tanking some of his awakened attacks with his hardening before it it truly came all back

Also reacting to some of his casual awakened attacks