Controversial MODERATION : Why refusing to name, call or label troubles is problematic

[Murilo]

I've been away from the forum for a while and now that I popped back I stumbled upon one of your posts, and the sheer length, passion, organization and dramatization had me low key entertained enough that I actually read the whole post and most of the comments in this thread lol

Good luck in your endeavor and I look forward to seeing more of your fight. I know you have good intentions but you sure like to over-problematize things huh, this will amount to nothing but at the very least it grabbed my attention enough to visit more often and watch all this

 

[Logiko]

but you sure like to over-problematize

Hehe. You are not wrong here.

But the show is also here to make an impact. The problem I'm trying to prevent is sadly very real and I fear that it could be inevitable if nothing is done in a few parts of the fanbase. Worstgen being just one of them.

The future might prove me wrong, but I'm not very optimist on this. But as I said.. I'm not fighting that much anymore. I might create a new thread here and there, but I gave up on this forum.

 

[Cherry Hilk]

Gargantua and Pantagruel, one of the greatest works of world literature, is mostly about people insulting and humiliating each other in the most creative, cheerful, degrading and inclusive way. I set myself to do my utmost to keep alive its spirit… labels are just unfunny insults.

 

[Logiko]

Gargantua and Pantagruel, one of the greatest works of world literature, is mostly about people insulting and humiliating each other in the most creative, cheerful, degrading and inclusive way. I set myself to do my utmost to keep alive its spirit… labels are just unfunny insults.

That's because Labels are not meant to disrespect anyone. They are meant to clarify the political spectrum.

 

[Cherry Hilk]

That's because Labels are not meant to disrespect anyone. They are meant to clarify the political spectrum.

Even worse. They’re unintentionally so, thus they are dumb other than insulting.

 

[Logiko]

Even worse. They’re unintentionally so, thus they are dumb other than insulting.

Labels are not insults. If you consider a label as an insults, maybe it's because you are not very confident with your own opinion.

You got to own what you believe in. And the political spectrum must stay clear, which means that some groups of people have some opinions and others, the same. And usually, when you believe in something, you believe in a lot of others which makes the labels relevant to use when the person tries to appear more progressive that they actually are.

You can call me a leftist, a woke, a radical leftist or even a communist if you want, I won't get mad.

A label is not an insult. But usually, if you see it that way, there are BIG chances that you are not owning your own opinion.

 

[Blax Blah]

I wish we wouldn't insult or make fun of each other,

 

[Logiko]

I wish we wouldn't insult or make fun of each other,

I agree. On the other hand, it's a necessity to label. I don't do it because I love that, but because it's a necessity.

 

[Daniel]

You can call me a leftist, a woke, a radical leftist or even a communist if you want, I won't get mad.

Then don't brag about your government implementing huge fines and locking people up for opinions and statements

Spoiler

even if they can be "unflattering" at times 🤫

Besides, labelling people usually triggers a pushback from the side of the recipient, especially when these labels that get thrown can have actual ramifications (not just an insult either).

Labelling people on a constant basis is the sign of a judgmental person.

 

[Logiko]

Then don't brag about your government implementing huge fines and locking people up for opinions and statements

I think you are confusing oppression with labelling mate. Labelling is done to STOP oppressive behavior, in other word, to do the opposite of what you are saying right here.

Labelling is made to allow people to understand what someone is saying and what political spectrum it is. Labels, as I explain in this thread, are made to name a problem.

Besides, labelling people usually triggers a pushback from the side of the recipient

Only on the right side. You don't see me being triggered because people call me a woke or a communist. I love that.
Labels make people inconfortable when they do not own and understand their own ideology.

Usually because the label used is charged with negative pre-conceptions : Far rightism for ex.

The thing is: It's not because someone say that they are not far right, that it is not the case. In my case, labels are always put on people based on political context and behavior, usually also based on academic researches on the subject. I never label someone out of the blue, there is always a reason.

And the reason is mostly because some very conservative people try to appears as more progressive that they actually are. Which confuses the political spectrum and can make people radicalize toward their side. I label to avoid this.

Labelling people on a constant basis is the sign of a judgmental person.

Yes. Of course it is.

Judgment is sometimes necessary. Judgment on negative behavior usually but also positive behavior. In the left, we have no problems labelling eachothers to be stronger.

You see, that's the difference between rightist and leftist.

- On the left, we love labelling eachothers and usually, if we are called a radical, it's usually a good sign.

- On the right however, people are triggered by being called conservatives or liberals because they do not accept the fact that they have liberals or conservative and therefore potentially harmfull values or behavior. They can't own their own ideology. Because somewhere, deep down, they know that liberal and conservatives values are negative... but they refuse to change.

So....

We need to keep labelling them, to avoid the confusion of the political spectrum and to make them remember that what they are saying is NOT progressive and it's NOT helpfull for all at all.

If you don't allow yourself to judge negativity, you will let oppressive behavior flourish.

 

[Mathias]

I wish we wouldn't insult or make fun of each other,

You chose the right profile picture

 

[Daniel]

I wish we wouldn't insult or make fun of each other,

I do too. Diving people into different sides is not the way though.

 

[Logiko]

I do too. Diving people into different sides is not the way though.

I will give a very absolute example. To make you understand why dividing people is sometimes a question of survival:

Let's say that you have a little brother and that little brother tells you that he met a lot of new people that want to change the world and it makes him very happy. Logically, you will be very happy for him, right ?

Now, what if you learn that those people are literal neo-nazis ? Would you intervene or would you let your little brother see those people without any intervention ?

 

[Daniel]

Let's say that you have a little brother and that little brother tells you that he met a lot of new people that want to change the world and it makes him very happy. Logically, you will be very happy for him, right ?

Now, what if you learn that those people are literal neo-nazis ? Would you intervene or would you let your little brother see those people without any intervention ?

Knowing you, you'd probably assume them to be neo-nazis without even meeting them face to face beforehand.

Would you try to lock them up too? You could be guilty of defamation and false charges against them if you tried that.

Anyways

These constant attempts of yours at division of the members in this forum based on his/her beliefs based on the things that were posted in the politics thread (which you, yourself vouched for the creation of) isn't helpful here at all. All it's going to do is create more conflict and make people get pissed off at one another, in a weeb forum that barely cares about political events other than the ones who post in the general politics thread no less.

So I agree with @Blax Blah here. If you really wanted to talk politics, reddit would be more than willing to oblige, but the majority of this site here isn't the place for it. Most here would rather discuss the latest news instead of dabbling in political debates, which you are pretty much trying to force people into doing.

 

[Logiko]

Knowing you, you'd probably assume them to be neo-nazis without even meeting them face to face beforehand.
Would you try to lock them up too? You could be guilty of defamation and false charges against them if you tried that.

I was not talking about me. I said "what if YOU learn ..". The purpose of this is to make you understand that if YOU learn from TRUSTED sources that those people are Nazi, then there is a big chances for you that you will intervene and at lost warn you little brother over it.

It's really something. A lot of people on this forum simply cannot project. This is not the first time that I try to make people understand an experience of thought, and somehow they always fail to understand the simple the point of the projection and simply.. cannot do it.

You literally didn't understand what I was saying and you used your lack of understanding to attack me. Incredible.

These constant attempts of yours at division of the members in this forum based on his/her beliefs based on the things that were posted in the politics thread (which you, yourself vouched for the creation of) isn't helpful here at all.

I'm sorry but I do not create division. This division is created when those people (and you for example here) are depicting divising behaviors.

I'm not the one that is telling you to hate trans people, I'm not the one to make you vote or praise conservatives who hurts people like me, I'm not the one telling you to defend hurtfull ideologies, I'm not the one denying sciences constantly, I'm not the one refusing to face reality...

You guyz are doing those things on your OWN. I'm only pointing a finger at you to make you realize thatn and for you to avoid bringing other people in your BS. Do not whine at me because I call out the BS, look at yourself first, I'm not the one praising divisive opinions and oppressive behaviors.

And I'm sorry little snowflake, but I will not be the one to accept oppressive opinions on my side of the political spectrum. Look at yourself, you literally just defended - by reactance - a person described as a Nazi.

So I'm not the problem here. While the opinion of Blax is lovely, acceptation and love are not how we can stop oppressors from operating.

All it's going to do is create more conflict and make people get pissed off at one another

Once again, like many people here, you do not realize that the conflict is ALREADY here. It didn't wait for me to appear.

The clash of political values have been around in this forum long before the creation of this political section. Heck, even the Nakama war was a political debate if we look at it with care.

What you are trying to to is depoliticize the debate.

You are trying to confuse people into thinking that all opinions are relative and equivalent in the "market of ideas", when in reality, some opinions (the rightists ones) are usually bad for everyone, oppressive, counter productive, anti-scientific or simply ignorant of the reality of the world.

There is no such thing as relativity in political debate. This is why labels are important. Because it allows people to realize that there are conflicts and unequivalences.

but the majority of this site here isn't the place for it.

Said who ?

Most here would rather discuss the latest news instead of dabbling in political debates, which you are pretty much trying to force people into doing.

Yeah.. that's why the political general thread is 2000 pages long. Sorry, this argument does not work.

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Try to confuse people elsewhere please.