Volume 110 - Discussion Thread (November 1st, 2024)

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

This pane/reaction is important in hindsight and explains Kizaru's mindset

He believed he could take advantage of WSG and stay "inactive"(hence why he was still shown resting/sitting after Luffy being fed despite being fully mobile and perception blitzing everyone) while hoping Luffy would manage to have Sentoumaru & co escape. But once Kuma arrived and punched the shit out of a gorosei, he knew he had to get his ass back to work if he wants to stay credible.

Knowing he has a "brotherly" relationship with Akainu and has been loyal to the Navy for 3 decades, openly betraying his bro and subordinates because of his personal feelings would make him very selfish. I doubt it was the first morally fucked up mission he took part in.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

It’s not overcomplicating anything, his actions makes zero sense because you can point to multiple occasions where Kizaru directly endangers all his friends lives without any guarantee that the Strawhats would save them.

The guy literally went out his way to fight Sentomaru when he was ordered by Saturn not to lmao.

Like here, what, is Kizaru just gambling on Bonney being able to control the Pacifista? Hoping that Sanji will somehow be able to save all of them in time?

Cunningly directing all of his shots to miss vital organs?

The beginning of his Oscar-winning perfomance where he pretends to be surprised that Luffy has attacked him just before he cuts Bonney and Kuma in half?

Continuing to showcase his thespian talents by adding his gift for comedic reaction?

We can compare it to Garp in Marineford in that it would be really fucking stupid if after Garp took his obvious ”I can’t actually do this so am going to sandbag to Luffy” dive, he then... killed Ace anyway and put Luffy in literal mortal danger several times afterwards, relying on the Whitebeard Pirates to save him at the last minute.

Then complained about Sengoku daring to point out that he half assed things.

Kizaru’s story was compelling because it was coming across as the anti Garp in that he chose his orders rather than his loved ones, while Garp took the alternative approach. Bad thing to do, but the determination to do it can be respected.

Bipolar Kizaru who feeds Luffy once and does absolutely nothing else to help his friends, far less compelling.

Or I suppose he’s to be applauded for giving up when there was literally five Gorosei rampaging around the island and the only thing that saved Bonney and Kuma was a robot having a magic haki bomb rope.

Now, Kizaru genuinely just comes across as pathetic. And maybe that’s intentional from Oda’s behalf, given he did call himself a sad man, but I‘m not sure that it is entirely coming across the way it is intended.

I love it

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

It’s not overcomplicating anything, his actions makes zero sense because you can point to multiple occasions where Kizaru directly endangers all his friends lives without any guarantee that the Strawhats would save them.

The guy literally went out his way to fight Sentomaru when he was ordered by Saturn not to lmao.

Like here, what, is Kizaru just gambling on Bonney being able to control the Pacifista? Hoping that Sanji will somehow be able to save all of them in time?

Cunningly directing all of his shots to miss vital organs?

The beginning of his Oscar-winning perfomance where he pretends to be surprised that Luffy has attacked him just before he cuts Bonney and Kuma in half?

Continuing to showcase his thespian talents by adding his gift for comedic reaction?

We can compare it to Garp in Marineford in that it would be really fucking stupid if after Garp took his obvious ”I can’t actually do this so am going to sandbag to Luffy” dive, he then... killed Ace anyway and put Luffy in literal mortal danger several times afterwards, relying on the Whitebeard Pirates to save him at the last minute.

Then complained about Sengoku daring to point out that he half assed things.

Kizaru’s story was compelling because it was coming across as the anti Garp in that he chose his orders rather than his loved ones, while Garp took the alternative approach. Bad thing to do, but the determination to do it can be respected.

Bipolar Kizaru who feeds Luffy once and does absolutely nothing else to help his friends, far less compelling.

Or I suppose he’s to be applauded for giving up when there was literally five Gorosei rampaging around the island and the only thing that saved Bonney and Kuma was a robot having a magic haki bomb rope.

Now, Kizaru genuinely just comes across as pathetic. And maybe that’s intentional from Oda’s behalf, given he did call himself a sad man, but I‘m not sure that it is entirely coming across the way it is intended.

Okay, but what do you think about Luffy vs Kizaru?

 

[MarineHQ]

I love it

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I think Kizaru already came to terms with killing Stella, he had enough time to think about it and he was already headed to the island before Luffy was a thing.

What I think happened was he was feeding Luffy to simply spare as many lives as possible. Once Saturn got punched square in the face, there is a limit to how much he can disrespect his Admiral position.

This is completely onbrand with Kizaru. Though once Stella was killed, Kizaru was overcome with emotion and used Luffy as an out.

That's been my interpretation.

Kizaru admitted to Sentomaru that Vegapunk had to go, he couldn't do anything about it.

There was no set execution order on Bonney, at least none that needed to be strictly obeyed, until it was revealed she had utter control over every Pacifista. I take it as Kizaru wanting Luffy to save Bonney because he himself couldn't.

Which would also line up with his willingness to kill her later—he was directly ordered to do it, when he had the perfect opportunity to do so earlier and chose to let her and co. fall from the tubes.

My take on Kizaru is, he'll drag his feet on anything that contrasts his world view, though ultimately the job takes priority over everything else.

 

[Owl Ki]

people are surprised that a post time skip OP character is acting inconsistent? lmaoooooo

Not gonna lie, after seeing Oda turn my man Whitebeard into Whiteboard, I don't really care that he potentially undercooked Kizaru. Man was always the least interesting Admiral to me.

 

[Alexis2282AE]

KIZARU STOCKS RISING!!! 🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥

 

[zzShinichi]

WTF I woke up this morning to see Kizaru's upscale and by proxy, Fujitora's upscale

 

[ZenZu]

This pane/reaction is important in hindsight and explains Kizaru's mindset

He believed he could take advantage of WSG and stay "inactive"(hence why he was still shown resting/sitting after Luffy being fed despite being fully mobile and perception blitzing everyone) while hoping Luffy would manage to have Sentoumaru & co escape. But once Kuma arrived and punched the shit out of a gorosei, he knew he had to get his ass back to work if he wants to stay credible.

Knowing he has a "brotherly" relationship with Akainu and has been loyal to the Navy for 3 decades, openly betraying his bro and subordinates because of his personal feelings would make him very selfish. I doubt it was the first morally fucked up mission he took part in.

Completely checks out.

>Resolved to kill Stella before entering the island. [x]
>Admits he would rather not hurt those outside the original mission parameters. [x]
>Takes WSG, realizes he can use this to his advantage and allow his friends to escape, decides to feed Luffy to support this. [x]
>Saturn gets punched in the face, stakes just got bigger and he's still a man of duty, Kizaru can no longer disrespect his position. [x]
>Gets back up, haphazardly tries to follow orders (striking the tube instead of the SHs, letting the Pacifista take out Bonney), kills Stella.
>Overcome with emotion from killing Stella, uses Luffy to once again stay down, for good this time. Mentally checked out. [x][x]


It would be dope if the anime, at the end of the arc, showed Kizaru feeding Luffy, such an important plot point and character moment and Oda left it to an SBS when it's right there in the middle of the arc. Aside from that, this would be pretty solid writing.

My take on Kizaru is, he'll drag his feet on anything that contrasts his world view, though ultimately the job takes priority over everything else.

Goated character

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

Not gonna lie, after seeing Oda turn my man Whitebeard into Whiteboard, I don't really care that he potentially undercooked Kizaru. Man was always the least interesting Admiral to me.

He did a lot more with Kizaru than I expected him

I thought he would have no depth of anykind

 

[Garp the Fist]

people are surprised that a post time skip OP character is acting inconsistent? lmaoooooo

I’m really disappointed, yeah. I genuinely thought that scene of Kizaru finally showing real emotion and giving Akainu a bollocking was a great cap to Kizaru‘s arc.

Now I’m seeing attempts at justifying him trying to kill his friends, but not too hard, then trying to save his friends, but not too hard, then trying to kill them and actually succeeding in one case, then taking a raging bitch fit when he’s called out on it.

Guys, just attempt he’s a fucking shambles of a character but you are happy because he’s at least no longer an absolute joke of a top tier lmao.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Completely checks out.

>Resolved to kill Stella before entering the island. [x]
>Admits he would rather not hurt those outside the original mission parameters. [x]
>Takes WSG, realizes he can use this to his advantage and allow his friends to escape, decides to feed Luffy to support this. [x]
>Saturn gets punched in the face, stakes just got bigger and he's still a man of duty, Kizaru can no longer disrespect his position. [x]
>Gets back up, haphazardly tries to follow orders (striking the tube instead of the SHs, letting the Pacifista take out Bonney), kills Stella.
>Overcome with emotion from killing Stella, uses Luffy to once again stay down, for good this time. Mentally checked out. [x][x]


It would be dope if the anime, at the end of the arc, showed Kizaru feeding Luffy, such an important plot point and character moment and Oda left it to an SBS when it's right there in the middle of the arc. Aside from that, this would be pretty solid writing.

Goated character

Kizaru’s Egghead character was as goated as his Shabondy character was lacking. Anyone complaining about “inconsistency” is self reporting that they can’t read worth shit lol.

Oda really came through with Kizaru. One of the few elements of this manga that Oda didn’t completely fuck up beyond repair.

 

[Owl Ki]

He did a lot more with Kizaru than I expected him

I thought he would have no depth of anykind

I'm not going to pretend that I liked it. I remember saying that I preferred cold, sadist Pre-TS Kizaru on a DM chat. I remember making a post about how certain characters Post-TS just don't resemble their Pre-TS selves.

Bege was an example I remember using. Pre-TS Bege was regularly abusing his subordinates, stabbing them in the eye and whatnot.

Post-TS Bege goes full Vin Diesel "family" mode with his men. This ain't the same guy, Oda changed his mind on this man. Lol.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

It would be dope if the anime, at the end of the arc, showed Kizaru feeding Luffy, such an important plot point and character moment and Oda left it to an SBS when it's right there in the middle of the arc. Aside from that, this would be pretty solid writing.

They're taking a six month break or something, right? Hopefully they can cook up a good storyboard that gives life to shit like Lucci v. Zoro and Kizaru v. Luffy.

Give it the TYBW treatment

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

I'm not going to pretend that I liked it. I remember saying that I preferred cold, sadist Pre-TS Kizaru on a DM chat. I remember making a post about how certain characters Post-TS just don't resemble their Pre-TS selves.

Bege was an example I remember using. Pre-TS Bege was regularly abusing his subordinates, stabbing them in the eye and whatnot.

Post-TS Bege goes full Vin Diesel "family" mode with his men. This ain't the same guy, Oda changed his mind on this man. Lol.

In cases like with Bege I don't really mind because of how minor, but yeah some changes are ridiculous

Roger went from a "real" pirate to Gol D Luffy

Sengoku has been portrayed in a way more positive light

Lucci went from an enemy of WG to celestial lapdog

The only "gigantic" change that seemed natural was Kuzan

 

[Dragon777]

I’m really disappointed, yeah. I genuinely thought that scene of Kizaru finally showing real emotion and giving Akainu a bollocking was a great cap to Kizaru‘s arc.

Now I’m seeing attempts at justifying him trying to kill his friends, but not too hard, then trying to save his friends, but not too hard, then trying to kill them and actually succeeding in one case, then taking a raging bitch fit when he’s called out on it.

Guys, just attempt he’s a fucking shambles of a character but you are happy because he’s at least no longer an absolute joke of a top tier lmao.

We have tried to tell you: saving Vegapunk was wrong, but Kizaru was willing to do It with the limit of not rebelling/being found out.

That's It.

 

[ZenZu]

Kizaru’s Egghead character was as goated as his Shabondy character was lacking. Anyone complaining about “inconsistency” is self reporting that they can’t read worth shit lol.

Oda really came through with Kizaru. One of the few elements of this manga that Oda didn’t completely fuck up beyond repair.

I'm surprised Oda still had it in him. Marines in general seem to bring the best out of him, probably because they are far more grounded in reality type of characters, as opposed to the cartoonishly evil Yonkou.

Still can't draw fights for shit, no excuse to waste panels on a bunch of nothing instead of expanding on logia abilities.....but that's just classic Oda, that will never change. Only when it is time for someone to fall will he reveal abilities. I'm afraid there is a good chance we never get to see what an all out Kizaru looks like...

But yea Oda has created a banger of a character from preskip to postskip. He expanded on what looked to be an emotionless psychopathic villain into someone with a heart, and somehow still made it true to Kizaru's character. Is Kizaru a good guy? I wouldn't say so, heck I wouldn't even say the version of him we knew before egghead was a lie, that Kizaru is just as real, but what Egghead showed was he is human. Even the coldest of individuals have heart when it comes to family and friends.

The more you learn about a single individual the more multifaceted/multilayered they are, real people aren't one note. Hope people don't get the wrong idea and think Kizaru is an angel, not even close to it (he's still one of the coldest characters in the series), rather it just shows depth.

 

[Garp the Fist]

We have tried to tell you: saving Vegapunk was wrong, but Kizaru was willing to do It with the limit of not rebelling/being found out.

That's It.

Clearly this genius piece of writing has done a good job, as I am being told

-Kizaru was never trying to save Vegapunk, who he had given up for lost from the beginning, he was only trying to save those he could

or

-Kizaru was trying to save everyone as long as he didn’t get caught

or

-Kizaru briefly tried to save everyone then gave up and started going for mercy kills instead

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

In cases like with Bege I don't really mind because of how minor, but yeah some changes are ridiculous

Roger went from a "real" pirate to Gol D Luffy

Sengoku has been portrayed in a way more positive light

Lucci went from an enemy of WG to celestial lapdog

The only "gigantic" change that seemed natural was Kuzan

Sengoku still killed all those pregnant women though

 

[Dragon777]

-Kizaru was trying to save everyone as long as he didn’t get caught

For me, It's clearly this.