EOS: Top 10 Generals

#21
What's your logic for ranking Renpa, Ousen and Ouki.

I don't disagree with the order, just curious
Ren Pa - sheer versatility. Ungodly charisma. Deep tactical and strategic knowledge. A genetic freak with rare martial ability AND the ONLY known natural Hybid Type in the series. Total monster. He also went up against the toughest competition around.

Historically there's no argument for Ou Sen and Ou Ki, but in the context of Kingdom, I think Ou Sen will edge out Ou Ki by quality of wins and forging a more lasting legacy through his achievements.

The ranking says nothing of how any of them would fare against each other. I have Ri Boku as #1 but he's also one of the weaker generals on this list when it comes to straightforward battle.
 
Last edited:
#24
Hypothetical prime Kyou:

Strength: 94
Leadership: 99
Intelligence: 95

Basically same type as Yotanwa, but a slightly discount version.
Kyou gave Hou Ken WORK. You don't think she'd improve beyond STR 94?

imo, Hara wasn't the least it subtle giving her absurd stats in relative youth (94-97-95). She likely would've peaked, I think, at STR 97 LDR 99 INT 97. Obscene stats, but worthy of the blood of King Sho, a prodigy of warfare.
 
#25
Kyou gave Hou Ken WORK. You don't think she'd improve beyond STR 94?
No, she clearly did worse then Duke Hyou and Kyoukai.

If you look at the first batch of stats of other young prodigies like Kanki and Yotanwa, they didn't improve their strengh since their introduction. Some people just hit their martial peak early.
 
#27
No, she clearly did worse then Duke Hyou and Kyoukai.
Kyou Kai belongs in her own category of martial freak.

Duke Hyou had a lifetime of weight to draw from and I don't actually agree he did better than Kyou, who actually did stab him up a bit.



If you look at the first batch of stats of other young prodigies like Kanki and Yotanwa, they didn't improve their strengh since their introduction. Some people just hit their martial peak early.
I think the static nature of Hara's stats reflect the inherent flaws of stats, not stagnation.

All the same, Kyou was special compared to those two, legend of her prowess on offense has persisted long after her passing, even though she wasn't a 6GG for very long.

Agree to disagree but imo nothing about Kyou dying so tragically young suggests she was close to done improving across the board.
 
Last edited:
#28
Agree to disagree but imo nothing about Kyou dying so tragically young suggests she was close to done improving across the board.
Look at the first batch of Yotanwa's stats during the first arcs of manga.

95/99/95

This is her in what seem to be her late 20's / early 30's. Since then she only improved two points overall before hiting her peak. Kyou being a similar early bloomer is not out of the question.

Hara often does this thing where he parallels a member of the old gen with the new and makes the new an improved version. Yotanwa is the closest paralel to Kyou with both of them being military woman of royal bloodline that were offensive commanders using swords.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#29
I waited a couple of days to reply here.

So obviously the manga ranking is different from the history ranking. This is how I think Hara will handle the manga:

1. Shin: I could see Hara not making him the goat at EOS, but for now I think he will probably have the best achievements. He will be a major player in the fall of literally every state. Here are my predictions for his involvements:

-Vice commander of the Han campaign, Tou will be able to fall Han largely because of how the Hi Shin Unit befriended the people of Nanyou. I don’t think this Han battle is about to be some enormous battle but I think Han will largely fall because of Shin regardless.

-The Qin commander who will capture Yan Prince Entan and his personal guard. This is an entire rabbit hole but for all intents and purposes, Shin will be the commander who ultimately death-blows Yan.

-He has already been heavily involved in the fall of Zhao, and I think he will probably have big involvement in the next and final Zhao campaign with Ousen ultimately being the Qin commander who takes out Zhao.

-Chu: I could go on a 1,000 word rant about why I think Shin will defeat and slay both Kou En and Renpa in Chu, but for now I’ll just say again that I think it will happen and leave it at that.

-Wei: He’ll kill Gaimou in a big duel I guess, Ouhon will be the commander credited with destroying Wei.

-Qi: And of course I think Shin and Ouhon will defeat Ousen in a joint battle if Ousen really is the final villain of Kingdom.

So yeah, Shin top 1 for now.

2. Ouhon: I think Hara is setting up these two as the number 1 and number 2. Ouhon and Shin have had a consistent rivalry developing into a friendship for the whole series and I don’t see that changing. Ouhon will be credited for destroying Wei and Yan and will be heavily involved in Chu as well.

3. Ousen: I’m only putting him this low because I think Shin and Ouhon will beat him if he really is the final Qi King. But if Hara doesn’t pan that out, I could see Ousen being the number 1 ever since he beats Zhao and Chu.

4. Moubu: I did a whole thread on EOS Moubu and why ultimately the whole reason Ousen beat Kou En was because Chu was incapable of stopping Moubu. Historically there are even some reports that Moubu’s army cornered and killed Kou En himself. But I think Moubu will take out the Chu capital and the Baiyue Tribes.

5. Mouten: Depends on how far into the series Hara goes as if we get to see Mouten facing the Xiongnu, I would put him this high. Otherwise the number 5 spot I would give to Kou En or Riboku. Or maybe Hakuki/Gakuki.

Cutting it here for now.
 
#30
I waited a couple of days to reply here.

So obviously the manga ranking is different from the history ranking. This is how I think Hara will handle the manga:

1. Shin: I could see Hara not making him the goat at EOS, but for now I think he will probably have the best achievements. He will be a major player in the fall of literally every state. Here are my predictions for his involvements:

-Vice commander of the Han campaign, Tou will be able to fall Han largely because of how the Hi Shin Unit befriended the people of Nanyou. I don’t think this Han battle is about to be some enormous battle but I think Han will largely fall because of Shin regardless.

-The Qin commander who will capture Yan Prince Entan and his personal guard. This is an entire rabbit hole but for all intents and purposes, Shin will be the commander who ultimately death-blows Yan.

-He has already been heavily involved in the fall of Zhao, and I think he will probably have big involvement in the next and final Zhao campaign with Ousen ultimately being the Qin commander who takes out Zhao.

-Chu: I could go on a 1,000 word rant about why I think Shin will defeat and slay both Kou En and Renpa in Chu, but for now I’ll just say again that I think it will happen and leave it at that.

-Wei: He’ll kill Gaimou in a big duel I guess, Ouhon will be the commander credited with destroying Wei.

-Qi: And of course I think Shin and Ouhon will defeat Ousen in a joint battle if Ousen really is the final villain of Kingdom.

So yeah, Shin top 1 for now.

2. Ouhon: I think Hara is setting up these two as the number 1 and number 2. Ouhon and Shin have had a consistent rivalry developing into a friendship for the whole series and I don’t see that changing. Ouhon will be credited for destroying Wei and Yan and will be heavily involved in Chu as well.

3. Ousen: I’m only putting him this low because I think Shin and Ouhon will beat him if he really is the final Qi King. But if Hara doesn’t pan that out, I could see Ousen being the number 1 ever since he beats Zhao and Chu.

4. Moubu: I did a whole thread on EOS Moubu and why ultimately the whole reason Ousen beat Kou En was because Chu was incapable of stopping Moubu. Historically there are even some reports that Moubu’s army cornered and killed Kou En himself. But I think Moubu will take out the Chu capital and the Baiyue Tribes.

5. Mouten: Depends on how far into the series Hara goes as if we get to see Mouten facing the Xiongnu, I would put him this high. Otherwise the number 5 spot I would give to Kou En or Riboku. Or maybe Hakuki/Gakuki.

Cutting it here for now.
As crazy as that would be, Shin slaying both Renpa and Kouen will probably be the case. Him vs Renpa is a foreshadowed match since Sanyou, and Kouen will crush Shin horribly, in a moment where his prestige (and the trust Sei had for him) were so high that he had been appointed as the supreme commander to beat Chu.

Him slaying Renpa probably puts Shin above any Qin Six or Great Heaven of King Sho's era, to face then Chu's Tiger who is probably even above that.
 
#31
Look at the first batch of Yotanwa's stats during the first arcs of manga.

95/99/95

This is her in what seem to be her late 20's / early 30's. Since then she only improved two points overall before hiting her peak. Kyou being a similar early bloomer is not out of the question.

Hara often does this thing where he parallels a member of the old gen with the new and makes the new an improved version. Yotanwa is the closest paralel to Kyou with both of them being military woman of royal bloodline that were offensive commanders using swords.
Numbers, grades, ranks - there is no stat system that doesn't come with problems. Stats are inherently arbitrary, i.e. bullshit, so you're going to have issues with any activity or lack thereof. That's why I'm saying static stats should not be taken as reflection of stagnation, especially when the primary source doesn't suggest any of the sort

I also don't buy that YTW is an analogue to Kyou or was even intended to be, never mind an improved version. The only substantive thing they have in common beside gender (the royal blood thing is murky) is being generational leaders, but YTW is very much a different person. She's not one to get caught up in anyone's orbit, its her gravity as a king that attracts other.

That's just speaking on them as individuals. As far talent goes, Kyou was a 6GG in her 20s and her legend still persists despite her time being cut short. I don't think YTW's peak will match what hers could've been.

Kyou's modern analogue is Kyou Kai. They are ferocious on offense and have great leadership skills, yes, but aside from being generally unreasonable people, there's also a softness and sensitivity to them, they dedicated themselves to someone else. I think Hara very much intends for the audience to see Kyou Kai as an analogue to Kyou, though I don't know if she has the potential to match.


Like Kyou Kai, Kyou was active on the battlefield as a teenager, only with far greater success than her or anyone else for that matter.



Shou Bun Kun spoke of her as being loved by the god of war.

Hou Ken identified her as a threat specifically on grounds of his wacked out spirituality.

You simply don't waste this kind of absurd hype on a character you kill off young UNLESS it's your intention to make it clear they WOULD HAVE been something truly special given enough time - therein lies part of the tragedy.

Audiences identify with wasted potential because we see and experience that in the most visceral and personal ways.
 
Last edited:
#32
Numbers, grades, ranks - there is no stat system that doesn't come with problems. Stats are inherently arbitrary, i.e. bullshit, so you're going to have issues with any activity or lack thereof. That's why I'm saying static stats should not be taken as reflection of stagnation, especially when the primary source doesn't suggest any of the sort
Making a prediction of characters future stats based on how other characters are growing and how existing patterns are shaping is valid. And since statements and hype as open to interpretation what the "primary source" suggests should also be taken with a grain of salt.

I also don't buy that YTW is an analogue to Kyou or was even intended to be, never mind an improved version. The only substantive thing they have in common beside gender (the royal blood thing is murky) is being generational leaders, but YTW is very much a different person. She's not one to get caught up in anyone's orbit, its her gravity as a king that attracts other.

That's just speaking on them as individuals. As far talent goes, Kyou was a 6GG in her 20s and her legend still persists despite her time being cut short. I don't think YTW's peak will match what hers could've been.
Kyoukai is closer to Kyou in terms of her role in the plot, but in terms of style Yotanwa seem to be better comparison due to her more agressive style. Plus we still don't know if Kyoukai is even set up to become 6GG and what her future will be while Yotanwa is already hodling the position.

Yotanwa became a leader of her own state in also what seem to be her 20's and carved a decently sized territory on the map. She couldn't become 6GG at young age, because the system didn't exist until Eisei brought it back. Like... you think it's not important that Hara gave Yotanwa the highest stats in history of 6GG? He clearly sees her as something special. Yotanwa was mostly active in a different region then central plains so her name didn't spread to the same extent, but thats not really her fault.

Like Kyou Kai, Kyou was active on the battlefield as a teenager, only with far greater success than her or anyone else for that matter.
Same as Yotanwa. She literally defeated the strongest warrior of the mountain realm at the time (Shunmen) as a teenager or young adult and later did what was considered unimaginable before (united Xirong tribes).

You simply don't waste this kind of absurd hype on a character you kill off young UNLESS it's your intention to make it clear they WOULD HAVE been something truly special given enough time - therein lies part of the tragedy.
I just don't think her talent is as good as you make it out to be. There's multiple characters in the story that are hyped as prodigies at warfare or that achieved great things at young age. For example Moubu was already hyped as having stronger offense then her in the early portions of the story. Kanki was considered the greatest man in Qin at turning the tables and the symbol of Qin before his death etc. I think there's a clear favoritism Hara is giving the current generation, since they are set up to complete the unification.
 
#33
Assuming EoS is end of unification:



1. Shin
2. Ousen
3. Gakuki ( Shin will surpass him based on raw ability, Ousen with combination of raw ability + getting close to Gakuki's experience)
4. Kouen
5. Shouheikun
6. Riboku

Will probably have to think on the rest a bit more. But... the series could just end with Gakuki remaining Top 1 (since Liu Bang considers him Top 1).



Assuming EoS is rise of Liu Bang:

1. Liu Bang / Xiang Yu
2. Xiang Yu / Liu Bang
No idea how Hara will treat these two in their roles. Where Xiang Yu can be the superior military personal whle Liu Bang more well-rounded as an entity.

3. Ri Shin
4. Mouten
5. Ouhon

These three will have gotten stronger from the various campaigns.
 
#34
Making a prediction of characters future stats based on how other characters are growing and how existing patterns are shaping is valid. And since statements and hype as open to interpretation what the "primary source" suggests should also be taken with a grain of salt.
That is why context is king, and there is no context that would suggests stagnation.

Kyoukai is closer to Kyou in terms of her role in the plot, but in terms of style Yotanwa seem to be better comparison due to her more agressive style. Plus we still don't know if Kyoukai is even set up to become 6GG and what her future will be while Yotanwa is already hodling the position.
I'd say she's closer to Tou in that her approach will be based on whatever the enemy and circumstances give her to work with rather than defined style or preference. At Retsubi, she surveyed for weaknesses and exploited them. At Ryouyou, she picked up the pace because of the food supply. At Hango, she hung back without overcommitting. It's a limited sample size, but I would not describe YTW's style as aggressive.

Kyou Kai seems to be Hara's favourite character, so if she states a goal, I'm of the mindset it's likely to happen. I'm not particularly invested in seeing her climb the ranks but I'm along for the ride.

Yotanwa became a leader of her own state in also what seem to be her 20's and carved a decently sized territory on the map. She couldn't become 6GG at young age, because the system didn't exist until Eisei brought it back. Like... you think it's not important that Hara gave Yotanwa the highest stats in history of 6GG? He clearly sees her as something special. Yotanwa was mostly active in a different region then central plains so her name didn't spread to the same extent, but thats not really her fault.
Revealing YTW's rank in nobility being on "on par" with a GG (I can see how but wish Hara explained it) was a nice way for Hara to signpost her level of talent, but that appointment itself was not given on the basis of aptitude. It was given in gratitude and, imo, meant to telegraph a hopeful reflection of the king Sei wishes to become.

I also think you're overstating the size of YTW's realm and what that meant prior her joining hands with Sei. I'm sure it's grown tremendously since but her terrain was considered pretty remote at least the start of the series. Even as recent as the current year in the timeline Qin had stateless, ungoverned zones with populations large enough to yield hundreds of thousands of military age, able-bodied men without tapping out the sources (meaning the actual population is even bigger).

YTW is a messianic figure to her people. I'm not doubting how special or talented she is, but I don't think her promise is hinted as being equal to Kyou, whose hype was absurd even by Kingdom standards. Never mind greater.

Same as Yotanwa. She literally defeated the strongest warrior of the mountain realm at the time (Shunmen) as a teenager or young adult and later did what was considered unimaginable before (united Xirong tribes).
An impressive feat, no doubt, but I don't put those kinds of 1v1s on the level with achievements on a real battlefield with more sophisticated strategy and tactics.

Kyou came up during the golden years of the Warring States. Not only was she claiming heads well before she met King Sho at age 16, it didn't take her long to become a general after that, or a 6GG after she hit that milestone - improving massively after each one.



Again, no one has this kind of hype.

I just don't think her talent is as good as you make it out to be. There's multiple characters in the story that are hyped as prodigies at warfare or that achieved great things at young age. For example Moubu was already hyped as having stronger offense then her in the early portions of the story. Kanki was considered the greatest man in Qin at turning the tables and the symbol of Qin before his death etc. I think there's a clear favoritism Hara is giving the current generation, since they are set up to complete the unification.
Hara hasn't paused for longer than 5 minutes to praise Ou Ki since he died so idk about clear favouritism.

Mou Bu was in his mid 30s at the beginning of the series and lacked both judgment and experience. Perhaps that would've been different in the same era, or perhaps he would've gotten himself killed. Either way, he and Tou still live in Ou Ki's shadow to an extent and I don't think either has or will surpass Ou Ki.

YTW has been sidelined for most of her tenure. Kan Ki fucked himself and died 0-1 against equivalent talent. Ou Sen is the only one I feel might be flat out better than those mfers and Hara all but outright confirmed he was on par with the original generation to begin with.

Earl Shi is the closest in terms of career trajectory. Rin Shou Jo was set up as the ultimate what if in his own way, but not so much in terms of raw talent or even intellect - I think it was his wisdom that was the real danger for his adversaries.

Ri Boku, by all indications, was a late bloomer in life and I have that mfer #1 so I don't think it really matters all that much in the grand sceheme of things, but I do think Hara was clear Kyou was different and special even by the circles she travelled in.
 
Last edited:
#35
Kyoukai,Ouhon, Mouten, Shin right now are in their late 20s. Kyou at the same/similar age of late 20s was some years into being a Qin 6 member who was only rising in prowess the more she warred.

Kyou is the greatest prodigy that we know of in the series. King Sho bloodline wank is real.
 
#36
Kyoukai right now is in her late 20s. Kyou at the same/similar age of late 20s was some years into being a Qin 6 member who was only rising in prowess the more she warred.

Kyou is the greatest prodigy that we know of in the series. King Sho bloodline wank is real.
I agree Hara - at least at the time - was trying to make that clear, but in fairness: Kyou did come up in pretty much the perfect era and circumstances.

There was nothing but opportunity in her time, and she had the backing of Ou Ki and later the king her entire career. How well would any of the characters have fared under such circumstances?

YTW's the odd woman out here on account of her upbringing, but it's not like she started at the top either, she had to forge her kingdom conquering one tribe at a time.

In terms of overall potential, Kyou remains pretty singular, but in terms of rising through the ranks and becoming a 6GG when she did - I think there's plenty of others in Qin alone that could've achieved that.
 
#37
That is why context is king, and there is no context that would suggests stagnation.
And I'm not saying she stagnated. I'm saying that at this point she was reasonably close to reaching her peak. Kind off like characters such as Yotanwa, Riboku or Tou during Coalition War. So at this point they still had 1-3 points more to improve, but not more then that. Her further growth would go more or less the same path as those characters.

I'd say she's closer to Tou in in that her approach will be based on whatever the enemy and circumstances give her to work with. At Retsubi, she looked for weaknesses and exploited them. At Ryouyou, she picked up the pace because of the food supply. At Hango, she hung back without overcommitting. It's a limited sample size, but I would not describe YTW's style as aggressive.
In most of those battles she was on the offensive aiming either for key tagets such as generals heads or taking the city. Hango was a case where she was more causious, but from her perspective the battle was just geting started and she couldn't predict Ousen will get crushed this fast.

I also think you're overstating the size of YTW's realm and what that meant prior her joining hands with Sei. I'm sure it's grown tremendously since but her terrain was considered pretty remote at least the start of the series. Even as recent as the current year in the timeline Qin had stateless, ungoverned zones with populations large enough to yield hundreds of thousands of military age, able-bodied men without tapping out the sources (meaning the actual population is even bigger).
Yotanwa was stated to control most mountain realms west to Qin and her terrain bordering Northern Horseman Tribes north. So while we never saw it on the map, if you look how large Qin is, her own state also had to be decent size.

An impressive feat, no doubt, but I don't put those kinds of 1v1s on the level with achievements on a real battlefield with more sophisticated strategy and tactics.
Cool. I'm sure Yotanwa was also using sofisticated strategy and tactics during her conquests. In both cases we haven't seen those wars in action so I don't see how to compare their tactics other then using their knowledge stat as a reference.

Kyou came up during the golden years of the Warring States. Not only was she claiming heads well before she met King Sho at age 16, it didn't take her long to become a general after that, or a 6GG after she hit that milestone - improving massively after each one.

Again, no one has this kind of hype.
And again, Yotanwa was doing the job of an general / great general since similarly young age, but since she didn't operate in central plains it wen't mostly unnoticed. I don't think Kyou was that special at all in the grand scheme of things. She was a prodigy for sure, but one of the many.

Hara hasn't paused for longer than 5 minutes to praise Ou Ki since he died so idk about clear favouritism.

Mou Bu was in his mid 30s at the beginning of the series and lacked both judgment and experience. Perhaps that would've been different in the same era, or perhaps he would've gotten himself killed. Either way, he and Tou still live in Ou Ki's shadow to an extent and I don't think either has or will surpass Ou Ki.

YTW has been sidelined for most of her tenure. Kan Ki fucked himself and died 0-1 against equivalent talent. Ou Sen is the only one I feel might be flat out better than those mfers and Hara all but outright confirmed he was on par with the original generation to begin with.

Earl Shi is the closest in terms of career trajectory. Rin Shou Jo was set up as the ultimate what if in his own way, but not so much in terms of raw talent or even intellect - I think it was his wisdom that the real danger for his adversaries.

Ri Boku, by all indications, was a late bloomer in life and I have that mfer #1 so I don't think it really matters all that much in the grand sceheme of things, but I do think Hara was clear Kyou was different and special even by the circles she travelled in.
Tou seem to lack personal ambition, so I don't think Hara wants him to stay around for long as a commander, but we'll see. As for the rest of them, yeah I think they will surpass Ouki as the future conquerors of China. They will likely never be as well balanced commanders like he was, but they are absolute cream of the crop specialists in their respective categories. We are still at early stages of conquest and they will have plenty opportunities to shine.
 
#38
I agree Hara - at least at the time - was trying to make that clear, but in fairness: Kyou did come up in pretty much the perfect era and circumstances.

There was nothing but opportunity in her time, and she had the backing of Ou Ki and later the king her entire career. How well would any of the characters have fared under such circumstances?

YTW's the odd woman out here on account of her upbringing, but it's not like she started at the top either, she had to forge her kingdom conquering one tribe at a time.

In terms of overall potential, Kyou remains pretty singular, but in terms of rising through the ranks and becoming a 6GG when she did - I think there's plenty of others in Qin alone that could've achieved that.
Hmm, in terms of opportunities I'm not sure about that since the information on that era is limited and we dont know the number of wars she's actively participated in or the number that occurred.

I can't take into account any of Ouki's backing until I know what specficially he did for her that'd give her the advantage over the others. Mouten and Ouhon are both from elite families who are rich. Mouten learning directly under SHK who learned under Koushou. And iirc, King Sho didn't influence anything for her directly, and I can't assume he did without any implications of it. And if Ouki taught her or he let her progress on her own because she wanted to prove something to him so she didn't want his help. There's too many unknowns for this imo. But I think Ouhon and Mouten still come from more advantageous scenario. Karyo Ten, Kyoukai and Shin might be the ones where I can go "yea if they were given the same benefits they could bloom earlier" etc.

I was going to mention Yotanwa as well. But it's hard for me to gauge Yotanwa. YTW spent majority of her life fighting in the mountains, her prowess is best utilized in the mountains warfare rather than the plains. Cause in terms of raw potential I would say its a contest between her and Kyou. But I just exclude her from the convo when talking about generals of the Plains now.

If I'm to assume she was 28 (wiki estimates it at late 20s time of death). If she was Qin 6 for roughly even 3 years, that'd take her to the age of 25 when she got promoted to the same rank as Hakuki, Ouki,etc. And she was already declared on their level by the narrator before even before becoming a Qin 6 (likely around age of 23-25). I think Shin and maybe Hyou are the only ones who I can vouch for, that had they been raised up similar they could've done it.
 
#39
I waited a couple of days to reply here.

So obviously the manga ranking is different from the history ranking. This is how I think Hara will handle the manga:

1. Shin: I could see Hara not making him the goat at EOS, but for now I think he will probably have the best achievements. He will be a major player in the fall of literally every state. Here are my predictions for his involvements:

-Vice commander of the Han campaign, Tou will be able to fall Han largely because of how the Hi Shin Unit befriended the people of Nanyou. I don’t think this Han battle is about to be some enormous battle but I think Han will largely fall because of Shin regardless.

-The Qin commander who will capture Yan Prince Entan and his personal guard. This is an entire rabbit hole but for all intents and purposes, Shin will be the commander who ultimately death-blows Yan.

-He has already been heavily involved in the fall of Zhao, and I think he will probably have big involvement in the next and final Zhao campaign with Ousen ultimately being the Qin commander who takes out Zhao.

-Chu: I could go on a 1,000 word rant about why I think Shin will defeat and slay both Kou En and Renpa in Chu, but for now I’ll just say again that I think it will happen and leave it at that.

-Wei: He’ll kill Gaimou in a big duel I guess, Ouhon will be the commander credited with destroying Wei.

-Qi: And of course I think Shin and Ouhon will defeat Ousen in a joint battle if Ousen really is the final villain of Kingdom.

So yeah, Shin top 1 for now.

2. Ouhon: I think Hara is setting up these two as the number 1 and number 2. Ouhon and Shin have had a consistent rivalry developing into a friendship for the whole series and I don’t see that changing. Ouhon will be credited for destroying Wei and Yan and will be heavily involved in Chu as well.

3. Ousen: I’m only putting him this low because I think Shin and Ouhon will beat him if he really is the final Qi King. But if Hara doesn’t pan that out, I could see Ousen being the number 1 ever since he beats Zhao and Chu.

4. Moubu: I did a whole thread on EOS Moubu and why ultimately the whole reason Ousen beat Kou En was because Chu was incapable of stopping Moubu. Historically there are even some reports that Moubu’s army cornered and killed Kou En himself. But I think Moubu will take out the Chu capital and the Baiyue Tribes.

5. Mouten: Depends on how far into the series Hara goes as if we get to see Mouten facing the Xiongnu, I would put him this high. Otherwise the number 5 spot I would give to Kou En or Riboku. Or maybe Hakuki/Gakuki.

Cutting it here for now.
1. Shin
2. Ousen
3. Gakuki ( Shin will surpass him based on raw ability, Ousen with combination of raw ability + getting close to Gakuki's experience)
4. Kouen
5. Shouheikun
6. Riboku
What am I seeing here
The Riboku downplay is wild, usually I get smack for placing Ousen and Riboku in the same tier, but that’s because I think the Ousen that will topple Chu is more or less on the same level as current Ousen (he’ll gain a better army that’s it, a little bit of experience too)

You know you done fucked up when I’m the one backing Riboku
 
#40
What am I seeing here
The Riboku downplay is wild, usually I get smack for placing Ousen and Riboku in the same tier, but that’s because I think the Ousen that will topple Chu is more or less on the same level as current Ousen (he’ll gain a better army that’s it, a little bit of experience too)

You know you done fucked up when I’m the one backing Riboku
Yea difference is I think Ousen will get even better strategically over the decade with the amount of unparalleled warfare Qin will be engaging in.

The scale of warfare Qin is engaging in is unrivaled anytime before that, why would he only gain a little experience from that? If he goes from his current experience at A rank to near the top of S rank, above Hakuki and Ouki, that's a huge boost in experience. Let alone if he goes into the SS realm as the God of Military.

This also doesn't take into account martial development, which I see happening personally. And his lack of martial capabilities/willingness is part of the reason why I don't rank him high as Riboku or even SHK.


SHK will also continue to stack experience in parallel to Ousen. On top of that his martial capabilities are at another level compared to Riboku's, no reason for me to not believe as a general he wouldn't peak out above Riboku.

Kouen, just different.

Gakuki, Riboku will die premature

It's not really Riboku downplay, as it is having higher projection for what others will end up becoming from the insane warfare.


All of this is also just about on battlefield general. Where as Riboku's real uniqueness comes from being the top general + Prime Minister + Chief of Military at the Sametime. That's going to remain unmatched outside of Gakuki who did it better.
 
Top