Chapter Discussion "THE" Elbaph POLITICAL conflict

[Luffy is the mc]

I don't think there is a name for this phenomenon in narration, but I have a strong "bad" feeling about the situation as a whole.

- Luffy just lied and made a promisse with Loki, a giant that only wants one thing: blood and war.
- The reunion with Sauf was amazing.. and Oda is making a point at showing how close and bonded the strawhat crew is
- We are in Elbaf and yet.. there is no real conflict (outside of the presence of Shanks/Banks and Loki) or no clear pressure or goal despite the arc being started for a long time now. This is the first time it happens like that.
-
- We are literally in the warland, the country that is the birthplace of war
- We know, because of all the narrative and symbolic clue since the start of Elbaph, that Ragnarok is coming that that Luffy is the trigger.
- We know that Ragnarok is a war and the end of the world as we know it.
- We know that this arc is important not only for Usopp and Luffy as character. Because they both had very big expectation of Elbaf.
- We know that the dream of Usopp is to become a proud warrior, just like the giant that he admired so much.
- We know that he and Luffy just learned that the giant stopped thinking about war and focused on peace.
- We know that Oda purpusefully casted out two giants for hundreds years to make us believe that Elbaph was the land of giant warriors too.
- This means that both Usopp's AND the expectations of a part of the fanbase were subverted and not necessarily in a good way (and that's intended that way).
- We know that Luffy and Zoro find them "Lame"
- We also know that Nami find the pride of the warriors of Dorry and Brogy "Lame" also. > cf Little Garden
- We know that that Herald was killed after trying to change the country into a peacefull one
- We know that Oda is taking reference on the woke VS conservative debate in our world
- We know that Loki killed his father.
- We can guess that Luffy is talking to one of the Elders who is taking advices from Loki and his not really doing a good job at his post
- We understand that Fear is fundamental for Loki and the protagonist to be a great warrior
- We know that Fear is fundamental to Usopp
- We also know that Pride is the FUNDAMENTAL to Usopp is this pride is heavily related to the vision he has of his father
- We know that Shanks is coming and with Shanks.. possibly Yassop
- We know that Oda is understanding that to change a generation - just like in Fishmen Island - the adults had to bury their feelings for the greater good. In fact you can see this with Ripley who explains "Do what I say, not what I do".

- Didn't you see that Oda, all along One Piece, cultivated the existing pride of a few members of the crew ? Usopp, Franky, Zoro, others had the opposite road, they had to learn to love themselves: Robin, Nami, Sanji, Chopper.. Other are just over that : Brook, Jinbe, Luffy

- We know that Loki is a trickster that influences both sides in Ragnarök
- Louis Arnot warned us not to stay to long

My guess ?

Louis Arnot is not talking about a curse or an exterior danger, but a problem inherent to the conflict between Progress and Pride present on the island and what it might create in crews... I think this island is about to create a philosophical and political conflict inside the crew. People will side with Loki, people will side with Ripley.

And there will be war on Elbaph...

And in the fanbase.

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BTW people, I added two new concepts that I think are also important in this arc. You can check back your votes.

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The Straw hats won't have infighting anymore.
And Loki will end up as a good guy, Oda already started to show that.

 

[Logiko]

And Loki will end up as a good guy, Oda already started to show that.

What I said do not negate that. It's very possible that Loki ends up being a good guy at the end.

The Straw hats won't have infighting anymore.

Debatable

 

[Warine]

"What is so special about Elbaf ?"

It's the birthplace of War of course.

If I'm right, you are about to see the start of... a very heated debate in the fanbase and.. the end of the strawhat crew.

About the poll, just vote for the concepts that you like the most.

Now, don't forget that I love to dramatize everything. I love to analyze storytelling and there are just very few informations right now. So I might just be confusing what I want to see based on the information I have and what will really happen.

But.. be ready, just in case.

You ve got tunnel vision

 

[Logiko]

You ve got tunnel vision

Maybe.. We will see

 

[Blax Blah]

The act of war is not a failure, it is a consequence of human nature, our countries are a reflection of our own nature, they are ruled by fear, ambition and selfishness, and that is something that will never change no matter how hard you try.
Kindness and empathy are strengths, but unfortunately they can't stop you from getting your head blown off by an Iwi Tar-21 bullet, you know what can? Resources, wealth, military strength.
Rulers who have only empathy and kindness are doomed to be pawns for the virtuous, look at Edward II and how pathetic he was.
And LOOK how his son did, he started the Hundred Years War, won huge victories at Crecy and Poitiers, killed every single one who betrayed his father and took back the throne to his family, he renovated the entire country's army the best in Europe, England's economy was also the best in the world under his reign.
Compare the England of Edward II, a compassionate and kind king, with the England of Edward III, and you will clearly see which one the civilians and their families were the happiest in, with plenty of resources, jobs and food!

So, yes, Kindness and Empathy are pretty good Strength qualities, but they are not even close to being good enough to protect the safety of your country and the people who are part of your country.
Kind and empathetic kings who don't value the importance of warfare are the absolute most trash kings ever in history, they are even worse than absolute trash scum like Hitler and Mussolini because they feed their own country and people to the virtuous kings.
Absolute garbage they are.

In my opinion kindness and empathy make the strongest societies from all points of view war and pride make the weakest,

As an example, if a nation actually focused on what is good for their people, not on military might, their military might would increase much more than if they focused on it specifically, because the people would have way better conditions to learn and grow, not that the military is good,

 

[AL sama]

this thread will be moved if we see real life political talk here

 

[Logiko]

Now that I think about it. I think I messed up the Poll. My point is not to ask you guyz for what will be Elbaf's political conflict (it's all of those).

My point was to see WHICH one of those concepts do you guyz prefer personnally.

@AL sama is it possible to restart the poll with this question : "What concepts do you prefer personnally ? You have 4 votes, choose carefully." while keeping all the concepts ? I don't think I can do that myself.

Also people, don"t let this >>

this thread will be moved if we see real life political talk here

.. Prevent you guyz from talking here.

This thread, I think, could be important during Elbaf. If the moderation consider that it should be moved in the political section - and I think they will probably think that very quickly, it's ok.

I just want them to understand that discussions about One Piece and discussions about politics and philosophy, especially in that case, can't be separated.

If you want to talk about real world stuff, go ahead. This thread moving is not the end of the world. Ragnarok is.

The act of war is not a failure, it is a consequence of human nature, our countries are a reflection of our own nature, they are ruled by fear, ambition and selfishness, and that is something that will never change no matter how hard you try.

There is no such thing as human nature. War is not something that comes from our biology, but from our failure as a society and the failure to progress toward peace. But most of all, it comes from the systems that structure our society and pushes us toward those type of conflict.

Now, war can sometimes be ineluctable or even necessary, but it's still a failure.

Rulers who have only empathy and kindness are doomed to be pawns for the virtuous

I don't believe that. Kindness and empathy does prevent us from being alert and be ready.

I think Oda will talk about just that.

And LOOK how his son did, he started the Hundred Years War, won huge victories at Crecy and Poitiers, killed every single one who betrayed his father and took back the throne to his family, he renovated the entire country's army the best in Europe, England's economy was also the best in the world under his reign.

And thus, the circle of violence was perpetuated.

but they are not even close to being good enough to protect the safety of your country and the people who are part of your country.

I don't believe that. I think that in our current age, being able to bound with others on a fundamental empathic and kind basis can be the difference between peace and war.

But for that, we also need to attack the system.. and in the case of One Piece, the problem is not really Elbaf, but the WG. and the system that pushes marines to go to war and could threatenns the giants.

Kind and empathetic kings who don't value the importance of warfare are the absolute most trash kings ever in history

Probably because the system only values strenght and not kindness.

In a different system, let's say a most progressive one, those person would be treated like heroes.

 

[D. Plant]

There is no grand scheme of design, or so called Utopia even though many people think they are living in one right now. I am saying both sides on Elbaph.
Luffy the chosen savior clearly was thinking about the words from Ripley and the kids.

 

[BattalGazi]

Howard wanted to create a nice world but Loki won't stand for it.

 

[Logiko]

There is no grand scheme of design, or so called Utopia even though many people think they are living in one right now. I am saying both sides on Elbaph.
Luffy the chosen savior clearly was thinking about the words from Ripley and the kids.

Actually, I think there is a way to create a utopia or something close to it. I've been talking about that in the political thread.

Now, clearly Elbaf can sustain its previous structuration. You can't build a viable society on pillaging and pride. You need to integrate education, love, care and the actions toward peace.

I'm on the side of the dead King here. And to think those kid are weaklins is an error too, those kids, if they see the reality of the world will have reason to be angry because of this specific loving and inclusive education and thus, they will be much stronger that if they were just relying on their pride.

It's what differenciate someone like Luffy from someone like Arlong. One has a reason to fight outside of himself, the other does not.

 

[Leadership101]

Hi!

We've just entered what might be one of the clearest political arcs in the history of One Piece.

So...

I'm creating a thread to focus the conversation just in case I'm right. Be sure to check back this thread as the arc progresses. Things could get very interesting!

REMEMBER:

There is no politic without conflict.

"Should you venture out and arrive on Elbaf's vast and mysterious soil.. Heed my simple warning :
"If I could only write one thing about this enticing nation, it would be this:"

"Do not linger there for too long"

- Louis Arnot, Explorer -​

 

[Logiko]

So... War then ?