Controversial General Political Discussion

[Ravagerblade]

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/ukraine-nuclear-weapons-and-security-assurances-glance
"Timeline

• July 16, 1990: Ukraine’s Declaration of Sovereignty
• July 31, 1991: The United States and the Soviet Union sign START
• Dec. 26, 1991: The Soviet Union officially dissolves, delaying entry into force of START
• Dec. 30, 1991: Minsk Agreement on Strategic Forces
  • The Commonwealth of Independent States agrees that strategic forces would be under the joint command of the former Soviet Union states
• May 23, 1992: Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, and the United States sign the Lisbon Protocol
  • The protocol calls for the return of nuclear weapons in three formerly Soviet states to Russia and for all states to be added to the START treaty and join the NPT
• Jan. 14, 1994: Ukraine, Russia, and the United States sign the Trilateral Statement
  • Ukraine commits to full disarmament, including strategic offensive weapons, in exchange for economic support and security assurances from the United States and Russia
• Sept. 4, 1993: Massandra Accords
  • Failed summit between Russian and Ukrainian governments
• Dec. 5, 1994: Russia, Ukraine, United States, and the United Kingdom sign the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances
  • Includes security assurances against the threat or use of force against Ukraine’s territory or political independence
• Dec. 5, 1994: Ukraine submits its instrument of accession to the NPT as a non-nuclear weapon state
  • The five START parties exchange instruments of ratification for START, which enters into force
• June 1, 1996: Ukraine transfers its last nuclear warhead to Russia
• October 30, 2001: Ukraine eliminates its last strategic nuclear weapon delivery vehicle
• Dec. 4, 2009: Joint Statement by Russia and the United States
  • The two countries confirm the security guarantees made in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum
• March 18, 2014: Russia annexes Ukraine's Crimean peninsula and provides supports an ongoing insurrection by separatist forces in the eastern Luhansk and Donetsk provinces of Ukraine.
• Late 2021 to early 2022: Russia engages in "military exercises" with a force estimated to exceed 150,000 military personnel involving land-, sea-, and air-based weaponry on the northern, eastern, and southern borders of Ukraine raising fears of an invasion by Russia.
• February 24, 2022: Russia began a large-scale military attack and invasion of Ukraine, with planes and missile launcher attacks on Ukrainian cities, airports, and military infrastructure across much of the country."

Ukraine is in this mess thnx to Europe and America. The moral thing to do would be for NATO to help Ukraine, but since you people have no honor, instead you will coerce Ukraine into giving up their land and resources in exchange for a very fragile peace. Cowards.

Post automatically merged: Saturday at 5:48 PM

This is not about Zelensky, this about Ukranian sovereignty.

This isn't the US's fight, and where the fuck is the EU, doing diddly shit. They talk a good game but they are bottom feeders.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/ukraine-nuclear-weapons-and-security-assurances-glance
"Timeline

• July 16, 1990: Ukraine’s Declaration of Sovereignty
• July 31, 1991: The United States and the Soviet Union sign START
• Dec. 26, 1991: The Soviet Union officially dissolves, delaying entry into force of START
• Dec. 30, 1991: Minsk Agreement on Strategic Forces
  • The Commonwealth of Independent States agrees that strategic forces would be under the joint command of the former Soviet Union states
• May 23, 1992: Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, and the United States sign the Lisbon Protocol
  • The protocol calls for the return of nuclear weapons in three formerly Soviet states to Russia and for all states to be added to the START treaty and join the NPT
• Jan. 14, 1994: Ukraine, Russia, and the United States sign the Trilateral Statement
  • Ukraine commits to full disarmament, including strategic offensive weapons, in exchange for economic support and security assurances from the United States and Russia
• Sept. 4, 1993: Massandra Accords
  • Failed summit between Russian and Ukrainian governments
• Dec. 5, 1994: Russia, Ukraine, United States, and the United Kingdom sign the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances
  • Includes security assurances against the threat or use of force against Ukraine’s territory or political independence
• Dec. 5, 1994: Ukraine submits its instrument of accession to the NPT as a non-nuclear weapon state
  • The five START parties exchange instruments of ratification for START, which enters into force
• June 1, 1996: Ukraine transfers its last nuclear warhead to Russia
• October 30, 2001: Ukraine eliminates its last strategic nuclear weapon delivery vehicle
• Dec. 4, 2009: Joint Statement by Russia and the United States
  • The two countries confirm the security guarantees made in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum
• March 18, 2014: Russia annexes Ukraine's Crimean peninsula and provides supports an ongoing insurrection by separatist forces in the eastern Luhansk and Donetsk provinces of Ukraine.
• Late 2021 to early 2022: Russia engages in "military exercises" with a force estimated to exceed 150,000 military personnel involving land-, sea-, and air-based weaponry on the northern, eastern, and southern borders of Ukraine raising fears of an invasion by Russia.
• February 24, 2022: Russia began a large-scale military attack and invasion of Ukraine, with planes and missile launcher attacks on Ukrainian cities, airports, and military infrastructure across much of the country."

Ukraine is in this mess thnx to Europe and America. The moral thing to do would be for NATO to help Ukraine, but since you people have no honor, instead you will coerce Ukraine into giving up their land and resources in exchange for a very fragile peace. Cowards.

Post automatically merged: Saturday at 5:48 PM

This is not about Zelensky, this about Ukranian sovereignty.

Your timeline is lacking and no-one gives a shit about going on with this war. If you feel this way take a plane and go help them on the frontline.

This isn't the US's fight, and where the fuck is the EU, doing diddly shit. They talk a good game but they are bottom feeders.

Sadly, the EU countries gave almost as much money as the US. Besides it's you guys who started the whole thing.

 

[Ravagerblade]

Your timeline is lacking and no-one gives a shit about going on with this war. If you feel this way take a plane and go help them on the frontline.

Sadly, the EU countries gave almost as much money as the US. Besides it's you guys who started the whole thing.

Fuck the money, it's Soldiers and other Military firepower. You ain't winning shit by just getting money.

 

[NAMELESS]

Your timeline is lacking and no-one gives a shit about going on with this war. If you feel this way take a plane and go help them on the frontline.

Sadly, the EU countries gave almost as much money as the US. Besides it's you guys who started the whole thing.

I see plenty of support for Ukraine online. For some reason, you seem to hold a grudge against them. At the same time you pretend to care about Gaza war while spewing racial slurs against Arabs when nobody is looking. You need a therapist.

Post automatically merged: Saturday at 9:12 PM

This isn't the US's fight, and where the fuck is the EU, doing diddly shit. They talk a good game but they are bottom feeders.

Yeah, whatever, just let Russia bully everyone that isn't a NATO member.

Post automatically merged: Saturday at 9:16 PM

Fuck the money, it's Soldiers and other Military firepower. You ain't winning shit by just getting money.

Sending high tech weapons makes a huge difference. Look up footage of Ukranians blowing up Russians tanks with drones and javellins.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

I see plenty of support for Ukraine online. For some reason, you seem to hold a grudge against them. At the same time you pretend to care about Gaza war while spewing racial slurs against Arabs when nobody is looking. You need a therapist.

I genuinely don't mind them in their country, when they don't mass-migrate here. But even if I disliked them, it doesn't mean you can murder tens of thousands of children.

Fuck the money, it's Soldiers and other Military firepower. You ain't winning shit by just getting money.

I thought the Americans there were volunteers, or not?

 

[NAMELESS]

I genuinely don't mind them in their country, when they don't mass-migrate here. But even if I disliked them, it doesn't mean you could murder tens of thousands of children.

I thought the Americans there were volunteers, or not?

You say that and yet you also say "nobody gives a fuck about Ukraine". I said this before and i will say it again, you guys don't give a fuck about Palestine, it's all virtue signalling. The same things are happening in Ukraine and assholes like you are mocking Ukrainians. Speaking about children:
During the Russo-Ukrainian War,[3] Russia has forcibly transferred almost 20 thousand Ukrainian children to areas under its control, assigned them Russian citizenship, forcibly adopted them into Russian families, and created obstacles for their reunification with their parents and homeland.[7][8] The United Nations has stated that these deportations constitute war crimes.[8][9] The International Criminal Court (ICC) has issued arrest warrants for President of Russia Vladimir Putin[10] (who has explicitly supported the forced adoptions, including by enacting legislation to facilitate them)[1] and Children's Rights Commissioner Maria Lvova-Belova for their alleged involvement.[10] According to international law, including the 1948 Genocide Convention, such acts constitute genocide if done with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a nation or ethnic group.[11][a]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

 

[Mathias]

Your timeline is lacking and no-one gives a shit about going on with this war. If you feel this way take a plane and go help them on the frontline.

Putin cares a lot about Ukraine. I feel like you’re the one who should book a flight for Moscow and enlist among Russian troops.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

You say that and yet you also say "nobody gives a fuck about Ukraine". I said this before and i will say it again, you guys don't give a fuck about Palestine, it's all virtue signalling. The same things are happening in Ukraine and assholes like you are mocking Ukrainians. Speaking about children:
During the Russo-Ukrainian War,[3] Russia has forcibly transferred almost 20 thousand Ukrainian children to areas under its control, assigned them Russian citizenship, forcibly adopted them into Russian families, and created obstacles for their reunification with their parents and homeland.[7][8] The United Nations has stated that these deportations constitute war crimes.[8][9] The International Criminal Court (ICC) has issued arrest warrants for President of Russia Vladimir Putin[10] (who has explicitly supported the forced adoptions, including by enacting legislation to facilitate them)[1] and Children's Rights Commissioner Maria Lvova-Belova for their alleged involvement.[10] According to international law, including the 1948 Genocide Convention, such acts constitute genocide if done with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a nation or ethnic group.[11][a]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

Child abductions happen in every war and are a one standard pillar of ethnic cleansing. Nothing new and definitely not the last time either. It's still funny how people from certain nations suddenly care about it when it's on the news and when it's white children.
Where are the UN and ICC in all those other conflicts? Where is the 24/7 worldwide news coverage?
Ukraine and Gaza are being covered because the ruling countries have skin in the game. Not because they actually care about humanity and human rights.

This isn't the US's fight

The US picked so many fights worldwide and played world police like the police state that it is that it really doesn't have a say in what wars to fight anymore. If y'all want to go back to being the irrelevant society of settler weirdos on the occupies new continent go ahead, pull out ALL armed forces out of every foreign country, close your military bases, cease any and all surveillance operations, stop running billion dollar companies that hoard the personal data of nearly every person alive and while you're at it, also stop engaging in trade, get rid of your nukes and secret ass tests in the desert and advanced military tech and all the other tech really, isolate yourselves on your gigantic island and build a solid 1 km high and 1 km thick wall of steel reinforced concrete on both the Mexican and the Canadian border.
Then and only then do the USA have the right to say xyz is not their fight.

Will you do it? Do the citizens of the FreestCountryInTheWorld™ have the guts? Not kidding but y'all would probably be better of then because right now none of that insane financial wealth is trickling down to the majority of the population. And once the poison.corporations stop producing poison y'all can actually start growing edible non-toxic food.

Good luck with the orange guy for now, maybe y'all wake up one day and make your country a truly great one.

Fuck the money, it's Soldiers and other Military firepower. You ain't winning shit by just getting money.

My dude the times when everyone could build their own weapons from scratch are long over, what kind of world do you think we live it right now? These days every form of self defence requires international alliances and money to be spent.

Putin cares a lot about Ukraine. I feel like you’re the one who should book a flight for Moscow and enlist among Russian troops.

He's already serving his Tsar from in front of the screen, that's modern warfare for ya

 

[NAMELESS]

Putin cares a lot about Ukraine. I feel like you’re the one who should book a flight for Moscow and enlist among Russian troops.

I was about to say that.

Post automatically merged: Saturday at 10:40 PM

Child abductions happen in every war and are a one standard pillar of ethnic cleansing. Nothing new and definitely not the last time either. It's still funny how people from certain nations suddenly care about it when it's on the news and when it's white children.
Where are the UN and ICC in all those other conflicts? Where is the 24/7 worldwide news coverage?
Ukraine and Gaza are being covered because the ruling countries have skin in the game. Not because they actually care about humanity and human rights.





The US picked so many fights worldwide and played world police like the police state that it is that it really doesn't have a say in what wars to fight anymore. If y'all want to go back to being the irrelevant society of settler weirdos on the occupies new continent go ahead, pull out ALL armed forces out of every foreign country, close your military bases, cease any and all surveillance operations, stop running billion dollar companies that hoard the personal data of nearly every person alive and while you're at it, also stop engaging in trade, get rid of your nukes and secret ass tests in the desert and advanced military tech and all the other tech really, isolate yourselves on your gigantic island and build a solid 1 km high and 1 km thick wall of steel reinforced concrete on both the Mexican and the Canadian border.
Then and only then do the USA have the right to say xyz is not their fight.

Will you do it? Do the citizens of the FreestCountryInTheWorld™ have the guts? Not kidding but y'all would probably be better of then because right now none of that insane financial wealth is trickling down to the majority of the population. And once the poison.corporations stop producing poison y'all can actually start growing edible non-toxic food.

Good luck with the orange guy for now, maybe y'all wake up one day and make your country a truly great one.


My dude the times when everyone could build their own weapons from scratch are long over, what kind of world do you think we live it right now? These days every form of self defence requires international alliances and money to be spent.

He's already serving his Tsar from in front of the screen, that's modern warfare for ya

damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn an epic Solis W

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn an epic Solis W

You're not seeing the irony do you🤡

 

[NAMELESS]

You're not seeing the irony do you🤡

Step on me , solis-sama.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

You say that and yet you also say "nobody gives a fuck about Ukraine". I said this before and i will say it again, you guys don't give a fuck about Palestine, it's all virtue signalling. The same things are happening in Ukraine and assholes like you are mocking Ukrainians. Speaking about children:
During the Russo-Ukrainian War,[3] Russia has forcibly transferred almost 20 thousand Ukrainian children to areas under its control, assigned them Russian citizenship, forcibly adopted them into Russian families, and created obstacles for their reunification with their parents and homeland.[7][8] The United Nations has stated that these deportations constitute war crimes.[8][9] The International Criminal Court (ICC) has issued arrest warrants for President of Russia Vladimir Putin[10] (who has explicitly supported the forced adoptions, including by enacting legislation to facilitate them)[1] and Children's Rights Commissioner Maria Lvova-Belova for their alleged involvement.[10] According to international law, including the 1948 Genocide Convention, such acts constitute genocide if done with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a nation or ethnic group.[11][a]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

Whether I give a fuck about Palestine or not, you are the one rooting for the murder of tens of thousands.

Putin cares a lot about Ukraine. I feel like you’re the one who should book a flight for Moscow and enlist among Russian troops.

You are the ones thinking the war MUST continue, so go and put your face where your mouth is, Ukraine needs more soldiers.

 

[Mathias]

Whether I give a fuck about Palestine or not, you are the one rooting for the murder of tens of thousands.

You are the ones thinking the war MUST continue, so go and put your face where your mouth is, Ukraine needs more soldiers.

I don’t remember really being in favour of any war. My stance on Ukraine is that the Ukrainians shouldn’t be coerced into a fake deal that they never agreed to and that could put their sovereignty in jeopardy.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 11:23 AM

Unless you hadn’t noticed it’s a Trump deal. Europeans with Ukrainians included are excluded from negotiations

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

I don’t remember really being in favour of any war. My stance on Ukraine is that the Ukrainians shouldn’t be coerced into a fake deal that they never agreed to and that could put their sovereignty in jeopardy.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 11:23 AM

Unless you hadn’t noticed it’s a Trump deal. Europeans with Ukrainians included are excluded from negotiations

What sovereignity? They have been pushed around by foreign powers since 2014 or perhaps even before.

 

[NAMELESS]

I don’t remember really being in favour of any war. My stance on Ukraine is that the Ukrainians shouldn’t be coerced into a fake deal that they never agreed to and that could put their sovereignty in jeopardy.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 11:23 AM

Unless you hadn’t noticed it’s a Trump deal. Europeans with Ukrainians included are excluded from negotiations

"Let's force a country to give up their lands to an invader cause he want peace". Nobody in their right minds would be in favor of that.

What sovereignity? They have been pushed around by foreign powers since 2014 or perhaps even before.

I don't know what's the deal with you, but you have some nasty opinions.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 1:48 PM

Whether I give a fuck about Palestine or not, you are the one rooting for the murder of tens of thousands.

You are the ones thinking the war MUST continue, so go and put your face where your mouth is, Ukraine needs more soldiers.

Rooting? Are you retarded? Nothing other then Nato or nukes will make Ukraine safe. Trump is not only denying them the means to fight, but to also protect themselves after a possible ceasefire. Russia does not honor it's agreements. You are so stupid, you don't realize Ukraine might get massacred by Russia very soon if everyone sits idle. Russia already displayed the use of a ICBM and did quite a few war crimes in this war. Things CAN escalate for the worse. I suppose you would just sit back and let nazis take over during ww2, cause fighting them back would be rooting for a massacre(your logic).

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

"Let's force a country to give up their lands to an invader cause he want peace". Nobody in their right minds would be in favor of that.

I don't know what's the deal with you, but you have some nasty opinions.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 1:48 PM

Rooting? Are you retarded? Nothing other then Nato or nukes will make Ukraine safe. Trump is not only denying them the means to fight, but to also protect themselves after a possible ceasefire. Russia does not honor it's agreements. You are you so stupid, you don't realize Ukraine might get massacred by Russia very soon if everyone sits idle. Russia already displayed the use of a ICBM and did quite a few war crimes in this war. Things CAN escalate for the worse. I suppose you would just sit back and let nazis take over during ww2, cause fighting them back would be rooting for a massacre(your logic).

It's NATO that didn't honor its agreements in the first place, as they even admitted. But there is no need to discuss any further, the pro-war parties lost the elections in America and Ukraine has basically lost on the field. This is a complete loss, the only ones rooting for war now are the EU jokesters who are totally useless and fucked up their own economies for no reason.

 

[NAMELESS]

It's NATO that didn't honor its agreements in the first place, as they even admitted. But there is no need to discuss any further, the pro-war parties lost the elections in America and Ukraine has basically lost on the field. This is a complete loss, the only ones rooting for war now are the EU jokesters who are totally useless and fucked up their own economies for no reason.

Isn't the US part of NATO? Lost the war? Care to explain why Putin didn't take over the entire thing yet if that is the case, it seems you have some shady motives to support this humiliating peace agreement for Ukraine. If this shit were happening in your nation, you would be speaking a different tune.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

Isn't the US part of NATO? Lost the war? Care to explain why Putin didn't take over the entire thing yet if that is the case, it seems you have some shady motives to support this humiliating peace agreement for Ukraine. If this shit were happening in your nation, you would be speaking a different tune.

The US is part of NATO for now, despite the fact they are talking about leaving it. Taking over all of Ukraine was never the main objective. My nation is already under direct control of foreign agents so whatever lol.

 

[NAMELESS]

The US is part of NATO for now, despite the fact they are talking about leaving it. Taking over all of Ukraine was never the main objective. My nation is already under direct control of foreign agents so whatever lol.

It doesn't matter what Russia's goals were. Ukraine lost 20% of their land. They need it back. Russia is the agressor here, they are not entitled to 1cm of Ukrainian land.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

It doesn't matter what Russia's goals were. Ukraine lost 20% of their land. They need it back. Russia is the agressor here, they are not entitled to 1cm of Ukrainian land.

That's some wishful thinking on your part. Hopefully you can go and help them.