Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1157 Spoilers Discussion

[TheAncientCenturion]

@TheAncientCenturion @MarineHQ @ZenZu

Facts or cap:

After the doujutsu trio, Kisame and Orochimaru are indisputably above the others in power level

I mean it's not really something you can dispute, unless you're a Konan believer.

Kisame's a recurring and main Akatsuki villain who every appearance, is giving the protagonists a challenge and showing off his abilities. Akatsuki was created so the pairs together can take on the Jinchuuriki or at the very least the bijuu, whereas Obito assigns Kisame to go after a perfect jinchuuriki solo. With a caveat that he's got to keep Bee alive, throw the fight and sneak into Kumo to gather intel.

Even in death, Kishi has Yamato extoll Kisame's strength as being worthy of being Itachi's partner.
In death, Kakashi lectures Kakuzu on the new gen catching up to the old.

Orochimaru really needs to descriptions, Kishi took his hands away for a reason. Even early Shippuden Orochimaru is too powerful with ninjutsu.

 

[dirtyLarry]

"Don't worry, WB doesn't look like a simp, he still keeps his coolness and dignity"

Reality: WB looks like the creepiest simp of them all (heart eyes, heart plopping out and his entire fucking body got stiff ...)

 

[soupongo]

Kishimoto is not Oda.

Yeah, but Kaido personally wanted to ally with Hanafuda after fighting him, and even went as far as to raise his kids. Itachi doesn´t even care about Kisame, and they were partnered together by Obito most likely for non strength reasons tbh

 

[AL sama]

I agree. Tac and Rayan should get banned. Unfortunately for us the person that could get it done is fricking @AL sama. Dude's allergic to doing practically anything.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

That gets immediately questioned by Madara himself which makes sense since Kabuto should have zero reference for how strong Madara actually was when alive, and then gets directly contradicted by Hashiramas statement about him regaining his past strength after Rinne Tensei, and nobody knows Madaras own strength better than Hashirama

Then kabuto keeps saying it iirc which tells me it's not entirely empty.

We had like 30 Edo Tensei and not one of them reports being weaker than when they were alive.

 

[SakazOuki]

@EmperorKinyagi still wanna bet on ddp, Khamzat looking huge
https://youtube.com/shorts/CxcJEKEMis8?si=KouCfrqybBd260nR

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

"Don't worry, WB doesn't look like a simp, he still keeps his coolness and dignity"

Reality: WB looks like the creepiest simp of them all (heart eyes, heart plopping out and his entire fucking body got stiff ...)

Honestly, I kinda felt Whitebeard was gay there for quite a while. No women on his crew, surrounded by younger men...

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

@EmperorKinyagi still wanna bet on ddp, Khamzat looking huge
https://youtube.com/shorts/CxcJEKEMis8?si=KouCfrqybBd260nR

Skinny

 

[SakazOuki]

Skinny

Comments saying ddp planted Ebola on Khamzat, this is your only hope

 

[RyoQ]

If you look at the totals of their stats from databook 3. Kishimoto subconsciously ranked the members.

1.Itachi - 35.5
2.Sasori/Orochimaru - 35
4.Kakuzu/Kisame - 32.5
5.Deidara - 32
6.Hidan - 31.5

Now I'm not saying this is end all be all, but there are too many things pointing to Itachi, Sasori, and Orochimaru being a clear notch above the rest. Then it's Kakuzu for me, then Kisame, then Deidara, then Hidan.

This is strictly based off portrayal imo.

that's interesting

It seems I'm not alone in putting Orochimaru near the top. Sasori that high is wild though, above Kakazu and Kisame?

 

[Wuuuke]

Then kabuto keeps saying it iirc which tells me it's not entirely empty.

We had like 30 Edo Tensei and not one of them reports being weaker than when they were alive.

I mean I don't think it was by that large of a margin anyway but also almost all the Edo are in a literal puppet-like state anyway with very little ability to think/act for themselves, which is why Tobirama flexing after making his comment on him being near his original power is impactful

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I mean I don't think it was by that large of a margin anyway but also almost all the Edo are in a literal puppet-like state anyway with very little ability to think/act for themselves, which is why Tobirama flexing after making his comment on him being near his original power is impactful

Yeah but we have an abundance of Edo dialogue and even hostile characters like the Gold & Silver brothers and "helpful" characters like the Edo Kage, with Mangetsu telling'em how to locate his clam. And you'd think from ego, pride or to be useful, they'd mention that weakness.

 

[Wuuuke]

that's interesting

It seems I'm not alone in putting Orochimaru near the top. Sasori that high is wild though, above Kakazu and Kisame?

Sasori is at bare minimum much stronger than the Third Kazekage who is stronger than people like War Arc Gaara and at the most generous interpretations is a Hanzo+ level fighter who is stronger than the Sannin

And he has insane hax, his poison is one shot to almost every fighter in the series and if you don't know his weakness is basically unkillable

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

that's interesting

It seems I'm not alone in putting Orochimaru near the top. Sasori that high is wild though, above Kakazu and Kisame?

Don't put any thoughts into stats, Kishimoto removed this as a category altogether for the 4th Databook because he realized it was sloppy and poorly thought out.

 

[SakazOuki]

that's interesting

It seems I'm not alone in putting Orochimaru near the top. Sasori that high is wild though, above Kakazu and Kisame?

Manus is the goat, coolest From boss

 

[CoC: Color of Clowns]

Yeah, Enels pre-back design could be a good reason for not showing us. His backstory could get dark very quickly now that I think about it. Remember how the Shandians traditionally sacrificed people to their so-called Gods in Nolands' flashback? I hope not, but what if the Birkans had similar practices? Poor Enel man.




yep, also a good point about imu and Enel, both with their complex to stand above everyone else.


Hm, if Mosa gets to be Shiki I would be fine with it, I guess. His Plans from chapter 0 have yet to become true in some shape or form. If Oda shows us the full God Valley flashback and how everyone else got away from there, we might get to see where everyone went afterward.

Speaking of God Valley, from the timeline, Enel destroyed his homeland Birka, 39 years ago. Only 1 year prior to the incident. I know the chances of Oda showing this to us somehow are very slim, but we got so many unexpected things in this flashback.


Maybe just a mention of it, or somebody felt something or was close by when Birka got destroyed, that would be cool already.

...Damn, what if Enel got pushed off of Birka? We had Kaido introduced jumping off a Sky Island to his "Death", at Balloon Terminal: Balloons were big in Enel's Cover Series, because they're what Spacey and the other Automata used to fly up to the Moon.

Wait, Enel was born 39 years ago... he had to have destroyed it more recently, what timeline were you looking at?

Birka is also loosely connected to ELbaph through real life lore, I'm really thinking we'll see Enel in Elbaph sooner or later. But, like I've said, I think we'll leave Elbaph for Pluton, then return after Pluton is Activated.

 

[Bullet]

Would love nothing more than DDP beating on a gassed out Cumshot in rounds 3 and 4 but i think he loses.
Khamzat by sub first round.
Then he catches a cold and doesn't fight for 2 years, beats interim champ Imavov and gets another cold and retires.

 

[Wuuuke]

Yeah but we have an abundance of Edo dialogue and even hostile characters like the Gold & Silver brothers and "helpful" characters like the Edo Kage, with Mangetsu telling'em how to locate his clam. And you'd think from ego, pride or to be useful, they'd mention that weakness.

I wont deny that Kishi could've done a better job of emphasizing my interpretation but really I fail to see any other in-universe explanation for the discrepancies in Ororchimarus Edo Tensei in part 1 vs part 2, and I try to find in-universe explanations when available and I think this one fits rather smoothly with no glaring contradictions

 

[soupongo]

@Shiroyru
I know you either think Weevil is weak or hostage diffed, but shouldn´t the fact that Aramaki took him out put him above Fujitora(who didnt take out any warlords anyway)?

Especially because he´s akainu´s replacement. Or do you think Fujitora is stronger?

 

[Wuuuke]

I wont deny that Kishi could've done a better job of emphasizing my interpretation but really I fail to see any other in-universe explanation for the discrepancies in Ororchimarus Edo Tensei in part 1 vs part 2, and I try to find in-universe explanations when available and I think this one fits rather smoothly with no glaring contradictions

@TheAncientCenturion Even if I steelman the Madara example and say he was stronger than his alive version, we know Kabuto specifically went out of his way to give him special treatment, and given what Tobirama says we can then conclude that every other "normal" Edo reincarnation would not be at full alive strength