Spoiler One Piece Chapter 988 Spoilers Discussion

How strong is Sanji?


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I'm not the type to defend Sanji's performance in the NW but let's keep mind that Doffy used parasite to end the fight quickly, same technique that Jozu (considered to be WB's YC2) was unable to get out. He would have still lost nonetheless but maybe not as bad
+We add the raid suit that is a clear boost
And Sanji still has to use hell memories in the new world
Ill even change it a little bit, if Sanji had an extreme diff with Daifuku or Oven there can be some justification with the powerjump
 
That's not wrong. I can see why people think it's too early for matchups but if Sanji vs King actually happens, this fight will likely be the hardest Sanji ever fought and King being an ancient zoan he's gonna be extremely durable. So if this is means to be Sanji fight this arc I could actually see it start for real
This is why I don't think Sanji is going to have a full fight with King or he will receive help from Marco.

If Sanji had trouble damaging P1 than he will have a harder time hurting King.

Let's be real, King is several levels above P1. We saw how concerned Big Mom and her crew was when King showed up to stop them. They had good reason because he was able to stop him. He knocked that ship out of the air with a simple kick.

On top of his monstrous strength, thanks to being an ancient Zoan, he's also a swordsman. Being in Wano for years I'm sure he has learned ryuo. Combining that with his strength will equal incredible powerful cutting attacks. Finally he has his fire so I don't see Sanji's fire being effective at all against him.
 

MonsterZoro

Spoiler Provider
Ill even change it a little bit, if Sanji had an extreme diff with Daifuku or Oven there can be some justification with the powerjump
Sanji without raid suit was at least Snack level so above veteran. HE could have probably defeated oven and daifuku with high diff.
Now the raid suit brings him to Cracker level because the suit doesn't make you jump that high. We saw sanji Low diff Yonji who used the raid suit and Ichiji got 1 shotted by Yonko commander 1 with the raid suit.


So Sanji is around YC3 level right now he should be able to push king to a mid or high diff fight as he is.

Now its obvious Sanji will have to unlock or show a new ability we haven't seen yet in order to defeat king just like luffy showed G4 boundman to beat doflamingo and snakeman for katakuri.
 

MonsterZoro

Spoiler Provider
This is why I don't think Sanji is going to have a full fight with King or he will receive help from Marco.

If Sanji had trouble damaging P1 than he will have a harder time hurting King.

Let's be real, King is several levels above P1. We saw how concerned Big Mom and her crew was when King showed up to stop them. They had good reason because he was able to stop him. He knocked that ship out of the air with a simple kick.

On top of his monstrous strength, thanks to being an ancient Zoan, he's also a swordsman. Being in Wano for years I'm sure he has learned ryuo. Combining that with his strength will equal incredible powerful cutting attacks. Finally he has his fire so I don't see Sanji's fire being effective at all against him.
Sanji only used based kick against page one
 
ok quick question, Oven-Daifuku is weaker/stronger/or the same level as Page One?
That's a good question, I believe based off his (PO) performance against Luffy, PO seems to be far and away the weakest flying 6, and Oven and Daifuku are shown to have the ability to use CoO and CoA and given their age as well, I give the edge to them. Until i see PO use Haki my opinion will stay the same.

With no extreme diff fights where sanji's strength hasnt had the real opportunity to flourish on top of him now showing the ability to use CoA, where does the major power boost come from?
 
Ill even change it a little bit, if Sanji had an extreme diff with Daifuku or Oven there can be some justification with the powerjump
I don't disagree, it could certaintly have been handled better. But I have the feeling Oda has been nerfing Zoro and Sanji on purpose to surprise readers for the Wano battle. Oda planned the arc from long ago. Zoro still has to use the post-ts version of Ashura and Sanji still has to use hell memories (his strongest known technique, made him able to completely burn a 300 meters tall creature) again since fishman island + he got a new suit that he was just testing against P1 (He didn't use diable jambe once for some reason despite using it again fodders )
I understand why people would be displeased with that sudden jump, but I believe it's because Oda really wanted for the straw hats to look like underdogs.
I could totally be wrong and Sanji is getting demolished and used as a hype tool next chapter lol, we'll see.
 

MonsterZoro

Spoiler Provider
Luffy had to learn FS and fight 11 hrs to barely beat kata and then there is sanji beat king with just a fucking suit lmao...its like sanji powerup RS>>>>all luffy powerups prior onigashima lol....
Luffy showed snakeman which is something we didn't know about untill he was pushed to his limits. Sanji will also show something.

Katakuri was toying with luffy the whole fight even toyed boundman untill stupid plot armor.
 

BangOO🍅

Pepebusi Spammer
That's a good question, I believe based off his (PO) performance against Luffy, PO seems to be far and away the weakest flying 6, and Oven and Daifuku are shown to have the ability to use CoO and CoA and given their age as well, I give the edge to them. Until i see PO use Haki my opinion will stay the same.

With no extreme diff fights where sanji's strength hasnt had the real opportunity to flourish on top of him now showing the ability to use CoA, where does the major power boost come from?
this is how plot armor gonna be take part, Luffy surprise us with gear 4 boundman against Doffy, Zoro surprised us with ashura against Kaku, Sanji surprised us with diable jambe against Jabra.
We still dont see both of Zoro and Sanji flashback training with Mihawk and Ivankov.
 
Sanji without raid suit was at least Snack level so above veteran. HE could have probably defeated oven and daifuku with high diff.
Now the raid suit brings him to Cracker level because the suit doesn't make you jump that high. We saw sanji Low diff Yonji who used the raid suit and Ichiji got 1 shotted by Yonko commander 1 with the raid suit.


So Sanji is around YC3 level right now he should be able to push king to a mid or high diff fight as he is.

Now its obvious Sanji will have to unlock or show a new ability we haven't seen yet in order to defeat king just like luffy showed G4 boundman to beat doflamingo and snakeman for katakuri.
Those are valid points. There's not an extreme diff where he hasnt had the chance to take his skills to the next level.

With the raid suit bring his power level up. How much stronger does the raidsuit make sanji and how strong is Sanji without the raidsuit

Why do you think Oda decided to give Sanji the raidsuit as a powerup instead of a next level type DJ move?
 
Sanji only used based kick against page one
No, that was RS Sanji against P1. We must remember they have incredible recovery capability. That was highlighted when Luffy and Yamato fought them. They knocked out Page one and his sister yet within seconds to minutes they recovered.

That's not even including Awakening. If King has that he's going to be even harder to defeat.

Don't misunderstand, I want Sanji to have a good fight. I would rather see him beat P1 first so we can see what power, ability or skill he has to deal with their durable skin. Then move on to defeat a stronger opponent.
 
I don't disagree, it could certaintly have been handled better. But I have the feeling Oda has been nerfing Zoro and Sanji on purpose to surprise readers for the Wano battle. Oda planned the arc from long ago. Zoro still has to use the post-ts version of Ashura and Sanji still has to use hell memories (his strongest known technique, made him able to completely burn a 300 meters tall creature) again since fishman island + he got a new suit that he was just testing against P1 (He didn't use diable jambe once for some reason despite using it again fodders )
I understand why people would be displeased with that sudden jump, but I believe it's because Oda really wanted for the straw hats to look like underdogs.
I could totally be wrong and Sanji is getting demolished and used as a hype tool next chapter lol, we'll see.
For this one, because Sanji is highlighted in spoilers im going to focus the convo on solely the Sanji portion.

The real question is how much does the raid suit increase Sanji's stats and how strong is Sanji without the raidsuit?
 

MonsterZoro

Spoiler Provider
Those are valid points. There's not an extreme diff where he hasnt had the chance to take his skills to the next level.

With the raid suit bring his power level up. How much stronger does the raidsuit make sanji and how strong is Sanji without the raidsuit

Why do you think Oda decided to give Sanji the raidsuit as a powerup instead of a next level type DJ move?
The raid suit is not the only power up he will show this arc. I agree if the raid suit is all that Sanji has ontop of hsi current strength he won't beat king or queen. But its obvious he will show more.
 

BangOO🍅

Pepebusi Spammer
No, that was RS Sanji against P1. We must remember they have incredible recovery capability. That was highlighted when Luffy and Yamato fought them. They knocked out Page one and his sister yet within seconds to minutes they recovered.

That's not even including Awakening. If King has that he's going to be even harder to defeat.

Don't misunderstand, I want Sanji to have a good fight. I would rather see him beat P1 first so we can see what power, ability or skill he has to deal with their durable skin. Then move on to defeat a stronger opponent.
do you think raid suit increasing AP?
 

MonsterZoro

Spoiler Provider
No, that was RS Sanji against P1. We must remember they have incredible recovery capability. That was highlighted when Luffy and Yamato fought them. They knocked out Page one and his sister yet within seconds to minutes they recovered.

That's not even including Awakening. If King has that he's going to be even harder to defeat.

Don't misunderstand, I want Sanji to have a good fight. I would rather see him beat P1 first so we can see what power, ability or skill he has to deal with their durable skin. Then move on to defeat a stronger opponent.
I don't see how p1 has anything to do with this

yamato couldn't put down ulti
Luffy couldn't put down P1

they both want to go and defeat kaido

Why are you not saying anything about that?
 
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