Chapter Discussion CHAPTER 1159: "THE ISLAND OF DESTINY"
- Thread starter The DevilMaster
- Start date
Nice joke lol.
And Oden is actually a great example yea. Still WB's underling, despite not being fit for the role. It's true irl also, you can't have too many superstars on one basketball team. Same concept. Xebec still had these dudes on a leash as much as one can. They don't even question him, they follow.
I never stated otherwise.
So far this flashback has done nothing to show they aren't followers of Xebec, they're willingly under him because they respect him as top dog. This was damn near spelled out. The only one who actually is being portrayed as a lone wolf is Ochoko, since he's working against Xebec for his own gain. So far not a single pirate is working against Xebec, and not being portrayed as such either. Maybe when God Valley comes around they will break apart for obvious reasons, but no one has stepped out of line yet aside from Ochoko.
So far this flashback has done nothing to show they aren't followers of Xebec, they're willingly under him because they respect him as top dog. This was damn near spelled out. The only one who actually is being portrayed as a lone wolf is Ochoko, since he's working against Xebec for his own gain. So far not a single pirate is working against Xebec, and not being portrayed as such either. Maybe when God Valley comes around they will break apart for obvious reasons, but no one has stepped out of line yet aside from Ochoko.
Nice joke lol.
They love their Captain, and are willing to shoot the shit with him, and call Rocks out when he's nuts.
I think most of the Rocks Pirates really loved Rocks: look at Kaido years later.
Kaido clearly respects Rocks' legacy. I expect Kaido's full flashback to paint Rocks more or less as his father figure.
I think Kaido really hated watching Rocks go down.
Newgate is saying the Rocks Pirates failed Rocks, because they were too hard headed to listen to him/follow him; Newgate was worried Oden would be the same way, like Shiki (I think Newgate knew Shiki was from Wano and disliked Oden because of this at first, since Newgate HATES Shiki)
Kaido is saying Rocks WAS betrayed by people fleeing him.
The Rocks Pirates mostly loved Rocks, but knew he had his flaws, and railed him for them, the same way the Roger/Straw Hat Pirates go after their own Captains.
See this why I dont believe Oda intentionally messed up her character arc except for maybe her showings in Wano being a bit lackluster
When you realize what the BMP is capable of... a self-functioning country and tax, world's best intel agency, commanders with several busted DFs, several skywalkers, 10000s of fleets, tea parties with higher up names, manipulation of bounties, the Invincible Katakuri... this is the carefully crafted work of a pirate entrepreneur playing the long game
Every time we see a younger BM whether it is from Kaido or Xebec / God valley flashback, this is reinforced. Young and prime BM was 200 IQ tier businesswoman pirate a rare breed. Old fat BM is the result of her unable to fulfill her dream, being jealous that Roger reached laugh tale (thru sheer luck and begging). Jealousy turned her ugly and weak, long past her glory days
No WinWin enjoyers are losing in this flashback. We are seeing the Empire woman who was in her absolute prime brimming with gigachad confidence
When you realize what the BMP is capable of... a self-functioning country and tax, world's best intel agency, commanders with several busted DFs, several skywalkers, 10000s of fleets, tea parties with higher up names, manipulation of bounties, the Invincible Katakuri... this is the carefully crafted work of a pirate entrepreneur playing the long game
Every time we see a younger BM whether it is from Kaido or Xebec / God valley flashback, this is reinforced. Young and prime BM was 200 IQ tier businesswoman pirate a rare breed. Old fat BM is the result of her unable to fulfill her dream, being jealous that Roger reached laugh tale (thru sheer luck and begging). Jealousy turned her ugly and weak, long past her glory days
No WinWin enjoyers are losing in this flashback. We are seeing the Empire woman who was in her absolute prime brimming with gigachad confidence
Lol do you think the Straw Hats would ever abandon Luffy? Zoro straight up was about to give his life for Luffy.
Rocks' crew clearly wasn't anywhere near as loyal as the Roger/Whitebeard/Straw Hat Pirates, but, I think a lot of them refuse to run: just the traitorous bastards like John and Shiki.
I don't think Newgate/Kaido/Linlin abandoned Rocks.
Rocks was interesting in that he had some true believers, but would also recruit jerks like Wang Zhi.
Rocks really feels like Luffy + Teach combined, in terms of how he ran his Crew. A lot of loyalty, a lot of bullshit.
On the cover page, Yamato and friends enjoy some tasty apples. Captivating! But, what could the greater significance be? Why would Oda choose to spend time on this? Could the apples represent gaining forbidden knowledge? Such as learning Moria's lineage? Probably not, the apples are probably just because they're in "Ringo". But, I guess they're headed back to the Flower Capital. So, maybe something interesting will be happening there? Maybe the capital will be on fire. Who knows?
Don Marlon is dead! We barely knew ye, cool gangster dude!
And Shakky is KIDNAPPED! Who ever could have seen this coming?! I mean...think everyone saw this coming. But, still!
And...Ochoku/Wang Zhi's clearly the traitor, counting his money. Figures. I guess there's a reason why he "inherited" control of Hachinosu. Man, Wang is such a...I'm sure there's a word for it, but it escapes me at the moment.
Oh, now look who cares. A little late to the party, Rayleigh! Geez, if you had just had the guts to make a move none of this would have happened!
Losing Shakky ground the entire World's economy to a halt. That's what happens when simping is the entire basis of your economy, I guess. Everyone's too depressed about losing their idol to buy merch...or food.
...Even Garling is a gooner! Garling wants to win Shakky in the upcoming God Valley games.
Garling didn't even wait for the Rabbit Hunt to start before he killed this unnamed lady who bore his children. He didn't even care about getting any extra points! Man...that's cold!
...I guess Garling just tossed his babies into a treasure chest and forgot about them? I guess that fits his personality.
Monkey D Dragon is confirmed to have been in the Marines! That makes sense, and people have been predicting it for a while. But, it's good to have it confirmed. It kind of makes sense that God Valley is probably the reason why Dragon decided to start the Revolution in the first place.
Lil' Ginny and Lil' Ivankov! Oh, it's good to see them, again! Along with Lil' Kuma! Oh...memories! I hope nothing terrible happens to them. Oh...wait...
We even get to see "Little News" Morgans! And...he's already the President of the World Economic Journal?! He's only 15 here! He started it himself?! The World didn't have a newspaper before he came along?! AND he already has his Zoan Fruit?! Are we EVER going to get to see this guy's Human form?! Well...there goes my theory that Big News Morgans was actually Rocks in disguise. It was a long shot, but I'll miss that theory.
He mentions he's going to leak the news to Hachinosu even if he gets paid off. So, even back then, he's playing both sides. So, it just makes me wonder...where IS Morgans taking Vivi in the present day, anyway? Is he going to sell her off to the World Government for Imu? Or is he going to bring her to Hachinosu? That would give the Strawhats a excuse to go to Hachinosu. It's hard to get a read on this guy.
Wang be sweating the news that Shakky's alive. Sweaty Wang...gross.
Whitebeard thought the Celestial Dragon's Human Hunts were just a rumor...interesting. So, it's not that well known at this point. I guess Morgans' news-story ends up breaking that little scoop to the rest of the World, too. I guess that's why they stopped for a while.
Even Rayleigh's getting fired up. Good. Be a man and tell the girl that you like her!
Huh...Rocks is willing to sink Harald's ship on sight...but also willing to talk things through with him. So, he's mad...but, still wants to work things out. I...guess that's another point in the "good guy" column?
Rocks' true name is...Davy D Xebec! Rocks...isn't even really Rocks?! I wonder where "Rocks" came from? (*Looks over to the mythical bird, the Roc, aka Balloon from Romance Dawn version 2*) Unless it's just a reference to the two mountains at God Valley?
And Davy Jones' Real name is...Davy D Jones! Is there anyone left in this story who ISN'T a member of the D Clan?! And the name's still respected in the Criminal Underworld...for some reason.
I guess this is pretty solid confirmation that the Will of D is NOT "Davy", like some people thought. It's something else. Well, it's good to have one possibility eliminated. I honestly thought that would kind of be a "boring" answer, anyway.
And...Rocks told Lil' Blackbeard to "Count on the Davy Clan". I'm curious about the wording in the original Japanese, that feels like there could be a hidden meaning there. And his hometown that he sent them to is...God Valley. Okay, well. Lil' Blackbeard (Blackfuzz?) is on God Valley. Okay. Interesting information. I guess that means...Kuma probably saved Blackbeard's life on God Valley. Huh. I don't know how to feel about that.
We also get a VERY small glimpse of Blackbeard's mom. And...she looks like a hottie! Standard Oda woman proportions. So, Blackbeard doesn't take after his mother's side. I don't know why Blackbeard looks like such a slob.
So..wait...if God Valley is the home of the Davy Clan...does that mean Shanks is part Davy Clan, too? Is that what makes him "The Child of Destiny"? Because he's part Celestial Dragon and part Davy Clan? The combination of two ancient enemies?
And Rocks and Harald fight it out before he even got to God Valley. Oof....that was a mistake. If Rocks wasn't already tired from this fight, I wonder if things would have gone differently on God Valley.
No surprise, but every single Celestial Dragon wants Shakky. Pretty sure I even see some women in there. Shakky transcends class, race, gender, and creed. All people are united in their MIGHTY NEED for this woman.
Gunko Manmayer was ALSO on God Valley. It does kind of seem unfair to have "Imu's assistant" help you out in a competition. But, I suppose there's no rules against it?
Apparently, members of the Davy Clan are so rare they haven't been seen in 800 years. So...not since the Void Century. Interesting. That does kind of lend credence to the idea that Joyboy could be Davy D Jones.
Well...I guess we're probably getting more God Valley next! It'd be pretty anticlimactic if Oda cut away here....RIGHT?! Surely he wouldn't be so cruel as to do that...RIGHT?!
Don Marlon is dead! We barely knew ye, cool gangster dude!
And Shakky is KIDNAPPED! Who ever could have seen this coming?! I mean...think everyone saw this coming. But, still!
And...Ochoku/Wang Zhi's clearly the traitor, counting his money. Figures. I guess there's a reason why he "inherited" control of Hachinosu. Man, Wang is such a...I'm sure there's a word for it, but it escapes me at the moment.
Oh, now look who cares. A little late to the party, Rayleigh! Geez, if you had just had the guts to make a move none of this would have happened!
Losing Shakky ground the entire World's economy to a halt. That's what happens when simping is the entire basis of your economy, I guess. Everyone's too depressed about losing their idol to buy merch...or food.
...Even Garling is a gooner! Garling wants to win Shakky in the upcoming God Valley games.
Garling didn't even wait for the Rabbit Hunt to start before he killed this unnamed lady who bore his children. He didn't even care about getting any extra points! Man...that's cold!
...I guess Garling just tossed his babies into a treasure chest and forgot about them? I guess that fits his personality.
Monkey D Dragon is confirmed to have been in the Marines! That makes sense, and people have been predicting it for a while. But, it's good to have it confirmed. It kind of makes sense that God Valley is probably the reason why Dragon decided to start the Revolution in the first place.
Lil' Ginny and Lil' Ivankov! Oh, it's good to see them, again! Along with Lil' Kuma! Oh...memories! I hope nothing terrible happens to them. Oh...wait...
We even get to see "Little News" Morgans! And...he's already the President of the World Economic Journal?! He's only 15 here! He started it himself?! The World didn't have a newspaper before he came along?! AND he already has his Zoan Fruit?! Are we EVER going to get to see this guy's Human form?! Well...there goes my theory that Big News Morgans was actually Rocks in disguise. It was a long shot, but I'll miss that theory.
He mentions he's going to leak the news to Hachinosu even if he gets paid off. So, even back then, he's playing both sides. So, it just makes me wonder...where IS Morgans taking Vivi in the present day, anyway? Is he going to sell her off to the World Government for Imu? Or is he going to bring her to Hachinosu? That would give the Strawhats a excuse to go to Hachinosu. It's hard to get a read on this guy.
Wang be sweating the news that Shakky's alive. Sweaty Wang...gross.
Whitebeard thought the Celestial Dragon's Human Hunts were just a rumor...interesting. So, it's not that well known at this point. I guess Morgans' news-story ends up breaking that little scoop to the rest of the World, too. I guess that's why they stopped for a while.
Even Rayleigh's getting fired up. Good. Be a man and tell the girl that you like her!
Huh...Rocks is willing to sink Harald's ship on sight...but also willing to talk things through with him. So, he's mad...but, still wants to work things out. I...guess that's another point in the "good guy" column?
Rocks' true name is...Davy D Xebec! Rocks...isn't even really Rocks?! I wonder where "Rocks" came from? (*Looks over to the mythical bird, the Roc, aka Balloon from Romance Dawn version 2*) Unless it's just a reference to the two mountains at God Valley?
And Davy Jones' Real name is...Davy D Jones! Is there anyone left in this story who ISN'T a member of the D Clan?! And the name's still respected in the Criminal Underworld...for some reason.
I guess this is pretty solid confirmation that the Will of D is NOT "Davy", like some people thought. It's something else. Well, it's good to have one possibility eliminated. I honestly thought that would kind of be a "boring" answer, anyway.
And...Rocks told Lil' Blackbeard to "Count on the Davy Clan". I'm curious about the wording in the original Japanese, that feels like there could be a hidden meaning there. And his hometown that he sent them to is...God Valley. Okay, well. Lil' Blackbeard (Blackfuzz?) is on God Valley. Okay. Interesting information. I guess that means...Kuma probably saved Blackbeard's life on God Valley. Huh. I don't know how to feel about that.
We also get a VERY small glimpse of Blackbeard's mom. And...she looks like a hottie! Standard Oda woman proportions. So, Blackbeard doesn't take after his mother's side. I don't know why Blackbeard looks like such a slob.
So..wait...if God Valley is the home of the Davy Clan...does that mean Shanks is part Davy Clan, too? Is that what makes him "The Child of Destiny"? Because he's part Celestial Dragon and part Davy Clan? The combination of two ancient enemies?
And Rocks and Harald fight it out before he even got to God Valley. Oof....that was a mistake. If Rocks wasn't already tired from this fight, I wonder if things would have gone differently on God Valley.
No surprise, but every single Celestial Dragon wants Shakky. Pretty sure I even see some women in there. Shakky transcends class, race, gender, and creed. All people are united in their MIGHTY NEED for this woman.
Gunko Manmayer was ALSO on God Valley. It does kind of seem unfair to have "Imu's assistant" help you out in a competition. But, I suppose there's no rules against it?
Apparently, members of the Davy Clan are so rare they haven't been seen in 800 years. So...not since the Void Century. Interesting. That does kind of lend credence to the idea that Joyboy could be Davy D Jones.
Well...I guess we're probably getting more God Valley next! It'd be pretty anticlimactic if Oda cut away here....RIGHT?! Surely he wouldn't be so cruel as to do that...RIGHT?!
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Captain and top 3 of Rocks crew again and again. Oda couldn't be making this any clearer these were the heavy hitters of the Rocks crew
@MonsterKaido @Hanzo hattori @The DevilMaster 
Captain and top 3 of Rocks crew again and again. Oda couldn't be making this any clearer these were the heavy hitters of the Rocks crew
@MonsterKaido @Hanzo hattori @The DevilMaster
Either Davy Jones or Imu's Domi Reversi'd Rocks.
Since Haki is the biggest thing in the series, I think it's tied to Haki: Imu didn't use Domi Reversi on Brogy right away. Instead, Imu blew off Brogy's hand.
Why?
Because, Haki is Willpower, and when Brogy was furious with Imu, Brogy could resist. After Brogy's hand was blown off, and the rest of the Giants saw him turn into a murderous demon? Bam, everyone gets Domi Reversi'd.
I figured Rocks couldn't get Domi Reversi'd here, because of his gigantic CoC Haki.
But, if Rocks found his dead wife... and saw the person (I think it's Garling) who killed her... Rocks very well could have been Domi Reversi'd. If Domi Reversi works on people who have lost their Will, Rocks seeing his dead wife and wanting to destroy the person who killed her is a very legit reason he could be Domi Reversi'd.
Either Davy Jones or Imu possessed Rocks after his wife died.
This fits well thematically with Harald: like Rocks, Harald was killed after Imu Domi Reversi'd them. Elbaph hates Ida, but loves Harald: if Ida died, not many people would honor her death, sadly, the way they do Harald.
I think Harald and Rocks both got Domi Reversi'd for the same reason: they watched their wife die. I'd imagine Harald keeps a Den Den Mushi on tap to contact Ida. This is what I think went down:
-The WG believes (correctly) that Harald jobbed to Rocks. We saw Sommers talking about how everything was Harald's fault. I think Sommers' child died on God Valley: Harald was supposed to kill Rocks, and, if he did, God Valley doesn't become what it did. I believe "God Valley" refers to Uranus, and also the Celestial Dragons who died there, including the un-named Gorosei. Sommers is PISSED here: I 100% believe he lost a child on God Valley, and that's why he sadistically uses his Fruit to trick kids into murdering their parents. To make children suffer in the name of his dead child. Rocks warned Harald the WG just wanted to use them as military slaves, and Sommers just admits that here.
-Shamrock is said to have known Harald, and Sommers meant Shamrock visiting Harald's grave. I believe Harald convinced Shamrock that other races can also be strong/noble. Garling brought Shamrock to Elbaph at some point, when negotiating with Harald after God Valley (Harald still wanted to join the WG, but change it from within, like the Marines do). I believe the Abyss can travel where you've been before, like Kuma's Fruit: Shamrock could travel to Elbaph's Throne Room, because he visited King Harald alongside Garling. This also means Garling can probably teleport there, and could show up soon. Also likely Shamrock, Shanks, and Garling all hung out at the Reverie Shanks mentions meeting Harald at.
-Garling/Sommers come to despise Harald for pretending to want to join the WG, then betraying them by helping Rocks. I also believe Harald went to God Valley (possibly with Loki sneaking aboard) to save the people of God Valley/Slaves. Garling and Sommers plot to take down Harald with Imu.
-Sommers murders Ida (likes killing parents), and Harald is made to listen to her final moments. Destroyed by grief, Harald, like Rocks, and the Giant Warrior Pirates, gets Domi Reversi'd by Imu
-Jarul holds Harald down while Loki stabs Harald, because he's too strong to be put down normally.
-Harald shrinks down back to normal as he dies, and Jarul gets memory loss from Loki impaling the sword into his head when he stabbed Harald. Harald shrinking knocks the sword out of him.
-Shanks and Gyaban come in to see Harald dead with Loki covered in blood surrounded by the rest of the dead Giants
Ida was murdered by Garling/Sommers, to break Harald's Will, and allow Imu to Domi Reversi Harald. It's possible Harald got a Mark of the Abyss, but, since I think he broke his horns off after seeing Domi Reversi on God Valley with Gunko, I believe Harald was more wary of the WG post God Valley.
If Imu breaks your Will entirely, Domi Reversi goes through.
Rocks got Domi Reversi'd over his wife dying, and was killed by his friend, Harald.
Harald got Domi Reversi'd over his wife dying, and was killed by his son, Loki.
Oda popped off like the finest champagne this arc, my word.
Since Haki is the biggest thing in the series, I think it's tied to Haki: Imu didn't use Domi Reversi on Brogy right away. Instead, Imu blew off Brogy's hand.
Why?
Because, Haki is Willpower, and when Brogy was furious with Imu, Brogy could resist. After Brogy's hand was blown off, and the rest of the Giants saw him turn into a murderous demon? Bam, everyone gets Domi Reversi'd.
I figured Rocks couldn't get Domi Reversi'd here, because of his gigantic CoC Haki.
But, if Rocks found his dead wife... and saw the person (I think it's Garling) who killed her... Rocks very well could have been Domi Reversi'd. If Domi Reversi works on people who have lost their Will, Rocks seeing his dead wife and wanting to destroy the person who killed her is a very legit reason he could be Domi Reversi'd.
Either Davy Jones or Imu possessed Rocks after his wife died.
This fits well thematically with Harald: like Rocks, Harald was killed after Imu Domi Reversi'd them. Elbaph hates Ida, but loves Harald: if Ida died, not many people would honor her death, sadly, the way they do Harald.
I think Harald and Rocks both got Domi Reversi'd for the same reason: they watched their wife die. I'd imagine Harald keeps a Den Den Mushi on tap to contact Ida. This is what I think went down:
-The WG believes (correctly) that Harald jobbed to Rocks. We saw Sommers talking about how everything was Harald's fault. I think Sommers' child died on God Valley: Harald was supposed to kill Rocks, and, if he did, God Valley doesn't become what it did. I believe "God Valley" refers to Uranus, and also the Celestial Dragons who died there, including the un-named Gorosei. Sommers is PISSED here: I 100% believe he lost a child on God Valley, and that's why he sadistically uses his Fruit to trick kids into murdering their parents. To make children suffer in the name of his dead child. Rocks warned Harald the WG just wanted to use them as military slaves, and Sommers just admits that here.
-Shamrock is said to have known Harald, and Sommers meant Shamrock visiting Harald's grave. I believe Harald convinced Shamrock that other races can also be strong/noble. Garling brought Shamrock to Elbaph at some point, when negotiating with Harald after God Valley (Harald still wanted to join the WG, but change it from within, like the Marines do). I believe the Abyss can travel where you've been before, like Kuma's Fruit: Shamrock could travel to Elbaph's Throne Room, because he visited King Harald alongside Garling. This also means Garling can probably teleport there, and could show up soon. Also likely Shamrock, Shanks, and Garling all hung out at the Reverie Shanks mentions meeting Harald at.
-Garling/Sommers come to despise Harald for pretending to want to join the WG, then betraying them by helping Rocks. I also believe Harald went to God Valley (possibly with Loki sneaking aboard) to save the people of God Valley/Slaves. Garling and Sommers plot to take down Harald with Imu.
-Sommers murders Ida (likes killing parents), and Harald is made to listen to her final moments. Destroyed by grief, Harald, like Rocks, and the Giant Warrior Pirates, gets Domi Reversi'd by Imu
-Jarul holds Harald down while Loki stabs Harald, because he's too strong to be put down normally.
-Harald shrinks down back to normal as he dies, and Jarul gets memory loss from Loki impaling the sword into his head when he stabbed Harald. Harald shrinking knocks the sword out of him.
-Shanks and Gyaban come in to see Harald dead with Loki covered in blood surrounded by the rest of the dead Giants
Ida was murdered by Garling/Sommers, to break Harald's Will, and allow Imu to Domi Reversi Harald. It's possible Harald got a Mark of the Abyss, but, since I think he broke his horns off after seeing Domi Reversi on God Valley with Gunko, I believe Harald was more wary of the WG post God Valley.
If Imu breaks your Will entirely, Domi Reversi goes through.
Rocks got Domi Reversi'd over his wife dying, and was killed by his friend, Harald.
Harald got Domi Reversi'd over his wife dying, and was killed by his son, Loki.
Oda popped off like the finest champagne this arc, my word.
Captain and top 3 of Rocks crew again and again. Oda couldn't be making this any clearer these were the heavy hitters of the Rocks crew
@MonsterKaido @Hanzo hattori @The DevilMaster
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Everybody respects Xebec’s power. Kaido’s line about betrayal is bound to come into play though. They’ll see Xebec on the brink of defeat and abandon him, a tragic downfall for someone of his stature. If his top five had stayed loyal, I don’t think he’d lose.
Whitebeard should be the most loyal. Their bond feels real; he’s sailed with Xebec for over a decade, and Xebec is an honorable man. Maybe the moment that a Domi Reversified Xebec kills innocents is what drives Whitebeard away. Still, I think Whitebeard should sense that something was amiss.
Whitebeard should be the most loyal. Their bond feels real; he’s sailed with Xebec for over a decade, and Xebec is an honorable man. Maybe the moment that a Domi Reversified Xebec kills innocents is what drives Whitebeard away. Still, I think Whitebeard should sense that something was amiss.